Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

honirelandboy said:
We have a new manager and Rashford seems to be fitting his tactics and setup perfectly. Under ETH I would say no way. The brace he scored is against a bloomin Norweigan team, lets not get carried away.

Are you not excited that Amorim is getting the best out of Rashford which ETH couldn't do, lets start Hojlund up there and continue to be a mid table team not able to score so. Who do you think will start against Arsenal in all honesty Rashford or Hojlund?
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I'm actually really amused. Literally whatever you said can be applied to Hojlund too.

"We have a new manager and Hojlund seems to be fitting his tactics and setup perfectly. Under ETH I would say no way. The brace Rashford scored is against a bloomin relegation threatened Everton team while doing feck all outside of it, lets not get carried away.

Are you not excited that Amorim is getting the best out of Hojlund which ETH couldn't do, lets start Rashford up there and continue to be a mid table team not able to score so."

Getting the best out of Rashford after 1 and half a game yet the other guy is dropped and not good enough as is after 1 game. See the problem with your arguments?
 
romufc said:
Agreed. Whilst there is so much to be optimistic about, we have seen this dance before. We cannot be fooled with results this time around.

That was a very poor first half performance against Everton, there were numerous nearly moments for them. I recall them going through on goal a few times but made the wrong decision, I saw numerous times our midfield was dominated in the first 30 minutes where they kept playing in between the lines.

If we play like that against Arsenal, unfortunately, we could hold 4/5 goals against us.

This is why the Arsenal game is quite intriguing for many reasons. a. How will he set up? to take on Arsenal in 90 minutes b. Will we press as high or be pragmatic. c. Did he watch how Arsenal can hurt his style? 5-2 v Sporting.

I hope he looks at all those factors and shows us how good of a tactician he is.
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I think ETH was very pragmatic at the start once he realised he needed to tighten things up in his first season we did ok. He tried to play expansive attacking football with the wrong players for it in his second season and it looked to me like he had an agreement with Murtough that he wouldn’t be sacked for doing that so we could see which players were good enough and up for it for the third season. When SJR and co came in his job was clearly under threat again and he went pragmatic in the final and saved his job. Results breed confidence more than specific moments. We don’t have a perfect squad but we do have some very good players across the full age range. There is workrate and fight there and enough class and experience to pick off most teams if this manager can finally get the balance right. Keep us winning and competing and go all out attack against the easier teams and let the lads fill their boots and feel special again. As long as we are working as hard as the opposition I don’t mind if we lose or draw some games trying something new
 
What I would recommend is hold on to your negative opinion/prejudice on ALL players until Amorim himself figures out the best for them. Go with the flow for now amd enjoy the evolution.

PS: match day rants do not count.
 
Solius said:
Amorim literally said he doesn't suit a 9 role. You are just making shit up. Hojlund has played one full game under this manager and scored twice.
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He played very well in one of the ten roles. From what I read about his time at sporting and from what we’ve seen here is he likes two of the front three to be more technical and one of them to ‘stretch’ the play. This can be two technical number 10s and a Højlund style who will hold up and then run in behind:

Hojlund
Bruno - Mount/amad


or one technical 10, a false 9 and then the other 10 makes the run into space. A la the Bruno zirkzee and rashford combo we saw in the weekend.

Zirkzee
Bruno - rashford/garnacho.
 
honirelandboy said:
He dropped Hojlund cause he's not good enough simple as in this moment of time. Don't let the two goals against Bodo fool you. Its great to see him getting the best out of Rashford who seems to be fitting his system perfectly. Rashford will be our mains striker this season which I'm happy with if he keeps on performing. Rashford even as a striker is miles ahead of Hojlund. Zirkzee isn't a striker and found the perfect role for him in the match yesterday. I am actually impressed with Amorim getting the best allready out of the players. We can discard the Ipswich game with the players getting used to his system.
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Why it is not true for Hojlund too? He just scored two in a game! Your post makes no sense.
 
Against Arsenal we’ll see a bit more who he’s starting to rate the most I reckon
 
People making sweeping statements about who the manager does and doesn't rate based on who has been starting after three games when he's come out and said that he wants to rotate is hilarious.
 
