It took 6 managers after Busby.. Just saying..
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Look at the PL table. These teams are consistently better than us this season. I know its rough and difficult for some to comprehend, but its reality.
Reminder. These are the same players that could not score goals for ETH. Doesn't matter if we even manage to stop the stupid errors in defense, we've got an utterly abysmal offensive squad. Worst in decades, this isn't an exaggeration, these players would struggle to get into the Top 10 teams let alone the Top 6.
Unfortunately, we have to suck it up until we can get to a transfer window and then hope we have money to invest into some emergency signings.
Unfortunately, we have to suck it up until we can get to a transfer window and then hope we have money to invest into some emergency signings.
Isn't he onto his 7th manager in 5 years with Nice in France?
Bluster talk to the media about a new stadium when club are struggling to sell out games (his 66 sterling charge doesn't help along with the team form) I fear he'll only add to the incompetence when the club needed someone to clean up the decade of a mess by the Glazers.
Amorim still has an awful lot to prove to himself and the football World, he’s 39 won a few trophies in Portugal but did not win. a Europa Cup or a CL with sporting Lisbon like Jose did with Porto.
I think so far he’s been a mixed bunch as our new manager very much like his results.
Positives :
Great communication skills
Steadfast in his philosophy 3421 formation
Wants the team to show more desire and work rate
Can make great substitutions and change in game results uses all his subs
Won his first Derby by being brave
Negatives :
We have 6 striking options, clearly Antony and Zirkzee are our worst options, yet he’s alienated our two top goal scorers when we have no goals in this squad.
He’s lost two of his first three home EPL games and scored 6 goals but conceeded 6 goals
He’s not sure of his best team after 9 games, he’s tinkering with the team far too much
He’s putting his faith in players like Mason Mount who will let him down due to his body
With such inept attacking selection to pick, especially after dropping the two with the most goals so far this season, why not promote two attackers from the U18/21 squad.
Continues to pay Dalot/Malacia at wing back, neither are good enough, Amad is better from the right wing back, promote from the youth, even Harry Amass would do better right now or Mantato.
He’s not getting a grip of the PL intensity, 1 point from Ipswich, Forrest and Bournemouth when two of those games are at Okd Trafford is not acceptable 4 would be bordering club meltdown?
Conclusion
Ruben Amorim is a very competent young coach that will find the EPL his true coaching baptism, he’s got all the right ideas and words however penultimately he will be judged by results on the field, and with a trigger Hungry SJR, if he only has another 14 to 15 points from 15 PL he would have overseen games and United are 13th-15th with 30 points from 26 PL games, he’ll be under serious pressure!
No man United coach can oversee 1 point per game!
So just like Ruben said he needs to win games to win time, so far he has coached 4 wins from 9 Games overall but 7 points in the PL from 6 Games with very modest opposition and it really is not that great a start!
Ruben needs 2/3 players in January and then in summer he will need a huge clear out and at least another 4/5 players to implement his 3421 system. I said when we recruited him, he’s technically a great young coach, but he’s unproven in the PL, I hope we back him and he learns quickly. I really do because right now I’m more worried about SJR hot headed methods and his tinkering than I am any player or coach!
I think so far he’s been a mixed bunch as our new manager very much like his results.
Positives :
Great communication skills
Steadfast in his philosophy 3421 formation
Wants the team to show more desire and work rate
Can make great substitutions and change in game results uses all his subs
Won his first Derby by being brave
Negatives :
We have 6 striking options, clearly Antony and Zirkzee are our worst options, yet he’s alienated our two top goal scorers when we have no goals in this squad.
He’s lost two of his first three home EPL games and scored 6 goals but conceeded 6 goals
He’s not sure of his best team after 9 games, he’s tinkering with the team far too much
He’s putting his faith in players like Mason Mount who will let him down due to his body
With such inept attacking selection to pick, especially after dropping the two with the most goals so far this season, why not promote two attackers from the U18/21 squad.
Continues to pay Dalot/Malacia at wing back, neither are good enough, Amad is better from the right wing back, promote from the youth, even Harry Amass would do better right now or Mantato.
He’s not getting a grip of the PL intensity, 1 point from Ipswich, Forrest and Bournemouth when two of those games are at Okd Trafford is not acceptable 4 would be bordering club meltdown?
