Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[ABTEK]

Simple question for the caf: In a hypothetical scenario where Liverpool hired Amorim instead of Arne Slot, and United went for Arne, how would each team's season play out?

Disclaimer: I'm not comparing the two teams' capabilities - I just want to understand the root cause of United's situation by comparing it to an established team with a relatively new coach.

 

[bosnian_red]

The same form which made him the exciting talent he is. Coming from out wide, using his pace and coming in. I know he’s not going to change it and I know he’s trying to find players for right positions but I hope he can do that sooner rather than later.

It's on Garnacho to turn his own form around. He's been poor all season, it wasn't just a thing since Amorim. It's not a big deal, he's a young player and this thing always happens to young wingers. But Garnacho has to find his effectiveness again. He hasn't worked hard enough nor has he been anywhere near good enough when dribbling with the ball.

 

[LordSpud]

I am just baffled reading this thread. He started in November, let's at least give this guy a chance to get these players on the training pitch before we throw him under the bridge.

Jim Ratcliffe doesn't have time man he's old and ruthless and needs results instantly.

 

[Frosty]

Jim Ratcliffe doesn't have time man he's old and ruthless and needs results instantly.

This is what I am worried about.

 

[arthurka]

Jim Ratcliffe doesn't have time man he's old and ruthless and needs results instantly.

Yeah that's a great reason, let's start listening to a senile billionaire who has never ever been closer to football than the stands.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's on Garnacho to turn his own form around. He's been poor all season, it wasn't just a thing since Amorim. It's not a big deal, he's a young player and this thing always happens to young wingers. But Garnacho has to find his effectiveness again. He hasn't worked hard enough nor has he been anywhere near good enough when dribbling with the ball.

I felt bad for him today. You could tell he was desperate to make an impression. He worked incredibly hard. But it just wasn’t happening. He did do a couple of good things but some bad mistakes too.

 

[SparcMac]

Jim Ratcliffe doesn't have time man he's old and ruthless and needs results instantly.

Buy the players who can score goals then?

 

[bosnian_red]

I felt bad for him today. You could tell he was desperate to make an impression. He worked incredibly hard. But it just wasn’t happening. He did do a couple of good things but some bad mistakes too.

Yeah, I have little doubt that he will turn it around, young players have tough periods. Amorims system if anything is putting less pressure on our young attackers as there are fewer spots for them to play in, so they can be rotated out more normally and have to work their way back in rather than just play every game right away. I do want to see him come in on the right more often though. He was better there than the left under Ten Hag for me, and we can have Amad and Garnacho basically both playing from the right in this system while we keep Bruno on the left.

 

[Judas]

Has he actually improved the team?

Seems like the same problems still exist despite him been in charge now for 6 weeks.

I know 6 whole weeks. Why aren't we champions yet?

 

[Hester_manc]

I am just baffled reading this thread. He started in November, let's at least give this guy a chance to get these players on the training pitch before we throw him under the bridge.

I can understand your point of view if from the start you have believed in Amorim as a new and better manager for United, a manager who will take United in the right direction. But if you, like me, have been very skeptical of Amorim as United manager from the start, then perhaps there is not so far to dissatisfaction.

Of course he must have a fair chance now that he is our manager. But is it so strange that you become dissatisfied with him more quickly if you were tired of the choice falling on him in advance?

I sincerely hope all the best for Amorim and his plans with United. I hope that he develops the club in the right direction. But I just never had the faith that he is the right choice. But I still hope to be disproved and want to support him.

So I do agree with you that we must give him a fair chance.

 

[Judas]

I can understand your point of view if from the start you have believed in Amorim as a new and better manager for United, a manager who will take United in the right direction. But if you, like me, have been very skeptical of Amorim as United manager from the start, then perhaps there is not so far to dissatisfaction.

Of course he must have a fair chance now that he is our manager. But is it so strange that you become dissatisfied with him more quickly if you were tired of the choice falling on him in advance?

I sincerely hope all the best for Amorim and his plans with United. I hope that he develops the club in the right direction. But I just never had the faith that he is the right choice. But I still hope to be disproved and want to support him.

So I do agree with you that we must give him a fair chance.

I'd love to know who you'd have preferred to take over. Genuinely.

 

[AndySmith1990]

I can understand your point of view if from the start you have believed in Amorim as a new and better manager for United, a manager who will take United in the right direction. But if you, like me, have been very skeptical of Amorim as United manager from the start, then perhaps there is not so far to dissatisfaction.

