Charges against Chauvin being increased to 2nd degree murder.
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
- Start date
Ellison plans to elevate charge to 2nd degree murder. The others charged with aiding and abetting murder.
https://www.startribune.com/derek-c...e-floyd-minneapolis-police-charged/570984872/
https://www.startribune.com/derek-c...e-floyd-minneapolis-police-charged/570984872/
Ameen.
To elaborate, obviously the virus is situation is important and everyone should pay mind to do their bit by taking preventative measures. But this momentum should be taken as far as possible.
Last edited:
Where am I ignoring racism? Please expand. Also you're conflating UK incidents with US examples.
UK excess BAME covid19 infections is not about subpar health access; general public all have same access to our NHS, especially during covid19. It's about these communities having higher ratio in 'key worker' sectors, 3 generation homes living under same roof, higher propensity to live in urban high population density areas eg: high rise flat.
Every time any group had a mass gathering, all other people used whatever means they had to protest that, and it always ended up in national media and UK authorities tried to mitigate, within the limited powers they had. The issue was weak UK Government covid19 lockdown policy.
The point you are right about it its not about genetics or DNA. Which makes these protests even more dangerous from a covid19 pov. Protest attendance will have much higher BAME attendance. covid19 will infect the protestors who will then all take home to their community. Many BAME people will then die as a result. This logic sequence is not very difficult to create or compute, so Im really struggling to follow your line of thought.
Last edited:
Thats great news. Must be very confident that it can be proven in court.
Out of interest, can a jury upgrade charges to 1st degree?
Well said.
To add to that, the FBI has been aware for over a decade now that white supremacist groups have been sending in agents to infiltrate police forces... which, really is nothing new, as frequently during the Jim Crow Era, the police and the Klan were the same people.
https://www.justsecurity.org/70507/...ct-checking-national-security-advisor-obrien/
Looks like they're going to be charged with aiding and abetting.
Go on Keith. Should have been made head of DNC.
Not you specifically, should have made it clear. My post is also US specific (don't know enough about UK stuff)
Just not here for a paternalistic view of protestors, "don't they know they are at increased risk of infection"... Yeah they do. They like other people (who are out doing more selfish things) can take personal responsibility for their lives without me or others playing doctor/public health expert.
Is anyone seriously suggesting that protests and other political actions (voting) should be put on hold until things are back to normal? I think more and more people have determined that the virus is something we will have to live with, including an increased risk of mortality. This is one moment in history where I can forgive people for accepting that risk.
Yup
I'm commenting from a point of sympathy: I wrote ages ago in this thread that the fact that blacks are protesting despite the real threat of covid19 should tell everyone just how genuine this problem is. It's pitiful in its reality.
However, science tells us there will be covid19 repercussions because of this and the same persecuted community will bear the brunt of that. I'm not sure how to feel about that.
It is my understanding that only the prosecutor can elevate charges, and that is only before trial. It is certainly not going to happen in this case, as just going from 3rd to 2nd degree is a bold move that carries with it a higher burden of proof.
That was to denote disbelief that you even had to ask the question. If you're suggesting that black people are disproportionately jailed for other reasons than systemic racism and inequality, I'd like to hear them.
Do you think the Floyd family and collective society would be satisfied with 2nd degree?
Just saw a new Lord Jamar interview on VladTV, specifically done to talk about the current situation. Let's just say he has a veeeeeery unpopular opinion on it, at least when I compare with the views here.
Not sure if people would be interested to listen to that, but I saw mostly positive reactions in the comments for the video.
Not sure if people would be interested to listen to that, but I saw mostly positive reactions in the comments for the video.
It is the highest charge they can possibly hope for, and only one that would placate the masses. If he only gets nailed on a lesser charge of manslaughter protests could come back to some degree again, though we’re talking a long time from now on that front.
Seems like a few dickheads will see this as an opportunity to go smash up their town and get a couple cheap shots in against the Police, need to get a grip on this before it turns into 2011 again.
I’m genuinely curious what do the people protesting on the streets actually want done?
It’s all well fighting for action against racism, and quite rightly so, but how do they want it dealt with?
This to me is why it never progresses into anything but noise for a couple of weeks.
The fact COVID-19 has shut entire nations into their homes I would say it’s a much bigger issue than this. Maybe that’s just me.
It’s all well fighting for action against racism, and quite rightly so, but how do they want it dealt with?
This to me is why it never progresses into anything but noise for a couple of weeks.
The fact COVID-19 has shut entire nations into their homes I would say it’s a much bigger issue than this. Maybe that’s just me.
