Round of 16 | Switzerland vs Italy | Germany vs Denmark

Pintu said:
@giorno
Much better defensively than this, but way worse in attack… he had 5 top players in his defensive set up, 3 of them WC winners (Buffon, Barzagli & De Rossi) and the other 2 were Bonucci & Chiellini… the rest of the squad was almost serie B level (Pelle, Eder, Giacherini…), and for whatever reason they didn’t have Verratti or Jorginho (both of them already good players) in that squad.
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This one has Donnarumma, Jorginho, Barella and Chiesa, all Euro winners. Cristante was also on the team 3 years ago, and we had Bastoni starting for Inter, along with waaaaaaaay better forward and midfield options as that side. Give these guys to Conte and this squad is a dark horse to win it all

But Conte’s success was also the failure of his opponents. Belgium and Spain had far better squads, but they didn’t look to be coached at all… Weltmeister Germany also should have defeated them before the shootout.
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Sure, but that team was never afraid of playing, even when they knew they had no business trying to compete with the likes of Germany. This team made a weaker, less talented team look like 1970 Brazil
 
Eric_the_Red99 said:
That’s what happened when they experimented with abolishing offside in some test games. You just got two groups of players in each area lobbing the ball to each other, with no midfield at all. Became a completely different sport, and not in a good way.
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I think I saw those videos. :lol: kudos for them for trying it, but it was bad bad.
 
That_Bloke said:
A good winger will have Schlotterbeck on toast.
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He's a CB. He did fine against Mbappé and Dembele with Dortmund in the CL by the way. He's surprisingly fast.

He was good tonight and I think his partnership with Rudiger is better than Rudiger-Tah.
 
Acrobat7 said:
No, there wouldn’t. If a striker camps in the box then a defender will be there with him.
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Yes, and there would be more play in the box as a result, which means more chance of goals and more direct play from box to box. More long balls and more space for players as defenders would be busy defending the box.
 
Stan Jefferson said:
but what if the Lino isn’t in perfect line with the play, that will affect wether there is daylight or not and it won’t need much of a misalignment to change the outcome completely and the attacker/defender won’t even be able to judge wether they or anyone else are offside or not because it will be dependent on the position of the lino or camera or whatever you are using to judge it.
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Then why do we just not bother with goals as well. Because VAR tries to look for a way to disallow every bloody goal that is scored. Is there a possible foul, is it offside, it is getting ridiculous. The rules are not being carried out with any sign of common sense, certainly not by the 'Jobsworths' that work as referees in the PL.
 
Shocking reffing of the game, or shocking rules, doesn't really matter which way it's looked at, the pen was shit.

But Germany still deserved it overall.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Exactly. Just clear offsides, not marginal offside.
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But you still have to draw the line somewhere, and so there will always be marginal cases whenever you’re close to that line. Unless you think there should be a grey area between onside and offside, which could do either way, in which case there’d be lots of inconsistent decisions and more unfairness?
 
croadyman said:
Sickening he picked Germany over England
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I mean he was born here and lived here till he was 9 and came back when he was 16. He has one German parent too.

The decisive time was moving to Bayern and playing with Muller and co, who I'm sure would've convinced him to switch.
 
Acrobat7 said:
I get what you are saying, but what is „a clear gap“? That leaves room for interpretation. It sucks the way it is now but it is fair.
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If no part of the attackers body overlaps with the defenders body, ie, a clear gap between the two players. That seems like an easy enough thing to determine by taking one look.
 
That_Bloke said:
Not buying that, and I won't let myself get dragged into the "ref won them the match" narrative.

It's ridiculous. Denmark had good chances but the better team won at the end. That said, Germany will have to massively up their game in the next rounds.

On a side note, the storm in Dortmund in the first half just reached us here in Cologne. The thunderclaps are quite something.
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The Germans had not had any chances for a very long time before Michael Oliver gifted them a penalty, and therefore the game was 100% even at this point. The goal to 1-0 meant that Denmark had to play more offensively and gave chances to counter, and the Germans took advantage of that.

So "yes", the penalty award was crucial. Then you can discuss whether the ruling was fair or not. I personally do not think that a hard kick from 0.5 meters away should result in a penalty when it hits an arm.
 
I feel for Denmark - but decisions were correct. And when I hear Gary Neville calling the hands-decision "Shocking" - but what should be handball ? He sticks his hand out - the ball hits the hand. If that hadn't been given - someone would have said "shocking" that it wasn't given.
 
Eric_the_Red99 said:
That’s what happened when they experimented with abolishing offside in some test games. You just got two groups of players in each area lobbing the ball to each other, with no midfield at all. Became a completely different sport, and not in a good way.
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Sounds like a much more fun game than football is now.

Midfield play is the most boring aspect of football. Crowding the box is the most exciting one.
 
