Yeah sort of reminds me of the very first footage of Fergie in the red Sharp Electronics jumper
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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Yeah sort of reminds me of the very first footage of Fergie in the red Sharp Electronics jumper
Maybe the whole problem with ETH was that his English wasnty very good so the players didnt understand him.
Ipswich is looking at that video and taking notes.
Or maybe he set up his team to play like it's a game of volleyball.
It's a grand total of maybe 3 current starters at a push that can't run back. Amad, Garnacho, Bruno, Ugarte, Mazraoui, the CBs (who usually play almost all their football in one half of the pitch), Dalot, Mount, Højlund, Kobbie, Antony, even big uncle Casemiro all have shown great inclination to run back and recover the ball.
Dalot has shown he has a great motor on him but may sometimes lose concentration and Casemiro when being tasked to cover the pitch has sometimes been slow to react, but under Ruud in a more compact system, he got around the pitch fine in attack and defence.
Kobbie runs out of gas early but that will naturally improve as he develops physically.
Where's the squad overhaul needed for non physically capable players?
I think bad habits have just crept in for some of the players.
Eriksen obviously can't but is not a regular starter, neither is Shaw (another who can't) right now but I suspect his future may be at CB.
Rashford looks like he won't, but I don't know if he can't, Zirkzee is another one that looks dodgy physically but going by his stats in Italy, it may just be a catching up to the speed of the league issue.
I wouldn't call selling these four an overhaul, considering only Rashford is currently considered a recent automatic starter.
Does it surprise anyone that they are having to be told, our players are in need of a massive reprogramming.
Without the ability to blockOr score points.
His Dutch wasn't exactly highly thought of at Ajax either.
This is simply because you don’t have the necessary coaching levels and so don’t know what hubah hubah means.
It’s really quite revealing.
The only stand out was Slimani, which was rumored (rumor since Amorim never openly talked about it) to slack in training and not follow the nutritional plans. In less then a full year he was progressively dropped off the squad, moved to B team and then released from contract.
He wants and expects every player to give 100%, if you dont instead players like Esgaio (quite poor player even for Sporting standards) but always does his (limited) best get alot of chances.
He will never talk about refs, always but always defend his players and assume the responsibility for everything that does not go well.
Doesn't go over the board with praising players though, he's cautious about it, sort of "he did really well but knows the player has quality to do this or that better".
This sounds great but Sporting doesn't really have "franchise", "brand" or whatever the last word is for players that are commercially important to the club. I just don't see it going well at all if he does something similar to, say, Rashy.
- Mount had one fairly serious injury that required surgery and cost him the final three months of the season before joining us. Other than that, he'd had barely any injury problems at all. Indeed if we look at his four seasons at Chelsea there is only one player in our entire squad (Bruno obviously) that could beat him for availability. Including internationals he played 225 games in those four seasons (which includes the three months that he missed before joining us). Unless there were complications from that injury or surgery, we would have had good reason to expect Mount would be one of the most reliable players fitness-wise in the squad.
- Yep, this one is completely fair.
- ETH went into last season intending to play two attacking midfielders. Hence we needed another one to play next to Bruno, which is why we bought Mount. Then when he got injured McTominay played that role instead, which was very obvious considering it was very different from how McTominay had ever played for us before. Then eventually Mainoo took over, and he also played more as an attacking midfielder rather than a central midfielder.
Only having 12 months left on his contract does indicate we overpaid a bit, plus the fact he was coming off an injury did mean there's always a bit of risk (although it would have been seen as a low risk). But it's not as bad as people make out.
ETH changed back to only one attacking midfielder this season which would have meant there was no place for him, but now that we're presumably going to a 3421 formation there might be a spot next to Bruno up for grabs. Really depends on what profile Amorim wants for that role, with Amad, Garnacho, Rashford and perhaps Mainoo and Zirkzee also being options there. But if Mount can get over his injury issues, he has a fairly strong chance of claiming a regular starting spot (if not being in the strongest 11). Of course, staying fit seems to be unlikely at the moment unfortunately.
That is true, ownership plays a big role in that and that's the downside of not being fan owned, profits first. But in general i don't think any manager can do well if they aren't well supported from the higher ups.
Similar but on a different scale but if a, lets say a 10M player doesnt do well in a club like Sporting managers do get alot of slack and pressure. Every million counts with a shorter budget.
On a personal note i believe if United wants to do better it has to stop being a "public job", as in once you sign up you get such inflated wages that you end up staying for year and years, renewing contracts without accountability since no other club can afford that and that makes the player(s) slack by example, its human nature.
But i'm pretty sure if Rashford doesnt give 100% in training he wont play.
People write their own lore and mythos for the club. Where’s this indication that Rashford’s a “franchise”/“brand” player and that things would go awry for the manager if he was dropped, even coming from?
