Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

NotChatGPT said:
You don’t think we had drilling patters and a style in training, no matter who was available, under ETH?

At the end, there’s no doubt that the right decision was to sack Ten Hag, but i’m not sure why some are pretending that everything we’re doing under Amorim is a fecking evolution compared to what we’ve been doing in the past. I suppose the only thing he doesn’t do is shit the essence of Tom Ford perfume.
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It is quite hilarious to read. So far we've seen a 7 minute video of Amorim doing training, there is nothing in that training video that was mind blowing. He's just drilling them in his 3 4 3 formation. Pretty standard coaching that all coaches do for how they want to play. There is this weird rewriting of history going on with Ten Hag, which I get as a lot of people seem to have been upset with him. However, if you browse any of the threads at the beginning of Ten Hags reign you can pretty much take the quotes from fans on here about Amorim, replace Amorim for Ten Hag and you'll see the same quotes. Finally we have a manager that will actually coach, finally we have a modern manager, finally we have a manager with a proven style of play etc etc etc.

It will be a fun ride with Amorim, as it generally is with a new manager (finally after Moyes we have a technical manager in LVG, finally after LVG we have a winner in Mourinho, finally after Mourinho we have a manager that gets the players in Ole, finally after Ole we have modern manager who won't just be their friend and have good vibes, finally after ole we have a manager who the players will like). For me, I'm hoping Amorim can deliver where EtH and the previous managers couldn't. However, that is tempered by the fact the we are still reliant on the likes of Rashford who will post about how great training is now and likely in a few games there will be clips of him jogging about again. There is a loottttt of work still to do with this squad. I have faith in Amorim though, as I had faith in EtH when he first joined us.
 
romufc said:
I can see both sides to this.

1. Change is exciting.. so when fans see a clip, we get excited, if we hadn't seen that clip, we would be asking "what do they do in training". I have seen alot of fans say on youtube say.. all we did under Ten Hag was rondos.. well that is true because that's all you were allowed to see. What is true is we have no idea what they train on. It would be naïve to think Ten Hag didn't have proper training sessions.

2. Ten Hag did make excuses saying we cant play a certain style without certain players. I remember in S1 he did say we cant play a certain way because Martial wasn't fit.
What we have seen from Amorim session is him using the same system, regardless of players. So, its more players fit the system rather than system to fit players.

Ten Hag was more a tailor the system to suit players but that doesn't work. He then lost his way and ended up with a blend of systems to suit players.. Counter attack to suit Rashford, low block to suit our defence, High press because that is what he wants.
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Different managers different perspectives. Martial had the ability to hold up the ball to allow us to move forward, when he wasn’t completely crocked that is. Rashford doesn’t have the strength or ability on the ball to do that, he’s more or less there to finish attacks rather than being a cog. So yeah, i think it’s fair enough to state that we had to adjust our style according to who was available up top under Ten Hag.

Just as i’d expect an «adjustment» quote from Amorim if we’re forced to play without Rashford and Højlund.

Doesn’t really matter, all we can hope for is a promising start and that we’ll continue to build on it, but fans are still taking the piss.
 
romufc said:
So, its more players fit the system rather than system to fit players.

Ten Hag was more a tailor the system to suit players but that doesn't work.
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This is too simplistic an analysis, and also wrong. One of Ten Hag's biggest faults was sticking to his "system" that didnt get the best out of the players. Things like inverting fullbacks, high press and touchline wingers didnt suit our squad, yet he insisted with it.

Someone like Ancelotti will play to the players strengths. Someone like Pep will be sticking to his philosophy. Different styles, both top managers.

We have to hope Amorim is adaptable enough. Its all about balance.
 
DJ_21 said:
Amorim is already doing something that ETH use to use as an excuse. He’s drilling patterns and a style in training with half a squad. ETH use to always say we won’t play well or have patterns of play whilst we have injuries. Looking forward to seeing which winger he’ll transform into a wing back. Looking likely Antony. We’ll see one winger and one defender on the other side.
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I think a fair few players will have a go at wingback. It's an intensive role to the point that Amorim's first sub at Sporting was almost always one (or both) of the wide two.
 
You are correct.
And - you may be suprised - another typical substitution he made was one or both (R/L)CB. Putting in faster players or players that link better with the attack
 
Rolaholic said:
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Interesting if true, I do think that while we have options for the forward positions, it's somewhat up in the air who takes the two no.10 positions long term. I actually don't think it's all that suited to Bruno. I think profile wise, Mount and Amad fit the bill the best, though there are fitness (and performance questions) against Mount and we're yet to see how highly he even rates Amad.