Of course he must have a fair chance now that he is our manager. But is it so strange that you become dissatisfied with him more quickly if you were tired of the choice falling on him in advance?

I sincerely hope all the best for Amorim and his plans with United. I hope that he develops the club in the right direction. But I just never had the faith that he is the right choice. But I still hope to be disproved and want to support him.

So I do agree with you that we must give him a fair chance.

Out of interest what made you skeptical of the decision to hire him?

 

[Jericholyte2]

The club reminds me an awful lot of the country (UK) right now:

• Sold off on the cheap
• When we did have money we spaffed it up the wall on (Woodward) vanity projects
• New people come in with a desire for change things
• There’s no money to actually change things
• They then decide to hit the lowest earners for 6 whilst doing nothing with the millionaire players who do feck all

 

[greater wall]

Buy the players who can score goals then?

The strategy is to buy young players who can become superstars, which is the strategy mid table sides like Brighton pursue, so United should be compared with them rather than fixate on the top four.

 

[Judas]

I'm starting to think this place has absolutely zero right to feel superior to the likes of Bluemoon, RAWK, Arsenalmania, Spurs cock forum whatever its called etc. The reaction over the last few weeks has been predictably hysterical. So many preach that they'll give the manager time, yet the meltdowns and tantrums have been coming thick and fast and that's just today!

 

[Waywestofthere]

I could never see it with Hag, but I can with Ruben. Hopefully United doesn’t ruin him first.

 

[Hester_manc]

Out of interest what made you skeptical of the decision to hire him?

I was particularly skeptical for these reasons:

- His preferred formation, which we also see at United now, with 5 defenders. I just don't think we have enough players to fit that formation and it will take a very long time to get a squad to fit that I'm afraid.

- His experience: He has good experience from Sporting. But, like ETH, it is from a much lower league. So I would have preferred a manager with experience from the PL or at least a bigger league like the Spanish or German.

- His experience (again): Is he really ready to deal with a madhouse like Manchester United?

 

[AshRK]

He has to take some blame today. Today's defeat and performance irritated me. He has to realize it soon , there are certain players he has to stop selecting no matter what. Malacia being one of them. He is just not good enough. Also, zirkzee is not good enough to start against a tough opponent like today. Ugarte unfortunately has to be in the pitch if we are to win the midfield battle. Mainoo Bruno mf is asking for trouble.

This season is a write off but I rather see academy players than seeing eriksen lindelof malacia start games moving forward.

 

[stubie]

I know 6 whole weeks. Why aren't we champions yet?

Hey I not expecting championship material just yet

Maybe stop paying too much respect to the likes of Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth and getting our arses kicked by bang average teams will do for a start!

 

[Judas]

Hey I not expecting championship material just yet

Maybe stop paying too much respect to the likes of Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth and getting our arses kicked by bang average teams will do for a start!

I mean it's nothing about paying respect is it? We had enough chances to score as many as Bournemouth today had it not been perhaps the worst display of finishing I've seen in a long time. I'm not saying we're incredible right now, but when we keep gifting whoever we're playing goals, it's never going to be easy.

Also Bournemouth are better than us this season, in fact they're better than plenty of teams. You're looking at the name instead of the reality of the situation. They're actually where we want to be, we're the mid table nothing side at the moment.

 

[SparcMac]

Hey I not expecting championship material just yet

Maybe stop paying too much respect to the likes of Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth and getting our arses kicked by bang average teams will do for a start!

The bang Average Brighton who started the season red hot with a new manager and system, just after we had played them hit a little slump, yet is ahead of us on table.
The bang Average Brentford who up to yesterday had epic home run of games and praised by all the league
The bang Average Bournemouth who is up to 5th in the table by end of December.

Can I continue with the bang Average Notthingham who is about to run for Champions League still?

All those teams have been known for high work rate and very good structure for years, all of which are doing well above their "level" and resources. So they are organized and well run, while we are only figuring out shit out?

 

[Hester_manc]

I'd love to know who you'd have preferred to take over. Genuinely.

It's always easier to say who you'd rather not see at United as manager - admittedly. But from the candidates that were seriously rumored for United, I would have preferred Thomas Frank since you ask.

 

[christy87]

Hey I not expecting championship material just yet

Maybe stop paying too much respect to the likes of Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth and getting our arses kicked by bang average teams will do for a start!

We are the bang average team with with an elite name, the only thing bang average about the team's you've mentioned is there names.