The video of that is pretty awful to be fair. It seems a small minority are looking for confrontation and are unable to protest peacefully.
Fair enough.
It's ok leaving it at that, and allowing this said persecuted community to decide how to navigate this complicated landscape.
COVID might feel like a cataclysmic event but it will contribute to the death of a comparatively small number of people and eventually die out in the next year or two. It’s nasty, but it’s really just another reasonable way to die, whether people like the brutality of that or not.
Systemic racism has existed for centuries and has contributed to the deaths of an impossible number of people. It will continue to kill, impede and poison long after COVID, and long after the next new virus that hits humanity down the line. That’s why people are protesting it. It’s so much bigger than COVID.
You forgot to mention he wasn't just pointing he was resisting arrest and threatened to "put the officers to sleep".
A subsequent inquiry cleared the officers of any wrong doing.
He'd be acquitted on a first degree murder charge. There's no way a jury would convict him of premeditated murder.
Cheers, I have to say this terrible event has led me to read up quite a bit on the topic but am by no means any sort of expert.
I've twice addressed @hmchan 's point of 'how we know that racism is involved' and neither time has he chosen to acknowledge these points but has continually repeated his question.
Its only when I read (abbreviated) post below that it really hit me. I'd encourage everyone to spend time reading the full post here).
Policing in USA originated in white slave owners desire to brutally suppress the human rights of black people. It is literally at the heart of the 'American Police' idea and went unchallenged for 330 years until the 1960s. So it's not surprising that this is still a strong theme today and will attract many who sympathise with these beliefs.
The only way for USA to change this is to engage in a systemic root and branch change program. I'm not sure how thats possible under a Trump Government, nor do I believe that Biden has the energy or passion to make it happen either. I think Saunders could have started it, but seems that ship has sailed.
https://www.theroot.com/a-timeline-of-events-that-led-to-the-2020-fed-up-rising-1843780800
- 1636: Boston creates the “Night Watch” which would become the first police force in America.
- 1704: South Carolina creates the first modern-day, public police force. Called “slave patrols,” these publicly-funded organizations served three functions: 1) to chase down, apprehend, and return runaway slaves to their owners; (2) to provide a form of organized terror to deter slave revolts; and, (3) to maintain a form of discipline for slave-workers who violated rules
- March 5, 1770: America’s first police brutality protest turns into a riot when British troops charged with policing colonists open fire on Boston residents. Crispus Attucks, a black man, is killed during what we now call the “Boston Massacre."
- December, 1791: Congress ratifies the Second Amendment to the Constitution, giving Americans the right to bear arms. James Madison created the amendment to allay fears of armed black uprisings.
- Apr. 12, 1861: 11 state governments unite to form a white supremacist nation, deciding they’d rather stop being Americans than stop enslaving humans. The Civil War is still the bloodiest war in American history.
- Dec. 24, 1865: A group composed of former Confederate soldiers, slave patrollers and law enforcement officers form the “Circle of Friends,” also known as the Ku Klux Klan July 9, 1868 - 1877: Ku Klux Klan and whites organize a national terror campaign that massacres tens of thousands of black people across the country.
- Feb. 18, 1965: Alabama State Troopers shoot Jimmie Lee Jackson, a nonviolent protester.
- March 7, 1965: Alabama State Troopers and the Ku Klux Klan attack 300 nonviolent protesters on the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Ala.
- March 3, 1991: A video camera captures four Los Angeles Police Department officers beating Rodney King in one of the first viral police brutality videos.
Yeah, it would, wouldn't it?
I don't know. But it's worth mentioning and at least trying to get your facts right instead of manipulating the video.
Theres plenty of things going on right now to get into rather than posting a video that's two years old of a black man being tasered in the UK whilst resisting arrest.
Will she have her bible .
No mate. The charges are set by the prosecution.
The case for the Prosecution rests m'lud.
Er this is bigger than COVID? The thing that’s literally shut down world economies and has made people change their core ways of living to try counter act the effects of? The thing that’s prevented some cancer patients from getting their treatment? This is bigger than that? I mean really?
He should also go after the coroner that did the 1st autopsy and get that prick fired.
