Are some fans already starting to doubt him? Seriously? The guy has only been here for a short time, without the benefit of a full preseason, and we're already seeing a more structured style of play. We're no longer as exposed as we were during Erik's tenure, and our ball possession has noticeably improved. How hard is it for some fans to grasp that there are no miracles that can undo the damage of the past decade overnight?
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
I understand this, however the players were not making as many individual mistakes under EtH, I like the set up we have, we definitely have more control over games but concentration and lapses of judgement seems to be happening way more frequently now than at any point under EtH.
Is this just coincidence or maybe are the players concentrating too much on learning the new system or finding it hard to keep shape leading to these mistakes?
I wouldn't even say that they were not making these mistakes, it's just that our opposition were far worse at capitalizing on them which I think is pure coincidence. There were many games last season which we should have lost convincingly based on xG, and where we conceded a significant number of big chances that were wasted. We overperformed our metrics greatly last year, whereas it's been the opposite since Amorim joined so far.
It will eventually regress back to the mean and we will start conceding fewer goals.
This is the first match that I'd put some of the blame on Amorim. Not even necessarily due to the starting line-up (although that wasn't great), but his subs were poor. It was clear we desperately needed more attacking threat from the wingbacks, and it should have been Antony or Garnacho coming on in one of those roles (or move Amad back there if we bring on an extra attacker). Instead we just played fullbacks who have their strengths in the build-up in deeper areas for the entire match. Taking off Ugarte was asking for trouble as well.
Anyone talking about Amorim's job being under pressure is taking the piss though.
Anyone talking about Amorim's job being under pressure is taking the piss though.
Seeing as the immediate consequence of those subs was the game getting away from us after two quick goals conceded due to attacks down our right flank It’s a stretch to say the main problem was not bringing on a more attacking RWB.
We posed plenty of attacking threat after his subs. The only problem was that five minutes of slapstick defending.
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I’m sure that’s a factor. Why wouldn’t it be? That’s an inevitable consequence of players learning a new system with very little time to drill them on it in training. But that’s life. The alternative is changing nothing and continuing to get the same results. As Amorin said himself, we need to expect this. The idea is we use this half a season to get the players up to speed so we can hit the ground running next season. We’re not getting relegated and we can still get into Europe if we finish strongly. So there really isn’t any need for so many fans to throw their toys out of the pram.
I feel we have lost basics of defending even moreso than before. It feels like wel concede a big chance from every set piece which is quite a step back.
We are playing considerably better than under eth. Although our squad is not good enough and we are learning a new system you can see steps in the right direction. It will click at some point that I am sure of. The stats are showing that we are on the right track
That seems to happen to us almost every game, usually immediately after we come out for the second half. However after we started the second half well, that kind of felt like a kick to the gut.
We still had enough chances to get a couple of goals back, unfortunately our forwards had a mare in front of goal during some really promising opportunities. That Garnacho 1-1 almost immediately after their third was such a tame effort. We really need a prolific scorer in this team if we want to progress to being a regular top 4 team fighting for honours.
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A step back from conceding big chances from every attack in open play? We're defending better on the whole. But our set piece defending has taken a hit.
Of course he has got full support from my side but I was skeptical about the appointment in the first place and wanted Tuchel when he was available. He would have come in with a more pragmatic approach and he is used to manage big names and egos. Maybe not the most exciting prospect but with a guarantee to get into top 4/5 within 1 or 2 seasons.
The problem is taking over this United team might be the biggest challenge in football right now. A huge club with a lot of pressure but in an awful state. A really bad squad bound by long term contracts and not enough money to make a fresh start. I cannot really think of other European giants having been in such a bad situation over the past two decades. Maybe Juve when they were relegated but even they were not hindered in the same way and came back without too much trouble.
Amorim surely is a good coach (and probably Ten Hag as well) but I personally think he is not experienced enough and he should have taken one more step to a club with a more solid foundation before coming here insisting on his system without having the tools to be successful.
I just hope he gets full support in January and summer 2025 as there is no way he will survive with this squad.
Our set piece defending has also looked worse than it probably is due to our fixtures. Guess which three teams have scored the most goals from set pieces in the league this season? Arsenal, Forest and Bournemouth.
People calling for his head already? Seriously, we have some of the dumbest fans out there who understand nothing about football....
Especially after we just beat City away and there are clear signs that we improve after years of crap in all relevant aspects.
Especially after we just beat City away and there are clear signs that we improve after years of crap in all relevant aspects.
