indeedRaheem Sterling
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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indeedIt never ceases to amaze me how you can follow the train of someone’s thoughts. I’m not going to call any names here, but you’ll see someone’s posts in another thread, on say, immigration, and then come to a thread discussing racism and from the time you see their username, you can almost predict which side of the discussion they’re going to be on. It hasn’t been proven wrong yet
Its very obvious for people who take part on the day in multiple sports, especially ones like Cricket and Tennis.
Football is a 'working class' sport which is another way of saying any idiot can understand and follow games. This leads to the vast majority of fans being uneducated, which means a lot of racists and bigots.
I remember a foreign Liverpool fan explaining it quite nicely. They loved Liverpool to the core, and had followed them for over a decade. But the moment they went to their first game they lost all the attachment they had because the stadium was filled with chavs. You will generally meet a different group of people when going to a football game than you will a Tennis or Golf tournament.
Certainly, but the media certainly do.
It's why people asking why him and not other black English internationals.
Thanks for that explanation. Never understood it. Now I get it. Great tattoo. Not a fan of tattoos but that's a great message.
@JSArsenal - put it better then I ever could.It's not though? Unless I'm reading this completely wrong he said it himself. It's because he shoots with his right foot. That is his "shooter", it's a bit stupid and childish but each to their own.
Have you ever worked behind a bar? The amount of abuse bar staff get is ridiculous, and take into consideration this, these people are not millionaires, they are on minimum wage, and are you a female working behind a bar?
This kind of abuse is rampant in todays society. I have worked behind a bar myself, and society in general is just horrible. People look at what happened in that Chelsea match, and think its down to thugs being racist. It isnt. Its society today. Look at forums, customer service jobs, especially now at christmas, look at the abuse given out to people over the phone because your package hasnt been delivered yet for someone for christmas, or the last time you went to a pub and havent been served in the space of 10 seconds stepping up to the bar without have a snide dig at the person behind the bar.
Its all down to entitlement. Sterling is deserving of this abuse as he is on daft amounts of money doing something he loves. This is the mentality. We have a RIGHT to abuse him as he is earning amounts we never will, its not the fact he plays for the opposition, supporters think the same with there own players when they are not giving 100%. Its an entitlement people feel, the same as bar staff getting abuse for not serving quicker than the beer pump dispenses, paying customers feel they are entitled to give abuse as they are paying customers.
This needs to stop. The entitlement needs to stop. The whole mentality on any kind of verbal abuse is something that needs to be addressed across the whole spectrum. I agree with many of the Chelsea fans, there is no proof the abuse Sterling got was racist, but for me that is not the point, the fact he was shouted and screamed at, abused at a level that I, as a parent, would be heartbroken seeing happen to my kid, or indeed my kids giving the abuse. Its something that needs to be addressed and dealt with. Any abuse, in any kind of form needs to be stamped out. Across all sectors of society, we need to get to the root of these problems.
He’s also light skinned which does make a difference. From my experience, dark skinned black men face a lot more prejudice than mixed race or light skinned black people.
That’s not to say that light skinned and mixed race black men (or women) aren’t regularly victims of racism though.
Great post. But how do you go about eradicating ever growing impatience and entitlement?
You make some good points here, and I agree with most, but why would a 60 year old man call a Jamaican born English player who grew up in London a "Manc Bastard". I'm not buying that for a second from him. You've nailed modern society to a tee though.
To be fair, Beckham was vilified before his alleged affair (which didn’t seem to affect his popularity at all).
The campaign against Beckham was largely based on his red card against Argentina and the fact that he didn’t conform to a traditional working class idea of masculinity. Looking back at a lot of the stuff against Beckham twenty years on, it all reeks of homophobia. There’s a reason why the effigy is wearing a sarong.
Maybe I’m completely wrong here but using “Manc” as an insult seems pretty exclusive to Scousers. Can’t imagine it just slipping off the tongue of a cockney like that.
There is that too, also can you imagine Mane going to take a corner and someone calling his a "scouse bastard". It's just not going to happen imho...
My oldest kid is the most entitled kid of my 3 boys. If anything goes wrong its not his fault, its probably mine. My second oldest just looks at my oldest not with disdain or disgust, just a head shake. He asked me once, how come he never accepts his decisions as his fault? I will be honest, I had no answer.
