It’s easier to understand English than hablar espanol, ellos no saben lo q dicen.No lo entendiste
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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I'm not completely absolving ETH of blame, but there were times when the players were also at fault. Just this season, we've seen clear examples where we conceded goals because Garnacho and Rashford failed to track back—ironically, this often happened after they were careless with the ball in the first place. Identifying that as an issue is simple, and when we see it, I refuse to believe ETH and the coaching staff didn't notice it too.
So, the question is: Can Amorim improve this area where ETH struggled? If Amorim also fails to get them to make the necessary improvements, then it’s probably a matter of the players themselves. That's why I believe both the coach and the players share responsibility.
It’s easy for people to say that if players aren’t doing their job, the coach should just drop them. But ETH often preferred Garnacho and Rashford because of the goal threat they offered. Amad is technically a far better player than both of them, but he doesn’t yet offer the same goal-scoring threat. Antony, on the other hand, brings different attributes to the table(retaining possession, higher workrate), but being a goal threat isn't one of them. We seen plenty of occasions where he dropped Rashford but unfortunately, he couldn't drop both of them at the same time.
Nevertheless, I firmly believe that our squad is strong enough to compete for a top 4 finish without any additional signings this season. We should be challenging for the top 4, aiming for 5th place at the very least. If we fail to achieve that, I don't see Amorim as any better than ETH.
Yeah that’s a far cry from talking about “processes” 2 years in after getting embarrassed by yet another decent side.
I’ve said it before but United is far too big of a club to be willing to do some long rebuild. History tells us it’s not necessary at this size, you just need the right manager and to hit on transfers for a couple of years to get back to a very high level. Remains to be seen if we can do so but if Amorims the right guy I think you’ll have signs by the end of the year.
Yup this is how I see it too. First season was all pragmatic football and trying to get results after those first two losses.
The players have to take blame but you IMO majority of the blame goes to Ten Hag and his management of the squad. It was pathetic.
He set a standard that you cannot take the piss, made examples of certain players but when Rashford stepped out of line, he was back in the squad next game, different rules for different players.
This doesn't bode well with players, then he went after the experienced players in Varane and Casemiro, dropped for City game for Evans and then relied on those players.
Amad started the season well, on the right side even scored goals and in pre season was our most impactful forward.. yet the first big game of the season gets dropped. That sends a message to players in the squad that regardless of performances, training, the manager will always stick to Rashford and Garnacho.
Amad was not only a goal threat this season, he was very good at holding the ball and not losing it, something Garnacho and Rashford can only dream of doing.
Do you know how often Garnacho loses the ball or runs into players 1 v 1, I dont recall the last time he actually went past a player.
Then they dont track, yet they play every game. Same with Hojlund, plays every game when fit whilst stinking up the place.
Hopefully Amorim gives players a chance based on their performnces and not on their name / contract situation.
Can't remember exactly how the question was framed, but how is that out to get him?
His answer, in fairness, was quite good too - "I believe in the players until they prove me wrong"
Watching the interview with Neville and he's such a great speaker. The way he elaborates on things and caveats it to avoid potentially being misquoted, etc.. is brilliant. Especially considering it's not his native language.
Love it. Done everything right so far.
Love it. Done everything right so far.
Hojlund was injured in the early part of the season and the left back situation plagued him in his second season and the start of this season. ETH left a better situation than he started with so hopefully Amorim can implement his ideas quickly.
True but it's all true that these sort of miracles tend to happen whenever a new united manager comes in
Again whos fault was it? Who made the decision to play Hojlund after barely any pre season in a pre season friendly?
I agree on the situation, the clubs is not in a toxic situation that he found the club in.
The player pool is better imo too, from what Ten Hag picked up.
Yoro came to us with that injury. Whole post is just another agenda diatribe. And you are right about Ten Hag
Eth was in control of the standards, he allowed them to be so low, the blame ends at him.
At least if the anti ETH extremists continue to beat the dead horse, they are harmlessly occupied. Maybe they might leave the new guy a bit of breathing space awhile.
Having seen the interview with Gary Neville, one thing is very clear to me - the man has total clarity in vision and has the communication skills needed to bring a group together and work towards it.
He speaks of how our players aren't fit enough to play the high press at the levels Erik was trying to make them play. This explains one thing. When we press high, and then we lose the ball, most of the team has no legs to react to it. This is squarely on conditioning and I can't fathom how Erik hasn't been able to raise these levels when it was such an important part of his plan. I suppose last year so much of the squad was unfit for so long that, as a group, he was unable to build that fitness. But that has leaked into this year and it has resulted in disaster.
Our players are not as fit as those of City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Brighton. Amorim then explains how the combination of lack of elite fitness and poor possession control combine to us having disastrous consequences. This makes total sense for United this season.
