Raheem Sterling

Sometimes people with black skin are just fcuking idiots. It’s ok for that to be the case.

Sterling, Sol, Collymore, Ince.

All have some thoughts that I wouldn’t disagree with and could get behind.

But most of the time they’re just insufferable.

It’s not because they’re black. It’s just because they’re dickheads.

There are HUNDREDS of white talking heads and footballers that get the full force of peoples ire.

That there are a handful of prominent black faces that get treated for the twats that they are, is not racism.

Sterling is right in his point about the Mail articles. But he’s still a bell end.

Gullit, Jenas, Hasselbaink, Barnes, Dublin, Ferdinand, King, James, Lescott, Defoe, Salako, Kamara are all pretty well received in the game, in print and by audiences. Some better than others but that’s no more or less true than the white faces. Shock, Horror... the less of an ass you are, the more people like you.

I DO believe that Sterling gets a bad deal at times. But I think it’s wholly disingenuous to put it down to race and ignore character.


What the actual!

What has Sterling done to deserve being labelled the same as those knobs? You believed everything that has been printed by our great british press? That's the nub of the matter and you completly fell for it all! And Sterling is the bellend?
 
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Shock horror as tabloids run with smear story, must automatically be racism as no young white player has ever been the victim of the tabloid press.

It was a stupid, shit rumour which spread because the internet loves this kind of shit.

literally no one has said white players never receive smear stories by the media. we're talking about the consistency and degree of it attributed to black players.

Neville also made a good point last night about it, that whilst players like gazza, beckham and rooney were criticised at times, they were also hero worshiped when they did well - sterling struggles to receive that kind of hero worship.
 
he was talking about the gangs themselves, not the victims. answer his question properly.
so religion isn't mentioned. exactly.
The ethnicity of the gangs themselves would be the absolute central issue if the gangs were white and the victims were muslim. Which they never are. Address the broader issue.
Religion isn't mentioned if the perpetrator doesn't explicitly proclaim an affiliation.
 
literally no one has said white players never receive smear stories by the media. we're talking about the consistency and degree of it attributed to black players.

Neville also made a good point last night about it, that whilst players like gazza, beckham and rooney were criticised at times, they were also hero worshiped when they did well - sterling struggles to receive that kind of hero worship.

Sterling has literally never done well in an England shirt. Except for that one time he scored twice against Spain.

He's been utterly gash in every tournament in his international career, and mostly shit in qualifiers. Scores like one goal every 500 games. The players you mentioned all had great moments/tournaments for England, and thus were hero worshipped and seen as talismans despite their questionable personal lives. If Sterling helped win us a World Cup or scored a free kick to qualify us like Beckham did, you'd see plenty more worship of him.
 
literally no one has said white players never receive smear stories by the media. we're talking about the consistency and degree of it attributed to black players.

Neville also made a good point last night about it, that whilst players like gazza, beckham and rooney were criticised at times, they were also hero worshiped when they did well - sterling struggles to receive that kind of hero worship.

Becks and Rooney were destroyed whenever fit when it came to the NT and their performances. When Sterling was criticised for not scoring/assisting goals there were about millions of articles, dissecting every part of play, explaining how it's fine that he doesn't score/assist as a forward because he's helping the other players around him and it's all down to Southgates brilliance.

Go figure.
 
oh right, yeah, that one time.

are you denying that gangs and terrorists are more commonly referred to by their muslim religious affiliation than their white counterparts?

How often do white terrorists proclaim to do God's work compared to their Muslim counterparts? There's your answer.
 
he was talking about the gangs themselves, not the victims. answer his question properly.



so religion isn't mentioned. exactly.

Well it could do something with Jihad, screaming Allahu Akbar when killing people around you and all that funny stuff. Cannot recall the last time somebody screamed 'Jesus is great' when killing people, you can place other gods/deities in place of Jesus.

If you, however, need an example of generalisation in relation to Christians, then every priest of a Catholic Church is perceived as a filthy paedophile due to numerous scandals, cover ups and other disgusting cases. Friendly reminder that CC is not just the priests but the people who profess this faith, which makes every member of a CC (myself included) a paedo.
 
How often do white terrorists proclaim to do God's work compared to their Muslim counterparts? There's your answer.
Ask the victims of shootings at abortion clinics by right wing nutjobs.
 
I think there are undertones of racism from SOME journalists. Probably a few at Daily Mail but you would have to search through loads of articles. However it's the generalisation that the whole media does this which is unfair. Call out the individuals who write the story you have a problem with and lets get to the bottom of it.

From what I read about Sterling buying his mum a house story, it was written just after Euros. It's negative but it seemed more a of dig that he was over the disappointment already and the house was tacky. I don't think this type of article would be any different if it was a white player and written by that journalist.

The Phil Foden one - it's a little different to compare against. Foden is not an international playing for England, has barely played a game. He hasn't had time to build up a reputation and Journalists were excited to see what he will become. Rashford had a similar story written about him when he bought his mum a house in August just after the Euros, it was all positive because Journalists were excited about the young player and his breakthrough.
 
I don't think 'all' black footballers have to come out, I just don't think that because other black footballers have come out and spoken it automatically means their position is correct and shouldn't be questioned. I'm pretty sure I could get a bunch of white guys to come out and say shit you'd disagree with, would you automatically have to agree with their position because you couldn't possible understand the white experience? I've also NEVER suggested racism does not 'exist here', merely questioned the extent to which the media has had a racist agenda against Sterling.

A bunch of stories likely got sold by Sterling by people around him, the tabloids ran with those stories and then shock horror the stories stopped when he came out and silenced them. What more is there to say here? There are plenty of examples of rumours about footballers getting viewed as fact until they get rubbished. I'm not saying that stereotypes can't play a part in rumours coming about, but I also think that if someone approached the media with similar stories about a young white goldenboy, they would publish that too.