Conclusion
Ruben Amorim is a very competent young coach that will find the EPL his true coaching baptism, he’s got all the right ideas and words however penultimately he will be judged by results on the field, and with a trigger Hungry SJR, if he only has another 14 to 15 points from 15 PL he would have overseen games and United are 13th-15th with 30 points from 26 PL games, he’ll be under serious pressure!
No man United coach can oversee 1 point per game!
So just like Ruben said he needs to win games to win time, so far he has coached 4 wins from 9 Games overall but 7 points in the PL from 6 Games with very modest opposition and it really is not that great a start!
Ruben needs 2/3 players in January and then in summer he will need a huge clear out and at least another 4/5 players to implement his 3421 system. I said when we recruited him, he’s technically a great young coach, but he’s unproven in the PL, I hope we back him and he learns quickly. I really do because right now I’m more worried about SJR hot headed methods and his tinkering than I am any player or coach!
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We are kidding ourselves if a transfer window will resolve this malaise at the club which comes from the very top and always has done
His stubborn 'Philosophy' approach is akin to Ange Postacoglu. Five at the back plus a cdm is too negative. And those defenders are just not comfortable on the ball. Malacia had a mare.
He hasn’t faced “very modest opposition” in all of those 9 games. And when he has faced genuinely modest opposition his team has either won or drawn (the draw being his first game in charge). The teams we’ve lost to have been amongst the best in the league this season (currently sitting 3rd, 4th and 5th in the table). And we are a team that is clearly a level below the best in the league this season. That’s obviously not ideal and it’s made his job incredibly hard but it is what it is. Let’s not pretend he’s steering us to losses against crap teams.
EDIT: Spurs in Carabao cup might be one exception but they’re a weird as feck team. Never know what version of Spurs you’re up against.
Completely. Can anyone name an offensive player (winger, CF, 10) who has had a run of 5 games providing 7 out of 10 performances over the past two years?
There isn't one. Anthony and Sancho were curses. Garnacho is still learning and may come good but is a pure moments player. The hope the club has bet on is that Rashford will play himself into form.
Said this after the Spurs game but I think it's a point worth reiterating because it's something Amorim needs to figure out very quickly with this set of players.
It's something we all know happens. If they concede goals from corners one game, they'll be awful at defending corners the next. If they miss chances one game, they'll miss them the next. If they throw away a 2 goal lead it becomes a theme for months on end, etc. If they lose one game, it will cause them to play far worse in the next. They absorb any negative energy like a sponge and then it takes ages to squeeze back out.
I'm surprised more people didnt see this result coming after the game in the week. There is no mental or emotional strength in this set of players at all, which is why the next game always has to be the most important one and when you get any kind of positive result you have to go all out to sieze on it.
Every time we lose its potentially abject displays until the next time we fluke a result or play an absolutely awful opponent, and if the next one of those happens to be 5-6 games away the players can easily give up on the tactics or have started finding excuses by then.
The whole statement dropping Rashford was meant to send to the rest of the players is gone now. Amorim has to treat everything as equally important with these players and be equally ruthless in all aspects. Otherwise as he has said himself nothing is going to change. It'll juat be the same cycle in a different formation.
What is frustrating is that pragmatism has completely gone out of the window. This season was completely salvageable (eg Europa/CL qualification & decent cup runs) yet we seem content to let Amorim write it off completely.
I don't really get why he's obsessed with the 3-4-3. It's not like he's played it for 10+ years in different countries and had success etc. I can't remember a manager staking his entire reputation on a formation.
There's such a huge job on to get this squad to fit the formation. We don't have any natural wing backs. And maybe only Amad is a natural inside 10. Taking a team struggling to score goals and then playing a formation which doesn't suit our attacking players and typically plays with fewer attackers is asking for a struggle.
And the whole Rashford situation is odd. To be honest it reeks particularly of Ineos looking at the books and wanting some PSR relief and wages off the book. But unless if he's actually gone full Sancho / toxic, why not wait until the summer to kick him out properly. That is really shooting ourselves in the foot as despite his lack of form, he's still infinitely more threatening than Zirkzee and Antony. And now we are forced to play Amad as a #10, whereas we benefitted more from having a threat at WB.
I don't really get why he's obsessed with the 3-4-3. It's not like he's played it for 10+ years in different countries and had success etc. I can't remember a manager staking his entire reputation on a formation.