DJ_21 said:
Love that he mentioned he wasn’t happy with the way we played despite winning 4-0. The result was good. Performance not to good. We let Everton have a lot of the ball. If we can win without playing good then we’re gonna be on fire when we start to click
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His honesty is refreshing. Despite the results, our performances haven't been that great. We struggle to keep hold off the ball and still do a lot hoofing, huffing and puffing in the 90 minutes. It's important that the system is drilled in this season and then as we add important pieces to the puzzle so that it starts coming together from the next season on.

His comment on Amad and how Ruud giving him a chance in the games he was the interim that built his confidence was excellent. When the interviewer asked him about Rashford and a few others buzzing (don't remember the exact word), he instantly said that it is the new manager bounce as the players want to give a little extra for the new guy. He is a very likeable character and comes across really well. He knows that a lot of work needs to be done before we can hope to challenge for the big trophies again. It has been a relatively easy ride so far against a Norwegian team and two struggling PL teams. Lot of tough games to navigate through in the next two months before the mid-season break. Keeping my fingers crossed that we keep growing as a unit.
 
romufc said:
Agreed. Whilst there is so much to be optimistic about, we have seen this dance before. We cannot be fooled with results this time around.

That was a very poor first half performance against Everton, there were numerous nearly moments for them. I recall them going through on goal a few times but made the wrong decision, I saw numerous times our midfield was dominated in the first 30 minutes where they kept playing in between the lines.

If we play like that against Arsenal, unfortunately, we could hold 4/5 goals against us.

This is why the Arsenal game is quite intriguing for many reasons. a. How will he set up? to take on Arsenal in 90 minutes b. Will we press as high or be pragmatic. c. Did he watch how Arsenal can hurt his style? 5-2 v Sporting.

I hope he looks at all those factors and shows us how good of a tactician he is.
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I think this is very exaggerated. It wasn't perfect or even good but it was far from that bad.

Definitely not a performance where you would expect the other side to score 5.
 
Sarni said:
I think this is very exaggerated. It wasn't perfect or even good but it was far from that bad.

Definitely not a performance where you would expect the other side to score 5.
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I never said they should have scored 5. I just said we were quite poor. There was a 2 v 1 where De Ligt intercepted the cross for a tap in.
There was Beto through on goal but he took it wide.
There was 2/3 where their players ran in behind our wing backs.

We got lucky that we scored when we did as our build up was really poor as well in the first half.

Actually our build up has not improved since Ten Hag. We still struggle to build out properly.
 
honirelandboy said:
One goal in 8 premier league appearances this season says different. He's a very average and limited player at this moment in time and hopefully continues to develop and Rashford will be our main striker this season. Do people think he's going to start Hojlund over Rashford in all honesty with Rashfords current form as striker? Rashford will be our number one striker this season with Hojlund getting some europa league games and cup games and maybe some home games against lower league opposition until he develops more and come on in the 70th minute when the game is done and dusted.. At the current moment in time he's not good enough to lead the line week in week out but hopefully he continues to develop and becomes the player united need.

Is it my opinion that Rashford should be leading the line instead of Hojlund winding people up the wrong way or? Are people not happy that Amorim is getting the best out of Rashford allready and is the player we want to see week in week out? Rashford seems to fit his system perfectly.

Under ETH I would say Rashford should not be leading the line but under Amorim he is the perfect player for the posistion.
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This is rather bewildering. Rashford has almost none of the traits required to play the CF role in this system whereas Hojlund profiles very similar to one particular player who has excelled under Amorim in this setup...

And given Rashford didn't even play upfront yesterday this is essentially a non-argument anyway which makes it even more complexing.
 
honirelandboy said:
One goal in 8 premier league appearances this season says different. He's a very average and limited player at this moment in time and hopefully continues to develop and Rashford will be our main striker this season. Do people think he's going to start Hojlund over Rashford in all honesty with Rashfords current form as striker? Rashford will be our number one striker this season with Hojlund getting some europa league games and cup games and maybe some home games against lower league opposition until he develops more and come on in the 70th minute when the game is done and dusted.. At the current moment in time he's not good enough to lead the line week in week out but hopefully he continues to develop and becomes the player united need.

Is it my opinion that Rashford should be leading the line instead of Hojlund winding people up the wrong way or? Are people not happy that Amorim is getting the best out of Rashford allready and is the player we want to see week in week out? Rashford seems to fit his system perfectly.