I don't disagree, again I really don't give a feck what money footballers demand. They're perfectly entitled to seek whatever wages they feel they are owed as a crucial part of a multi billion dollar business. But equally, people being money hungry in society has long since been frowned upon and this is not something that is going to change. Players across the football world get stick for making money motivated moves, people generally prefer individuals who have 'purer' motivations like love for the game, family, all that jazz. That's just something people prefer, and the media buy in to that.

The biggest factor is his move at a young age from one of the countries most popular clubs (with lots of media representation) to an oil rich club, with plenty of stories at the time emerging that he was demanding huge wages. That immediately set the narrative that he was a typical greedy, flashy young footballer with no respect for Liverpool (I seem to remember stories about him refusing to train?) and that's a narrative which is hard to wash out. He's also a very high profile England international so is naturally going to be the target of loads of shit stories like him eating breakfast or getting on a cheap flight. Look around, plenty of similar articles about white players. John Stones got an entire one about his new house for feck sake.

Shit like him getting an assault rifle tattooed on his leg was hardly going to help that, if Kane turned up tomorrow in training with an ak47 across his arm does anybody genuinely believe the media wouldn't react to it because he's white?

We're on the topic of racism here, it's not equivalent to 'a bunch of white guys saying stuff I disagree with'. It's more comparable with the Jewish community saying something is antisemitic - i'm not going to sit here and tell them they're wrong, or the degree of antisemitism is small or I disagree that antisemitism is the main factor - it's simply not my place because I don't know what it's like to experience antisemitism, so how would I know?

'stories likely got sold'? is there proof of this? If not, I don't understand why you're relying on literal made-up excuses rather than believing racism is at play here.
Also that particular story was ran for years by multiple outlets, that's not something that gets 'sold', it's something that the newspapers made up - and making up a story that plays on racial stereotypes is motivated by what, if it's not racism?

Being money-hungry isn't reason for years of abuse though is it?
Gerrard flirted with Chelsea & Madrid for a couple of years and while that was going on, he wasn't at the mercy of the newspapers like Sterling was.

Him getting an assault rifle tattooed was in tribute to his father passing away at the hands of gun violence, and his right foot being his 'shooter' alluding to it being dangerous given his talents with it. There's nothing wrong with the tattoo - the idea that there is something wrong with it has also been perpetuated by the media.

Kane literally swore on his baby's life that he scored a goal in order to get it to count towards his goal-tally, and it turns out that he didn't even touch the ball. The press didn't care though - social media cared, and on twitter a lot of people made the comparison between Kane's treatment and Pogba & Sterling's treatment and turned that into memes, but the newspapers didn't care.
 
We're on the topic of racism here, it's not equivalent to 'a bunch of white guys saying stuff I disagree with'. It's more comparable with the Jewish community saying something is antisemitic - i'm not going to sit here and tell them they're wrong, or the degree of antisemitism is small or I disagree that antisemitism is the main factor - it's simply not my place because I don't know what it's like to experience antisemitism, so how would I know?

'stories likely got sold'? is there proof of this? If not, I don't understand why you're relying on literal made-up excuses rather than believing racism is at play here.
Also that particular story was ran for years by multiple outlets, that's not something that gets 'sold', it's something that the newspapers made up - and making up a story that plays on racial stereotypes is motivated by what, if it's not racism?

Being money-hungry isn't reason for years of abuse though is it?
Gerrard flirted with Chelsea & Madrid for a couple of years and while that was going on, he wasn't at the mercy of the newspapers like Sterling was.

Him getting an assault rifle tattooed was in tribute to his father passing away at the hands of gun violence, and his right foot being his 'shooter' alluding to it being dangerous given his talents with it. There's nothing wrong with the tattoo - the idea that there is something wrong with it has also been perpetuated by the media.

Kane literally swore on his baby's life that he scored a goal in order to get it to count towards his goal-tally, and it turns out that he didn't even touch the ball. The press didn't care though - social media cared, and on twitter a lot of people made the comparison between Kane's treatment and Pogba & Sterling's treatment and turned that into memes, but the newspapers didn't care.

Reading Villain in this 'debate' is like watching Roger Federer armed with a swatter in a room full of flies...

Like watching evolution in progress.

'But, but Ben Shapiro said...' *swat*

'Yeah, yeah, but Piers Morgan has a poin...' *swat*
 
Reading Villain in this 'debate' is like watching Roger Federer armed with a swatter in a room full of flies...

Like watching evolution in progress.


'But, but Ben Shapiro said...' *swat*

'Yeah, yeah, but Piers Morgan has a poin...' *swat*

Where would you fall on this scale? I hear there are worms which we share 70% of our genetic code with, I reckon I could get one of those to add more to the debate than you do.

You're the left wing equivalent of the 12 year olds in the comment section of a Ben Shapiro video screaming 'LIBERAL GETS OWNED!!!!!', so congratulations for that I guess. Is it comfortable having crawled so far up that ass?
 
literally no one has said white players never receive smear stories by the media. we're talking about the consistency and degree of it attributed to black players.

Neville also made a good point last night about it, that whilst players like gazza, beckham and rooney were criticised at times, they were also hero worshiped when they did well - sterling struggles to receive that kind of hero worship.

Man City barely have any fans and plenty of players to worship!

For England Sterling has been so shite it's hard to understand given his exceptional Man City form.

I heard Cole as the other player raised and to say he wasnt worshiped is nonsense. Hell even as a rival player I've always admired Coles quality.
 
We're on the topic of racism here, it's not equivalent to 'a bunch of white guys saying stuff I disagree with'. It's more comparable with the Jewish community saying something is antisemitic - i'm not going to sit here and tell them they're wrong, or the degree of antisemitism is small or I disagree that antisemitism is the main factor - it's simply not my place because I don't know what it's like to experience antisemitism, so how would I know?