And yet here are my other two kids who accept that the choices they make are the responsibility they have taken on, the choices they have made, they live with, some are a success, others not so much.
Two years seperate my two oldest kids, my oldest accepts no responsibility for his actions, and yet my second oldest is in full control of his choices. So that kind of cancels out the whole millenial argument. My second oldest is more mature, takes responsibilty for his actions, NEVER blames anyone else for what he chooses to do in life, if he messes up in life, its on him, my oldest however, he has a get out clause, and he uses it a lot.
So to get back to the question, But how do you go about eradicating ever growing impatience and entitlement?
Stop giving them a reason to feel that. Simple. My oldest kid met a girl whose parents gave her everything to be happy, she met my oldest kid, and he was brought into the fold they had, everything they do wrong is not the fault of them, we have all let them down. My oldest kid and his new girlfriend are living amongst money, parents who absolve them of all sins and mistakes, and a lie.
However this isnt the fault of my oldest son, or indeed his girlfriend, or indeed his girlfriends parents, it is down to the government. We live in a country now where we have adpoted the americans attitude of "blame someone else". We dont accept that our actions are wrong, we look for ways to blame someone else, and we are encouraged by our government to do so.
This arrogant attitude has spread to the point that now whatever we do we can accept its not our fault.
How do we eradicate this ever growing impatience and entitlement? Its easy, we need to grow the feck up. Stop blaming everyone else for the feck ups we do.
Footballs responsibility to tackle any and all racism within the game will naturally receive the primary focus of the media in light of recent events but I believe it to be important to first address the broader culture of general abuse and hatred present at all grounds around the country.
Unfortunately, it's clearly accepted as "part of the game" for match going fans to scream abuse at players and officials. I would argue that this environment often becomes sufficiently toxic that a racist is then emboldened to give the type of racial abuse seen recently.
Such fan behavior isn't typically found in other sports and although the reasons for this are surely numerous, I suspect the appalling example set by players to be a major contributor. Unfortunately it may be necessary to temporarily mic up players and then issue retrospective punishment until in-game attitudes improve.
Unfortunately, it's clearly accepted as "part of the game" for match going fans to scream abuse at players and officials. I would argue that this environment often becomes sufficiently toxic that a racist is then emboldened to give the type of racial abuse seen recently.
Such fan behavior isn't typically found in other sports and although the reasons for this are surely numerous, I suspect the appalling example set by players to be a major contributor. Unfortunately it may be necessary to temporarily mic up players and then issue retrospective punishment until in-game attitudes improve.
You make some very good points but we need to be careful here. Fans giving opposition players "the bird" has been part and parcel of the game for decades. It's not a new phenomenon and is down to the tribalistic nature of football. Do we want the sport to become so sanitised that fans aren't allowed to ever dish out any kind of stick to a rival player? Some of the recent stuff that went on around the River Plate v Boca Juniors Copa Libertadores final was bang out of order, but the general spectacle of that particular derby is one of the most revered on the planet due in no small part to the hostile atmosphere generated by both sets of fans, and as such it's on the "bucket list" of many football fans the world over. Do we want to see that hostility and passion completely removed? As a City fan, do I want to see United fans politely applauding Aguero when he smashes in the winner past De Gea at Old Trafford as opposed to them flicking the V sign at him en masse? No chance. Would United and Liverpool fans sooner sit side by side when their teams meet and collectively indulge in a rendition of "I'd like to teach the world to sing"? No chance. People saying that other sports aren't as bad are comparing apples and oranges. Take tennis for example - it's considered bad etiquette if tennis fans cheer when a player serves a double fault. Can you imagine if that was transferred to football? I was at Anfield the other week in the away end when Mahrez sent that penalty into orbit, and the whole of Anfield - bar us City fans of course - understandably erupted into guffaws of laughter. If one was to use the Queensbury rules of tennis, they'd argue that the Liverpool fans were being disrespectful by reacting like that. In any case, I'd argue that in some other sports the abuse can be equally as bad as it is in football. Try being an opposition cricket player fielding in front of the Western Terrace at Headingley for example.
