Pro Evolution Soccer 2011

If its anything like the last one the best teams will be in descending order.

Real Madrid (by a long shot, Kaka and Benzema are far to good)
Barcelona
Inter Milan
Chelsea
Arsenal
Ac Milan
Manchester United
 
UnitedRoadRed said:
fanboi.:nono:

Happy to get both, usually end up finding PES more rewarding to play.
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fanboi my fecking hole, i always bought PES until they fecked it up when going to next gen, why should i spend money on something i regard as nowhere near the standard it should be when compared to the competition. im not going to jump back in two feet first off the back of a review
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Haven't played that, to be fair.

Has there been a major change to the gameplay since FIFA 10? Because it was horrible to play.
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For me yes. Players feel like they have a lot more freedom in their movement, balls go where you want defenders and attackers are smarter, and while there is some ping pong passing, the completely manual passing and shooting is supremely rewarding. The only thing it lacks is content, but it is a world cup game. It's also a bit slower.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Haven't played that, to be fair.

Has there been a major change to the gameplay since FIFA 10? Because it was horrible to play.
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To be honest, no. It's a fine tuning, which is always the case with football games. And people who do like Fifa 10 will think it's brilliant. People who don't won't find it any good.

Just out of curiosity, what do you not like about Fifa 10, compared to say the old PES'?

My issue with football games in general is their difficulty.
 
marchi-91 said:
For me yes. Players feel like they have a lot more freedom in their movement, balls go where you want defenders and attackers are smarter, and while there is some ping pong passing, the completely manual passing and shooting is supremely rewarding. The only thing it lacks is content, but it is a world cup game. It's also a bit slower.
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Felt it was better in terms of tweaks. Doubt Pogue would like it if he didn't like Fifa 10.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
To be honest, no. It's a fine tuning, which is always the case with football games. And people who do like Fifa 10 will think it's brilliant. People who don't won't find it any good.

Just out of curiosity, what do you not like about Fifa 10, compared to say the old PES'?

My issue with football games in general is their difficulty.
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The whole feel of it was all wrong. Feels heavy and slow. Crosses were weird and floaty, short passing felt sluggish and it was ridiculously easy to chip the keeper (which is an odd gripe but really annoying when you're playing another person). Plus there was the same old FIFA flaw of feeling like there was a limited array of goals you could score (unlike Pro Evo, where you're constantly surprised by scoring a new sort of goal). It was just not much fun to play. A bit boring really.

A few years ago, everyone took the piss out of FIFA for being too arcadey, while Pro Evo was supposed to be more of a simulation but FIFA seems to have gone to the opposite extreme. It looks great but it wasn't any fun to play. IMHO.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The whole feel of it was all wrong. Feels heavy and slow. Crosses were weird and floaty, short passing felt sluggish and it was ridiculously easy to chip the keeper (which is an odd gripe but really annoying when you're playing another person). Plus there was the same old FIFA flaw of feeling like there was a limited array of goals you could score (unlike Pro Evo, where you're constantly surprised by scoring a new sort of goal). It was just not much fun to play. A bit boring really.

A few years ago, everyone took the piss out of FIFA for being too arcadey, while Pro Evo was supposed to be more of a simulation but FIFA seems to have gone to the opposite extreme. It looks great but it wasn't any fun to play. IMHO.
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Feel the opposite actually. Apart from the variety of goals bit. That's a good point. I remember in the old winning eleven series ball striking was a lot more realistic. I remember if the ball was coming to you at the right pace and your player had the right space to work with, you could strike a ball first time just right and it would fly in as per the circumstances even from 30 yards out. Fifa seems to be a little generic in this sense. That feel of striking a ball doesn't seem as 'real'. It feels like you have to do what your supposed to do and it will go in.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Feel the opposite actually. Apart from the variety of goals bit. That's a good point. I remember in the old winning eleven series ball striking was a lot more realistic. I remember if the ball was coming to you at the right pace and your player had the right space to work with, you could strike a ball first time just right and it would fly in as per the circumstances even from 30 yards out. Fifa seems to be a little generic in this sense. That feel of striking a ball doesn't seem as 'real'. It feels like you have to do what your supposed to do and it will go in.
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Exactly. Take away that element of the unknown and a whole lot of fun goes out of the game. It was the possibility of scoring a freakish screamer that used to keep me coming back to the game, again and again.
 