'stories likely got sold'? is there proof of this? If not, I don't understand why you're relying on literal made-up excuses rather than believing racism is at play here.
Also that particular story was ran for years by multiple outlets, that's not something that gets 'sold', it's something that the newspapers made up - and making up a story that plays on racial stereotypes is motivated by what, if it's not racism?

Being money-hungry isn't reason for years of abuse though is it?
Gerrard flirted with Chelsea & Madrid for a couple of years and while that was going on, he wasn't at the mercy of the newspapers like Sterling was.

Him getting an assault rifle tattooed was in tribute to his father passing away at the hands of gun violence, and his right foot being his 'shooter' alluding to it being dangerous given his talents with it. There's nothing wrong with the tattoo - the idea that there is something wrong with it has also been perpetuated by the media.

Kane literally swore on his baby's life that he scored a goal in order to get it to count towards his goal-tally, and it turns out that he didn't even touch the ball. The press didn't care though - social media cared, and on twitter a lot of people made the comparison between Kane's treatment and Pogba & Sterling's treatment and turned that into memes, but the newspapers didn't care.

How about if a white guy came out and made claims that racism against white people was inherent in society? There's plenty of loons out there that would claim there was a Jewish conspiracy oppressing them, how can you say otherwise? You couldn't possibly understand their experience. Just because people belong to a certain group, does not mean nobody can possibly question any claims they make. That is the worst form of identity politics and all it does is suppress any kind of intelligent debate.

What's that, putting across a possible alternative rather than immediately assuming racism is at play? Shocker. I think it's perfectly likely that somebody close to Sterling came out and made claims about his personal life which the tabloids latched on to. This happens all of the time in football. Once on paper reports it, others will also do so and it starts to be viewed as common fact, hence why he had to come out and deny the rumours. I'm sure that there are journalists at certain outlets who are racially motivated, but this isn't immediate proof that there is a media conspiracy against Sterling.

If Gerrard had moved to Chelsea he would have received tons of abuse, I'm pretty sure he even received threats from Liverpool fans when he was on the verge of leaving. It's not like Sterling has received constant abuse in the media since leaving either (unless you count stories about his dirty car or him eating breakfast abuse), this whole debate reared its head again after he got a controversial tattoo. And there was more people defending the tattoo than there were people saying it was inappropriate.

The media weren't aware of the backstory of the tattoo, and once it emerged they piped down and Sterling got shit tons of support from most people. A high profile player getting a gun across his leg was bound to cause a stir regardless of race, what exactly do people expect? There's nothing wrong with it but the media knew it would generate clicks.

Kane got ripped to fecking shreds for claiming a goal, and there have been plenty of articles written suggesting he is greedy. No doubt that he's a bit of a protected figure by the mainstream media though, like I've previously said his personality type (pretty reserved family guy, has stayed at one club after coming through the ranks) is simply more likely to generate a different narrative. If he got a gun tattooed down his leg and moved to City at 21, I'm pretty sure the mainstream media would have torn in to him as well.
 
We're on the topic of racism here, it's not equivalent to 'a bunch of white guys saying stuff I disagree with'. It's more comparable with the Jewish community saying something is antisemitic - i'm not going to sit here and tell them they're wrong, or the degree of antisemitism is small or I disagree that antisemitism is the main factor - it's simply not my place because I don't know what it's like to experience antisemitism, so how would I know?

'stories likely got sold'? is there proof of this? If not, I don't understand why you're relying on literal made-up excuses rather than believing racism is at play here.
Also that particular story was ran for years by multiple outlets, that's not something that gets 'sold', it's something that the newspapers made up - and making up a story that plays on racial stereotypes is motivated by what, if it's not racism?

Being money-hungry isn't reason for years of abuse though is it?
Gerrard flirted with Chelsea & Madrid for a couple of years and while that was going on, he wasn't at the mercy of the newspapers like Sterling was.

Him getting an assault rifle tattooed was in tribute to his father passing away at the hands of gun violence, and his right foot being his 'shooter' alluding to it being dangerous given his talents with it. There's nothing wrong with the tattoo - the idea that there is something wrong with it has also been perpetuated by the media.

Kane literally swore on his baby's life that he scored a goal in order to get it to count towards his goal-tally, and it turns out that he didn't even touch the ball. The press didn't care though - social media cared, and on twitter a lot of people made the comparison between Kane's treatment and Pogba & Sterling's treatment and turned that into memes, but the newspapers didn't care.

The talk of the gun being a tribute to his dad is honestly so stupid it's hard to comprehend.

Would you get a tattoo of one of the following as a tribute to a loved one....

Pills to tribute an overdose
A car crash scene to tribute a loss this way
A ISIS fighter with a machete to show a head cut off
A person dying in bed to show cancer
A pained face with a hand held on the heart to reflect a heart attack

If he wanted to reflect how dangerous guns are at least have a say no to guns sign or a stop sign type picture through it.

I'm sorry but this kind of thing just encourages a lack of respect.

The irony is his intentions to explain the danger of guns might be sound and reasonable, but the execution is not there. He just looks like a wanna be gangster and if anything seems to be encouraging guns.
 
How about if a white guy came out and made claims that racism against white people was inherent in society? There's plenty of loons out there that would claim there was a Jewish conspiracy oppressing them, how can you say otherwise? You couldn't possibly understand their experience. Just because people belong to a certain group, does not mean nobody can possibly question any claims they make. That is the worst form of identity politics and all it does is suppress any kind of intelligent debate.

What's that, putting across a possible alternative rather than immediately assuming racism is at play? Shocker. I think it's perfectly likely that somebody close to Sterling came out and made claims about his personal life which the tabloids latched on to. This happens all of the time in football. Once on paper reports it, others will also do so and it starts to be viewed as common fact, hence why he had to come out and deny the rumours. I'm sure that there are journalists at certain outlets who are racially motivated, but this isn't immediate proof that there is a media conspiracy against Sterling.