I think it's similar with the midfield. There are some decent options but I don't think the balance is quite there with any of the pairings. Any pair that includes Casemiro needs to recognise that we shouldn't be overly reliant on Casemiro over the next season or two. It then comes down to what type of midfielder Amorim see's Kobbie as. While different profiles, he could be seen as an alternative to Ugarte rather than a partner. I think for it to be a successful partnership, he'd have to mould Kobbie in being the deeper out of the two midfielders (e.g. Jorginho = Kobbie and Ugarte = Kante). I think Kobbie has quite a lot to offer from a more advanced perspective and he'd be better off being paired with someone more like Casemiro than Ugarte.
 
NotChatGPT said:
You don’t think we had drilling patters and a style in training, no matter who was available, under ETH?

At the end, there’s no doubt that the right decision was to sack Ten Hag, but i’m not sure why some are pretending that everything we’re doing under Amorim is a fecking evolution compared to what we’ve been doing in the past. I suppose the only thing he doesn’t do is shit the essence of Tom Ford perfume.
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Well I’m just going of what we seen on match days. Obviously we’re yet to see a match under Amorim. I doubt Amorim will make excuse after excuse though when we pick up injuries.
 
saivet said:
Interesting if true, I do think that while we have options for the forward positions, it's somewhat up in the air who takes the two no.10 positions long term. I actually don't think it's all that suited to Bruno. I think profile wise, Mount and Amad fit the bill the best, though there are fitness (and performance questions) against Mount and we're yet to see how highly he even rates Amad.

I think it's similar with the midfield. There are some decent options but I don't think the balance is quite there with any of the pairings. Any pair that includes Casemiro needs to recognise that we shouldn't be overly reliant on Casemiro over the next season or two. It then comes down to what type of midfielder Amorim see's Kobbie as. While different profiles, he could be seen as an alternative to Ugarte rather than a partner. I think for it to be a successful partnership, he'd have to mould Kobbie in being the deeper out of the two midfielders (e.g. Jorginho = Kobbie and Ugarte = Kante). I think Kobbie has quite a lot to offer from a more advanced perspective and he'd be better off being paired with someone more like Casemiro than Ugarte.
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Initially he has to start with a midfield (including wingbacks) four of Mazraoui, Casemiro, Ugarte and Dalot. Make the team solid, get the unspectacular but solid results to set himself up in a new league. Then slowly start to loosen up to play more expansively as he gets accustomed to the league.

I think the midfield will end up settling with Ugarte and Mainoo but now we need Casemiro in there for his unheralded but effective creativity, goal threat at setpeices and experience. Mainoo can be restricted to cameos for a few weeks and then take over later once the team is settled and on an upward trajectory.
 
didz said:
I think a fair few players will have a go at wingback. It's an intensive role to the point that Amorim's first sub at Sporting was almost always one (or both) of the wide two.
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What I like about that aswell is if we’re chasing a goal we can stick one of the attacking players from the bench in that role so we could end up with 5 attackers on the pitch.
 
saivet said:
Interesting if true, I do think that while we have options for the forward positions, it's somewhat up in the air who takes the two no.10 positions long term. I actually don't think it's all that suited to Bruno. I think profile wise, Mount and Amad fit the bill the best, though there are fitness (and performance questions) against Mount and we're yet to see how highly he even rates Amad.

I think it's similar with the midfield. There are some decent options but I don't think the balance is quite there with any of the pairings. Any pair that includes Casemiro needs to recognise that we shouldn't be overly reliant on Casemiro over the next season or two. It then comes down to what type of midfielder Amorim see's Kobbie as. While different profiles, he could be seen as an alternative to Ugarte rather than a partner. I think for it to be a successful partnership, he'd have to mould Kobbie in being the deeper out of the two midfielders (e.g. Jorginho = Kobbie and Ugarte = Kante). I think Kobbie has quite a lot to offer from a more advanced perspective and he'd be better off being paired with someone more like Casemiro than Ugarte.
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Amorim's idea of the perfect midfielder is Busqutes or Xavi Alonso. A cerebral DM. It's what a lot of fans have been asking for, for years. You need one to partner Kobbie / Ugarte. Will be interesting to see who he targets for that role next summer.
 
