So tactics and formations don't matter? Tell that to Pep. Amorim is a system player, like Pep, where players have very specific positions and roles and need to move together. 3 at the back is not widely used as its hard to get right and can be readily exposed, as we see every week. We play 5 defenders and 2 DMs and still get exposed. Most players are not used to playing Amorim's system and it needs a lot of training ground work, just as the manager himself has stated. Players get uncomfortable when asked to do things not only that they are not used to but also where the results are lacking. Liverpool passed on Amorim in large part as their squad was not suited to his system, also it seems why Ashworth was against his appointment at United. Still, what do they know?
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Are they trying to play a system similar to the first team?
If not, they'll need a whole lot of training sessions to learn Amorim's way from scratch, judging by how our first team is getting on.
Possibly, but Jose did win two trophies (he's say three, of course, with the Community Waste of Time Shield)
Yeah but Amorim is sitting down with the media twice a week, they're going to ask him regardless of whether they get any answers from Ratcliffe or not. They want to stir the pot, nothing new here.
For what it's worth there were a couple of articles in the last week or so that looked like they had been fed by INEOS, which explained the plans with regards to a lot of things. I think you're being naive if you think they are going to sit down and explain things to the media directly. What are they going to say exactly? "We're broke and are having to lay people off if we want to try to turn this ship around". I believe there were statements within the financial accounts that explained that the whole club has been audited by a specialist consultant and they suggested a large number of savings and inefficiencies. The projected saving were, I believe, £40m if they followed through on their suggestions. I think the answers are all there anyway.
Very few if any people actually say that though.
What many people do believe is that there is a wide spectrum of possibility between challenging for the league and being able to do nothing other than sit just above the relegation zone with the current squad.
There's been a few players not worked out (Mount injured all the time, Antony/Sancho pretty ineffective for us given plenty game time despite the big fees), but a lot of the squad, while being far from the pinnacle in their positions are definitely capable players as we've seen on occasion for us and where they've played for other teams.
I personally don't believe our current position and performance level is the best our squad are capable of and that there's nothing a manager can do about it, not a chance.
We do seem to shoot ourselves in the foot with regular errors and loose play that appears to make the managers job impossible. When this is happening with the majority of the players regularly though, do we really think it's down to them all being totally shite, or do we actually consider that low confidence and tactical set up/instruction might have a significant impact on this.
It's literally the managers job to find ways to improve the performance of those they manage. If it was just about needing better players, teams wouldn't change the manager often.
I agrew with you - most of our players have shown that they are capable with INFURIATING inconsistency.
I'm not sure how a coach can fix it.
I mean you expect the likes of Garnacho, Amad, Mainoo and Yoro to blow hot and cold.
And while Bruno can still be useful when he has a bad game, the likes of Dalot, Maguire, Casemiro, Onana can't be fixed.
You can't unbreak Shaw, Licha and Mount.
And our lingering problem is lack of goalscorer. Experienced striker in January would have done wonders for our form!
We have promising players for sure, but our core is very, very young.
We severely lack players in their prime. This is holding us back massively.
He's becoming a dead man walking, isn't he? Too much smoke now, pretty sure there's a fire going on.
What will be the final straw? More games without wining? Going out of domestic and european cups?
Pretty sure only wining a cup or getting at least a conference league qualification can be the only things that can stop the things that are coming to motion.
What will be the final straw? More games without wining? Going out of domestic and european cups?
Pretty sure only wining a cup or getting at least a conference league qualification can be the only things that can stop the things that are coming to motion.
Are there rumours about him getting sacked/being under pressure from the hierarchy?
Nope. And since they were slow with their decision sacking Ten Hag. You can be sure they'll be slow in this one as well. Not to mention theyre trying to save costs.
Fair enough. No idea what ‘smoke’ is being referred to, then.
By your logic SAF should have been booted out before he got success
Football has moved on massively in the 40 ISH years since Sir Alex was appointed and again for those at the back in his second season he finished 2nd with a big points total that pointed to what was possible under him as well and when he took over he also took us from relegation form to safety
There is no easy answer to this. We need to give Amorim a pre-season I think. If he plays a system, he needs time to drill the players. Is it unreasonable for me to want to see improvements which don't require a brand new starting 11 which we cannot afford? Maybe. Maybe not. Is it fair to say I would like to see improvements so that I know we only need 3-4 players to click? I don't know, because a system only works if all the parts are working together. The easiest type of football is soak and counter-attack, but that is going to leave us needing to buy expensive and fast attackers. What a horrible time to be a United supporter and manager.
It is entirely possible (id honestly say probable) that his formation just won’t ever work in the PL. his reluctance to have a plan B is no longer something to admire. The definition of insanity springs to mind with Amorim.
Indeed it has moved on but unfortunately every manager is still compared to him
Don't worry, we can't judge him till we sell Garnacho and Mainoo to help fund another £200 million spend on Sporting players that fit his system.
Where did you see or smell this smoke?
I saw his latest presser and to me it seems like there is a clear realization between Berrada and him that he is going to have to work under constraints due to our financial situation. Feels like there is a clear understanding that the squad is a total shit show. That they didn't get any replacement for either Antony or Rashford in the winter suggests to me that they don't have any expectations from the season and anything in the cups would be seen as a bonus.