In such a short time, he has effectively communicated what is wrong and what needs fixing. He stresses that it's not about 4 or 5 at the back, that it's about principles and values. Ten Hag had this thought too, but he couldn't convince his players to follow him. This is where I hope Ruben can thrive. This part will make or break his tenure.
He speaks of how our players aren't fit enough to play the high press at the levels Erik was trying to make them play. This explains one thing. When we press high, and then we lose the ball, most of the team has no legs to react to it. This is squarely on conditioning and I can't fathom how Erik hasn't been able to raise these levels when it was such an important part of his plan. I suppose last year so much of the squad was unfit for so long that, as a group, he was unable to build that fitness. But that has leaked into this year and it has resulted in disaster.
Our players are not as fit as those of City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Brighton. Amorim then explains how the combination of lack of elite fitness and poor possession control combine to us having disastrous consequences. This makes total sense for United this season.
In such a short time, he has effectively communicated what is wrong and what needs fixing. He stresses that it's not about 4 or 5 at the back, that it's about principles and values. Ten Hag had this thought too, but he couldn't convince his players to follow him. This is where I hope Ruben can thrive. This part will make or break his tenure.
I think it’s more the way it was asked.
“so, you don’t think this is an impossible job?”
Amorim: “of course not”
Top man and top attitude, can't wait to watch us under him which is something I haven't felt in well over a year and a half
Amorim: “of course not”
Top man and top attitude, can't wait to watch us under him which is something I haven't felt in well over a year and a half
I love that he’s looking at it from our point of view. We’re excited but on the other hand we know we’ve been here before.
Amorim is in a different position than any other coach post SAF, not only does he have a new and seemingly improved structure above and around him, he is coming in on the back of probably the worst 18 months post SAF inn terms of performance and results, I don't why I said probably it is definitely the worst 18 months post SAF and that is despite winning 2 trophies in this period, those are anomalies.
Every other manager post SAF has come in part way on the downward curve and has enjoyed new manager bounce and 12 months of relative success (not including Moyes in this nor Ragnick as they are unique circumstances), Amorim comes in at what is hopefully the bottom of the trough.
Right man, right place, right time, maybe! because really he can only go up from where we are and have been, he has almost a clean page, he can tear it up and start afresh, no other manager has had that opportunity, all Amorim has to achieve, this season at least is:
I have confidence.
Every other manager post SAF has come in part way on the downward curve and has enjoyed new manager bounce and 12 months of relative success (not including Moyes in this nor Ragnick as they are unique circumstances), Amorim comes in at what is hopefully the bottom of the trough.
Right man, right place, right time, maybe! because really he can only go up from where we are and have been, he has almost a clean page, he can tear it up and start afresh, no other manager has had that opportunity, all Amorim has to achieve, this season at least is:
- Score more goals
- Improve the style of play
- Increase our control in games
- Finish higher than 8th
I have confidence.
It doesn't take an elite tactician to see that poor ball retention and poor conditioning are our two biggest issues. The question is can it be fixed with this group of players or do we just need new players.
You might see things differently. ETH did punish Rashford too when he was out of line. To me, they were appropriate punishments for offenses. I don’t buy into the narrative that ETH treated any of the players differently. Amad started in 9 out of the 16 games this season, which I see as normal rotation, with ETH preferring different players depending on the opposition and our players' strengths this season.
Before the PAOK game, Amad had only scored 1 goal this season, so it’s hard to label him as a consistent goal threat. He’s competing alongside Rashford and Garnacho, each offering different qualities, but none of them has done enough to warrant being an automatic starter. As I acknowledged already in my previous post, Amad is miles better techinically than both Garnacho and Rashford but I don't think he's a goal threat. Atleast not yet.
However, Amad has shown a better end product in his last two games—scoring 2 goals against PAOK and providing 1 assist against Leicester. Hopefully, he can keep up that form, and from here on, it’s up to him to make himself undroppable.
I really hope Amorim has what it takes to motivate the players and get them to perform consistently, while also coaching them to improve. I felt ETH fell short in both of those areas. Take your point about Hojlund, for example—I’m excited to see how he performs under Amorim. He has all the raw attributes to be a player similar to Gyokeres in my view. If Amorim was able to coach Gyokeres into the player he is today after bringing him up from the Championship, then surely he should be able to do something similar with Hojlund as well.
Even his answer about the two and a half year contract was spot on. It's not long enough to fix everything but it's plenty of time to see if he's working out and things are going in the right direction.
Fantastic interview with Gary, he's very clear and confident. Hopefully it translates onto the pitch on Sunday.
Perhaps I am reading too much into it and obviously the contexts are different.
Maybe a reach here, but I have always felt a team embodies its manager, taking on their personality. We've seen this with Pep, Klopp, Conte, Jose even Poch, Emery, Tuchel, Arteta.... could go on. Just looking at the way he speaks is definitely not enough, but I do think it plays a part. The coach is leading you daily - you're going to hear his voice a lot and you're going to take on some of his personality.