If Gerrard had moved to Chelsea he would have received tons of abuse, I'm pretty sure he even received threats from Liverpool fans when he was on the verge of leaving. It's not like Sterling has received constant abuse in the media since leaving either (unless you count stories about his dirty car or him eating breakfast abuse), this whole debate reared its head again after he got a controversial tattoo. And there was more people defending the tattoo than there were people saying it was inappropriate.

The media weren't aware of the backstory of the tattoo, and once it emerged they piped down and Sterling got shit tons of support from most people. A high profile player getting a gun across his leg was bound to cause a stir regardless of race, what exactly do people expect? There's nothing wrong with it but the media knew it would generate clicks.

Kane got ripped to fecking shreds for claiming a goal, and there have been plenty of articles written suggesting he is greedy. No doubt that he's a bit of a protected figure by the mainstream media though, like I've previously said his personality type (pretty reserved family guy, has stayed at one club after coming through the ranks) is simply more likely to generate a different narrative. If he got a gun tattooed down his leg and moved to City at 21, I'm pretty sure the mainstream media would have torn in to him as well.
If white men had been oppressed for centuries and as a society we had decided that oppression no longer existed, and then a group of white men stated they were still being oppressed then yes, as a non white male I would believe them and say I couldn't understand their experience.

But if a group of white men came out and said they're being oppressed, after centuries of being top dogs, as a non white man I'd tell them to feck off.

You are the worst type of debater in topics like this. You, a white man, would rather play devils advocate or make excuses than admit maybe the minorities complaining about racism are on to something.
 
What's that, putting across a possible alternative rather than immediately assuming racism is at play? Shocker.

It seems kind of strange that your default assumption is that racism is not at play given the incredibly racist history of this country and, in particular, the newspapers we are talking about here. Those are the kind of benevolent assumptions that people of colour don't have the luxury of making unfortunately.
 
If white men had been oppressed for centuries and as a society we had decided that oppression no longer existed, and then a group of white men stated they were still being oppressed then yes, as a non white male I would believe them and say I couldn't understand their experience.

But if a group of white men came out and said they're being oppressed, after centuries of being top dogs, as a non white man I'd tell them to feck off.

You are the worst type of debater in topics like this. You, a white man, would rather play devils advocate or make excuses than admit maybe the minorities complaining about racism are on to something.

The basis of the argument is that because some black people are claiming something to do with race, we should automatically say they're absolutely correct .. without even questioning it because we couldn't possibly comprehend their experience as white guys.

I don't agree, I think it's perfectly possible to objectively analyse how somebody else has been treated, I don't think you have to be an ethnic minority to understand racism for example. To me, to simply exclude entire races from a conversation and to immediately assume that certain people know what they're talking about because of their race is simply the worst form of identity politics and I have no time for it. Like I've already said, Sol Campbell made a bunch of outrageous, bitter claims about racism which were simply not true.

I'm the 'worst kind of debater' because what? I don't simply take what people say at face value and would rather explore the topic? I'd say the worst kind is anybody who shuts down the debate by saying nobody else could possibly comment on it. I'm not saying the minorities don't have any point, or that racism doesn't exist, I'm merely arguing the extent to which this is true. You can disagree with that and think there is a racist agenda from the media towards players like Sterling, but don't expect me to automatically agree with you just because you're a minority.
 
From what I read about Sterling buying his mum a house story, it was written just after Euros. It's negative but it seemed more a of dig that he was over the disappointment already and the house was tacky. I don't think this type of article would be any different if it was a white player and written by that journalist.
They splashed it all over the front page though. Just one week after the EU referendum and yet this is what they consider to be the most pressing news of the day. This particular journalist has form for writing about players and their 'bling', as much as people think that word is innocuous it's a clear dog whistle.
 
The talk of the gun being a tribute to his dad is honestly so stupid it's hard to comprehend.

Would you get a tattoo of one of the following as a tribute to a loved one....

Pills to tribute an overdose
A car crash scene to tribute a loss this way
A ISIS fighter with a machete to show a head cut off
A person dying in bed to show cancer
A pained face with a hand held on the heart to reflect a heart attack

If he wanted to reflect how dangerous guns are at least have a say no to guns sign or a stop sign type picture through it.

I'm sorry but this kind of thing just encourages a lack of respect.

The irony is his intentions to explain the danger of guns might be sound and reasonable, but the execution is not there. He just looks like a wanna be gangster and if anything seems to be encouraging guns.

The thing about tattoos as a form of expression is that there is only one person who’s opinion on it matters, and that is the person getting the tattoo. It doesn’t matter if you think it’s stupid, because it has no meaning to you. If you think it’s stupid then don’t get one. Nobody cares what you think about that being his idea of a tribute to his father, because it is HIS tribute.
 
How about if a white guy came out and made claims that racism against white people was inherent in society? There's plenty of loons out there that would claim there was a Jewish conspiracy oppressing them, how can you say otherwise? You couldn't possibly understand their experience. Just because people belong to a certain group, does not mean nobody can possibly question any claims they make. That is the worst form of identity politics and all it does is suppress any kind of intelligent debate.

What's that, putting across a possible alternative rather than immediately assuming racism is at play? Shocker. I think it's perfectly likely that somebody close to Sterling came out and made claims about his personal life which the tabloids latched on to. This happens all of the time in football. Once on paper reports it, others will also do so and it starts to be viewed as common fact, hence why he had to come out and deny the rumours. I'm sure that there are journalists at certain outlets who are racially motivated, but this isn't immediate proof that there is a media conspiracy against Sterling.

If Gerrard had moved to Chelsea he would have received tons of abuse, I'm pretty sure he even received threats from Liverpool fans when he was on the verge of leaving. It's not like Sterling has received constant abuse in the media since leaving either (unless you count stories about his dirty car or him eating breakfast abuse), this whole debate reared its head again after he got a controversial tattoo. And there was more people defending the tattoo than there were people saying it was inappropriate.

