Yeah I think it was a fair result. They had the bigger chances.
I will agree that goals definately change games but they had one called off earlier too.
Round of 16 | Switzerland vs Italy | Germany vs Denmark
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Yeah I think it was a fair result. They had the bigger chances.
I will agree that goals definately change games but they had one called off earlier too.
Now you will probably say, that was in the Premier League and not the euros, even if it was the same ref.
And that is true and if we have no incident for the rest of the this euros where the handball rules is interpret differently by the ref then I will admit I was wrong and the calls where all done based on facts.
I just dont think that will be the case, but we will see.
Definitely should be a pen according to current rules.
That was clear as day, though. The injustice we were exposed to will always affect confidence, focus, and thereby the flow of the game more. Granted I didn’t watch the last 30 minutes as I decided to retire as a football follower after it happened.
Yeah, it was heartbreaking, I considered appealing for a rules change or retiring as a football follower when this great injustice was inflicted upon my people.
Personally I thought it was a bit soft.
There was no injustice though. The rules where applied correctly. I have a massive issue with the handball rules as they are, but you cant fault the application yesterday. As a United fan it stings a bit more, of course, to see Oliver, of all people, give that.
I gotta say, I always knew we where not going far in this tournament, as we are in a bit of a transition. I am desperate for us to get a new manager in and get the likes of Schmeichel and Delaney retired.
We did well for spells of that game and where far more in the game than I had thought we would be.
Sure, I guess that’s true. I’m probably looking at it with a broader, more flexible idea of fairness, as in whether it makes any sense at all to let a competition be decided by this nonsense. Basically I just don’t give a shit anymore. Football has gotten too stupid to be worth getting invested in.
No one would be crying because it isn't the wrong decision. Is it harsh? Yes given the distance and the outstretched arm wasn't very egregious, would be a 50-50 call a few years ago but today it's a clear penalty.
This decision a few years ago enraged me but wasn't given. The distance is a bit more, which is what makes it worse than yesterday but similarly Marcelo could argue it was a 'natural position'.
Yea, stuff like this I can live with. Foot was 2cm offside so that‘s a pity and unfortunate and possibly could tweaked a wee bit but you gotta draw the line somewhere so that‘s ok. Arm was very likely „unintentional“ there but it was spread off quite wide hence a pen. That rule could/should be improved upon but there are more glaring issues imho that could be easily adressed. Example given the Turkey game with a very early yellow-red for the oppo (shouldn‘t matter but for perspective) and the Turkish player, already on a yellow, made a crystal clear punishable foul (elbow against head) unseen by the ref on the pitch but the Var „can‘t“ intervene because it wasn‘t a clear cut red card but 99% would have been a second yellow so equally influencial to the game. Head scratching rule set.
Can we go back to how bad Italy were?
What's the reaction been in the Italian media? I'm assuming Spaletti and the players are being hounded
What's the reaction been in the Italian media? I'm assuming Spaletti and the players are being hounded
Are you slow or something ? I initially said that the refs need to be given licence to use some common sense. In other words, the refereeing governing bodies have to implement a system where the ref doesn't have to apply the rulebook robotically
I agree with this.
But I also recognise that any system which requires common sense from the likes of Michael Oliver is unworkable.
It could easily get worse with him
I thought Denmark played well and had the right and brave enough tactics for this game.
The first 15mins Germany were way better but after that it was an even game.
The first 15mins Germany were way better but after that it was an even game.
Oh man bayern should have had like 5 penalties in that game
Anyways, the simple fix is to either reintroduce indirect free kick in the box or award a free kick at the edge of the box instead of a penalty depending on type and situation. Like yesterday's, if you award a "short corner kick" for that, would anybody consider that unfair?
Yes, but surprisingly not nearly enough. Some of those guys honestly deserve to be forced into exile
You'd still have debates about what's a penalty and what's not with handballs, as intentional ones or those blocking shots to the goal should still result in penalties, but yeah, all things considered yesterday's handball should 100% be a foul rewarded with something other than a penalty.Oh man bayern should have had like 5 penalties in that game
Anyways, the simple fix is to either reintroduce indirect free kick in the box or award a free kick at the edge of the box instead of a penalty depending on type and situation. Like yesterday's, if you award a "short corner kick" for that, would anybody consider that unfair?