That bold part
. What about if they died protesting over something that happened in another country whilst their national health service is still fighting to stop people dying from the virus? Sorry but your logic, in the current circumstances, is just wrong.And as for systematic racism? Anyone would think ethnic minorities don’t have the same human rights as everyone one. To simply blame skin colour for these issues is too simplistic. Just my opinion. I’m sure I’ll get slaughtered as a racist for saying it.
http://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov...s/27-CR-20-12646/AmendedComplaint06032020.pdf
State of Minnesota County of Hennepin State of Minnesota, Plaintiff vs. DEREK MICHAEL CHAUVIN
COMPLAINT
The Complainant submits this complaint to the Court and states that there is probable cause to believe Defendant committed the following offense(s):
COUNT I
Charge: Second Degree Murder - Unintentional - While Committing A Felony
Minnesota Statute: 609.19.2(1)
Maximum Sentence: Imprisonment of not more than 40 years. Offense Level: Felony
Offense Date (on or about): 05/25/2020
Control #(ICR#): 20200338
Charge Description: That on or about May 25, 2020, in Hennepin County, Minnesota, Derek Michael Chauvin, caused the death of a human being, George Floyd, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting, namely assault in the third degree.
COUNT II
Charge: Third Degree Murder - Perpetrating Eminently Dangerous Act and Evincing Depraved Mind
Minnesota Statute: 609.195(a)
Maximum Sentence: Imprisonment of not more than 25 years.
Offense Level: Felony
Offense Date (on or about): 05/25/2020 Control #(ICR#): 20200338
Charge Description: That on or about May 25, 2020, in Hennepin County, Derek Michael Chauvin caused the death of another, George Floyd, by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life.
COUNT III
Charge: Second Degree Manslaughter - Culpable Negligence Creating Unreasonable Risk
Minnesota Statute: 609.205(1)
Maximum Sentence: Imprisonment of not more than 10 years, or payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both.
Offense Level: Felony
Offense Date (on or about): 05/25/2020
Control #(ICR#): 20200338
Charge Description: That on or about May 25, 2020, in Hennepin County, Minnesota, Derek Michael Chauvin caused the death of another, George Floyd, by his culpable negligence, creating an unreasonable risk and consciously took the chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another, George Floyd.
STATEMENT OF PROBABLE CAUSE
On May 25, 2020, someone called 911 and reported that a man bought merchandise from Cup Foods at 3759 Chicago Avenue in Minneapolis, Hennepin County, Minnesota with a counterfeit $20 bill. At 8:08 p.m.,Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) Officers Thomas Lane and J.A.Kueng arrived with their body worn cameras (BWCs) activated and running. The officers learned from store personnel that the man who passed the counterfeit $20 was parked in a car around the corner from the store on 38th Street.
BWC video obtained by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension shows that the officers approached the car,Lane on the driver's side and Kueng on the passenger side. Three people were in the car; George Floyd was in the driver's seat, a known adult male was in the passenger seat and a known adult female was sitting in the backseat. As Officer Lane began speaking with Mr. Floyd, he pulled his gun out and pointed it at Mr. Floyd's open window and directed Mr. Floyd to show his hands. When Mr. Floyd put his hands on the steering wheel,Lane put his gun back in its holster.
While Officer Kueng was speaking with the front seat passenger, Officer Lane ordered Mr. Floyd out of the car, put his hands on Mr. Floyd, and pulled him out of the car. Officer Lane handcuffed Mr. Floyd.
Once handcuffed , Mr. Floyd walked with Officer Lane to the sidewalk and sat on the ground at Officer Lane's direction. When Mr. Floyd sat down he said “thank you man” and was calm. In a conversation that lasted just under two minutes,Officer Lang asked Mr. Floyd for his name and identification. Officer Lane asked Mr. Floyd if he was "on anything" and noted there was foam at the edges of his mouth. Officer Lane explained that he was arresting Mr. Lloyd for passing counterfeit currency.
At 8:14 p.m., Officers Kueng and Lanestood Mr. Floyd up and attempted to walk Mr. Floyd to their squad car. As the officers tried to put Mr. Floyd in their squad car, Mr. Floyd stiffened up and fell to the ground. Mr. Floyd told the officers that he was not resisting but he did not want to get in the back seat and was claustrophobic.
MPD Officers Derek Chauvin (the defendant) and Tou Thao then arrived in a separate squad car.
The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of their squad car by pushing him from the driver's side. As the officers were trying to force Mr. Floyd in the backseat, Mr. Floyd repeatedly said that he could not breathe. Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily sit in the backseat and the officers physically struggled to try to get him in the backseat.
The defendant went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side and Lane and Kueng assisted.
The defendant pulled Mr. Floyd out of the passenger side of the squad car at 8:19:38 p.m. and Mr. Floyd went to the ground face down and still handcuffed.Kueng held Mr. Floyd's back and Lane held his legs.The defendant placed his left knee in the area of Mr. Floyd's head and neck. Mr. Floyd said, "I can't breathe" multiple times and repeatedly said,"Mama" and "please," as well. At one point, Mr. Floyd said “I’m about to die.” The defendant and the other two officers stayed in their positions.