 

[RDCR07]

It's always easier to say who you'd rather not see at United as manager - admittedly. But from the candidates that were seriously rumored for United, I would have preferred Thomas Frank since you ask.

At least if you said Iraoila I can half understand but I don’t know what people see in Frank to say he can take over at Man United and be successful. He is so inconsistent at Brentford.

 

[CasaStreets]

Hey I not expecting championship material just yet

Maybe stop paying too much respect to the likes of Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth and getting our arses kicked by bang average teams will do for a start!

60% possession, 23 shots to 10, 13 corners to 1, higher xG despite conceding a pen. All of that despite probably our weakest or 2nd weakest performance since he arrived.

If you can’t see and feel the difference, that’s on you. Doesn’t mean he will succeed, but his system and tactics have unquestionably shifted the dynamics that we saw under EtH. Far more control and fewer shots conceded.

Only time will tell if that translates into success though. Eventually our players will have to finish chances to win - that much is always true.

 

[DJ_21]

We have barely controlled the games though. Did it look like control today and Thursday. Yes we created chances but we look dreadful defensively, teams go through us easily. That is not control.

They don’t go through us as easy as they did under ETH. I think you’ll find our biggest issue at the minute is conceding set pieces. That’s the only way Arsenal could beat us. And yes we controlled the spurs game for the majority, we also controlled the 2nd half against city. 2 decent teams away from home where we controlled parts of it… in fact as there been a game under Amorim where we’ve had less possession?

 

[Crostien]

Yeah that's a great reason, let's start listening to a senile billionaire who has never ever been closer to football than the stands.

Being old doesn't make you senile.

I agree Ratcliffe may not be up to it, but no need for the ageist claptrap.

I mean it's nothing about paying respect is it? We had enough chances to score as many as Bournemouth today had it not been perhaps the worst display of finishing I've seen in a long time. I'm not saying we're incredible right now, but when we keep gifting whoever we're playing goals, it's never going to be easy.

Also Bournemouth are better than us this season, in fact they're better than plenty of teams. You're looking at the name instead of the reality of the situation. They're actually where we want to be, we're the mid table nothing side at the moment.

Must be honest, Judas, our profligacy is nothing new. Under Jose, Ole and EtH we had countless matches we failed in chiefly due to wayward finishing and mental lapses.

Hoping to all hope Amorim and Co have wind of our mentality midgets.

 

[Solius]

Would love to hear which goals people think are on Amorim.

The one where Onana let a central shot go in? The one where him and Martinez let a weak header bounce over the line? The one where Bayindir palmed a central shot straight back out? The one where he let a corner go straight in? The one where Martinez casually flicked it into the center of our box? The one where Maz dived in for zero reason? The multiple corner ones that he’s had zero training ground time to work on?

Our xG against from open play is pretty low. It was excellent against Arsenal and City. People need to learn to separate goals from managers. He’s got us entering the opposition box way more than before, we have way more control in games, they’re not as chaotic basketball game style as before, we regularly create a decent enough amoint of chances to win the game. He can’t do everything for them. We’ve conceded a comical amount of goals that he could do nothing about. Ten hag had the same at times but he is partly responsible for the chaotic nature some of these players have. It needs to be coached out of them and that takes time for some, replacements for others.

 

[mav_9me]

Not disagreeing on that but you seem to suggest he isn't poor. Maybe I read it wrong. Hands up if so.

Just to clear it up I think that's a 4/5 success so far (people may so hold off on Yoro) which is more than good enough. I also like Zirkzee but understand that he hasn't been great so far.

 

[Hester_manc]

At least if you said Iraoila I can half understand but I don’t know what people see in Frank to say he can take over at Man United and be successful. He is so inconsistent at Brentford.

When you're talking Brentford, you can't ask for a manager to be able to do better than he has done.

He got them promoted to the PL with one of the smallest budgets in the Championship. And he has developed the team to be a good middle team in the PL and has kept it one of the smallest budgets in this league too.

He also has experience from the PL, and if he has been able to transform Brentford so much, he will presumably also be able to develop United.

Furthermore, he uses a tactic that suits our squad much better than Amorim does now.

But really, it's an irrelevant discussion now. Amorim is our manager and I think we should try to support him. However, I would like to point out that the road to dissatisfaction is probably shorter if you were skeptical of him in advance.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

The club reminds me an awful lot of the country (UK) right now:

• Sold off on the cheap
• When we did have money we spaffed it up the wall on (Woodward) vanity projects
• New people come in with a desire for change things
• There’s no money to actually change things
• They then decide to hit the lowest earners for 6 whilst doing nothing with the millionaire players who do feck all

That’s actually a pretty accurate analogy, honestly.