There's such a huge job on to get this squad to fit the formation. We don't have any natural wing backs. And maybe only Amad is a natural inside 10. Taking a team struggling to score goals and then playing a formation which doesn't suit our attacking players and typically plays with fewer attackers is asking for a struggle.
And the whole Rashford situation is odd. To be honest it reeks particularly of Ineos looking at the books and wanting some PSR relief and wages off the book. But unless if he's actually gone full Sancho / toxic, why not wait until the summer to kick him out properly. That is really shooting ourselves in the foot as despite his lack of form, he's still infinitely more threatening than Zirkzee and Antony. And now we are forced to play Amad as a #10, whereas we benefitted more from having a threat at WB.
This thread is hilarious
I like the negative energy sponge analogy. Sums up the collective mental frailty of this bunch of sappy wasters.
How else do you prefer Amorin teach the players his system? Training and matches are the way for players to learn.
I don't what you expect here. This squad isn't great thanks to poor purchases for a decade. The squad isn't in great physical shape, thanks to the previous manager. You want him to start playing guys 3 times every 8 days? What will happen? There will be more injuries and overall play will suffer from fatigue. He needs to rotate (for now.) He needs to figure out which players have got it in them, and which players who don't and can be offloaded in the summer.
Amorin is pulling a Klopp. Klopp came in October I think, so he too didn't get the benefit of a preseason. Klopp finished on 60 points, when they finished on 62 the year prior. Klopp spent the season coaching the players in his system and it paid off the following year when they finished 4th. It took until his 4th year!! to have the team humming, but fortunately City was still a bit better than them that year.
Klopp is world class manager, and it took him until his 4th year to turn them into title contenders. Took SAF 7 years to win a title. IDK what fans want. Some want to be delusional thinking that it should be an instant quick fix. It's not. Right now, it's all about the players learning the system, playing better and the manager figuring out who will stay and who will go in the offseason.
If you can't stomach the pain that the rest of the season will bring-- do something else with your life. There are going to be some good wins, and some bad losses. Its not going to be easy. Pep took over a team that won the title twice and were runners up twice in the 5 years before he arrived. He inherited a really good squad that included Aguero, DeBruyne, Silva, Kompany, Toure, Sterling, FErnandinho and more. Much more quality than what Amorin, Klopp or SAF had to work with when they took over.
The objective for the rest of the season is to try and win. But for players to learn the system, the manager to learn the players, and then have a successful offseason of buying and selling players to give Amorin a shot at 4th place next season.
I like the rotation right now if I'm a player. The manager is giving every player a chance, they either take that chance and perform well or they don't. Players can't be upset if they given the opportunity and failed. (Well grown up, mature players won't be upset.) Previous managers stuck by players for too long, and didn't give others a chance.
The club is paying the price for bad purchases-- it's going to take 2 more summer transfers of good signings while offloading poor signings at the same time. The club can't just spend 400mm to try and fix the team in 1 offseason. It's going to take time.
Exactly
This is absolutely the reality. It's blunt, to the point, but that's exactly what it is. The whole club need a reality check. We can't just turn up to games (home or away) and expect to win just because it says that we're Manchester United on our shirts. We're operating in a bubble whilst the rest of football has moved on around us. Our players think just because they get into the first 11, that they've somehow made it. Many haven't really achieved anything of note yet. For what they consistently deliver on the pitch, many are overpaid and too often underdeliver.
We have to earn our place at the top of the table if that's where we think we belong. If the players aren't up to that or don't want to work for that, then they need to be moved out. I have no problem with Amorim's formation or his preference to rotate his squad. In fact, I welcome that. What's the point of having players there if we aren't going to use them? I don't want players to come and get paid a fortune just to sit on the bench. Everyone has to contribute.
He's got a huge job on his hand. He's at a deficit for so many reasons. He's come in at an awkward time of the season where it's already started, he's come in between transfer windows, he's come in at a time where we are challenged by FFP, he's come in when the results have been poor, and he's come in with a really underwhelming squad with lots of square pegs in round holes. I'm not going to get on his back for any of that. He's not the problem.
He doesn’t really have a choice, he’s come here mid-season and has to assess the entire squad over the course of remaining games in order to have them better prepared for next season with system at least partly implemented. Everyone should understand that results are not going to be that important this year.