He’s been dropped before. The new leadership have reiterated often how they’re set-up to support the coach and Amorim is their man. Speaking of Amorim, he’s also said United’s current circumstances is one of the things he wanted because it allows him to do things his way.
People see Rashford in the line-up and come up with conspiracy theories for his inclusion - when in reality - despite his poor performances overall - he’s one of them players that can come up with key moments - as evidenced earlier this season in games where he was rubbish but created one or two key chances - and sometimes managers just gamble on those.
He’s been dropped before. The new leadership have reiterated often how they’re set-up to support the coach and Amorim is their man. Speaking of Amorim, he’s also said United’s current circumstances is one of the things he wanted because it allows him to do things his way.
People see Rashford in the line-up and come up with conspiracy theories for his inclusion - when in reality - despite his poor performances overall - he’s one of them players that can come up with key moments - as evidenced earlier this season in games where he was rubbish but created one or two key chances - and sometimes managers just gamble on those.
You do realise they say this because it suits their narrative?
Its up to the manager to drop Rashford if he feels he cannot do the job he wants him to.
There is no way anyone in the hierarchy will be telling our manager, you have to play Rashford. It is the coaches choice.
Amorim would have got assurances that it is his way of doing things, probably clarified with the hierarchy "If I dont rate x player, will I be force to play him"
At the end of the day, it all comes to winning football matches. No one will care who is playing or not if we win.
Great PE teacher this guy Amorim.
Yes, I do realise it - hence “write their own lore and mythos”.
You’re essentially saying the same I’ve said.
That's a pretty accurate description. Too many perpetuate that we need to play with fast pacey wingers but we need the spirit which is never say die and be attacking.
That's actually an incredibly politically astute statement. Completely agree.
So… Sack Fergie sell Giggs?
I have to say, I like his energy and demeanour most out of all of our previous managers since SAF. We've needed that injection of youth & energy at the club for a while.
I just hope, he doesn't get dragged into public catfights with players or the media for no reason. I don't want another Ronaldo or Sancho saga - though the Ronaldo one was not Ten Hag's fault, I hope everyone at the club is just keen to stay drama free.
I just hope, he doesn't get dragged into public catfights with players or the media for no reason. I don't want another Ronaldo or Sancho saga - though the Ronaldo one was not Ten Hag's fault, I hope everyone at the club is just keen to stay drama free.
Not sure where Fergie’s shadow comes into play.
We failed to continue improving due to Fergies ability, we were far too dependent on the manager being more than just a manager, at a time where other clubs were modernizing the way they were set up and turned the traditional manager role into more of a coach role. Good luck changing that while Fergie was running things, and considering how well we were being rund under Fergie it’s not like a lot of people thought there was much reason to change our entire footballing structure. In a perfect world, we would’ve have done a complete overhaul of the footballing structure when Fergie retired. The squad he left was good, but with key players past their peak. We went from manager to manager in an attempt at finding someone that could fill the void Fergie left, while losing the remaining bit of identity we had along the way.
I think we would’ve done a lot better if we’d managed to get Mourinho instead of Moyes, he would’ve been a lot more suited to the handling the issues and getting the best out of the players we had, which was a squad of winners.
Sancho wasn’t Ten Hags fault either.
We seem to have got rid of most of the players who thought they are bigger than the club.
Rashford is the last one that creates huge divide but I suspect that the hierarchy understand this and will back the manager.
He seems to have a good relationship with all his players and also uses quite alot of his squad. This is what happens when you have a coach that coaches a system.
Its like Brighton, they can sell all their players and still play the same way, when one player comes out and another comes in, they fulfil the same purpose in the team.
Even at his sporting team, he lost alot of players and uses the subs often and there is no difference in how the team plays.
Isn’t the entire point ref Brighton that you have a clear idea about how you want to play, and you scout/sign players according to that, and hire managers according to that idea.
Fingers crossed we’re off to a good start. I think people underestimate the importance of starting in a positive way and how it creates belief and a bit of confidence in a new system, rather than the coach/manager/whatever you call it struggles to get the players to pull in the same direction.
Agreed, which is what we want to create.
Also, your second point is spot on.. I have seen so many fans say.. we will back Amorim regardless, he needs time, players are X,Y,Z. Whilst that might be true, when you hire an elite coach, you expect instant impact.
We have to win against Ipswich.. To create a belief, to buy him some time. I think he understands that because in his interview he did say.. to get time you need to buy time, which you can only do by winning games.
Amorim is already doing something that ETH use to use as an excuse. He’s drilling patterns and a style in training with half a squad. ETH use to always say we won’t play well or have patterns of play whilst we have injuries. Looking forward to seeing which winger he’ll transform into a wing back. Looking likely Antony. We’ll see one winger and one defender on the other side.
You don’t think we had drilling patters and a style in training, no matter who was available, under ETH?