Downloaded this and will give it a go tonight, I hope it is going back to how it used to be, I won't be buying Fifa11 unless they fix the 100% guaranteed goal chipping the keeper which ruins online. If PES11 is back to how it used to be I'll definitely be getting both. PES screamers were the best... Roberto Carlos from just past the half way line. :drool:
 
Biggest issue with fifa is that 65% of the goals are chips, 35% are placed shots diagonally towards the far post.
 
afrocentricity said:
Who cares about the commentary, It's always muted or turned down when I play.... either playing music a movie, or the missus is watching something else on the other TV...

@ Plan M, what system you on? Think a 2vs2 match is in order at some stage...
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Xbox 360 mate. Me and my mate usually start a 2v2 lobby a few times a week but you always get stupid feckwits that pile in, making it 3 v 4 etc.

Why can't they understand the concept of "2 v 2"?!

Also Mockney is right Pogue, stop living in the past mate. Pro Evo/WE11 games used to be the bees knees but the last few attempts have been a bit poo.

Play the latest FIFA World Cup game, it plays an immense game of footy - I am still playing it even though the World Cup is over.
 
Jacob said:
Biggest issue with fifa is that 65% of the goals are chips, 35% are placed shots diagonally towards the far post.
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Precisely. Thats why i agree with someone in here who said fundamentally Fifa is a flawed game. Its very mechanical, from the passing, shooting, making space and creating chances. When you score, it just seems like you've done it all before and you just get the overall feeling that instead of scoring a goal, you've exploited the games weaknesses instead. Mind you, Fifa has always had that problem. I remember in Fifa 95 you would run up the wing get to the corner edge of the box and unleash a diagonal shot across the goal and it would be certain goal. Well Todays Fifa just feels like that, all be it far more elaborate.

Very rarely do i get that feeling in Pes.
 
But the ball feels like a heavy marbel is PES these days...and the players run like they're trains on rails.
 
Plan M said:
But the ball feels like a heavy marbel is PES these days...and the players run like they're trains on rails.
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I think you should try pro evo on the PC mate. It such a different experience to the game on a console i feel, for the better because very rarely do i think the animations look odd, maybe the fact i play wide mode disguises that fact too. Also did you know that if you play the game on the console through the RGB instead of HDMI, the gameplay is about 1.5x times as fast as apposed to HDMI ? strange but true
 
Plan M said:
But the ball feels like a heavy marbel is PES these days...and the players run like they're trains on rails.
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have to say, i didn't feel like that playing the new demo - felt I had a lot of freedom in terms of player movement (including running past the ball cause I expected my player to align his run like they always used too!)

Have to say, from playing the demo of PES, i reckon i'll be happy just buying it this year.

I have bought both it and FIFA over the last few years (08,09,10) but have generally gone back to PES cause I found it more fun and free, less frustratingly 'real'. My impression so far is that this is the best PES i've played since 6 on the PS2 (6 on the 360 sucked) and that it is one I'll be happy to play for months.

I actually think the best of the game will be seen when playing with crappy teams (have only played with Barcelona so far) as the manual passing will become far more apparent and the skill needed to play the game properly will be greater - BaL mode should really improve from this too.

I'll download the FIFA demo next week to give it a look, but I can't see myself buying both titles this year, and it looks like I will be happy with PES.

Looking forward to downloading the 360 PES demo next week too, to see how it plays on that.
 
For those who have the chance to play the demos, I have a faw questions :
*In in-game, are there different trajectories for shots than the straight line bullet style ?
I have a couple of questions.
*Are there actually penalties in PES2011 ?
*Are there some FKs given for some reckless challenges ?
*How is refereeing in general ?