Bmouth are honestly probably the worst team for us - Iraola’s entire setup is based on outrunning and outworking whoever they play and they happily just counter/regroup/counter/regroup for 90mins. We’re just not good enough on the ball to manage a team like that where you need much more of an LVG approach to drain them, plus mentally we have too many players who shrink as the pressure ramps up.
We’re going to spend 200m buying players for 343 only for Amorim to be sacked in 2 years and the next manager wanting to play a different formation
Good post.
If we were after pragmatism then we should have hired a different coach that would have got us into CL/EL this year, just so we can get knocked out by any half decent team we come across. Rinse and repeat. That cycle needed to be broken.
Pretty much a good summary of the way it is.
This season is gone anyway.
Feck the current crop of players, train them to the system and if they can't adapt send them packing.
Competing for the title in 2028 sounds too early to me.
Rotation with these players is a bit like changing the colour of the glitter you roll the turd in
Amorim really needs to look into the U21 and see if 1-2 of the boys have what it takes to promote to the XI. I mean is there nobody who can play LWB? Malacia had 1 year of no football, does he warrant a place in XI? Zirkzee should never start a EPL game, I would play Hoijund unless he is injured. This season is over when we renewed ETH, Amorim's hiring gave us some hope but this hope totally extinguish with back to back home defeats. I don't care if we finish 6 or 17. I want to see another 6-10 leaves this club with new players coming in. Rashford, Eriksen, Casemiro, Malacia, Antony, Lindeloft, Mount, Zirkzee, Garnacho (good money), Mainoo (monster money), Bruno (good money), Onana (decent money), backup keeper, Dalot. I think we can do with better players. Some of you might think I am crazy on why Mainoo and Garnacho but I think the hype is over for both, they have not improved as far as I am concern. If big money offer comes in, i think we need to consider as their transfers can to use to buy better players at a lower fees.
Just to add to the handful of non hysterical posts. We’ve lost three league fixtures. Against teams currently sitting in 3rd, 4th and 5th place. When we’ve played weaker teams we’ve either won or drew (his very first game in charge) Obviously it would be nice to have more points but the defeats aren’t exactly unexpected based on the league positions of the teams involved. The win against Everton looks better with every game they played since and a derby win is always a good result, even if City’s form is trash.
It’s just shit luck really. Amorim got one straightforward game, his very first one in charge. Since then every single fixture (apart from cup games) has been awkward as feck. And when you’re trying to get momentum and confidence in a squad he’s just met that’s about as bad a hand as he could have been dealt.
It’s just shit luck really. Amorim got one straightforward game, his very first one in charge. Since then every single fixture (apart from cup games) has been awkward as feck. And when you’re trying to get momentum and confidence in a squad he’s just met that’s about as bad a hand as he could have been dealt.
His ex sporting team are clearly struggling without him. Which should tell us all it’s our squad. Not the manager. He’s a very good coach and intelligent. Let’s back him… he even admitted they’ll be some bumps along the way.
I highly doubt we'll have £200m to spend any time soon.
The formation isn't the problem, terrible recruitment is.
I mean the ETH example are extreme. We were getting taken apart so that is not normal. Possession doesn’t necessarily mean control though, it’s where we can restrict the opposition in attacks but also be attacking going forward, I would call that control and I’m not convinced as others we have been doing that for games other than periods here and there.
Really tough job for him. The team he’s inherited is more talented than what they’re showing on the pitch but they’re mentally shot. He’s coaching them team in a way for them to get results with little training time but they can’t take advantage of it. The Forest game was the biggest signal to me that this unit are kind of beyond coaching, they had 72% possession and still conceded 3 goals with ease. There’s this anxiety that always seems to be bubbling under the surface when we play and it seems especially bad when we play at home. I remember seeing it quite starkly when we played Wolves at home on the opening day last season and I felt I saw the team shrink in real time. He’s also having to rotate heavily to try and put this physically deficient squad in a position to compete at an acceptable level every 3-4 days. I cannot believe how far we’ve drifted from what a United team should be in terms of work rate, physicality and ball carrying
I don’t think it changes without a huge upheaval of playing staff and complete change in how the club operates. The way we interact with the media, the way we interact and treat fans, the way we are treating our staff. Everything just feels massively off. Few, if any, other clubs in this league have to operate in such a toxic environment. It’s draining to watch, I can’t imagine how bad it is to be a part of it. There’s little Amorim can do about this really, it’s on INEOS to set the culture in a way that aids the coaching and playing staff and I don’t think they’ve helped on this front at all, they’ve actively made the mood around the club worse with their decisions so far.