He may be when on form but when he is out of form he deserves to be dropped like anyone else. The days of favouritism are hopefully over. He has not been producing on the pitch and in fact has been invisible in many matches. So dunno how you can say in all seriousness that he’s been “better” than most
I like anorim but always worried about the 343 and nothing has changed. We weren't good with 4 at the back but I feel like we have more players that would suit a 433 or 4231 than a 343 and therefore the transition is more difficult and may require us to buy more players. In the meantime the owners could lose patience with amorim. Should he fail we are likely to go with a manager who favours 4 at the back so that would be another change in system
I still think it's a training issue or Old Trafford is cursed and the moment players step in the curse activates.
Is that pre or post playing United though?
Yes, I read that in an above post of yours and it explains a lot.
It is a sign of well drilled teams, which we aren't yet with the coaching team having changed a few weeks ago.
But looking at how we are better at controlling the game, and also how his in game management has worked against Spurs and City, I am confident that we have a manager now who's capable of pulling his weight tactically. More than Ten Hag was able to do after 2 years.
That is what you want, a manager who is pulling his weight. That doesn't change the fact that the quality on the managerial bench in this league is very high. Other teams managers are pulling their weight too. Bournemouth are extremely well coached, as are Nottingham. As are Arsenal, as hard as it is to admit.
The margins are very small, it's silly to have a meltdown just because we're still losing some games against such teams, when we are still such a work in progress as a whole.
I don’t know. But even if it’s after playing United I doubt a single goal moved the dial much for Forest/Bournemouth and Arsenal were definitely top before they played us.
If things doesn’t change and he doesn’t get any backing in the summer because economic restrictions. Could he be the first manager to actually resign?
He’s not even 40, had a fantastic period at Sporting. Why ruin your cv with all the crap going at United, with worst and most hypocritical media in the world.
Maybe he just laughs and leaves. Who would blame him.
It even pours on him during press conferences…
He’s not even 40, had a fantastic period at Sporting. Why ruin your cv with all the crap going at United, with worst and most hypocritical media in the world.
Maybe he just laughs and leaves. Who would blame him.
It even pours on him during press conferences…
Surely to God we have to embrace short-term pain for long-term gain? Look at Arsenal under Arteta for the first season or two. Now they're a top three, possibly top two side, challenging for top honours regularly.
Sad isn’t. Guess money talks.
This has been said about every manager we've had since SAF.
This is the worst team ive ever seen us have. I think nearly all of them need replacement and I'm not sure Amorim will be given the time. I can see inconsistent results even next season, I trust him though. Although I don't like the 2 x 10s behind the striker version of 343
Looking at our last games with our attackers it's pretty much Amad ahead of everyone and then Rashford.. How Hojlund and especially Garnacho gets a free pass is beyond me when we looked the best with a Front 3 of Rashford, Zirkzee and Bruno with Amad as a wingback.. That should have been built on and used against Arsenal but instead we got Hojlund, Garnacho and Mount who were just dowright bad and then gets rewarded for that? No wonder both Zirkzee and Rashford lost confidence when they actually performed but got benched in an important game
We've already starting seeing the first U-Turn with Howson going hard on Amorim and defending Rashy.
Howson is in idiot though. Like everyone else with social media followers he will change his mind depending on which way the wind blows.
Can’t understand how the likes get so many hanging on their every words
This wasnt the case this season though. We had terrible games to Liverpool and Spurs but now we ship the same number to the likes of Forrest and Bournemouth at home (with Onana bailing us out of Ipswich away), and its from basic errors. Its more reminiscent of when we were much more open the year prior, but right now we have a more solid defensive structure which is what makes it more baffling.
This season before the last manager was sacked our defensive record was a lot better but we sucked going forward. Right now we keep the ball much better in possession but are shit in defence and attack.
Let's not be ridiculous. He said himself this was going to be a painful start when he joined and it would take time.
If he packs it in and resigns so soon into his tenure then that will do even more damage to his reputation.
They seem to be in the tiny minority fortunately, but honestly - it's uncanny how many of our fans are making the exact same justifications for our current shite results that they were in the early days of Ten Hag. eg. he needs time, this squad is a mess (it's all Ole's fault!!), too many bad apples in the dressing room who he needs to boot out, and the Caf's favourite 'this is really similar to Klopp's early days at Liverpool'
At the same time Ruben (disclaimer - I have faith in the guy and think he will come good... although I said that about ETH too...