One of the officers said,"You are talking fine" to Mr.Floyd as he continued to move back and forth. Lane asked, "should we roll him on his side?" and the defendant said, "No, staying put where we got him." Officer Lane said," I am worried about excited delirium or whatever." The defendant said, "That's why we have him on his stomach." The defendant and Kueng held Mr. Floyd’s right hand up. None of the three officers moved from their positions.
While Mr. Floyd showed slight movements, his movements and sounds decreased until at 8:24:24, Mr. Floyd stopped moving. At 8:25:31 the video appears to show Mr. Floyd ceasing to breathe or speak. Lane said, "want to roll him on his side." Kueng checked Mr. Floyd's right wrist for a pulse and said, "I couldn't find one." None of the officers moved from their positions.
At 8:27:24, the defendant removed his knee from Mr. Floyd's neck. An ambulance and emergency medical personnel arrived, the officers placed Mr. Floyd on a gurney, and the ambulance left the scene. Mr. Floyd was pronounced dead at Hennepin County Medical Center.
The Hennepin County Medical Examiner(ME) conducted Mr.Floyd's autopsy on May26,2020. While the ME did not observe physical findings supportive of mechanical asphyxia, the ME opines that Mr. Floyd died from cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officers. The autopsy revealed that Mr. Floyd had arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease, and toxicology testing revealed the presence of fentanyl and evidence of recent methamphetamine use. The ME opined that the effects of the officers’ restraint of Mr. Floyd, his underlying health conditions, and the presence of the drugs contributed to his death. The ME listed the cause of death as “[c]ardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression,” and concluded the manner of death was homicide.
The defendant and Officers Lange and Kueng subdued Mr. Floyd prone to the ground in this manner for nearly 9 minutes. During this time, Mr. Floyd repeatedly stated he could not breathe and his physical condition continued to deteriorate such that force was no longer necessary to control him. The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total. Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive.Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone position is inherently dangerous. Officer Chauvin’s restraint of Mr. Floyd in this manner for a prolonged period was a substantial causal factor in Mr. Floyd losing consciousness, constituting substantial bodily harm, and Mr. Floyd’s death as well.
Defendant is in custody.
State of Minnesota County of Hennepin State of Minnesota, Plaintiff vs. DEREK MICHAEL CHAUVIN
COMPLAINT
The Complainant submits this complaint to the Court and states that there is probable cause to believe Defendant committed the following offense(s):
COUNT I
Charge: Second Degree Murder - Unintentional - While Committing A Felony
Minnesota Statute: 609.19.2(1)
Maximum Sentence: Imprisonment of not more than 40 years. Offense Level: Felony
Offense Date (on or about): 05/25/2020
Control #(ICR#): 20200338
Charge Description: That on or about May 25, 2020, in Hennepin County, Minnesota, Derek Michael Chauvin, caused the death of a human being, George Floyd, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting, namely assault in the third degree.
COUNT II
Charge: Third Degree Murder - Perpetrating Eminently Dangerous Act and Evincing Depraved Mind
Minnesota Statute: 609.195(a)
Maximum Sentence: Imprisonment of not more than 25 years.
Offense Level: Felony
Offense Date (on or about): 05/25/2020 Control #(ICR#): 20200338
Charge Description: That on or about May 25, 2020, in Hennepin County, Derek Michael Chauvin caused the death of another, George Floyd, by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life.
COUNT III
Charge: Second Degree Manslaughter - Culpable Negligence Creating Unreasonable Risk
Minnesota Statute: 609.205(1)
Maximum Sentence: Imprisonment of not more than 10 years, or payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both.
Offense Level: Felony
Offense Date (on or about): 05/25/2020
Control #(ICR#): 20200338
Charge Description: That on or about May 25, 2020, in Hennepin County, Minnesota, Derek Michael Chauvin caused the death of another, George Floyd, by his culpable negligence, creating an unreasonable risk and consciously took the chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another, George Floyd.
STATEMENT OF PROBABLE CAUSE
On May 25, 2020, someone called 911 and reported that a man bought merchandise from Cup Foods at 3759 Chicago Avenue in Minneapolis, Hennepin County, Minnesota with a counterfeit $20 bill. At 8:08 p.m.,Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) Officers Thomas Lane and J.A.Kueng arrived with their body worn cameras (BWCs) activated and running. The officers learned from store personnel that the man who passed the counterfeit $20 was parked in a car around the corner from the store on 38th Street.