Oh man bayern should have had like 5 penalties in that game
Anyways, the simple fix is to either reintroduce indirect free kick in the box or award a free kick at the edge of the box instead of a penalty depending on type and situation. Like yesterday's, if you award a "short corner kick" for that, would anybody consider that unfair?
Yes, but surprisingly not nearly enough. Some of those guys honestly deserve to be forced into exile
Another one from days past, this time given as a penalty. Again I don't remember there being any debate (*nudge nudge* it's against Germany) although this has pretty much zero distance from the header and is a pretty natural position for a contesting header.
(time 3:30)
Also a couple of plays earlier, I'll always remember, Pogba loses Schweinsteiger and literally falls into him to stop him from getting to the corner but no penalty given
Hated the decisions in that game
If there's one thing that absolutely boils my piss, especially on these forums, it's people taking these freeze frame video shots and running with them. "But look...you can clearly see his hand hits the ball when they slow the video down and freeze it..."
But football isn't played at 1/1000th of a second slowed down!!! It's played in real life, real speed. Why do the refs, VAR, FIFA and some of you fans not get about this? Its fekin ludicrous.
If a guy is sitting on a beach in his swim shorts and then readjusts himself as he stands up and he's caught on camera "slow-mo" with his cock hanging out for 1/1000th of a second, does that make him a flasher?
Lock him up!! Look! If you freeze frame it you can clearly see he's showing his old chap to the kids on the beach!!
FFS some of you need your heads examined, this is the ridiculous level we've got to in football.
What next? Every player must wear a electrode cap with sensors in telling the VAR booth if his thought process was done with intent on a foul or handball?
The same people quoting rules are quite quick to shut up when it comes to stop - start penalties, which funny enough, are also "against the rules" but never get pulled up. This is why people moan about inconsistency.
But football isn't played at 1/1000th of a second slowed down!!! It's played in real life, real speed. Why do the refs, VAR, FIFA and some of you fans not get about this? Its fekin ludicrous.
If a guy is sitting on a beach in his swim shorts and then readjusts himself as he stands up and he's caught on camera "slow-mo" with his cock hanging out for 1/1000th of a second, does that make him a flasher?
Lock him up!! Look! If you freeze frame it you can clearly see he's showing his old chap to the kids on the beach!!
FFS some of you need your heads examined, this is the ridiculous level we've got to in football.
What next? Every player must wear a electrode cap with sensors in telling the VAR booth if his thought process was done with intent on a foul or handball?
The same people quoting rules are quite quick to shut up when it comes to stop - start penalties, which funny enough, are also "against the rules" but never get pulled up. This is why people moan about inconsistency.
Really good tweet summarizing the decisions.
To take the discussion to something else than VAR for once:
Apparently yesterday before the start of the second half a man, identified as a 21y/o guy from Osnabrueck, Germany, made his way right beneath the stadium roof. Source article with video of him getting arrested with the police having their guns drawn on him: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/regional/nordrheinwestfalen/dortmund-stadion-polizei-100.html
Sorry for no English source, the news is quite fresh and the only article I found was of the Daily Mail, which I refuse to use as a source.
Some more photos with a few lines in English can be found here.
He is carrying a rucksack and trying to hide his identity by having the hood up and the lower half of his face wrapped. The police claim there was no danger, and the captains of both teams had been informed of the situation before the game was continued. The stands were not evacuated or any other larger security measures taken. It is so far unclear what his plans are, and how he was able to make his way to the roof constructions.
Apparently yesterday before the start of the second half a man, identified as a 21y/o guy from Osnabrueck, Germany, made his way right beneath the stadium roof. Source article with video of him getting arrested with the police having their guns drawn on him: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/regional/nordrheinwestfalen/dortmund-stadion-polizei-100.html
Sorry for no English source, the news is quite fresh and the only article I found was of the Daily Mail, which I refuse to use as a source.
Some more photos with a few lines in English can be found here.
