Just shows the arrogance of the man and total lack of respect for authority.Yeah, it's one thing that CAF members were trashing him, but Ronaldo went further than most
Ralf Rangnick | Austria manager
- Thread starter Livewire1974
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When he was the interim manager (which he wasn't supposed to be) my thought was let's see out the season, regroup and restructure during the break while we get a new manager and RR moves to DoF role, which he was supposed to be.
Unfortunately owners and management had different idea, or no idea. RR would have fit in new structure that Sir Jim is putting in place.
Anyway, sometimes things don't work out the way you intend to. Club's loss, what can I say?
Unfortunately owners and management had different idea, or no idea. RR would have fit in new structure that Sir Jim is putting in place.
Anyway, sometimes things don't work out the way you intend to. Club's loss, what can I say?
I'm not sure that was the order in which things happened, but I doubt we will ever get real statements about that anytime soon.
I still believe that he tried to change stuff internally but quickly realized that his recommendations wouldn't be followed. He didn't make those statements directly from the beginning, but only after some weeks. I guess this is when it already had become clear (at least for him) that there would be no common future for him and United.
I wonder what England are then!
United?
Words of a man who was fighting for his life at the top level after being asked to press from the front. As always, self interested at the detriment of literally every other person associated with Manchester United.
Agreed. Austria's run in the Euro's so far if we are using PL comparison is Brighton losing to City and then beating West Ham and Spurs
What I disliked most about the whole thing was all the mockery and disrespect. It's obvious he didn't do well at United, and it was perfectly okay to criticise him, but it was equally obvious even at the time that he is a very good professional and knows a lot about football, but was put in an improvised and precarious position. For me it was the over the top theatrics about him being the worst manager in the history of professional sports in all universes, realities and dimensions that felt forced and/or ignorant and/or dishonest. It's not about being smarter or more knowledgeable, it's about criticising with some kind of restraint and respect so as not to make fools of ourselves at every turn.
Right man, wrong club.
Ralf as our DOF was a Caf fantasy. He was going to be a consultant - an advisor with no actual decision-making power. Would've been great to have kept him on and leveraged his expertise, but a lot of people here get carried away as to what his actual remit was going to be.
Just like how guys like Martinez and Southgate are decent at international level…
Rangnick did one major mistake. In order to build a successful team, he would have needed some time, full backing of the club and a big say about the ins and outs. He should never have accepted the United stint, as it was very obvious he wouldn't get neither the time nor the necessary backing.
On the other hand, if United backed him like Arsenal did with Arteta, I'm pretty sure you would have a complete different team today, playing style of football. United would be much more competitive under Rangnick.
On the other hand, if United backed him like Arsenal did with Arteta, I'm pretty sure you would have a complete different team today, playing style of football. United would be much more competitive under Rangnick.
He was an interim manager for 6 months or so and then move in to a consulting role, he was never meant to be anything else.
Would be fun if Austria kicked Portugal out of the Euros later in the tournament
I know. That's why I wrote Rangnick's biggest mistake was to accept the offer to be interim manager. It was very obvious it won't work out in this short time frame and with these players.
In what world is Martinez considered a decent international manager? Didn't achieve the expected results with an extremely talented Belgium team. Southgate as well has been rightfully criticized as well for not taking this England team far enough.
Both in no are comparable to the job Ralf is doing with Austria.
They did, with ETH. You can't say he isn't backed in his two years with Utd.
Martinez has had two top jobs off the back of exactly what you said. Point being never read into international football as being similar to domestic which is what the article does. I like Ralf as a DoF, I don’t think he’s a stand out domestic manager (as his record kind of shows) but he has a specific style he believes in and he’s doing really well with this Austria team.
They had a very good campaign in 2018 finishing 3rd in the World Cup. Don't think "winning it" was the expected result for a nation that has never even played the final.
Last tournament was terrible though.
Indeed and from what I’ve seen I think they have a very good chance of doing so.
A reassessment of what Ralf could have accomplished with United is in order. The club was in total shambles before he arrived and with the names on hand we all wanted instant success, but instant success is not what Ralf is all about. I doubt any one of us would have actually been on board with the total clearout of the squad that the club needed then, but it is what we needed then and Ralf is better equipped than anyone else at least I can think of to mastermind a total squad rebuild that would take three seasons to complete and have back in contention for PL and CL trophies.
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We've seen managers before get overrated based on results while not looking at the context behind them. I still remember Schalke, back when they were still a team looking to challenge the top 4, hiring Di Matteo because he won the UCL even when most people knew there was a lot of luck behind that title. Unsurprisingly he got sacked without even completing a whole season.
While yes he does have a specific style, the point his performances with Austria shows is that if you allow him to implement that style then he can do well.
What's that got to do with anything. He's talking about Rangnick.
I think that likely goes for most coaches with any kind of ability though? Schalke was a great achievement but it was a lifetime ago in football terms, since then he’s actively wanted to be a DoF aside from when he’s stepped in at various points when managers have left/been fired.
Issue England have is I’m not sure even Southgate can tell you his set style. It seems more to be about players than the setup. Ralf, being a DoF, can probably describe in extreme detail the profile he wants for every single position and selects players based off that, Southgate likely would likely change his tactics based on which players are playing well; i.e. Kane is scoring goals, Foden is playing well, Bellingham is playing well so I’ll have to start all of them and the team will figure it out.