BWC video obtained by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension shows that the officers approached the car,Lane on the driver's side and Kueng on the passenger side. Three people were in the car; George Floyd was in the driver's seat, a known adult male was in the passenger seat and a known adult female was sitting in the backseat. As Officer Lane began speaking with Mr. Floyd, he pulled his gun out and pointed it at Mr. Floyd's open window and directed Mr. Floyd to show his hands. When Mr. Floyd put his hands on the steering wheel,Lane put his gun back in its holster.
While Officer Kueng was speaking with the front seat passenger, Officer Lane ordered Mr. Floyd out of the car, put his hands on Mr. Floyd, and pulled him out of the car. Officer Lane handcuffed Mr. Floyd.
Once handcuffed , Mr. Floyd walked with Officer Lane to the sidewalk and sat on the ground at Officer Lane's direction. When Mr. Floyd sat down he said “thank you man” and was calm. In a conversation that lasted just under two minutes,Officer Lang asked Mr. Floyd for his name and identification. Officer Lane asked Mr. Floyd if he was "on anything" and noted there was foam at the edges of his mouth. Officer Lane explained that he was arresting Mr. Lloyd for passing counterfeit currency.
At 8:14 p.m., Officers Kueng and Lanestood Mr. Floyd up and attempted to walk Mr. Floyd to their squad car. As the officers tried to put Mr. Floyd in their squad car, Mr. Floyd stiffened up and fell to the ground. Mr. Floyd told the officers that he was not resisting but he did not want to get in the back seat and was claustrophobic.
MPD Officers Derek Chauvin (the defendant) and Tou Thao then arrived in a separate squad car.
The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of their squad car by pushing him from the driver's side. As the officers were trying to force Mr. Floyd in the backseat, Mr. Floyd repeatedly said that he could not breathe. Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily sit in the backseat and the officers physically struggled to try to get him in the backseat.
The defendant went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side and Lane and Kueng assisted.
The defendant pulled Mr. Floyd out of the passenger side of the squad car at 8:19:38 p.m. and Mr. Floyd went to the ground face down and still handcuffed.Kueng held Mr. Floyd's back and Lane held his legs.The defendant placed his left knee in the area of Mr. Floyd's head and neck. Mr. Floyd said, "I can't breathe" multiple times and repeatedly said,"Mama" and "please," as well. At one point, Mr. Floyd said “I’m about to die.” The defendant and the other two officers stayed in their positions.
One of the officers said,"You are talking fine" to Mr.Floyd as he continued to move back and forth. Lane asked, "should we roll him on his side?" and the defendant said, "No, staying put where we got him." Officer Lane said," I am worried about excited delirium or whatever." The defendant said, "That's why we have him on his stomach." The defendant and Kueng held Mr. Floyd’s right hand up. None of the three officers moved from their positions.
While Mr. Floyd showed slight movements, his movements and sounds decreased until at 8:24:24, Mr. Floyd stopped moving. At 8:25:31 the video appears to show Mr. Floyd ceasing to breathe or speak. Lane said, "want to roll him on his side." Kueng checked Mr. Floyd's right wrist for a pulse and said, "I couldn't find one." None of the officers moved from their positions.
At 8:27:24, the defendant removed his knee from Mr. Floyd's neck. An ambulance and emergency medical personnel arrived, the officers placed Mr. Floyd on a gurney, and the ambulance left the scene. Mr. Floyd was pronounced dead at Hennepin County Medical Center.
The Hennepin County Medical Examiner(ME) conducted Mr.Floyd's autopsy on May26,2020. While the ME did not observe physical findings supportive of mechanical asphyxia, the ME opines that Mr. Floyd died from cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officers. The autopsy revealed that Mr. Floyd had arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease, and toxicology testing revealed the presence of fentanyl and evidence of recent methamphetamine use. The ME opined that the effects of the officers’ restraint of Mr. Floyd, his underlying health conditions, and the presence of the drugs contributed to his death. The ME listed the cause of death as “[c]ardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression,” and concluded the manner of death was homicide.
The defendant and Officers Lange and Kueng subdued Mr. Floyd prone to the ground in this manner for nearly 9 minutes. During this time, Mr. Floyd repeatedly stated he could not breathe and his physical condition continued to deteriorate such that force was no longer necessary to control him. The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total. Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive.Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone position is inherently dangerous. Officer Chauvin’s restraint of Mr. Floyd in this manner for a prolonged period was a substantial causal factor in Mr. Floyd losing consciousness, constituting substantial bodily harm, and Mr. Floyd’s death as well.
Defendant is in custody.
Last edited: