What do you mean it's now down to 6 points? The last time we had a better result then Everton on a match day was on November 10th against arsenal. Since then, they've been getting better results or the same result. We didn't claw back anything on them.
Ross Barkley
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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I think Everton making the CL is highly unlikely - but I'm not saying he won't stay. What I am saying is that the draw and appeal for a footballer to sign for Manchester United over a club like Everton or Newcastle isn't erased because both clubs currently have more points. Same as the appeal of Atletico Madrid isn't greater than Real Madrid for the same reason.
The lure of the big clubs who have the big players, pay the big wages, play in big games play in front of the big crowds, who offer huge commercial exposure and sponsorship opportunities - isn't eradicated on the basis that someone else has more points midway through a season.
To be fair, you've just described Wayne Rooney there. I have a feeling if we make an offer for him next summer regardless of whether Everton making it into the CL, he'll want to come. He will have look at Wayne here and what he has achieved, he knows David Moyes and most young British lads would jump at the chance to play for United
Yeah but city or Chelsea will always outbid us and pay agent fees that we refuse to.
There are still 21 games left for us to claw those 6 points if you wish me to say it so explicitly, more than enough to do so
True, but we no longer have sir Alex and are no longer the best English team, and have that security that we will always be competing for the title. I'm not saying we won't but nothing is guaranteed like before. Also Everton now are looking better then they ever have under moyes.
I'm not saying Everton has a bigger appeal then us, far from it, but the fact is that he plays for his boyhood club right now who are ahead of us in the league right now and are fighting for the same thing as us. Why wouldn't he want to stay there and help out his club make it to the top 4, and when they get there I am positive he'd prefer to stay another season to continue to develop and try to get them as far as possible. After that, I think he'd leave, but I don't think he'd leave any sooner really. People are too quick to discount a bit of loyalty to your boyhood club these days.
I think we will I was just saying like they haven't had a run of poor form or anything hat we clawed back some points with our recent form, it's stayed at 6. I'd say our chances to finish top 4 are similar to theirs right now, but that can easily change in the January window.
There's far too often a timidity about young players in English footballers. Yes 20 is young but look at guys like Neymar or Hazard or other players who have made that big move around similar age or younger. Why is it that foreign talent make the big moves early in their career and take the plunge and let their talent go as far as it can take them where as here we talk of players "not needing to move" and make that step up until they're well into their 20s?
It's a psychological difference. A young South American talent will have everyone swarming around him. He'll make a big money signing to a top European side and before his teens are over he'll be a fixture in one of the leading clubs in Europe, playing in the world's best club competition and strutting his stuff along with other top players.
Here?
"Oh he's only 20, he can spend another 2-3 years at the club who can't provide him with any of that"
It's these kind of attitudes that explain why so few English talent shine at the top level. It's not a direct criticism of Everton or necessarily of this player but there's far, far too much caution when it comes to English players. They end up staying at clubs for far too long, suffering from lack of exposure to top level football and generally fade out or fail to live up to potential. You can't really get to aged 23/24 without top-level CL football and then expect to kick on. There may be rare examples but generally if you're to be one of the top players you need exposure to the top level asap.
It's a psychological difference. A young South American talent will have everyone swarming around him. He'll make a big money signing to a top European side and before his teens are over he'll be a fixture in one of the leading clubs in Europe, playing in the world's best club competition and strutting his stuff along with other top players.
Here?
"Oh he's only 20, he can spend another 2-3 years at the club who can't provide him with any of that"
It's these kind of attitudes that explain why so few English talent shine at the top level. It's not a direct criticism of Everton or necessarily of this player but there's far, far too much caution when it comes to English players. They end up staying at clubs for far too long, suffering from lack of exposure to top level football and generally fade out or fail to live up to potential. You can't really get to aged 23/24 without top-level CL football and then expect to kick on. There may be rare examples but generally if you're to be one of the top players you need exposure to the top level asap.
Moyes left them at 6th place and that's exactly where they're finishing this year.
Which would be an improvement given that four of the top five have strengthened considerably this year.
True.
I have them finishing 7th, behind Pool, Spurs and us. For all of Spurs' problems, they are just 4 points behind an "in-form" Everton. The form can go on only for so long.
Nah not really. I expect class to shine through in the end, whether we make any January signings or not. Or if someone like Lukaku is injured for a period of time, they may well tailed off. But Everton have done well to get this far which is a big credit to them
Martinez definitely has them punching above their weight this year. Can't see it changing much given Barkley's evolution and the contributions they're getting from their loanees.
I think about Spurs, too... I reckon it will be just too much for them. All the turmoil, too many new faces not necessarily fitting in and so on. It's Everton/Tottenham for the 6th/7th places anyway.
Two of their most influential players are on loan. They would have to do well to get proper replacements in when they eventually release them to their parent clubs. Coleman and of course Barkley have been very good too
Would love them to finish over Spurs anyhow, but can't see this form lasting over 38 games. Another hypothetical which will be quite funny if it happened would be Everton making top four ahead of Chelsea. Mourinho will have some explaining to do
How does that work? Maybe if they break into the top 4 or 5.
