To add to this, I personally feel that it stops men from using women for sex. A man can easily say he loves a woman, bang her and leave with little to none consequences. But marriage changes this somewhat. It's proof to the woman that the man isn't John Terry.
Religion, what's the point?
- Thread starter TheRedFlag
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To add to this, I personally feel that it stops men from using women for sex. A man can easily say he loves a woman, bang her and leave with little to none consequences. But marriage changes this somewhat. It's proof to the woman that the man isn't John Terry.
Interestingly, one of the changes the Bolsheviks made in the first few years after the Russian Revolution was to limit men's ability to easily divorce their wives, to protect women from what they considered was an epidemic of women being "cast off" and left with essentially nothing.
Russia is not an muslim country so not very interesting? Unless I am missing something obvious.
So religion is a bit shit but better than nothing then?
Equality is far to strange a concept for this thread I think.
Equality is far to strange a concept for this thread I think.
Funny that. I've read that it became a lot easier for women to divorce their husbands under the Bolsheviks with many "postcard divorces" taking place in the early 1920s.
Does that include gay people who start getting urges.
We are never going to agree about gay people, hence me ignoring it from the list that Jake posted.
Well exactly, that's my point. If it's just a piece of paper why do you also attach so much importance to it.
With regards to the security marriage gives the woman, what about Muslim women in the west who have true equality, their own careers, their own income. Would it be bad for them to not get married?
The woman John Terry had an affair with made that choice, it was her decision. Being pressured into a marriage, being told it's a bad thing not to be married and being secondary to a man for the rest of your life seems a whole lot worse to me.
On the point about marriage in Islam giving women greater security and respect, where does polygamy come into this?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for shagging multiple women at the same, but Islam should at least admit that that's what polygamy is all about - sex. There's no getting away from the fact that polygamy essentially treats women like prostitutes - they provide sex and other duties in return for economic security. Muhammed had up to 13 wives. Women, on the other hand, aren't allowed to have more than one husband at the same time. How can this inequality be justified?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for shagging multiple women at the same, but Islam should at least admit that that's what polygamy is all about - sex. There's no getting away from the fact that polygamy essentially treats women like prostitutes - they provide sex and other duties in return for economic security. Muhammed had up to 13 wives. Women, on the other hand, aren't allowed to have more than one husband at the same time. How can this inequality be justified?
Hello? I am well aware of that. We are talking about a countries governed by Sharia law here, where I am FORCED to follow rules laid out according to religion, even if I am not religious.
Touche.
And what are your views on gay people. Say, I am gay and living in Pakistan. Should I be put to death or denied my rights?
Even in secular non-Sharia countries, Muslims aren't 'free' to leave their religion. At least not in any meaningful sense of the word. Children are brainwashed from an early age to believe that they must follow the religion that is being imposed on them, or else they'll be tortured for eternity. And then there is the reality that Muslims (especially Muslim women) would be ostracised from family/friends/community if they were to leave the religion, and in many cases would be threatened with violence.
Most Muslims are Muslim because they don't really have any other choice.
Sounds a fair bit like the Amish, at least from what I've seen on TLCs Breaking Amish or whatever it's called.
Nah, I think Turkey and some Eurasian (Azherbaijan etc.) countries are alright. I dated a Turkish girl before and although she was religious, she was pretty liberal with life. Mind you, she was very culturally connected to Turkey (belly dancing
) but incredibly liberal at the same time.The root cause of the current protest in Turkey is because the PM is trying to enforce more conservative/religious rules in Turkey which has historically been very careful in separating religion from politics. Read about it here.
http://gawker.com/what-is-going-on-in-turkey-and-do-i-really-need-to-care-511018243
Easier for women, harder for men. Also legalized abortion, established more kindergartens, that sort of thing.
They did have women and marriages, however, so I'm not sure why you're having such a hard time seeing the relevance. Additionally it was supporting your statement, so...
As a person living in the UK this is my take on homosexuality.
It's a right to disagree with a person's sexual behaviour in both public or private, and still respect this person as an individual their humanity, rights, and laws of the country. Homosexual activity is considered taboo in almost all religions and cultures - these religions and cultures have every right to express their convictions - to be consistent we must also accept their opinions.
It's a right to disagree with a person's sexual behaviour in both public or private, and still respect this person as an individual their humanity, rights, and laws of the country. Homosexual activity is considered taboo in almost all religions and cultures - these religions and cultures have every right to express their convictions - to be consistent we must also accept their opinions.
I assume you'll have figures to back this factual statement up.
Amen.
Barring the most heinous crimes people can commit again one another, that could be said about everything Sultan. Freedom of speech and expression includes the right not to like things being said or done.
I think it's a fair assumption to make.
Of course you have the right to disagree with a person's sexual behavior. In the same way it's a right to disagree with a person's religious beliefs, and still respect this person as an individual.
Homosexuality is still a taboo in a lot of cultures because of religion. They do have every right to express their convictions, and always should, but there's a fine line between criticism and persecution, which of course goes both ways.
You're thinking of bisexuals there Jake
Religion and sexuality just don't go together. They arbitrarily forbid one thing yet allow another.
Not sure I follow you 
Goes both ways.
Christ alive.
Am I allowed to say that in here?
Christ alive.
Am I allowed to say that in here?
Hang on, how is it anyone's business to disagree with two people being in a consensual relationship?
Then there's the eternal damnation aspect...
Then there's the eternal damnation aspect...
It's a uneducated statement from Rednev.
Nobody I know has ever been forced to affirm their faith, or forced to pray. Qur'an makes it very clear that there is absolutely no compulsion in faith. There is also not much credence given to cultural Muslims.
Yes, but the vast majority didn't exactly convert. I think Rednev is taking about indoctrination from birth. Whether some follow more religiously than others isn't the point.
Incest is also consensual, and illegal.
That only comes into equation if you believe in a God.
We've all been indoctrinated since Adam.
Well the law usually says that people below a certain age can't give consent. Same with donkeys etc.
Incest more often than not isn't consensual, actually.
You can be gay and believe in a god. It probably wouldn't be a happy experience for that person, though.
'Practice Islam or burn for eternity' is coercive at the very least. If a Muslim actually believes that this is their fate should they turn away from their religion, then how can you possibly say they have a choice in the matter? And in the real, non-spiritual world there is an extreme level of coercion. Do you really believe their is no compulsion in faith in the majority of the Muslim world? What would happen if a Muslim woman in, say, Pakistan, decided she wanted to leave her faith and become an atheist. Would that really be an option?
Not just from birth. I know a cultural Muslim in the UK who has to keep up the pretence that he is a religious Muslim, because publicly declaring that he is an atheist (or probably more accurately a deist) is completely not an option. It would involve being shunned by his family and many of his friends. And this is in the UK. A Muslim in a country that practises Sharia faces a possible death penalty for leaving Islam, or at least some form of punishment. And in countries where apostasy isn't punished by criminal law, at societal level, giving up the Muslim faith isn't really an option. At best the apposite would be shunned by his community, and at worst he would be the victim of violence.
Incest between consensual adults is very rarely punished in Europe.
As is homosexuality in so called Muslim countries.
You actually need 4 eye witnesses to have witnessed the act (basically in open) and only then they can be prosecuted.
Err, in what universe you are living? How it's fair to get your hand chopped for stealing even small things? It could be just the heat of the moment, and then you have to live our your life without a hand/ What about kleptomaniacs?
Cutting off body parts as punishment is fecking ridiculous. It's not as if they are ever wrong about somebody being guilty is it!