) is saying very similar to what Ten Hag said and was constantly given shit for eg, he needs more time, stick the philosophy, saying performances were good after terrible defeats etc.I agree that there's much clearer progress evident in the style of play but results need to start improving fast. Getting beaten at home comfortably by Forest and Bournemouth is unacceptable and it's not helpful to pretend otherwise.
He's also getting praised for persevering with his set-up in the face of rubbish results and with a team who clearly don't fit into the shape - this is exactly what got Ten Hag sacked, with the mounting bad results piling enormous pressure on the players which they clearly can't handle. The only difference is Ruben's style is more controlled so the performances and underlying stats aren't as bad. He's also much better at rotation which will help him keep the dressing room onside, which is a refreshing change from every manager we've had since Fergie.
There are a lot more similarities between the two than most are willing to admit, with the main one being that they're both trying to impose a style which our squad is not set-up for. The main difference is Ruben has the charm and can manipulate the media much more effectively but it can't sustain indefinitely.
Managers today don't resign, as a general rule. That would null out a potential pay off.
I see him more sticking to his guns, and hoping the ownership of the club stick to theirs - because one of the conversations with them before joining must have been around a long term plan and investment to support that plan.
If the ownership of the club lets him down in that regard, I can see a future fractured relationship that ultimately results in a sacking - and thus the merry go round will continue - but that's purely hypothetical - we're a long way off questioning Amorim at this moment in time. A long, long way. I wouldn't bother questioning him at all as the right or wrong man until at the very least the end of next season.
I'm sick to death of this club to honest. I'm ok with short term (hell, even medium term) pain for long term gain. I'd rather put the manager blindly on a pedestal and blame everyone from the owner to the kit man - because the club is rotten to the core and needs an almighty amount of change.
you're right unfortunately. I expected better for him though. I thought he was better than that, way better. Maybe Rio pulled his leash or something.
Oh absolutely. But how much pain is it, really? We have massively improved our standing in EL with 3 wins, we've seen a number of much more composed performances, we had a great derby win.
We've had a couple of frustrating defeats but that isn't a change from before. Nothing is worse than it was, some things are definitively better already. So if "short term pain" means not everything is great right away, or even for several months, how hard can it be to endure it?
This is the cycle we are in. It is always easier to blame the manager, but the problems at the club clearly run much deeper than the manager and have done for a long time.They seem to be in the tiny minority fortunately, but honestly - it's uncanny how many of our fans are making the exact same justifications for our current shite results that they were in the early days of Ten Hag. eg. he needs time, this squad is a mess (it's all Ole's fault!!), too many bad apples in the dressing room who he needs to boot out, and the Caf's favourite 'this is really similar to Klopp's early days at Liverpool'
At the same time Ruben (disclaimer - I have faith in the guy and think he will come good... although I said that about ETH too...
I agree that there's much clearer progress evident in the style of play but results need to start improving fast. Getting beaten at home comfortably by Forest and Bournemouth is unacceptable and it's not helpful to pretend otherwise.
He's also getting praised for persevering with his set-up in the face of rubbish results and with a team who clearly don't fit into the shape - this is exactly what got Ten Hag sacked, with the mounting bad results piling enormous pressure on the players which they clearly can't handle. The only difference is Ruben's style is more controlled so the performances and underlying stats aren't as bad. He's also much better at rotation which will help him keep the dressing room onside, which is a refreshing change from every manager we've had since Fergie.
There are a lot more similarities between the two than most are willing to admit, with the main one being that they're both trying to impose a style which our squad is not set-up for. The main difference is Ruben has the charm and can manipulate the media much more effectively but it can't sustain indefinitely.
Yeah this is an important point. And I’m repeating myself here but we’ve only lost three games under Amorin. Against the teams who are currently 3rd, 4th and 5th in the table. It’s not like we’re having to endure getting beat by bottom half teams. So this “pain” could be a lot worse.
Howson can't be taken serious. However with the amount of Rashford fanboys Amorim was always going to have a harder time than someone like EtH
Reason I ask is a +1 or +2 is massive given most teams are very close for this stat. I can only find something from Dec 5th when bmouth and forest were not in the top 5
Howson is playing to his base. Impatient children. A lot of them on here too, by the looks of things.
Maybe. However I remember him defending EtH when it was already clear he wasn't good enough. So I think Amorim's treatment of Rashford (totally the right one in my opinion) plays a huge part too.
That’s really just semantics though. The point is we’ve been conceding set piece goals against teams that have a very good record of scoring set piece goals this season. That Dec 5th piece has Everton right up there as well. So Amorin has already had to negotiate four of the best set piece clubs in the league.