Adrian Bernabe type of midfielder would be interesting, the quality metronome* type Defensive midfielders are so highly rated, that they are almost impossible to find. I don't know who we have in the academy play those roles atm, Gore? Or does is play more attacking?
 
dinostar77 said:
Amorim's idea of the perfect midfielder is Busqutes or Xavi Alonso. A cerebral DM. It's what a lot of fans have been asking for, for years. You need one to partner Kobbie / Ugarte. Will be interesting to see who he targets for that role next summer.
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Yeah I am intrigued to see who he targets for that, do people think we need another creative CM when Eriksen leaves in the summer?
 
croadyman said:
Yeah I am intrigued to see who he targets for that, do people think we need another creative CM when Eriksen leaves in the summer?
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In my view, no. Assuming Casemiro sticks around, we would have Casemiro, Mainoo and Ugarte for two positions. We would probably need one more there. That player could potentially be provided by the academy in the form of Kone or Fitzgerald. Should we deem neither to be currently good enough or ready (quite likely), we could sign a more experienced, defensive minded player as opposed to someone stylistically similar to Eriksen. If we were looking for more of a technical central midfielder for depth, then Jim Thwaites could potentially be given a shot. Perhaps Chris Rigg will be pursued?

If viewing Eriksen as a more attack minded midfielder, we could look to sign someone like Nypan, though like I say, he'd be an option for one of the number 10 positions. Ibragimov could become an option in a couple of years time too.
 
After ages I am excited for a United match. Like I’ve been transported back to 2007-08 season!

Sunday can’t come soon enough. Thank you Ruben, you energy has already rubbed off on me.
 
Smashin said:
The only stand out was Slimani, which was rumored (rumor since Amorim never openly talked about it) to slack in training and not follow the nutritional plans. In less then a full year he was progressively dropped off the squad, moved to B team and then released from contract.

He wants and expects every player to give 100%, if you dont instead players like Esgaio (quite poor player even for Sporting standards) but always does his (limited) best get alot of chances.

He will never talk about refs, always but always defend his players and assume the responsibility for everything that does not go well.
Doesn't go over the board with praising players though, he's cautious about it, sort of "he did really well but knows the player has quality to do this or that better".
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Thanks for commenting. So with that said, do you see any players in the current United team that could fall short in terms of giving the 100% that Amorim craves for? If you could pick 3? Or maybe you think they'll all get on board....

Interesting, I thought Eth was pretty staunch in protecting his players too and taking accountablity, but at times he appeared delusional in talking up very poor performances, protecting players who didnt give 100%. Still selecting them without seeing improvement. Players not reciprocating his faith shown in them.
 
dinostar77 said:
Amorim's idea of the perfect midfielder is Busqutes or Xavi Alonso. A cerebral DM. It's what a lot of fans have been asking for, for years. You need one to partner Kobbie / Ugarte. Will be interesting to see who he targets for that role next summer.
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Interesting... where have you got that from? So his team 3 years ago was Ugarte and Nunes

The current team was Hjulmand and Morita and none of them are Busquets / Alonso type players.

Kobbie / Ugarte are 2 opposite profiles so how can we need someone to partner both?
 
romufc said:
Interesting... where have you got that from? So his team 3 years ago was Ugarte and Nunes

The current team was Hjulmand and Morita and none of them are Busquets / Alonso type players.

Kobbie / Ugarte are 2 opposite profiles so how can we need someone to partner both?
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Yeah I must admit that, that wasn’t quite my understanding either (Busquets, Alonso type preference). Of course no one would say no if offered anyone near the quality of either of those, but Amorim seems adaptable when it comes to that midfield profile, albeit one DM plus someone else little more box to box. Both fairly mobile.
 
Ish said:
Yeah I must admit that, that wasn’t quite my understanding either (Busquets, Alonso type preference). Of course no one would say no if offered anyone near the quality of either of those, but Amorim seems adaptable when it comes to that midfield profile, albeit one DM plus someone else little more box to box. Both fairly mobile.
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Yeah, the thing is Busquets and Alonso were different players too, just because they played midfield and were the best in their position. Busquets and Rodri are more similar than Alonso and Busquets.

In a way, isn't Kobbie more like Busquets than Alonso? In that he can receive the ball in almost any position and get out the press. Kobbie is our most press resistant player we have.

On your last sentence, that is exactly what I thought Amorim plays, because Busquets or Rodri are not the most mobile of players, whereas Amorim wants real running power, which is why Ugarte did so well for him in the high press rather than a DM.
 
Ish said:
Yeah I must admit that, that wasn’t quite my understanding either (Busquets, Alonso type preference). Of course no one would say no if offered anyone near the quality of either of those, but Amorim seems adaptable when it comes to that midfield profile, albeit one DM plus someone else little more box to box. Both fairly mobile.
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Somebody described Alonso and Busquets as "cerebral" earlier I think. But they were real bastards when they needed to be too. Xavi Alonso could be absolutely brutal in challenges especially; it just gets forgotten about.