At the end, there’s no doubt that the right decision was to sack Ten Hag, but i’m not sure why some are pretending that everything we’re doing under Amorim is a fecking evolution compared to what we’ve been doing in the past. I suppose the only thing he doesn’t do is shit the essence of Tom Ford perfume.
Correct. He is more of a BOSS bottled triumph elixir type, obvs.
(You’re right about Erik though, the clamour to do him down now is kinda pathetic)
Correct. He is more of a BOSS bottled triumph elixir type, obvs.
He did walk into Carrington with a massive Moncler feck off jacket, with huge letters on the back.
People have some legitimate PTSD/trauma from ETH’s reign - I see him mentioned every second or third post in here
Let it go. He came, he saw, he failed (though in his mind he won 2 trophies so he might have succeeded). Rightfully sacked (probably a good while too late but now we got Amorim, so that’s been a massive positive).
Looking forward to this new era, with a style sort of alien to MUFC, but it’s super exciting nonetheless. After all, formation shlomation…it’s all just a game of football at the end of the day.
Let it go. He came, he saw, he failed (though in his mind he won 2 trophies so he might have succeeded
). Rightfully sacked (probably a good while too late but now we got Amorim, so that’s been a massive positive). Looking forward to this new era, with a style sort of alien to MUFC, but it’s super exciting nonetheless. After all, formation shlomation…it’s all just a game of football at the end of the day.
I can see both sides to this.
1. Change is exciting.. so when fans see a clip, we get excited, if we hadn't seen that clip, we would be asking "what do they do in training". I have seen alot of fans say on youtube say.. all we did under Ten Hag was rondos.. well that is true because that's all you were allowed to see. What is true is we have no idea what they train on. It would be naïve to think Ten Hag didn't have proper training sessions.
2. Ten Hag did make excuses saying we cant play a certain style without certain players. I remember in S1 he did say we cant play a certain way because Martial wasn't fit.
What we have seen from Amorim session is him using the same system, regardless of players. So, its more players fit the system rather than system to fit players.
Ten Hag was more a tailor the system to suit players but that doesn't work. He then lost his way and ended up with a blend of systems to suit players.. Counter attack to suit Rashford, low block to suit our defence, High press because that is what he wants.
All i expect is a clear difference in approach to matches, how we set up, if that brings us a lot of positive results to begin with then i think it will set up us quite nicely. I think you need to see that you’re heading in the right direction to fully get onboard, build up confidence. I wouldn’t expect miracles just yet, but the squad is still promising and i hope Amorim will get the best out of them
I want me fast motorbike wingers and a lanky bastard up front though.
I think he will have to be really careful about that, this is the PL and any team can hurt you if you have any weaknesses in the defense. I'd rather he started with Dalot and Mazraoui first until the team settles.
It is quite hilarious to read. So far we've seen a 7 minute video of Amorim doing training, there is nothing in that training video that was mind blowing. He's just drilling them in his 3 4 3 formation. Pretty standard coaching that all coaches do for how they want to play. There is this weird rewriting of history going on with Ten Hag, which I get as a lot of people seem to have been upset with him. However, if you browse any of the threads at the beginning of Ten Hags reign you can pretty much take the quotes from fans on here about Amorim, replace Amorim for Ten Hag and you'll see the same quotes. Finally we have a manager that will actually coach, finally we have a modern manager, finally we have a manager with a proven style of play etc etc etc.
It will be a fun ride with Amorim, as it generally is with a new manager (finally after Moyes we have a technical manager in LVG, finally after LVG we have a winner in Mourinho, finally after Mourinho we have a manager that gets the players in Ole, finally after Ole we have modern manager who won't just be their friend and have good vibes, finally after ole we have a manager who the players will like). For me, I'm hoping Amorim can deliver where EtH and the previous managers couldn't. However, that is tempered by the fact the we are still reliant on the likes of Rashford who will post about how great training is now and likely in a few games there will be clips of him jogging about again. There is a loottttt of work still to do with this squad. I have faith in Amorim though, as I had faith in EtH when he first joined us.
Different managers different perspectives. Martial had the ability to hold up the ball to allow us to move forward, when he wasn’t completely crocked that is. Rashford doesn’t have the strength or ability on the ball to do that, he’s more or less there to finish attacks rather than being a cog. So yeah, i think it’s fair enough to state that we had to adjust our style according to who was available up top under Ten Hag.
Just as i’d expect an «adjustment» quote from Amorim if we’re forced to play without Rashford and Højlund.
Doesn’t really matter, all we can hope for is a promising start and that we’ll continue to build on it, but fans are still taking the piss.
This is too simplistic an analysis, and also wrong. One of Ten Hag's biggest faults was sticking to his "system" that didnt get the best out of the players. Things like inverting fullbacks, high press and touchline wingers didnt suit our squad, yet he insisted with it.
Someone like Ancelotti will play to the players strengths. Someone like Pep will be sticking to his philosophy. Different styles, both top managers.
We have to hope Amorim is adaptable enough. Its all about balance.