Ten Hag spoke in a jittery way. I am not insulting him, but it is generally true. I can see that, over time, having an anxious effect on the team. Which makes sense because 'anxious' perfectly described our time under Ten Hag (post 1st season).
The way Amorim speaks, he is calm but also confident without being arrogant. I hope the team takes these traits on themselves. It's early doors, but it is promising. It's not by coincidence all of the best managers are also assured, inspirational speakers.
I'm not sure what your point is? All I'm saying is Amorim can say those things in these press conferences, I'll wait until he get the players to actually show it on the pitch. If Garnacho and Rashford fail to track back and he's forced into picking them due to lack of other decent options or injuries or whatever, do we blame another coach in Amorim too for letting the standards slip?
As I keep saying, it's both. Players also have the responsibility to maintain their standards. Shouldn't always need someone else to keep reminding them.
Love him already - comes across really well across all his interviews and saying the right things. I believe in him. He can get his message very well across the players.
Just saw the interview with Nev and the press confrence. After twelve years of has beens and clowns it finally feels good to have a proper manager at the helm. It's very out of character for me to bowled over by someone before they have even managed a single game for us, but I feel confident about this guy. His answers in both the interview and the presser were perfect.
He has come in at the right time and can assess the squad without too much pressure for the rest of the season. He believes in his way of coaching and it seems sticking to those principles is non-negotiable for him. I am sure he'll be far more practical when it comes to different games. However, it is important that the basic principles remain consistent.
I am ready for the Ruben Amorim era. Let's go!
He has come in at the right time and can assess the squad without too much pressure for the rest of the season. He believes in his way of coaching and it seems sticking to those principles is non-negotiable for him. I am sure he'll be far more practical when it comes to different games. However, it is important that the basic principles remain consistent.
I am ready for the Ruben Amorim era. Let's go!
Not to insult him either, but to add to that bolded part, I actually never felt like anyone ever had an organic conversation with ETH as Neville already had with Ruben. Maybe I'm wrong and didn't watch enough interviews, but it seemed he was almost listing off sound bites, rarely going into full details as opposed to actually having a conversation. It really makes me wonder how he was in his initial interview for the job, and how he blew anyone away.
He talks the talk for sure, hopefully with the backing of Ashworth and Wilcox he'll finally be able to dispense of the bad eggs and build a competitive team again.
I fecking love that he’s said he doesn’t have the players to play his system but he’s going to play it anyway.
WE GO FOR IT
WE GO FOR IT
Watching his interview right now and I think I've developed a mancrush on him. He's such a fantastic speaker.
I agree, but Eth was not forced into it, he had options.
That's what Klopp & Pep did when they walked in at Liverpool & City respectively. And then they added the necessary pieces to the puzzle in the following windows to create winning teams.
I think we have a potentially world class team but we've been poorly coached.
I don't think we need 3 windows and another 500 million, I think we need a clear system and the right coach and we'll be competing.
Our squad isn't worse than Arsenal or Liverpool, I believe that. What we have is no clarity for years, Klopp had his system and the way of play so well integrated that it's automatic now. Slot has benefited from that.
We have a young solid core of players. Plenty to be excited about. I think top 4 is achievable. If Villa can do it under Emery then we can get there under Amorim with a better squad
I don't think we need 3 windows and another 500 million, I think we need a clear system and the right coach and we'll be competing.
Our squad isn't worse than Arsenal or Liverpool, I believe that. What we have is no clarity for years, Klopp had his system and the way of play so well integrated that it's automatic now. Slot has benefited from that.
We have a young solid core of players. Plenty to be excited about. I think top 4 is achievable. If Villa can do it under Emery then we can get there under Amorim with a better squad
Ah, I see how you read my comment. You thought that I meant that we didn't have problem playing out from the back, but it's not what I meant - I meant "recycling" the ball between CBs and GK was never an issue for us because the opponent wanted them to have the ball and just blocked the midfield/attacking players (that's why we always go long or out wide, that's been the case for years).
Adding one more CB will not make it easier, especially since we don't have any CBs that can drive the ball forward. Therefore, I see this as our weakness in 343. The poster I was replying to said having 3 at the back will help us in buildup, I asked why and still didn't get an answer.
Did anyone notice that he called Jose a dinosaur without saying as such?
He's the best personality we had post Fergie imo. He's young, charismatic, and says all the right things. Apart from Mourinho, all the other managers were a bit dull, and Mourinho was too toxic for his own good by the time he got here. Amorim feels like the right manager at the right time. It remains to be seen if that can be translated to the pitch or not. But I believe if he can show us just signs of where we could be, he'll be backed by the fans and the club. He's the kind of personality that everyone would love to have at the club.
I’m excited about Amorim but I think we have to accept reality. I’m sure he does too.
We're pretty underwhelming in attack but the rest of the team has great potential.