agreeRuben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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agreeBournemouth and Forrest will not finish in the Top 5, they’ve had great starts but player for player a squad that cost as much as United should be wining their home games against these teams and wining away to Ipswich, Newcastle smashed them 0-4 and they might do the same to us, we have a mental fragility and it’s been there for 2 and half years, let’s not kid ourselves.
Reality check Onana, Bayinder are not good enough, Malacia, MDL, Lindelof, Zirkzee, Antony, Martinez in current form are not good enough. We had 7 strikers going into the season, Sancho gone, Rashford and Garnaucho next and Casemiro, Evan’s, Eriksen are aging out of professional football!, this is the worst United squad since 1974 and the league position shows that!
We need 3 or 4 in for January and 5 or 6 in the summer, a complete reset is needed.
In the same post you’re arguing that we should be beating teams who are in the top 5 on merit and that our squad is so poor they basically all need to be upgraded. Can’t you see the contradiction here?
And deeply concerning, quite depressing and mentally unhinged all in equal measure.
Who knew completely changing the system mid season and expecting square pegs to fit round holes would lead to this? This season is being viewed as “pre season” and it shows. Whether or not that pays off next year who knows. Confidence of the players looks terrible though.
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I fell asleep for the 2nd half, but having seen the first I have to point some blame to the manager here. Why is he rotating players in league matches?
His formation relies on wing backs, so why would you play your best wing back at CB, therefore completely nullifying your attack in the process? Yoro was a 50m defender, you have to trust him.
Why has Hojlund been dropped? He is clearly our best striker and today was a very important game to try to get some momentum.
The team at the moment picks itself. There is no need to tinker and upset our rhythm.
His formation relies on wing backs, so why would you play your best wing back at CB, therefore completely nullifying your attack in the process? Yoro was a 50m defender, you have to trust him.
Why has Hojlund been dropped? He is clearly our best striker and today was a very important game to try to get some momentum.
The team at the moment picks itself. There is no need to tinker and upset our rhythm.
Hear hear. Its clear he has set up a way for the team to create chances and thats what a manager should do if they want to win points. But if the players keep wasting away those chances there is nothing he can do other than to train/develop them (which takes a lot of time and there is a risk some players are never going to be good enough) or buy new ones. He hasn't gotten the time to do both.
Serious question for people who are already calling him just as bad as Ten Hag: what did you expect when the new manager arrived? that he can make us play good, winning football week in week out instantly by playing the same players that have downed tools and clearly not good enough this very season??
Step away from football for a bit and come back next season. Less stressful that way. Its so silly. Peak Sir Alex can come in the middle of this mess and I doubt even he can fix everything in a blink of an eye. There are constraints everywhere that can only be fixed by training and new players. Both of which takes time because the club decided to keep Ten Hag and sacked him right after. The stupidity began at the end of last season and we are now still paying the price.
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100%
Which is why I'm not worried about results atm. I'm hopeful the players can learn, adapt and apply themselves to the new system.
Berrada wants us to be title contenders in 3 years. I believe we can get there.
Too much sense. 0 out of 10.
No we shouldn’t, behave
Let’s remind ourselves that ETH replaced 75% of the squad during his tenure.
The only players you can possibly be talking about downing tools from Ole throughout ETH and Amorim are Rashford, Dalot and Maguire. Dalot is not great but he’s professional. Maguire has gone through bad spells, been insulted by fans but is completely professional and seems to have a great attitude.
Rashford you could question but it looks like Amorim has sidelined him and his circus.
Amorim came in, he clearly told us that the squad isn’t strong enough or fit enough for his tactics and until he gets the squad the way he needs it, we should expect inconsistency. He recognizes that some just don’t suit tactics and/or playing for a club like Manchester United.
Translated, it means we (in my opinion) have got the right coach, we need to back him, support him and be patient.
Rashford is an issue but he's not the main issue. In fact, Rashford is still one of the best wingers in the club.