The media weren't aware of the backstory of the tattoo, and once it emerged they piped down and Sterling got shit tons of support from most people. A high profile player getting a gun across his leg was bound to cause a stir regardless of race, what exactly do people expect? There's nothing wrong with it but the media knew it would generate clicks.

Kane got ripped to fecking shreds for claiming a goal, and there have been plenty of articles written suggesting he is greedy. No doubt that he's a bit of a protected figure by the mainstream media though, like I've previously said his personality type (pretty reserved family guy, has stayed at one club after coming through the ranks) is simply more likely to generate a different narrative. If he got a gun tattooed down his leg and moved to City at 21, I'm pretty sure the mainstream media would have torn in to him as well.

Tell me how it's possible to be white, in a majority white country and claim that there is inherent racism against white people in society? You're just saying things just to disagree with the main point here, rather than saying things that make sense. I'm not denying that there are extreme cases where any individual can hold a particularly niche view - that happens with every topic.
What i'm saying is that for years, a lot of black people - athletes or otherwise have spoken about the treatment that famous black people get in comparison to the treatment that famous white people get, not just in this country but we'll stick to the UK for the purposes of this debate.
That's not a niche view, these are things which have been spoken about, written about and can be seen with your own eyes - for years. Once again - it's not comparable to someone saying something outlandish, just because they have the ability to do so. The Jewish community have continually spoken about antisemitism in the media - are they loons? No of course not. Is it something that i've seen and can personally understand? No, but i'm not the one who's the target, so of course from my perspective I don't understand what that community is speaking on, it doesn't mean that what they are saying isn't true or its 'identity politics', and if I spoke out and said that what they're saying isn't true I wouldn't be igniting intelligent debate - i'd just look like a prick, and rightfully so.

There's no point 'putting across a possible alternative' if all you're doing is making things up. Unless you have evidence of 'somebody close to Sterling' making claims about his personal life, then there's no point debating with you if you're going to sit there and argue any hypothetical, made up story just to try and prove yourself to be right. Either bring evidence or don't make things up.
So once again - on a story that plays on a racial stereotype, what is the main motivator if it's not race?

The fact that the media weren't aware of the backstory is pretty much the point - instead they ran stories about him growing as part of gang culture - then when he showed them the motivation behind the tattoo they rightfully backed down however the damage was done by then, and most people don't know the reason of the gun tattoo even to this day.
Once you add that to the history of stories made about him and his money, it all begins to paint a very clear picture - but i'm sure to you it's normal and race has absolutely no motivation behind it, his 'personality is just wrong', right? Once again, remind me what personality he has, I don't think you answered that previously.


The talk of the gun being a tribute to his dad is honestly so stupid it's hard to comprehend.

Would you get a tattoo of one of the following as a tribute to a loved one....

Pills to tribute an overdose
A car crash scene to tribute a loss this way
A ISIS fighter with a machete to show a head cut off
A person dying in bed to show cancer
A pained face with a hand held on the heart to reflect a heart attack

If he wanted to reflect how dangerous guns are at least have a say no to guns sign or a stop sign type picture through it.

I'm sorry but this kind of thing just encourages a lack of respect.

The irony is his intentions to explain the danger of guns might be sound and reasonable, but the execution is not there. He just looks like a wanna be gangster and if anything seems to be encouraging guns.

Screen-Shot-2018-05-28-at-230345.jpg


Indeed, what a horrible wannabe gangster Sterling is.
 
The basis of the argument is that because some black people are claiming something to do with race, we should automatically say they're absolutely correct .. without even questioning it because we couldn't possibly comprehend their experience as white guys.

I don't agree, I think it's perfectly possible to objectively analyse how somebody else has been treated, I don't think you have to be an ethnic minority to understand racism for example. To me, to simply exclude entire races from a conversation and to immediately assume that certain people know what they're talking about because of their race is simply the worst form of identity politics and I have no time for it. Like I've already said, Sol Campbell made a bunch of outrageous, bitter claims about racism which were simply not true.

I'm the 'worst kind of debater' because what? I don't simply take what people say at face value and would rather explore the topic? I'd say the worst kind is anybody who shuts down the debate by saying nobody else could possibly comment on it. I'm not saying the minorities don't have any point, or that racism doesn't exist, I'm merely arguing the extent to which this is true. You can disagree with that and think there is a racist agenda from the media towards players like Sterling, but don't expect me to automatically agree with you just because you're a minority.
Sure, you can objectively analyse it. But when people who have experienced this are telling you maybe you're wrong, you aren't taking any of their arguments on board.

The way you're coming across is that you've got a pre-conceived notion that this isn't racist and nothing is going to convince you otherwise. You aren't interested in learning why minorities feel it's racist or why our experiences shape our views in this way.

Case in point - the false story about Sterling having multiple children with multiple women. You were told this is a negative stereotype about Jamaican men and the media deciding to print this story comes across racist. Your response? Nah, someone close to Sterling probably sold them the story.

Based on absolutely nothing you'd rather pull an excuse out of thin air than accept maybe it is a racially based negative stereotype.
 
People should not feel so confident with the apparent strength of alt-right in this specific decade. In few years the law and the technology will allow companies to track all your activities in the internet in detaIls. You can't really delete nothing.

Those who are now flirting with neo nazi ideas, making lame excuses for racism and feel empowered by the success of the evil in our time, will be marginalized in the market, meanwhile their gurus like Shapiro, Stefan Molineaux, etc will be there spending the millions they made teaching you to hate your own class due to race, religion or nationality.
 
The Sun's response to all this btw



Sounds like a few arguments put forward in here.