I don’t think it changes without a huge upheaval of playing staff and complete change in how the club operates. The way we interact with the media, the way we interact and treat fans, the way we are treating our staff. Everything just feels massively off. Few, if any, other clubs in this league have to operate in such a toxic environment. It’s draining to watch, I can’t imagine how bad it is to be a part of it. There’s little Amorim can do about this really, it’s on INEOS to set the culture in a way that aids the coaching and playing staff and I don’t think they’ve helped on this front at all, they’ve actively made the mood around the club worse with their decisions so far.
Already it feels like the fan base is souring on him a bit due to his stubborness, he needs a convincing win against Wolves (who typically are enjoying a new manager bounce).
Just adding to this. What’s the worst thing that could happen to a team that’s proven vulnerable to conceding from set-pieces? The answer is playing against teams that are really good at set-pieces. Now name the three best teams in the league at scoring from set-pieces this season? The answer is Arsenal, Forest and Bournemouth. You honestly would struggle to hand pick a more awkward start for Amorim.
The underlying’s have been generally good, we need to really get on top of set pieces and stop conceding first. At the very minimum, if our forwards don’t fire we have to turn losses into draws, every game can’t be a win or a loss.
One thing that’s struck me with Amorim is how he’s also absorbed the anxieties of this team, his demeanour in the dug out lacks the conviction he had at Sporting. Completely understandable but notable nonetheless.
Imagine sitting there, after a loss like this and you look up and see the roof leaking.
You could only laugh.
He must wonder what the hell he's gotten himself into.
You could only laugh.
He must wonder what the hell he's gotten himself into.
Feel for him today but he needs to learn a few things super fast...
-Malacia is nowhere near good enough to even play never mind start for us in a vital position.
-Our forwards in general are just terrible, Zirkzee up top was tragic. He's ok in dead rubber games like Southampton at home or something.
- Bruno must be taken off set pieces, I play veterans football now and am 37 and I'm convinced I could put a better corner in than him. His free kicks and corners are so bad.
-We need physicality badly, there's a reason why ugarte and de Ligt look good and it's because they are fit and strong we don't have much of that!
Today wasn't his fault but I really hope he learns from it. We desperately need a LWB, Striker and a 10.
-Malacia is nowhere near good enough to even play never mind start for us in a vital position.
-Our forwards in general are just terrible, Zirkzee up top was tragic. He's ok in dead rubber games like Southampton at home or something.
- Bruno must be taken off set pieces, I play veterans football now and am 37 and I'm convinced I could put a better corner in than him. His free kicks and corners are so bad.
-We need physicality badly, there's a reason why ugarte and de Ligt look good and it's because they are fit and strong we don't have much of that!
Today wasn't his fault but I really hope he learns from it. We desperately need a LWB, Striker and a 10.
Shows how much of a mental game sport really is. Same as when you get new manager bounces or things like City’s form. I don’t even think this kind of stuff comes from the coach, the dressing room needs to be taking accountability and front up. People have started to rewrite history already on this squad but there are a lot of good players there.
We dont have da monies !
Change to what exactly? Isn't not playing to his philosophy exactly what Ten Hag was accused of, and he wasn't getting results either, so why would you expect results to dramatically improve from changing to an apparent style that suits our players, what even is that style?
agreeBournemouth and Forrest will not finish in the Top 5, they’ve had great starts but player for player a squad that cost as much as United should be wining their home games against these teams and wining away to Ipswich, Newcastle smashed them 0-4 and they might do the same to us, we have a mental fragility and it’s been there for 2 and half years, let’s not kid ourselves.
Reality check Onana, Bayinder are not good enough, Malacia, MDL, Lindelof, Zirkzee, Antony, Martinez in current form are not good enough. We had 7 strikers going into the season, Sancho gone, Rashford and Garnaucho next and Casemiro, Evan’s, Eriksen are aging out of professional football!, this is the worst United squad since 1974 and the league position shows that!
We need 3 or 4 in for January and 5 or 6 in the summer, a complete reset is needed.
In the same post you’re arguing that we should be beating teams who are in the top 5 on merit and that our squad is so poor they basically all need to be upgraded. Can’t you see the contradiction here?