By leaving him out of the squad, you will potentially field an even worse player in his position. Like Malacia or Antony. Unthinkable to drop Rashford without proper replacement. This is on Amorim.
By leaving him out of the squad, you will potentially field an even worse player in his position. Like Malacia or Antony. Unthinkable to drop Rashford without proper replacement. This is on Amorim.
I really don’t agree with that statement. By all accounts many of the squad have been questioning Rashford
It’s not unthinkable when Rashford is barely producing 3 out of 10 rated performances. If he’s crap he should be dropped, not just kept in indefinitely
Backing this up, Mitten has said repeatedly that he was told before the season by someone whose job it is to know that United’s team wasn’t a top 4 team. I’m actually encouraged by what Ruben is up to. This is a long term fix at this point.
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Just continue with his vision. No more falling back to stupid shit trying to accommodate people we know aren't good enough
I am quite pleased with how this new style of play is going. We are now losing because of poor finishing (and bad defending), and not because we are being outplayed. Yes we lost 3-0 again to the same opponents, but this is different. This is, like it or not, progress. I hope that Amorim tries to use some of our academy players like Amass. He can't be worse than Malacia, who seems to not have recovered from his injury.
Abandoning the system and reverting to something the squad is more comfortable with is just history repeating itself. All of our managers since Mourinho (Ole included) started off trying to implement their system but ended up abandoning it in a desperate attempt to stop us free falling. The only manager we've had post SAF who stuck to their guns was LVG, and he was hounded out and replaced with a hail mary appointment in Mourinho, who immediately undid anything positive LVG achieved like coaching the team to control possession.
In an alternate universe, Mourinho takes over from SAF instead of Moyes. Has the instant repect of the title winning squad and probably wins a league title after spending that "warchest" Moyes was terrified of opening. The weight of SAF is off the shoulders of any future manager as they're going to be following Mourinho, not SAF. LVG takes over from Mourinho after he has his scheduled meltdown. LVG implements a possession based style of play. Probably wins nothing. Next generation of manager (Ten Hag, Amorim or whoever) comes in and builds on that style and doesn't need years to do it as the foundations have already been laid for them.
Instead we are where we are. Amorim doesn't have the privilege of building upon a foundation because that foundation doesn't exist. It's hard to stomach, but I honestly think we'd be better off dropping out of Europe and spending that time on the training ground. You can't implement a drastic system change when you have to play a match every few days. Either you abandon the match preparation to focus on the system, or you abandoning the system to focus on winning the match.
In an alternate universe, Mourinho takes over from SAF instead of Moyes. Has the instant repect of the title winning squad and probably wins a league title after spending that "warchest" Moyes was terrified of opening. The weight of SAF is off the shoulders of any future manager as they're going to be following Mourinho, not SAF. LVG takes over from Mourinho after he has his scheduled meltdown. LVG implements a possession based style of play. Probably wins nothing. Next generation of manager (Ten Hag, Amorim or whoever) comes in and builds on that style and doesn't need years to do it as the foundations have already been laid for them.
Instead we are where we are. Amorim doesn't have the privilege of building upon a foundation because that foundation doesn't exist. It's hard to stomach, but I honestly think we'd be better off dropping out of Europe and spending that time on the training ground. You can't implement a drastic system change when you have to play a match every few days. Either you abandon the match preparation to focus on the system, or you abandoning the system to focus on winning the match.
Thank you. There is 0 need. I repeat ZERO need to revert and abandon his principles.
I thought this fanbase would have learned from the mistakes of previous managers.
In 2 months I’ve seen more progress under Amorim than I did under 7 months of Moyes, 2 seasons of LVG, 2 of Jose, 3 of Ole, and 2 of ETH.
I’m genuinely looking forward to that this guy will do with a preseason (hopefully) £150m plus whatever we get from sales.
I’m genuinely looking forward to that this guy will do with a preseason (hopefully) £150m plus whatever we get from sales.