They have a point. Lots of revisionists lamenting we didn't give Ralf more time and saying it was the club's fault while at the same time having a pop at sticking with ETH, the man who inherited the mess. Both men are obviously capable coaches but the mess here doesn't have a quick fix.
Even if we gave Ralf more time but as a coach, I'll still blame our board. The man made a name for himself as a DOF, why would we get hell-bent on getting him as coach?
There are lots of people who cannot stand Rangnick. Myself included. I am glad he is not the coach at Bayern.
Ragnick is nothing special coach wise. You can get what you want from most red bull drilled coaches. None of that would work with our squad though. We don't have 24 people in the squad that would run themselves into the ground for the coach we have primmadonnas and very few hard working players. In Austria we have a proper team where everyone will run and do everything for the coach. There are no superstars and egos in the team - the team is above everything else. This would never work at united at least not with that squad.
I think there's some truth in this, but you've taken it too far.
Yeah, there's definitely some of the red bull ethos in this side, but that can't really be divorced from Rangnick and what he implemented with those sides. He's a step up on the likes of Jesse Marsch and the fact that several years after he left players are still recognisably playing a system that he was instrumental in putting in place is credit to him.
That said, I don't think he has the reputation in England to ever have the control to have done something like that here; he simply would never be given the control that he'd need.
I think the more instructive lesson is probably one for international football. There isn't time to coach a system, so you're better off if a large number of players are familiar with one already and then you can hopefully slot the others in. England, Belgium and France have always looked disjointed at international level despite the quality of players at their disposal and I don't think it helps that almost all their players play in different teams, countries and with different ideas.
Probably the best combination of tactical drilling + world class players was Spain's golden period and they all played for two sides. They were dreadfully dull to watch, but I think had the most coherent approach of any of any international side I can remember.
Austria has been steadily improving basically since the Euros in 2008 which were hosted here. The young generation that emerged right after (Alaba, Arnautovic, Sabitzer) were the first Austrian star players in ages ... and finally most played for Austria instead of other countries, which had long been a problem. For example, Kovacic (born in Linz, Austria and came through Austrian football as a youth) would have been the 4th of that group, but he decided to represent Croatia after moving to Dinamo Zagreb in his teenage years.
At roughly this same time (2005), Red Bull bought SV Austria Salzburg and turned it into RB Salzburg ... creating a super power within the Austrian league and later adding RB Leipzig. In 2012 they named Ralf Ragnick as DoF for both clubs, and effectively turned their entire development system (which dominates Austrian football) into a single factory line of gegenpressing.
As Austrian football slowly became RB Austria, the team began to qualify for major tournaments again (all of the last 3 Euros, after never qualifying previously) and has been a steady improvement. Austria also made it out of the group stages in Euro 2020, losing in ET to Italy after a hard fought game.
Of the team that started against France - 6 have directly played for a RB club (Sabitzer, Baumgartner, Laimer, Seiwald, Wöber, Pentz), and that's not counting key players who are out injured such as both Schlagers (Xaver & Alexander) who definitely would be in the First 11. I believe the most RB players in any team for Austria recently was 9 on the pitch at the same time(!).
Oh, and these European Championships are being televised on Servus TV. Which is a television channel owned by ... Red Bull.
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As RB DoF - Ragnick is the one who drilled all those coaches and created the RB "system", that's more the point
Yeah, when you watch Austria you do start to wonder if our squad really is full of uncoachable players? Even though ETH didn’t help himself with the calibre of players he signed, there’s a core of players that seem incapable/unwilling to do what the Austrian players are doing for Rangnick (or the Ajax players for ETH) And until every last one of them is moved on we can expect more of the same.
Only that Ten Hag got almost €400m to sort out said mess. Rangnick was criticized heavily for claiming the squad needed 10 or more new players. Ten Hag acted as if Rangnick was being overly dramatic and has spent a fortune without reallynimproving the situation. His transfers seem inprovised and ill advised and his philosophy unclear.
Now, I don't think Rangnick is good enough as a coach to have United competing with a Guardiola coached City or a Klopp coached Liverpool but I'm pretty sure you would have been much better off with him in an important role (be it as a coach, as a DoF or as a consultant) than you're now since he has clear ideas, a great network and knows how to grow a club sustainably by signing the right players. You wouldn't find him insisting on former players when the asking price is too high since he knows more than enough alternatives at good value for money.
I don't remember those words or anything close to being used by ETH but if that's what he said or thought, Ten Hag wasn't the only one, and if true, he soon learned otherwise.
I don't think he said anything like along those lines publicly but there were reports that he disagreed with Rangnick's "heart surgey and 10 new players" take and didn't want him around any longer. Which is why Rangnick didn't continue in the consultancy role that was originally planned for him.
So he just didn't want to start a new job without an overseer, that's only natural and much less dramatic than your version.
He refused to even consider continuing with Rangnick at the club and was responsible for his departure according to ESPN. Obviously, that had nothing to do with having an overseer since a) Rangnick was intended to be a consultant without any disciplinary responsibilities and b) he had an overseer anyway, just like every professional football coach in the history of the sport. I mean, how many coaches do you know who joined a club at the condition that somebody else leaves?
Which is actually quite funny because he has spent almost €400m since then and brought in more players than even Rangnick demanded over the span of two seasons. Without substantially improving the situation of the club, that is.
I'm sorry, I lack the will to have this debate for eternity.