 

[christy87]

Would love to hear which goals people think are on Amorim.

The one where Onana let a central shot go in? The one where him and Martinez let a weak header bounce over the line? The one where Bayindir palmed a central shot straight back out? The one where he let a corner go straight in? The one where Martinez casually flicked it into the center of our box? The one where Maz dived in for zero reason? The multiple corner ones that he’s had zero training ground time to work on?

Our xG against from open play is pretty low. It was excellent against Arsenal and City. People need to learn to separate goals from managers. He’s got us entering the opposition box way more than before, we have way more control in games, they’re not as chaotic basketball game style as before, we regularly create a decent enough amoint of chances to win the game. He can’t do everything for them. We’ve conceded a comical amount of goals that he could do nothing about. Ten hag had the same at times but he is partly responsible for the chaotic nature some of these players have. It needs to be coached out of them and that takes time for some, replacements for others.

I agree with this, but today taking ugarte off and moving Bruno into midfield didn't work, it left us to light in midfield, what exactly Bruno was doing on the 3rd I don't know.

 

[SuperiorXI]

You can't expect Amorim to build the Burj Khalifa with a half empty box of off brand lego while blindfolded and in handcuffs hung upside down

 

[mav_9me]

xG is a bullshit stat. No one who watched the game can come and say that we didn't deserve to lose it convincingly.

Well I for one disagree. We didn't deserve to lose it convincingly. It was never a 0-3 game. We couldn't finish any of the chances and gifted them the 2nd and 3rd goals. We had too many chances and they had too few to say we deserved to lose 0-3 convincingly

 

[always_hoping]

Agreed, here in lies the problem, and Ruben will out on his arse if these so called fans get what they want

What do they want at this stage? surely the penny has dropped even for those with lowest IQ that the issues at this club are far beyond the manager.

 

[mav_9me]

100% correct. I said this as well in the match thread, but not bringing in Amorim in the summer was a massive mistake by the club, which ashworth paid for with his job. Amorim should not waiver from his principles just to get better results, the players need to adapt and put better performances out there. Today was all on the players not Amorim.

Could not agree more. At that time I didn't think Amorim was an option cause of the formation he uses. But if he was, we should have just moved on from ETH in the summer. Hopefully lessons learned.

 

[Pexbo]

The club reminds me an awful lot of the country (UK) right now:

• Sold off on the cheap
• When we did have money we spaffed it up the wall on (Woodward) vanity projects
• New people come in with a desire for change things
• There’s no money to actually change things
• They then decide to hit the lowest earners for 6 whilst doing nothing with the millionaire players who do feck all

My man

 

[sixdwarf]

Me and my son have just done an eight hour round-trip and £200 plus spent to see his and my first ever defeat live. To effing Bournemouth. What gets me is Amorim is clearly using actual Prem games as training sessions so that the players get used to his system. Hence the constant rotation. He hasn't said those exact words but that is what it is. Who cares about the fans and three points. Why should fans pay elevated ticket prices to watch this utter guff? There's zero passion and zest in the play. And the rotation means zero understanding between the players. It is totally mental and if this is what 'philosophy' serves us we are back in the days of Van Gaal again.

Amorim has got to change this. I get he hasn't got time on the training pitch because the actual games come thick and fast but this is a results business. Nine goals conceded in two games is not good enough and if we keep this going we are relegated.

The fans are being cheated by this constant rotation.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree with this, but today taking ugarte off and moving Bruno into midfield didn't work, it left us to light in midfield, what exactly Bruno was doing on the 3rd I don't know.

The 30 minutes after that sub was our most consistent period of attacking football in the game. So I disagree that the changes didn’t work. He made them to make us offer more of an attacking threat and that’s what happened. The problem was the two stupid goals conceded immediately after the substitution. Which were more down to poor defending than anything to do with our midfield.

 

[Ayoba]

Today was devastating, no doubt about that. The performance, the result, especially after winning away at City, especially after losing our last home game against Forest. We simply had to win. Massive step backwards for this team and Amorim. With newcastle, liverpool and arsenal coming up soon, I struggle to see our next win.

For all the progress in our play, we're still conceding too many goals, we're playing a formation that doesnt suit out players and now we can't even win at home against the likes of Forest and Bournemouth. I just can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, instead I see more misery, more disarray and many more defeats.