He is carrying a rucksack and trying to hide his identity by having the hood up and the lower half of his face wrapped. The police claim there was no danger, and the captains of both teams had been informed of the situation before the game was continued. The stands were not evacuated or any other larger security measures taken. It is so far unclear what his plans are, and how he was able to make his way to the roof constructions.
I didn't read the forum during the game and am now very surprised that there is a discussion about the refs. The two VAR decisions against Denmark were correct. They might have been tight but somewhere you have to draw the line. When it is offside, it is offside, even if it is only a centimetre. And the direction of the cross was clearly changed by a Danish hand that had no business being where the player held it. The only debatable VAR decision was the one against Kimmich before Schlotterbeck's goal. Can't say anything on the Wirtz' goal but when it comes to offside calls, I trust VAR 100% since there is really no room for interpretation. I fully understand that people root for the underdog but come on guys, when you start criticizing correct calls because they are narrow, you are effectively demanding that refs should act against the rules.
I think that was an overall good performance.
Havertz a was for me the best player on the pitch but needs to sort his finishing out. He could already be at 5+ goals this tournament.
I hope the decision to bench Wirtz was made because Nagelsmann thought this was the last match in which he can give him a much needed rest. IMO, this game showed why right now he is a better player than Musiala who was bordering terrible last night. Completed only two dribbles and messed up 7 and one of those 7 lead to the biggest Danish chance of the game (same thing happened against Switzerland by the way). He also messed up the final cut back to Sané right before the penalty call. On the other hand, he was very composed for his goal. He's absolutely unplayable when he's in the form of the Scotland game but his bottom level is still too low for my liking.
Sané and Gündogan were decent without being decisive. Especially for Sané, that's a good thing since his last couple of games were very erratic. To be fair, if Musiala didn't mess up the final ball to him and if he wasn't fouled before Havertz' chance (I think the ref could have given a red here by the way), he could have finished the game with two goals. Still don't really want to see him start since Musiala, Gündogan and Wirtz are simply better players than him but as a super sub, he could be a great asset.
Kroos had a rather bad game by his standards as well. Some misplaced passes and a couple ones that found their target but put the receiver under immediate pressure. Same goes for Andrich who additionally gave away a very stupid foul. It seems as if Can has surpassed Gross in the hierarchy though and is the first alternative and I really don't want to see him start.
Schlotterbeck was really good, though, at least if we ignore the slapstick play in his own box. Constant threat from set pieces and the assist to Musiala was phenomenal. Tah and Rüdiger are generally better CBs, IMO, but a left footed CB really helps our build up and could be an argument to start him ahead of Tah.
Raum was much more of a threat than Mittelstädt and should have earned himself another start in the next match though I would really like to see the Mittelstädt/Führich combo. I think they worked really well in the last friendlies when paired together.
Havertz a was for me the best player on the pitch but needs to sort his finishing out. He could already be at 5+ goals this tournament.
I hope the decision to bench Wirtz was made because Nagelsmann thought this was the last match in which he can give him a much needed rest. IMO, this game showed why right now he is a better player than Musiala who was bordering terrible last night. Completed only two dribbles and messed up 7 and one of those 7 lead to the biggest Danish chance of the game (same thing happened against Switzerland by the way). He also messed up the final cut back to Sané right before the penalty call. On the other hand, he was very composed for his goal. He's absolutely unplayable when he's in the form of the Scotland game but his bottom level is still too low for my liking.
Sané and Gündogan were decent without being decisive. Especially for Sané, that's a good thing since his last couple of games were very erratic. To be fair, if Musiala didn't mess up the final ball to him and if he wasn't fouled before Havertz' chance (I think the ref could have given a red here by the way), he could have finished the game with two goals. Still don't really want to see him start since Musiala, Gündogan and Wirtz are simply better players than him but as a super sub, he could be a great asset.
Kroos had a rather bad game by his standards as well. Some misplaced passes and a couple ones that found their target but put the receiver under immediate pressure. Same goes for Andrich who additionally gave away a very stupid foul. It seems as if Can has surpassed Gross in the hierarchy though and is the first alternative and I really don't want to see him start.