We should fully trust and back the manager for the first time. Let him clear the squad and buy players.
I get you’re upset about witnessing a loss live, but that’s sport.
Amorim is trying to determine his squad on the fly, we all know that. Today was hardly a rotated squad. Only really Zirkzee and Malacia. And Zirkzee is a big money signing who should be getting chances like today.
If you’re happy with regular 5th place finishes, and shit football, then fine, but if you want to one day watch your team lift a title again, you’ll have to commit to the growing pains.
Agreed
The problem is whether INEOS has the patience.
It's was reported that they have started to change the objectives of the academy -- from player development as the primary objective to results matter now. And now the inevitable tension between the academy's staff and the INEOS brain trust.
If they don't have patience for academy players... You could potentially see what will happen next.. the ol' corporate quarterly results mindset?
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Subbing out Ugarte seemed to have backfired immensely. Anyways we are back in the "give the manager time" stage of yet another manager. One can always hope.
I agree 100%.
I worry he won't get the time and money to implement what he wants at this club
He can if he shows progress. Part of that is fans recognising what progress is and being realistic about where we are.
The roller coaster, post match, heaven and hell thing wears people out and we'll want to move on to something fresh in a couple of years time.
Excellent take.
Offensively, looking at our underlying metrics via understat: understat, we have dreadfully underperformed our xG throughout the season.
The xGa has reduced a heap under Amorim.
For the cumulative xGA, a whopping 6.26 out of around 28 xGA has come from corners, which tells a big tale.
As for xPoints, as much as I am a bit sceptical of this metric, it has us in tth place. That does tell a bit of a tale as well.
My overall sentiment is that this is a somewhat similar trajectory to Chelsea's underlying stats in 22/23. They had a shocking season but their underlying metrics were quite good. And from memory, this continued into 23/24 where later on, it started to click for them.
This is a player issue and absolutely not the manager's fault at all. I would say he's doing an excellent job outside of the set pieces.
I don't think there's anything to be gained by Amorim abandoning his principles to turn us into late 80s Wimbledon and hopefully finish in the top six, which really is missing the point of bringing him in.
However, I do think Ratcliffe is taking the utter piss by raising ticket prices midseason when the team is struggling.
However, I do think Ratcliffe is taking the utter piss by raising ticket prices midseason when the team is struggling.
I saw the game very differently. We couldn't get to terms with their pressing in the first 30 minutes and were very sloppy with our passing and general control of the ball. I don't remember a sequence of more than 3 or 4 passes that we strung together. We couldn't get near their goal and hardly trobled their defense. Then it got better in the last 15 minutes of the half where we created a few chances and should have leveled.
Then the second half started like the first and we gave them two stupid goals with our mistakes. After going 3-0 up they sat back and we were able to create some chances & half-chances.
I actually thought that Bournemouth controlled the game pretty well and were very convincing in whatever they were doing. They pressed so well, passed around well and generally were able to stop us from playing our game. As Ruben rightly mentioned, we looked nervous and rattled in the game. We weren't able to execute our plays and gave the ball away too sloppily. I thought it was a pretty convincing performance from them and they were the only team that looked like winning the game.
Anyway, onward and upward. It was a very disappointing display from us. Hopefully, we'll learn from it and put in much better performances in the next two games before the end of the year. Winning at this stage in Ruben's process is not paramount, but convincing performances and winning breeds confidence in everyone. Losing is not good for the moral and brings unnecessary pressure.
Personally, I cannot see Ruben not succeeding here. His post match presser was reassuring. He doesn't make any excuses, analyses the game really well and you just feel that he is eventually going to get it right. He seems like the leader that we have missed since Sir Alex retired. Hope these players don't let him down and are able to lift themselves.
Watch the chances created here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/wMGPmyGgs5
We still created so many chances with actual good play and not just pouring forwards or spamming balls into the box. I think we outplayed them rather than them coasting. They kept playing the same way with pressing etc and we played well around their press to create the chances.