Under ETH I would say Rashford should not be leading the line but under Amorim he is the perfect player for the posistion.
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Yes, the undeniable form of rashford. 4 goals in 13. That'll win us titles.
 
romufc said:
Actually our build up has not improved since Ten Hag. We still struggle to build out properly.
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This will improve as players get more used to the spaces that are naturally open in build up (specifically that cross field quick switch that works so well). We also don't particularly have a front 3 where the ball will "stick" if pinged into them right now. Zirkzee will at times and Mount sometimes, but Bruno/Rashford/Garnacho/Hojlund aren't those types of players which can make it tougher to break lines through a press.
 
romufc said:
I never said they should have scored 5. I just said we were quite poor. There was a 2 v 1 where De Ligt intercepted the cross for a tap in.
There was Beto through on goal but he took it wide.
There was 2/3 where their players ran in behind our wing backs.

We got lucky that we scored when we did as our build up was really poor as well in the first half.

Actually our build up has not improved since Ten Hag. We still struggle to build out properly.
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They accumulated an xG of 0.20 in the first half, they basically had a couple of long shot opportunities due to individual mistakes from our defenders/midfielders but more often than not we end up with clean sheet.

Between this game and Bodo game I feel our offense has improved. Of course it’s not at the level we should expect it to be but it’s hard to get there in a week. We haven’t even played the same front 3 as Amorim is trying to find the right setup, and it will take several more games before he does eventually, so expecting improvement to be rather slow.
 
Sarni said:
They accumulated an xG of 0.20 in the first half, they basically had a couple of long shot opportunities due to individual mistakes from our defenders/midfielders but more often than not we end up with clean sheet.

Between this game and Bodo game I feel our offense has improved. Of course it’s not at the level we should expect it to be but it’s hard to get there in a week. We haven’t even played the same front 3 as Amorim is trying to find the right setup, and it will take several more games before he does eventually, so expecting improvement to be rather slow.
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That's a good way of telling me you didn't watch the game.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
This will improve as players get more used to the spaces that are naturally open in build up (specifically that cross field quick switch that works so well). We also don't particularly have a front 3 where the ball will "stick" if pinged into them right now. Zirkzee will at times and Mount sometimes, but Bruno/Rashford/Garnacho/Hojlund aren't those types of players which can make it tougher to break lines through a press.
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I agree. I can see this improving as we get more time to train. I was just saying we shouldn't let stats and results cloud our judgement.
 
romufc said:
I agree. I can see this improving as we get more time to train. I was just saying we shouldn't let stats and results cloud our judgement.
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Yeah as far as yesterday goes, think it was pretty clear we were getting outdueled on any 50/50's for majority of that first half which led to a lot of our issues. But at least the way in which we look to attack and play looks sustainable, and I really like how the formation gives natural spaces and openings to exploit without players having to be really clever about it.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Yeah as far as yesterday goes, think it was pretty clear we were getting outdueled on any 50/50's for majority of that first half which led to a lot of our issues. But at least the way in which we look to attack and play looks sustainable, and I really like how the formation gives natural spaces and openings to exploit without players having to be really clever about it.
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Yep agreed. I think its more our players haven't learnt yet the defensive / pressing shape yet.

You could see that Kobbie / Casemiro were confused at times, who to mark or when to press.

I also think having Kobbie / Casemiro does not work as they are not very nimble, they struggle to cover grass, which is why we looked better with Ugarte there.

It could also be that Ugarte knows the system more?
 
Tony247 said:
What I would recommend is hold on to your negative opinion/prejudice on ALL players until Amorim himself figures out the best for them. Go with the flow for now amd enjoy the evolution.

PS: match day rants do not count.
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This seems an eminently sensible approach. As such you can guarantee it will be ignored.

Edit: except Antony. He’s bobbins. No amount of time and patience is going to change that.
 
romufc said:
Agreed. Whilst there is so much to be optimistic about, we have seen this dance before. We cannot be fooled with results this time around.

That was a very poor first half performance against Everton, there were numerous nearly moments for them. I recall them going through on goal a few times but made the wrong decision, I saw numerous times our midfield was dominated in the first 30 minutes where they kept playing in between the lines.

If we play like that against Arsenal, unfortunately, we could hold 4/5 goals against us.

This is why the Arsenal game is quite intriguing for many reasons. a. How will he set up? to take on Arsenal in 90 minutes b. Will we press as high or be pragmatic. c. Did he watch how Arsenal can hurt his style? 5-2 v Sporting.