I agree with your point, partially, yet I think the main culprits for this kind of stagnation are actually ourselves. Sir Alex's over-reliance on experience in the latter years has came at cost to a few of our players. I look at Smalling and Jones and I get frustrated. I then look at Raphael Varane over at Madrid and it intensifies. At the European U21 championships we had the two best central defenders at that tournament in Smalling and Jones. Ours. Now? Neither are starting every week. Both of whom have been moved out of position and seldom played with any regularity. It's why I would have happily said goodbye to Rio not just last Summer, but even the one before last. As for Varane, who moved in the same Summer as Jones, he has played regularly for Madrid in the biggest of matches. Had Jones been at Madrid and Varane at United, I think we'd see a similar situation.
Smalling is now 24 and is not the footballer he should be. He certainly doesn't have the reputation his defensive skills merit. And that's a shame. Now, I know these are defenders so it's a bit different, but I see little point in blasting 30 million on Barkley unless he will play week in, week out. I honestly believe that Nani and Anderson were hampered by the steady reliance on both Giggs and Scholes. Anderson, more so, quite often played well yet found himself on the bench due to a rotation policy that only seemed to benefit about 3 players out of a squad of 25. Nani wasn't disrupted in fairness, as he's done quite well over time.
So we sign Barkley. What next? Is he going to benefit from playing once every three weeks in his best position in the way Welbeck, Smalling and Jones have done? Or, is he going to progress further by staying at Everton, playing in his best position regularly and biding his time until he can get a move to a top club that he will directly influence from the beginning, instead of being another one of those young players that stagnate due to bloated squads at the big clubs.
I think he'd be mad to move right now.
I guess I'm just extrapolating City, Arsenal, Chelsea, and Liverpool as having improved - some slightly, some significantly - and interpreting Everton's keeping up with them as an overall improvement compared to last year when one team ran away with the league.
True - though conversely they've lost an influential player in Fellaini and been sporadically deprived of the services of Leighton Baines this year. Barkley's development is also a big factor between last and this year.
Anichebe may have a say in that as well.
I don't think Barkley would play as rarely as that. It won't be like Rodwell signing for City where he plays once it's full moon and only if it rained on the first of the month. If he signed I think he'd play quite regularly.
Rodwell was the most undeservedly hyped English young footballer in recent years to be fair. Never knew what the fuss was all about.
I don't know who's worse, Rodwell or Garcia, and City have both and cost quite a considerable sum of money. Rodwell perhaps has a higher ceiling to improve though
Nah i thought he had potential but it was a shit move for him it really was. Granted City are a bigger club and could offer all I outlined we could in the debate on Barkley but it was clear he was never going to play. If we had City's players or even transfer ethos (of "if that doesn't work we'll sign another two players instead") then it would probably be a bad move for him but I'd like to think Barkley wouldn't be in that position here.
Am I in the minority in thinking that Barkley has a good brain and won't be tempted by City and Chelsea's money and will choose a club that is more suited for his development? 
YEAH? BECAUSE I'M TALKING ABOUT US HERE!
YEAH? BECAUSE I'M TALKING ABOUT US HERE!Well that depends on who we sign. I'd sooner see us spend big money on genuine midfielders of the highest quality than admittedly quite rounded potential like Barkley. I don't think he'd play all that often. He'd be competing with all of Rooney, Kagawa and Januzaj for the role he plays in now, so he isn't playing there. Then there's central midfield. In this case, he'd fall victim to the rotation I'm talking about, particularly if we do actually buy the midfielder we so desperately need.
But you know playing/training alongside the likes of Rooney, Kagawa, RVP, Januzaj, Carrick and the like will do him wonders too.
Have we mentioned lately that David Moyes Jr is Barkley's agent? Or at least works as an agent for the agency that represents him?
Well said Martinez.
Sounds like a "come and get him" plea to me. Off to the highest bidder in the summer.
I don't think anyone expected Barkley to be available in January anyway. Many are skeptical at the prospect of him being available in the summer!
Btw, why do all overseas players and managers not have any concept of how short a moment is? They always use this "at the moment I am in the middle of a great moment" terminology. A moment doesn't last a season or even a few months or weeks, you muppets - the whole point of a moment is it's really, really short - a second or two at most.
Random rant over.
Random rant over.
Except they wouldn't. They'd accept probably half of what Bale went for in a heartbeat. This hyperbole Martinez comes out with is pretty cringeworthy.
Roberto Mancini once said "in this moment we are in a good moment".
Most insightful interview ever.
It sounds like it will take a Gareth Bale size valuation to prize him away. I think we would turn down 30m...
Don't get carried away. There's every chance he and Everton will fade away in the second half of the season with the small squad they have (compared to the big boys) and Barkley won't be the hottest thing going anymore come the Summer.
He's good but he will need to keep it up for a few seasons before you start mentioning crazy fee's. And IMO Ramsey has been the best CM in the PL this season so far.
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