Believe me, it was a damn sight worse in the 70's and 80's, especially the racist stuff, and these days most football fans know where the line is when it comes to giving stick to opposition players so it's a moot point you make. It's those who blatantly cross that line who are the problem - whether that be racist andother forms of discriminatory abuse, or downright offensive shit like those England fans who wished cancer on Beckham's kids some years back.
Regarding the Sterling abuse in particular, I don't hold the behaviour of players responsible. Much of it is down to the gutter press for ramping up the hatred - aided and abetted by Liverpool supporting pundits in the media at the time of his move to City - which in turn has "normalised" the abuse dished out to him by your average neandarthal football fan. It's utterly laughable - but totally unsurprising - that newspapers such as The Scum are trying to wash their hands of what happened at the weekend. The Scum might not have actually fired the gun, but they certainly provided the ammunition.
I've heard it used in London about Man United Fans, players etc. so it could have been used, there was a black guy 3-4 seats away from him you can see in the video who doesn't react...that said I'm still not convinced this guy said "Manc".
Of course football has a history of fairly unpleasant chants in general - are chants like 'arsene wenger is a paedophile' more or less acceptable than racist outbursts ? That is of course a chant which United fans particularly seemed to enjoy singing. Then sung by fans of clubs other than United, what about 'posh spice takes it up the arse' which I seem to recall being sung at Beckham, sometimes whilst his wife was actually at the game
I'm really unsure how I personally would rank that kind of thing compared to racist behaviour. But in the instance of Sterling, I feel more strongly about the media's treatment of him than the abuse at the ground. There is also an argument that his media treatment might encourage the fans treatment at the ground. I have literally no clue as to how Sterling compares the two.
I'm really unsure how I personally would rank that kind of thing compared to racist behaviour. But in the instance of Sterling, I feel more strongly about the media's treatment of him than the abuse at the ground. There is also an argument that his media treatment might encourage the fans treatment at the ground. I have literally no clue as to how Sterling compares the two.
Pedantic point I know but United fans weren't the originators of the Wenger chant - Spurs fans started that one off
To be fair, United fans often chant "you scouse bastard" at games when there is an opposing player who has played for Liverpool at some point. Probably wouldn't happen whilst playing for Liverpool, but if Mane left Liverpool and lined up against us for another club, I'm pretty sure he'd get the same chant once or twice during that game.
If the Chelsea fan called him "Manc" then I could understand it based on how United fans chuck the word "scouse" around. But I don't think he did anyway.
Absolutely - I didn't want to imply that it did. I was just trying to think of one chant that united (amongst others) sang and one that they had sung against them.
Looking back, I think the wenger one seems worse (to me) now than it did at the time. I don't recall whether we (City) sang it or not - as we were so crap at the time, it's not like we were rivals of arsenal so the atmosphere was not confrontational when we played them. Indeed I recall us playing arsenal on several occasions when they were so much better than us that we sang gallows humour songs, like you've only come to watch city..........we really were shit then !
There's a further article on the chelsea 'fan' today that shows him supporting 'racism isn't illegal'.........seems pretty banged to rights on this one
Giggs man.
I wonder whether the treatment Pogba is receiving from our fans is another example of this.
For 8 years. Man, that's low.I still can't get over it
This is exactly why it's so difficult to have a debate and I genuinely cannot be arsed to have one like this for some time.
Is it racism against whites when Matić gets the slack he does? Was it racism when Fellaini got all the unwarranted shit? Was it racism against Shaw too when everybody, myself included, took piss of him and wanted him to feck off?
Hes a sick individual
There is a black guy next to him in the crowd that day surely he would be worth interviewing for his thoughts. I personally think Sterling should have called the ref over immediately and simply stood and pointed at the guy with all camera's there. The game should have stopped whilst action was taken. If the ref didn't act I'd simply walk off and motion a sub action. I really hope this starts to happen. Until games actually stop this retrospective action is little more than what has always happened. Police need to be brought into play immediately within the stadium. Fellow fans around the guilty racists need to point them out. Until the game of football starts to be harmed as a spectacle by actions from everyone there nothing serious will ever change I suspect.
Not you as well?!?
Not you as well?!?
How could he Steve?!
Haven’t read the whole thread, but props to the usual posters who’ve the patience to break things down and go around in circles with people who clearly lack the capability of empathy for the subtle/subconscious racism debate.