Schlotterbeck was really good, though, at least if we ignore the slapstick play in his own box. Constant threat from set pieces and the assist to Musiala was phenomenal. Tah and Rüdiger are generally better CBs, IMO, but a left footed CB really helps our build up and could be an argument to start him ahead of Tah.
Raum was much more of a threat than Mittelstädt and should have earned himself another start in the next match though I would really like to see the Mittelstädt/Führich combo. I think they worked really well in the last friendlies when paired together.
I think it is mainly because the ref was Oliver. As you said, according to the rules the decision were correct. The only two that are debatable actually went against Germany (disallowed goal after Kimmich‘s block and potential red for the foul on Sané) and VAR didn’t even intervene.
Haha, beautiful. Two Germans agreeing that controversial decisions aren’t, in fact, controversial at all. The rest of football Europe must be idiots then.
But really, you can’t be serious when you say that you’re surprised it’s a discussion? Are you really that incapable of viewing this as if you were a neutral? Every one of us would be fuming if it’d been our team, even though the two VAR decisions were correct in a strictly legal sense. It’s not a question whether it should be a debate or not, but rather where the fault lies - is it the rules or the interpretation?
We are obviously biased but a) the same goes for you and the "rest of football Europe" who generally support the underdog in such situations and b) in this case, it doesn't really matter since the rule set leaves no room for interpretation. When it's offside, it is offside, be it by an arms length or a pinky toe. And a) by the way is further evidenced by the fact that nobody is talking about the two (potential) VAR situations that went Denmark's way. First, the goal by Schlotterbeck which was ruled over because Kimmich's soft foul and b) the IMO clear red card that Delaney should have gotten for fouling Sané when he would have an open net in front of him.
That being said, I kind of see the argumentation with the frames and the benefit of the doubt of the attacker though that should then probably include Wirtz' goal as well which was also incredibly narrow.
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Yeah you guys were the ones who were on the wrong side of the stick. At least be graceful in winning
The two situations you means are really not open for interpretation either. Its a clear obstruction which is a foul and advantage is played where you do play the advantage, because the other player goes on to shoot.
As you said, they were correct. The rules might be controversial to you (I agree on the handball rule) but they were apllied correctly. Life goes on.
Offside is offside. We should just be happy that we have moved onto something better than dodgy lines drawn on a screen, where you can't really make sense of it anyway. This system makes it clear. Even if it hurt my own team, this seems like the way to go.
The handball stuff is different. We need a rule change here. Probably it should still be something VAR can look at, but the proportionality needs to be addressed.
Sorry, I didn't intend to provoke you guys or anything, just wanted to share my perspective. Regardless of whether or not the calls were correct or not, how things went must have been very frustrating as a Denmark fan or even a neutral rooting for the smaller team.
Hehe no worries for me. Personally I accept the result, at least this time we went out fair according to the rules, not because of a cheat like last time. I am rooting for you guys or your two southern neighbors
Happy to hear that
I haven't met any Danish fans myself this year but everything I've heard suggests you guys were highly likeable and I would have rooted for you (and especially Eriksen) to reach the quarters if it hadn't meant our exit.The rules are controversial, full stop. On top of that Oliver could have chosen not to give the penalty
“A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation”.
In this situation it’s evident that the hand is where it is as a consequence of Andersen’s movement. This wouldn’t have been given here or in most other leagues and I understand Denmarks frustration like many others do.
Regarding the offside: It was correct and that’s not interpretable, but I think we need to adjust the rules and the system so that the players aren’t required to bring a ruler and measure whether their little toe or genitals are a bit closer to goal than the opponent. Maybe give them a couple of inches leeway or something. It would still be black and white decisions, but a bit more according to the spirit of the rule.
Lastly, I’d love to think that you’d say “life goes on” if it’d been your team, but I don’t believe you would. This discussion is important, not because it takes away anything from Germany's deserved win, but because we need to adjust and improve VAR until we’ve found a better balance.
Mate, I support Bayern. Trust me, I know about "Life goes on." I have a whole collection of CL finals for that.