Lets look at some of their reports of his 'off-field behaviour'

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He's been called an idiot, a drug dealer, a money flaunter, lazy and implied father of multiple children.
Yeah, totally normal
 
How often do white terrorists proclaim to do God's work compared to their Muslim counterparts? There's your answer.

Maybe you're really young or something but a certain George W. Bush destroyed a country of poor brown people because (amongst other reasons) God told him to do so.

Also don't see why it matters why they do it if the end result is the same but that's another discussion for another thread.
 
Are you joking? just search Sterling and Phil Thompson/Mark Lawrenson/John Barnes/Aldridge any of those and you can see the hatred start up in April 2015 and it continued all the way. Scousers are not responsible for the racism, but sure are for the relentless hatred when he moved.

Even better, search google trends, most associated words are "number of kids" Wives, and the vast majority coming from Liverpool. You guys just couldnt let it go, even now the hatred from him manifests like this "We dont hate him but his personality is shit" - You don't even know his personality, only what is presented in the media, by your pundits.

He's obviously disliked for leaving the club in a distasteful manner, as has been seen with many footballers. See Sol Campbell, RVP, Owen, Torres etc

But even then I'd argue that the reaction hasn't been that strong in comparison to someone like Owen who is detested to this day, or Torres who got dogs abuse for years at Anfield.

It's been helped by the fact that we've replaced him pretty adequately and he wasn't exactly world class when he left.

Rather than despising his personality, a lot of the comments from Liverpool people in the press since he's left can be associated with the feeling of ruing a missed opportunity to have a top young player at the club that we developed, rather than any intrinsic hatred towards the individual. It was/is stuff like 'he will regret this', 'his agent has led him down the wrong path' and 'he should have given us a chance' rather than 'he is a disgusting flashy cnut'. If you don't agree then I implore you to find an example of the character assassinations you're suggesting went on.

I really fail to see the link between the reaction to him leaving Liverpool and the constant current harassment of Sterling by the media. Especially when you consider that the paper of the forefront of this campaign has so often been the Sun. That famously pro Liverpool paper, eh?

Regarding the number of kids rumour; that's something that's existed well before he joined Manchester City - see the tweet I posted last night.
 
why must a grooming gang be referred to as muslim?
commonality of religion, commonality of victim. the numberless rapes are unprecedented among other "minority" groups and have a cultural/racial aspect that narrative testament which includes description of racial abuse from the thousands of victims will bear out.
 
I don't know how @villain does it. I don't have the psychological strength to argue with someone about what I can and cannot feel is racist behaviour towards me as a black man.
 
Tell me how it's possible to be white, in a majority white country and claim that there is inherent racism against white people in society? You're just saying things just to disagree with the main point here, rather than saying things that make sense. I'm not denying that there are extreme cases where any individual can hold a particularly niche view - that happens with every topic.
What i'm saying is that for years, a lot of black people - athletes or otherwise have spoken about the treatment that famous black people get in comparison to the treatment that famous white people get, not just in this country but we'll stick to the UK for the purposes of this debate.
That's not a niche view, these are things which have been spoken about, written about and can be seen with your own eyes - for years. Once again - it's not comparable to someone saying something outlandish, just because they have the ability to do so. The Jewish community have continually spoken about antisemitism in the media - are they loons? No of course not. Is it something that i've seen and can personally understand? No, but i'm not the one who's the target, so of course from my perspective I don't understand what that community is speaking on, it doesn't mean that what they are saying isn't true or its 'identity politics', and if I spoke out and said that what they're saying isn't true I wouldn't be igniting intelligent debate - i'd just look like a prick, and rightfully so.

There's no point 'putting across a possible alternative' if all you're doing is making things up. Unless you have evidence of 'somebody close to Sterling' making claims about his personal life, then there's no point debating with you if you're going to sit there and argue any hypothetical, made up story just to try and prove yourself to be right. Either bring evidence or don't make things up.
So once again - on a story that plays on a racial stereotype, what is the main motivator if it's not race?

The fact that the media weren't aware of the backstory is pretty much the point - instead they ran stories about him growing as part of gang culture - then when he showed them the motivation behind the tattoo they rightfully backed down however the damage was done by then, and most people don't know the reason of the gun tattoo even to this day.
Once you add that to the history of stories made about him and his money, it all begins to paint a very clear picture - but i'm sure to you it's normal and race has absolutely no motivation behind it, his 'personality is just wrong', right? Once again, remind me what personality he has, I don't think you answered that previously.

Plenty of people would claim that this is possible. There are plenty of historical examples where people truly believed a small ethnic minority were manipulating the rest, and often they reacted to this with violence. Historically these haven't even been niche views, just because a lot of people of a certain race believe a certain thing about the way they are being treated, does not automatically make it entirely true. I'm also not saying that black athletes across the country have no point, or that racism has been eradicated in the nation. I'm certain that there are certain articles written about Sterling which have been motivated by racist believes held by certain journalists. I'm just not as quick as others are to immediately brand all of the media attention he's received as being racially motivated, I genuinely believe that a vast majority of what has been aimed at him would have occurred regardless of race.

Nobody is calling anybody loons, I can understand why Sterling and others feel targeted. I'm not portraying them as foolish or insane, I'm merely putting across an opposing view. If somebody Jewish claimed something about anti semitism you'd look like a prick if you claimed they were wrong? How? Why? What if you had meticulously researched the topic for years and were an expert on anti semitism, would you still be incapable of commenting on it unless you happened to be Jewish?

Ok, do you have any concrete evidence that the media reported that story because they are racist? No? Then don't make things up. I'm merely suggesting an alternative, and I have as much to back up that alternative as you do. All you're suggesting is that certain stereotypes exist, thus the media must have released the story on a whim to conform with that stereotype. Generally journalists don't just wake up and decide to be racist, so I find that theory a little weak .. but you're the expert on evidence, right? A far more plausible scenario is that this was a story someone came forward with, and whilst there was probably a lack of evidence they ran with it anyway because of existing stereotypes making them thing 'hey, it's probably true!". Which yes, is an example of racism and should be condemned by all, but it doesn't mean every single story related to Sterling is racist.