There is one thing worrying me about Amorim is that he only sticks with one formation, which is this 3421 formation. I haven’t seen him changing to 3412 or 352 if we need goals (which is a formation that add more goal scorers than 3421). Lot of managers out there tend to change their formation structure just to add more forwards if they need goals, but not with Amorim. I think the lacks of flexibility in his system could be benefit for opposition managers especially in high level of football because they know that he will stick with 3421 formation no matter what.
On the positive side, he has clear idea what he wants. By having clear ideas, I hope this allows our recruitment to understand what kind of players we need to fit his system and hopefully it means we are signing the right players not average players that don’t fit the system, don’t fit the league, and need long time to adapt.
On the positive side, he has clear idea what he wants. By having clear ideas, I hope this allows our recruitment to understand what kind of players we need to fit his system and hopefully it means we are signing the right players not average players that don’t fit the system, don’t fit the league, and need long time to adapt.
I'm all for giving manager time. But as he said it himself "he needs results to buy time". He definitely needs to show more than this. This is not good enough with or without new signings
Amorim has said this from day one.
He's seen the lads close up, and clearly know what a monumentous job he's taken. He know he has to field players that aren't up to it due to the schedule.
If he can handle that pressure (internally and externally), show tactical ability and start to build team spirit, I'll be willing to keep faith despite the results keep being like they are now. But my god, what an insane challenge that is. He basically has to build a culture from scratch.
Strap in - it's going to get rough. Good post btw.
Let him stick to his strategy as there is general improvement in our play. He will need to develop some form of plan b at some point and I hope this will be done once he successfully implements plan a.
I see comparisions here between Amorim and Klopp. There might be some similarities but the differences are markedly different.
The Liverpool team when Klopp took over mid season after Rodgers got sacked didn't have a wholly different tactic compared to what the tactical shift is between ETH and Amorim's styles of play. Plus they had players, while limited in talent, were willing to put in the hard work. We've got a bunch of entitled, overpaid divas who think it's beneath them to do the basic jobs.
I'm not saying that Amorim's got a tougher job than what Klopp had to do with Liverpool. But he's got to do something close to what Klopp did for our management to (hopefully) be backing him up. Klopp in that first half season itself got Liverpool to almost winning the Europa. They were denied a stone cold penalty in the first half for a handball from the opposing team player and then the combustion by Alberto Moreno. Amorim's got to focus on the Europa this time. All the other routes to Europe next season are most definitely closed.
The Liverpool team when Klopp took over mid season after Rodgers got sacked didn't have a wholly different tactic compared to what the tactical shift is between ETH and Amorim's styles of play. Plus they had players, while limited in talent, were willing to put in the hard work. We've got a bunch of entitled, overpaid divas who think it's beneath them to do the basic jobs.
I'm not saying that Amorim's got a tougher job than what Klopp had to do with Liverpool. But he's got to do something close to what Klopp did for our management to (hopefully) be backing him up. Klopp in that first half season itself got Liverpool to almost winning the Europa. They were denied a stone cold penalty in the first half for a handball from the opposing team player and then the combustion by Alberto Moreno. Amorim's got to focus on the Europa this time. All the other routes to Europe next season are most definitely closed.
Arrrreee you Henry Winter in disguise
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It's impossible I know, it's unfair and I know that too.
But, I really want Amorim to make this group better somehow and get them to be more consistent, even though the squad is lacking, I still want Amorim to work his magic and do something, I know there will be bad losses incoming but when the season ends and all is done, I want to then know for a fact that Amorim can be successful with better players, for that to be the case he has to get something out of this current crop somehow.
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But, I really want Amorim to make this group better somehow and get them to be more consistent, even though the squad is lacking, I still want Amorim to work his magic and do something, I know there will be bad losses incoming but when the season ends and all is done, I want to then know for a fact that Amorim can be successful with better players, for that to be the case he has to get something out of this current crop somehow.
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