It really is quite incredible how people can employ two completely different standards for assessing opposing narratives of a situation, depending on their own preconceived notions. It makes a productive debate/discussion impossible.
Take Sterling being the Yardie father to many children for example. I would assert that the person who puts it down to a standard tabloid story gone innocently wrong due to the media company having being fed a fake report (poor them), has already decided that racism is definitely not at play here before discussion has even begun. One cannot seriously and honestly suggest this as the more viable context, completely ignoring the media company’s willingness to run with a completely unconfirmed story painting the picture of the ‘archetypal’ Jamaican man with multiple sexual partners/baby mothers - or basically a dysfunctional young black man. Remind me what Sterling has done to deserve such denigration again?
No one is saying that the moment a person of colour shouts racism, it is expected it should automatically ring true without requiring evidence. The above however, requires jumping through some hoops to come to the conclusion that racism is not at play.
It really is quite incredible how people can employ two completely different standards for assessing opposing narratives of a situation, depending on their own preconceived notions. It makes a productive debate/discussion impossible.
Take Sterling being the Yardie father to many children for example. I would assert that the person who puts it down to a standard tabloid story gone innocently wrong due to the media company having being fed a fake report (poor them), has already decided that racism is definitely not at play here before discussion has even begun. One cannot seriously and honestly suggest this as the more viable context, completely ignoring the media company’s willingness to run with a completely unconfirmed story painting the picture of the ‘archetypal’ Jamaican man with multiple sexual partners/baby mothers - or basically a dysfunctional young black man. Remind me what Sterling has done to deserve such denigration again?
No one is saying that the moment a person of colour shouts racism, it is expected it should automatically ring true without requiring evidence. The above however, requires jumping through some hoops to come to the conclusion that racism is not at play.
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I’ve been reading the last few pages of this thread and, honestly, some of you just don’t get it and you never will.
As @villain has said many times in threads such as these, a lot of you seem to think that racism starts and stops at outright, blatantly calling a black person a ‘nigger.’
As @villain has said many times in threads such as these, a lot of you seem to think that racism starts and stops at outright, blatantly calling a black person a ‘nigger.’
Nah, I use it and im from London (not a cockney, thats people from a very specific part of East London).
I used to work with a Manc twat and called him a Manc twat all the time.
The black dude 3-4 seats away had probably heard worse every week for 10 years, sadly.
Completely agree.
Especially odd when the poster in point (@SquishyMcSquish ) supports a club who a few weeks ago had a supporter throwing a fecking banana skin at Aubameyang...!
Incredible to witness something like that a few weeks ago and then wade in to a topic like this with the type of posts and attitude he has displayed on the subject.
What the feck does that have to do with anything? I never stated that racists don't exist (like the moron who threw a banana on the pitch) so it's completely irrelevant to the discussion that was being had about Sterling's case. Had I been sat here disputing the existence of racism in the United Kingdom, you might have a point.
The type of 'attitude' I've displayed is to not immediately accept the ongoing narrative and to suggest that there are other factors at play. I find it more incredible that a poster like you (who has added nothing to this discussion, zilch) feels so comfortable on your high horse of moral superiority that you can come in here and start questioning other peoples attitudes. I'll say it again, I've seen some of what you have written in the past and I won't be lectured on attitudes or ignorance by you.
You're not the only one though. Plenty in this thread who feel able to misrepresent what has been said and brand others ignorant for even slightly questioning the situation. It's seriously boring and I can see why others would simply not wade in to such topics on here when it's basically a case of conform to the narrative or you will be insulted. Dare to suggest other factors are at play, or that everything can't be immediately put down to racism and you're ignorant and don't understand the topic. How is this remotely conducive to a good debating environment?
If you (or anybody else) does feel I or others are wrong in our position, then argue that. Others have managed to do sensibly in this thread despite the topic being close to their heart. Don't come in with petty, pointless tags having a dig at my attitude, when from the start I've been open to debate about the topic. Your attitude has been to come in and make shit posts completely misrepresenting the discussion (One of your very first was to make out people were quoting Ben Shapiro and Piers Morgan, when neither had even been mentioned) because let's face it, as soon as you entered the thread you were going to take shots at anybody arguing against the narrative.