The media love sensationalism, a story about Sterling being related to gang culture was always going to be more interesting than 'footballer gets weird tattoo'. They made assumptions they didn't think would get questioned, but again is this a racial problem or more just an issue with the British media in general? I think if a white, working class lad had come out with a similar tattoo the media would have reacted in the exact same way. This is more of a class than a race problem I feel.

I've never said his personality was 'wrong', just suggested that certain personalities are better received in the media, which absolutely true. Most footballers have a history of stories related to their money, especially ones who move to Manchester City, once again I can post articles about John Stones and his new house if you like? He's one of the best English footballers around so is inevitably going to get a lot of media attention, and when you get guns tattooed on your leg or post pictures of diamond encrusted sinks on social media, you will get called out on it regardless of race.

The personality question is actually an interesting one, because he doesn't actually strike me as being particularly flamboyant and showy. I think the media settled on this narrative because of his move to City/the stories about him demanding tons of money at the time, and that narrative has stuck since. It's not fair or right, but then the media in this country isn't.
 
The difference between Raheem and Rashford is one was born in the UK, the other wasnt. I honestly think that has a lot to do with sterlings treatment. Hes not "proper" English and all that.
 
Can anyone speculate why Sterling gets more attention in media? There are many black players in the PL. Why Sterling?
 
I think 'hundreds of thousands' is probably a pretty accurate number - be that 200,000 or 900,000 I don't know.

But there are millions of Liverpool fans across the globe, disliking Sterling seems to be the accepted herd mentality.

On every dipper forum he's spoken of with spite and malice.

But overall, we'll agree to disagree - I don't view your argument as holding any substance, and I don't think you're open to intelligent conversation about the disgusting treatment of Raheem so we'll leave it there.

You're entitled to your views!

That's rich.

You're the guy who made the cowardly accusation that all Pool fans who dislike Sterling are racist although you couldn't even bring yourself to say it in plain English - "It's transparent".

You're the guy who accused another Pool fan of simplifying the issue in an extremely condescending post after he gave reasons for why Sterling was disliked by their fellow supporters.

You're the guy who then started picking numbers out of thin air to try and support your feelings.

Everyone who's engaged with you since your claim has accepted there will be racists in the Liverpool support but noted it's unfair to label the entire group this way and there are other reasons he's disliked by Liverpudlians.

There's only one person in these exchanges who's refusing to partake in a fair discussion and it's the guy who kicked it all off with a sweeping generalisation and refuses to accept any suggestions that don't comport with his preconceived notion.


Side note - apologies to those sensibly discussing the core topic for this tangent of a post.
 
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Plenty of people would claim that this is possible. There are plenty of historical examples where people truly believed a small ethnic minority were manipulating the rest, and often they reacted to this with violence. Historically these haven't even been niche views, just because a lot of people of a certain race believe a certain thing about the way they are being treated, does not automatically make it entirely true. I'm also not saying that black athletes across the country have no point, or that racism has been eradicated in the nation. I'm certain that there are certain articles written about Sterling which have been motivated by racist believes held by certain journalists. I'm just not as quick as others are to immediately brand all of the media attention he's received as being racially motivated, I genuinely believe that a vast majority of what has been aimed at him would have occurred regardless of race.

Nobody is calling anybody loons, I can understand why Sterling and others feel targeted. I'm not portraying them as foolish or insane, I'm merely putting across an opposing view. If somebody Jewish claimed something about anti semitism you'd look like a prick if you claimed they were wrong? How? Why? What if you had meticulously researched the topic for years and were an expert on anti semitism, would you still be incapable of commenting on it unless you happened to be Jewish?

How often do you reckon this scenario unfolds? :lol:
 
Sure, you can objectively analyse it. But when people who have experienced this are telling you maybe you're wrong, you aren't taking any of their arguments on board.

The way you're coming across is that you've got a pre-conceived notion that this isn't racist and nothing is going to convince you otherwise. You aren't interested in learning why minorities feel it's racist or why our experiences shape our views in this way.

Case in point - the false story about Sterling having multiple children with multiple women. You were told this is a negative stereotype about Jamaican men and the media deciding to print this story comes across racist. Your response? Nah, someone close to Sterling probably sold them the story.

Based on absolutely nothing you'd rather pull an excuse out of thin air than accept maybe it is a racially based negative stereotype.

In the same way that you and others have the pre conceived notion that this is racist, and nothing is going to convince you otherwise? I have a stance in the discussion, you're acting like I'm sat here point blank refusing to believe racism exists whatsoever, or that I'm not interested in hearing other perspectives. I haven't attempted to shut down other points of view at all and of course I'm interesting in learning from a different perspective, that's the point of a debate like this right? It seems like because I'm not sat here agreeing with everything that's being said, you're instantly assuming I have no interest in learning, which just isn't true.

My response was that in my experience this isn't how the media operate. They don't wake up and decide to publish stories purely to be racist. I don't know why people are pretending that the implausible explanation is that somebody came forward with a story and they decided to print it (this is mostly how that works). Where I think the racism angle has a point, is that there was likely a total lack of evidence brought forward but they went ahead anyway, possibly assuming the story was true because of the stereotypes that have been mentioned. And yes, that is a problem.
 
Anybody who tattoos a large assault rifle on their body is of questionable intelligence.

Damein Delaney has a tattoo of a clown shooting himself... no coverage.
Alberto Moreno has a monkey with a smoking gun... coverage was turned into a joke.
Jay Boothroyd has a full arsenal tattooed on his body, spelling out love.

So while Sterling has an assault rifle, its to commemorate his father who was shot dead. Millions of people all over the world have tattoo's of weapons, are you stating they are all of questionable intelligence?
 