I hope he looks at all those factors and shows us how good of a tactician he is.
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Yes I couldn’t agree more. Even Amorim had admitted that we were fortunate and didn’t play as well, we scored during a key moment in the game where we lost control. Everton have made it easier for us to increase the score when they had to come out and chase the game that resulted with plenty of space for our players to exploit

I am sure Amorim knows full well of this, as opposed to some fans where they can’t get past the number of goals we scored and pick players purely on this metric.
 
-Supreme- said:
Yes I couldn’t agree more. Even Amorim had admitted that we were fortunate and didn’t play as well, we scored during a key moment in the game where we lost control. Everton have made it easier for us to increase the score line when they had to come out and chase the game that resulted with plenty of space for our players to exploit

I am sure Amorim knows full well of this, as opposed to some fans where they can’t get past the number of goals we scored and pick players purely on this metric.
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Yep, well Amorim in his presser said.. 3-2 V Bodo was a better performance but it was 3-2 and this was a worse performance but we won 4-0. He acknowledges that we were poor in the first half after 15 mins until we scored.

I dont understand why some fans think we were amazing, bringing out xG against in the first half. Yeah, they didn't create a clear cut chance but we were lucky that they didn't. They got into multiple dangerous positions.

My point was, if we played that first half against Arsenal, we are 2/3 goals down at half time. That was just my personal opinion.
 
romufc said:
Yep, well Amorim in his presser said.. 3-2 V Bodo was a better performance but it was 3-2 and this was a worse performance but we won 4-0. He acknowledges that we were poor in the first half after 15 mins until we scored.

I dont understand why some fans think we were amazing, bringing out xG against in the first half. Yeah, they didn't create a clear cut chance but we were lucky that they didn't. They got into multiple dangerous positions.

My point was, if we played that first half against Arsenal, we are 2/3 goals down at half time. That was just my personal opinion.
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Yep, as you have said it’d be interesting to see how he sets up the team for Arsenal, whether he goes defensive and opts for Rashford to counter on the break with Casermeio alongside Ugarte or go head to head with players that can press and pass effectively i.e. Mount & Garnacho as 10s with Bruno & Ugarte in midfield.
 
“Bye bye ETH” to the tune of Angels by Robbie Williams

I sit and wait
Does ruben contemplate our fate?
And does he know the places where they go
When the players are grey and old?
'Cause I have been told
That motivation lets the wings unfold
So when I'm lying in my bed
Thoughts running through my head
And I feel that football is dead
I'm loving Amorim instead

And through it all he offers me protection
A lot of goals and dedication, whether he’s right or wrong
And down the waterfall, wherever it may take him
I know that United won't break him
When I come to call, he won't forsake me
I'm loving amorim instead
 
romufc said:
That's a good way of telling me you didn't watch the game.
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I did watch the game. We were chaotic for about 20 minutes in the first half, that’s all. It wasn’t that bad, they weren’t all over us, they should not have scored several goals or anything.
 
-Supreme- said:
Yep, as you have said it’d be interesting to see how he sets up the team for Arsenal, whether he goes defensive and opts for Rashford to counter on the break with Casermeio alongside Ugarte or go head to head with players that can press and pass effectively i.e. Mount & Garnacho as 10s with Bruno & Ugarte in midfield.
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I think from his subs / line up, he has given a slight clue..

I suspect Mount and Ugarte come in for energy. Hojlund didn't get on and Zirkzee played 90, so I suspect Hojlund starts.

Mazroui and De Ligt came off, suggests they will start.

I think it will be Hojlund, Garnacho, Mount as front 3.

Bruno is the question mark, if he starts might be in the 2 with Ugarte, which is a risk imo.
 
golden_blunder said:
“Bye bye ETH” to the tune of Angels by Robbie Williams

I sit and wait
Does ruben contemplate our fate?
And does he know the places where they go
When the players are grey and old?
'Cause I have been told
That motivation lets the wings unfold
So when I'm lying in my bed
Thoughts running through my head
And I feel that football is dead
I'm loving Amorim instead

And through it all he offers me protection
A lot of goals and dedication, whether he’s right or wrong
And down the waterfall, wherever it may take him
I know that United won't break him
When I come to call, he won't forsake me
I'm loving amorim instead
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Rawk esque poetry. Brings a tear to my eye...
 
romufc said:
I think from his subs / line up, he has given a slight clue..

I suspect Mount and Ugarte come in for energy. Hojlund didn't get on and Zirkzee played 90, so I suspect Hojlund starts.