I imagine Amorim just highlighted the pair as being pretty complete midfielders when asked the question. Players who can contribute big time in and out of possession - who wouldn't want that in the engine room?
 
Bo_devil said:
Thanks for commenting. So with that said, do you see any players in the current United team that could fall short in terms of giving the 100% that Amorim craves for? If you could pick 3? Or maybe you think they'll all get on board....

Interesting, I thought Eth was pretty staunch in protecting his players too and taking accountablity, but at times he appeared delusional in talking up very poor performances, protecting players who didnt give 100%. Still selecting them without seeing improvement. Players not reciprocating his faith shown in them.
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It's complicated.
personally I don't think it was Slimani's lack of commitment in training per se, but that combined with his expectation of starting when Amorim felt he didn't deserve it, AND using the people around him (his agent and Algerian press+national team) to push the narrative that he was being punished despite his game performances.

Amorim wants team players, players that do what's best for the team, not for themselves. He doesn't like guys that put their ego in front of what the team needs, and the team/club goals.
Therefore, while he won't come out and belittle any of his players, if you don't perform according to his parameters, you'll be let go. His main focus is to protect the group and the team as a whole.
 
romufc said:
Yeah, the thing is Busquets and Alonso were different players too, just because they played midfield and were the best in their position. Busquets and Rodri are more similar than Alonso and Busquets.

In a way, isn't Kobbie more like Busquets than Alonso? In that he can receive the ball in almost any position and get out the press. Kobbie is our most press resistant player we have.

On your last sentence, that is exactly what I thought Amorim plays, because Busquets or Rodri are not the most mobile of players, whereas Amorim wants real running power, which is why Ugarte did so well for him in the high press rather than a DM.
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Yeah, agreed. Will be interesting to see how our midfield shapes us in the next 1-2 years under Amorim, but I’d say long term it’s probably Ugarte and Mainoo - Casemiro might continue playing next to Ugarte if his good form this season continues.

didz said:
Somebody described Alonso and Busquets as "cerebral" earlier I think. But they were real bastards when they needed to be too. Xavi Alonso could be absolutely brutal in challenges especially; it just gets forgotten about.

I imagine Amorim just highlighted the pair as being pretty complete midfielders when asked the question. Players who can contribute big time in and out of possession - who wouldn't want that in the engine room?
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Absolutely. Like i said, it doesn’t matter the manager (Jose, Klopp etc) but if offered a player at that quality, they’ll make a way to incorporate them into their team. Their skill level is just that high.
 
The Firestarter said:
This sounds great but Sporting doesn't really have "franchise", "brand" or whatever the last word is for players that are commercially important to the club. I just don't see it going well at all if he does something similar to, say, Rashy.
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I don't think what you are suggesting is a thing at United, or most football clubs around. Managers aren't pressured to regularly play "commercially important" players.
 
romufc said:
Interesting... where have you got that from? So his team 3 years ago was Ugarte and Nunes

The current team was Hjulmand and Morita and none of them are Busquets / Alonso type players.

Kobbie / Ugarte are 2 opposite profiles so how can we need someone to partner both?
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Interview earlier this week with Portuguese journalist who spoke in depth about amorim. I did link it a few pages back yesterday.
 
Plant0x84 said:
If you look at it side on then a back 3 of Martinez deLigt and Casemiro makes more sense, but Onana and Hojlund on the flanks is an interesting call and Ugarte in goal isn’t why we signed him! :lol:
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If you look from other side then Mainoo is in goal and Amad, Rashford and Dalot are back three
 
Lu Tze said:
He's doing well to be extremely warm, it's fecking freezing in the North West right now!
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My thoughts exactly. Give me some Ruben to warm me up!! On a serious note though he does seem like a very decent and likeable guy.
 
The Firestarter said:
Nothing wrong with being a bit naive mate.
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Can you give any examples, then, from the past, where you think this has happened at United, then?

ETH benched Ronaldo many times, I think Rangnick did too. Ole as well. The only thing I remember is Ferguson saying in an interview that "you should always play your best players" when Ronaldo was on the bench for a league game, if I remember correctly. But that's hardly evidence for what you are suggesting.

We've also seen Martial get benched several times, despite apparently being Joel Glazer's favorite player.

Ole played a McFred double pivot over Pogba in the middle of the pitch.

ETH binned De Gea, by all means a big name, one of the biggest among goalkeepers at the time.

And all this was under the previous regime. Can you imagine Berrada, Ashworth, etc. heading to Amorim's office to complain about a player not getting enough playtime, and that it needs to change because they're "commercially important" to the club?
 
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