The difference between Raheem and Rashford is one was born in the UK, the other wasnt. I honestly think that has a lot to do with sterlings treatment. Hes not "proper" English and all that.

I don't think most people even know that he wasn't born in the UK. I certainly didn't.

Can anyone speculate why Sterling gets more attention in media? There are many black players in the PL. Why Sterling?

He left Liverpool in difficult circumstances. Before that the press attention was minor. There is always one English player the media pin the nation's hopes on. He was the one for the next decade and he was also the one to bring Liverpool back from obscurity. Instead he upped and left for the new club on the block, and he did it for money. It pushed all the right buttons in the envious, class driven British mentality. Once the fire is lit the British press are relentless, as Gazza, Beckham and Rooney have all found out before him.
 
Plenty of people would claim that this is possible. There are plenty of historical examples where people truly believed a small ethnic minority were manipulating the rest, and often they reacted to this with violence. Historically these haven't even been niche views, just because a lot of people of a certain race believe a certain thing about the way they are being treated, does not automatically make it entirely true. I'm also not saying that black athletes across the country have no point, or that racism has been eradicated in the nation. I'm certain that there are certain articles written about Sterling which have been motivated by racist believes held by certain journalists. I'm just not as quick as others are to immediately brand all of the media attention he's received as being racially motivated, I genuinely believe that a vast majority of what has been aimed at him would have occurred regardless of race.

Nobody is calling anybody loons, I can understand why Sterling and others feel targeted. I'm not portraying them as foolish or insane, I'm merely putting across an opposing view. If somebody Jewish claimed something about anti semitism you'd look like a prick if you claimed they were wrong? How? Why? What if you had meticulously researched the topic for years and were an expert on anti semitism, would you still be incapable of commenting on it unless you happened to be Jewish?

Ok, do you have any concrete evidence that the media reported that story because they are racist? No? Then don't make things up. I'm merely suggesting an alternative, and I have as much to back up that alternative as you do. All you're suggesting is that certain stereotypes exist, thus the media must have released the story on a whim to conform with that stereotype. Generally journalists don't just wake up and decide to be racist, so I find that theory a little weak .. but you're the expert on evidence, right? A far more plausible scenario is that this was a story someone came forward with, and whilst there was probably a lack of evidence they ran with it anyway because of existing stereotypes making them thing 'hey, it's probably true!". Which yes, is an example of racism and should be condemned by all, but it doesn't mean every single story related to Sterling is racist.

The media love sensationalism, a story about Sterling being related to gang culture was always going to be more interesting than 'footballer gets weird tattoo'. They made assumptions they didn't think would get questioned, but again is this a racial problem or more just an issue with the British media in general? I think if a white, working class lad had come out with a similar tattoo the media would have reacted in the exact same way. This is more of a class than a race problem I feel.

I've never said his personality was 'wrong', just suggested that certain personalities are better received in the media, which absolutely true. Most footballers have a history of stories related to their money, especially ones who move to Manchester City, once again I can post articles about John Stones and his new house if you like? He's one of the best English footballers around so is inevitably going to get a lot of media attention, and when you get guns tattooed on your leg or post pictures of diamond encrusted sinks on social media, you will get called out on it regardless of race.

The personality question is actually an interesting one, because he doesn't actually strike me as being particularly flamboyant and showy. I think the media settled on this narrative because of his move to City/the stories about him demanding tons of money at the time, and that narrative has stuck since. It's not fair or right, but then the media in this country isn't.

You don't get it - if a media outlet allows a story to be ran by journalists who hold racist views, then they are supporting racism.
These aren't stories on a random person's blog with nobody to answer to - these are national & international news outlets. Every story needs to get approval from the editor, and if it's a front-page story (in the Sun & Daily Mail's case) then it needs multiple approvals, and multiple eyes will proof read, and approve it to print.
So you excusing the media is moot because the journalist doesn't work independently, and if there are 'lone racist journalists' working their views will still be known and approved - so yes, I'm not denying there are likely to be individual journalists who hold racist views - however the news papers need to be held accountable because they still choose to print those same stories.
If you don't oppose racism, you are supporting it. There's no fence to sit on when it comes to this topic. So yes, the media deserve to get stick just as much as the journalists, if not more considering they continue to employ said journalists.

Secondly - the fact that you resorted to making things up rather than agreeing that a fabricated story that plays on the stereotype of Jamaican men is racist, is proof that you aren't actually interested in 'intelligent debate' as you tried to claim, nor are you just trying to 'put across an alternative view' - because you can't answer what the motivations for using a racial stereotype are, if not racism.
I think you are just more interested in being the contrarian here who goes against the grain because you don't choose to believe the popular viewpoint.
In some cases, the popular viewpoint is the correct viewpoint, and not every issue needs a degree of debate.
The media claiming that Sterling had multiple kids with different mothers at the age of 18/19 was racist. The only information they had at the time was that he's a Jamaican born teenager who had 1 child. Nothing else, and with Google it's really easy to look these things up, even if 'somebody close to him' tried to sell them a story, instead they chose to play on the racial stereotype instead.

The British media get away with these things because there's always somebody willing to give them an inch and not be held accountable for what they report. The Daily Mail & The sun have dog-whistled for years about brown immigration. Now they've switched onto Megan Markle and stories of her being 'difficult' because she insists on doing chores like cleaning up after herself where as Kate 'respects' the Royal traditions, but Megan is also being 'difficult' because she wants to wear dresses that cost 'x amount' whilst Kate is either 'modest' for wearing cheap clothes or 'chic' when she decides to wear more expensive clothes.
The signs are all there, but sometimes - unless the N word is thrown out - people will just choose to not believe it's there because they simply don't understand - which was my first point.

The media settled on this narrative of him before he moved to City, that wasn't the landmark moment for which he was targeted by the press.