WeePat said:
If no part of the attackers body overlaps with the defenders body, ie, a clear gap between the two players. That seems like an easy enough thing to determine by taking one look.
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Doesn't eliminate the importance of toes, does it
 
padr81 said:
It doesn't fix anything just moves the line, moving the line and someone will still be a toe offside at certain times.
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Your missing the point, it's not moving the line it's building in a margin of reasonableness. You keep the line in the same place (heel of the defender here) but you triple the line width and you've got a bigger margin. If someone is still a toe off they're outside a reasonable distance which is the whole bloody point rather than expecting players to play to a computers standard.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Then why do we just not bother with goals as well. Because VAR tries to look for a way to disallow every bloody goal that is scored. Is there a possible foul, is it offside, it is getting ridiculous. The rules are not being carried out with any sign of common sense, certainly not by the 'Jobsworths' that work as referees in the PL.
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I totally agree with you but for me the issue is fundamental to var and I don’t believe it can be fixed. I don’t believe any amount of tinkering with the offside rule will counter the fact that var is too accurate rendering it basically impossible for any player to judge offside as accurately as it does, thus giving you clearly unfair but also correct to the letter of the law. Var needs scrapping before any of the other issues can be fixed for me.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Does Rudiger have some sort of mental disorder that makes him a massive cnut?
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Ummm what? He's just an energetic and expressive guy, don't think he's done anything 'cnuty' on the pitch to deserve to be called that.
 
I remember when Jerome Boateng gave away a penalty in the 2013 CL final in London. Almost exactly in the same spot of the box, but his arm was even closer to his body and he was in mid-leap to prevent the cross.
 
Smores said:
Your missing the point, it's not moving the line it's building in a margin of reasonableness. You keep the line in the same place (heel of the defender here) but you triple the line width and you've got a bigger margin. If someone is still a toe off they're outside a reasonable distance which is the whole bloody point rather than expecting players to play to a computers standard.
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Why triple? Why not double or quadruple? Why not 10cm? Or 12cm? It will always either be interpretation or binary at a certain border.
 
lysglimt said:
I feel for Denmark - but decisions were correct. And when I hear Gary Neville calling the hands-decision "Shocking" - but what should be handball ? He sticks his hand out - the ball hits the hand. If that hadn't been given - someone would have said "shocking" that it wasn't given.
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"He sticks his hand out"

What does that mean? It reads like it was consciously done to gain an advantage but we all know that it is in an entirely natural spot for the physical motion he was in.

If that is handball it can't be be punished with a penalty as that it too great a punishment for the offense. We are effectively telling defenders to play with their hands behind their back.
 
Hester_manc said:
The Germans had not had any chances for a very long time before Michael Oliver gifted them a penalty, and therefore the game was 100% even at this point. The goal to 1-0 meant that Denmark had to play more offensively and gave chances to counter, and the Germans took advantage of that.

So "yes", the penalty award was crucial. Then you can discuss whether the ruling was fair or not. I personally do not think that a hard kick from 0.5 meters away should result in a penalty when it hits an arm.
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You make it sound like Denmark had the upperhand until the penalty which wasn't the case at all. Denmark were compact and waiting for the counter and with a decent striker, Germany woud've scored long before the penalty.

As for the pen itself, yeah the rule is dumb but that's the current one. Oliver just applied it. People are making it out as if he got it wrong. He didn't.
 
lysglimt said:
I feel for Denmark - but decisions were correct. And when I hear Gary Neville calling the hands-decision "Shocking" - but what should be handball ? He sticks his hand out - the ball hits the hand. If that hadn't been given - someone would have said "shocking" that it wasn't given.
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Yeah don't put hand out and give decision to make
 
Deserved win, but Denmark played well and were very unlucky.
Michael Oliver gave Germany some absurd free kicks though
 
It’s the handball for me. Super close proximity, barely any time to think. Barely any contact, and not clear enough to say it was intentional. It’s just never a handball in my eyes of what handball means.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
I mean he was born here and lived here till he was 9 and came back when he was 16. He has one German parent too.

The decisive time was moving to Bayern and playing with Muller and co, who I'm sure would've convinced him to switch.
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Oh yeah they convinced him without a doubt and unfortunately he will make us pay for years
 
Acrobat7 said:
Until two toes overlap ;)
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If they do then no offsides. Or something like that. I’m sure they could come up with a system that doesn’t deem a player offside that is stood exactly in line with the defender gaining zero advantage.
 
Smores said:
Your missing the point, it's not moving the line it's building in a margin of reasonableness. You keep the line in the same place (heel of the defender here) but you triple the line width and you've got a bigger margin. If someone is still a toe off they're outside a reasonable distance which is the whole bloody point rather than expecting players to play to a computers standard.
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The Premier League has done exactly that for years. Have you still moaned about close offside calls in the Premier League?
 
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