If I have to put my money on it, I feel that he is going to get a summer of transfers and then would be judged accordingly.
The elephant in the room for the summer is still our financial situation
There's not been any real smoke yet.
And while there's not even the money to get anyone in January to replace 3 first team loanees, I dont think there will be any smoke. Unless we're at clear threat from relegation, especially while still in 2 cup comps.
It'd be crucial that we are able to move on the first team players currently on loan. In addition, I think we'll sacrifice one of Mainoo or Garnacho to make PSR room. Then there is Sancho money coming and if we are lucky some big club will buy Greenwood. Those are a lot if's, but if they happen we might have some cash to reinforce 3-4 crucial positions for me.
Also, the sacrifice of 450 ordinary workers should leave us some room. Otherwise, it would be a total waste.
I agree. I just can’t see any scenarios where he’s let go until some point next season, at the earliest.
This is his pre season according to some on here, which why he's getting a free pass. What players he brings in this summer will have to be spot on for us to see improvement apparently. Not only that but more then half of this squad will have to be offloaded based on our current struggles. Very wishful thinking.
The u18 team look like they are playing his system in some games I have seen recently, the u21 can't see it maybe because some players have gone out on loan and some u18 have played. The u21 seem to have a lot of changes in every game.
Well...He was beaten by Glasner's Crystal Palace who play basically the same system. They don't seem to struggle nearly as much using it and they don’t have a great squad.
It is, but there have been worse.
As an 11 year old kid sat in my aunts front room watching a black & white TV screen showing the faces of those players who died and those still in hospital at Munich in 1958. That was desperate and really horrible.
As a 38 year old a regular in the United Paddock, watching us slide down the league in 1974... the "too good to go down" cry still being shouted by some, that was a different kind of desperate and horrible.
I am 'long in the tooth' now so asking me to wait for better days, is perhaps a bit pointless, especially when its beginning to look like a 3-5 year job to even ensure we make a mark as top silverware winners once more. Yet another desperate and horrible situation and not just for me!
However the one glimmer of hope is that watching Sir Jim 'slash and chop' at the finances, at hiring a young manager with a passion for a system, he has already proved can work (albeit in a different league), knowing the two going together will give us a horizon to aim for; 3 years if it all goes well... 5 years if it goes slowly, but to still get us there.
We will bounce back .....Never abandon hope!
I'm dreading this. When push comes to shove, I'd rather keep Garnacho and Mainoo this summer than keep Amorim.
What was the reason behind his 3rd season slump?
Also Glasner came in mid season and changed everything system wise and it worked but don't tell anyone that for god's sake
I don't mean to be a dick but wouldn't you be 26-27 years old if you were born in 1947?
Keep the faith. It might not be a quick or pleasant road back, but hopefully these guys know what they are doing and we can start to turn this ship around.
I really hope we can give our older generation of fans, and Fergie, more success to celebrate.
This thread could be used by evolutionary research groups as a case study for negativity bias.
This ‚Amorim needs a pre-season‘ stuff is nonsense.
The plan was to give Ten Hag 6 windows to rebuild the team, and he was sacked before that because of poor results.
I don‘t know what the current plan is, but I don‘t want to invest in a manager who is 17th since he joined.
- We have been playing Amorim‘s system for months, it was learned after three games
- We don‘t have funds to buy enough players to do a ‚Pep‘ style rebuild and get him an ideal team for his style
The plan was to give Ten Hag 6 windows to rebuild the team, and he was sacked before that because of poor results.
I don‘t know what the current plan is, but I don‘t want to invest in a manager who is 17th since he joined.
So you don't know what the plan is, but chuck it out the window anyway?
I cant see them sacking him. Simply for the reason they would need to pay him off massively , and they almost certainly cant afford to.
Nor should they anyway (in my opinion), they made him come into a mess of club alot earlier than he wanted, knowing he had to implement a new system, (which its clear these players cant play) and have given him absolutely nothing. They have actually told him he needs to sell some of his better academy players to be able to buy.
Cant tie the fella's two hands behind his back and them complain why hes not winning the fight.
Nor should they anyway (in my opinion), they made him come into a mess of club alot earlier than he wanted, knowing he had to implement a new system, (which its clear these players cant play) and have given him absolutely nothing. They have actually told him he needs to sell some of his better academy players to be able to buy.
Cant tie the fella's two hands behind his back and them complain why hes not winning the fight.
Brian Mclair scored a lot less goals, he played a lot more young players like Lee Sharpe and he looked to move on from some of the mainstays of the Atkinson team to mixed results
If Mazraoui plays as RCB, and you play Dorgu and a winger as wingbacks. The system could easily flow into a 4231 or 433 in/out of possession.
With Dalot and Mazraoui as wingbacks, it's just not possible.
With Dalot and Mazraoui as wingbacks, it's just not possible.
Dalot is shit so it's a problem anyway for me.
We just spent £14 million sacking Ten Hag and his staff. Repeating that operation on Amorim 6 months later is not going to make our financial situation any better.
Weak squad essentially and some players who should never have been near the side!
The season he joined that finished 11th was basically the same team that won the FA Cup and won the first 10 games of the previous season and finished 4th, that was basically the team that finished 2nd the next year, afer that it went downhill for 2 seasons finishing 11th and 13th but winning the FA Cup which triggered the start of the success