Mazroui and De Ligt came off, suggests they will start.

I think it will be Hojlund, Garnacho, Mount as front 3.

Bruno is the question mark, if he starts might be in the 2 with Ugarte, which is a risk imo.
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That’s what I am thinking too, it’s a tough call with Bruno or Cas in midfield, whether the latter defensively is enough to compromise for his inability to pass and gives the ball away constantly, particularly against sides like Arsenal who presses effectively. Personally he will struggle badly and we’ll end up defending deep most of the game so if we opt for Cas, we might as well play Rashford as one of the 10 to play on the counter.
 
-Supreme- said:
That’s what I am thinking too, it’s a tough call with Bruno or Cas in midfield, whether the latter defensively is enough to compromise for his inability to pass and gives the ball away constantly, particularly against sides like Arsenal who presses effectively. Personally he will struggle badly and we’ll end up defending deep most of the game so if we opt for Cas, we might as well play Rashford as one of the 10 to play on the counter.
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Agreed on Bruno, I dont know if he is good enough defensively. There is a difference between tracking and having energy and actually shielding.

its almost we want a combination of Case and Bruno as 1 player. Bruno has the energy / desire/ aggression but whenever I see him defend, its so easy to sidestep him and go past him.

I just cannot see him against Odegard and Saka playing one twos around him.

I suspect he will use Garnacho's counter attacking ability as Rashford doesn't offer the same off the ball work.
 
romufc said:
AmorimAgreed on Bruno, I dont know if he is good enough defensively. There is a difference between tracking and having energy and actually shielding.

its almost we want a combination of Case and Bruno as 1 player. Bruno has the energy / desire/ aggression but whenever I see him defend, its so easy to sidestep him and go past him.

I just cannot see him against Odegard and Saka playing one twos around him.

I suspect he will use Garnacho's counter attacking ability as Rashford doesn't offer the same off the ball work.
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Certainly, there is a different level of risk between Bruno and Cas, this is a game where Amorim can closely observe what these players are made of if they can maintain a decent level of control against the elite teams.

I also prefer Garnacho, not only his off-the ball work but also his ability to dribble and maintain possession of the ball in confined space, at least compared to Rashford, who is a better finisher.
 
Sarni said:
I did watch the game. We were chaotic for about 20 minutes in the first half, that’s all. It wasn’t that bad, they weren’t all over us, they should not have scored several goals or anything.
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I didn't say they should have scored... I said a better team punishes us by 2/3. Whilst they didnt have the clear cut chances, they definitely had clear opportunities to create chances.

Just in the first half... their winger down the right latched onto 2 balls in behind our defence, one of them was a 2 v 1 and De Ligt intercepted the pass..

There were other instances down the left they got in and just couldn't produce the final ball.

To say they had only long shots... is trying to paper over the cracks.
 
-Supreme- said:
Certainly, there is a different level of risk between Bruno and Cas, this is a game where Amorim can closely observe what these players are made of if they can maintain a decent level of control against the elite teams.

I also prefer Garnacho, not only his off-the ball work but also his ability to dribble and maintain possession of the ball in confined space, at least compared to Rashford, who is a better finisher.
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Agreed, this is a very good test to see if old habits come back or do they trust the system?

I guess Amorim will be stuck in 2 minds, to continue the teams progress and accept we could lose, or change it slightly and get a result? Remember where he said, he wishes to risk it for the long run? This is the game he is going to be tested.

Another one of those where we have 2 players with attributes that should be in 1 player.
 
Like these quotes. 4-0 result was bit flukey imo (not that we didn't deserve to win the game) so shouldn't get carried away. Amorim has been around for 3 weeks now and (if we're going into right direction) it'll take lot of time and also some frustrating results before we become better. Think this season will be more interesting in finding out how we'll play under him and perhaps going for it in Europa and cups if possible.

 
romufc said:
Agreed, this is a very good test to see if old habits come back or do they trust the system?

I guess Amorim will be stuck in 2 minds, to continue the teams progress and accept we could lose, or change it slightly and get a result? Remember where he said, he wishes to risk it for the long run? This is the game he is going to be tested.

Another one of those where we have 2 players with attributes that should be in 1 player.
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Indeed, wish we have another semi capable midfielder from our squad instead of going from one extreme to another. M gut feeling is Bruno in CM, we shall see.
 
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