Jacob said:
Haven't played that game, how have they corrected this? Is it much harder to lob the keeper?
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It's much harder yes.When you do score one, it doesn't feel cheap (:D)

Mitch Conor said:
have to say, i didn't feel like that playing the new demo - felt I had a lot of freedom in terms of player movement (including running past the ball cause I expected my player to align his run like they always used too!)
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This pleases me immensely as I've always hated how players seem on trails.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Haven't played that, to be fair.

Has there been a major change to the gameplay since FIFA 10? Because it was horrible to play.
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I didn' think there was much difference, but the World Cup game was somehow miles better. The pace of the game was more realistic, it felt and looked less clumsy, and they'd ironed out a lot of the idiotic flaws (such as the keeper chipping thing), which, for me at least, had pretty much ruined everything Fifa had going for it.

It just became dull playing the World Cup over and over again. If it'd had club teams and the like on it, it'd have been up there with the old Pro Evos, for me. Nothing else has really come close since next gen. Even Pro Evo 6 was a load of cack on 360.
 
kouroux said:
For those who have the chance to play the demos, I have a faw questions :
*In in-game, are there different trajectories for shots than the straight line bullet style ?
I have a couple of questions.
*Are there actually penalties in PES2011 ?
*Are there some FKs given for some reckless challenges ?
*How is refereeing in general ?
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1. Yes - noticed a few different shot types.
2. Haven't given one away myself (or got one) but none should have been given.
3. Yes.
4. Not to my taste. too many free's imo. None that weren't actual frees but loads where i'm just thinking 'play the fook on, seriously'. Did make some crunching slide tackles taking man and ball, and no whistle, which was nice.
 
Jacob said:
Biggest issue with fifa is that 65% of the goals are chips, 35% are placed shots diagonally towards the far post.
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Not so in world cup. I have had zero chipped goals (thought about lying and making it 3 or 4, as to sound more 'realistic' and avoid ppl disbelieving me, but nah) scored against me after 450 online matches or so. The combination of it being harder to execute and, on the other side, the opponent not having to deal with a keeper who rushes out 500 metres from his goal line whenever there is someone vaguely running at him 50 yards away, has fixed that.

I haven't scored one either like I could do at will in the other fifa's, but I haven't tried many since I couldn't be bothered to 'master' it.
 
Mitch Conor said:
oI also don't agree with Mockney regarding dribbling - I was not able to just glide past people, even with Messi, but I was able to create angles to turn them on occassion - without using any tricks (cause I haven't figured them out yet). Again, it has only been two games so I didn't expect to be skinning everyone.
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It's not just the "not being able to skin anyone" (which, whatever Pogue says, is a component of real football and should be in a football game) it's far more the sluggishness of the running. Again the players look and feel like they're on tracks and the turning circle is still cumbersum and doesn't feel natural or 360 at all...It's far less dribbling around people and far more just the sluggishness at which anyone (no matter how fast the player) carries the ball...it doesn't feel like football to me. The ball also still feels like it's stuck to the players foot, something FIFA got rid of last year and which worked brilliantly...Things don't move forward when someone runs with it, it actually slows it down hugely..which isn't what happens in football

Thing about this game is, for those who don't agree (or accept) that FIFA has been the better game the past 3 years, this game is going to please them no end. It's far freer, far more lucid, and easily the best effort they've come up with..However for the majority of us who've found FIFA to have over taken PES in gameplay (especially with the WC game) I'm not 100% how many converts it'll win back....There's still something unsatisfying for me. MikeUpNorth come round yesterday and hated it instantly for example..

As Mitch says, he's a PES man...

but have generally gone back to PES cause I found it more fun and free, less frustratingly 'real'
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And I think he will be very happy with just this...But I'm not so sure about the rest of us. Plus this kind of statement sums up the "PES is still the better game" contradictions for me....For years PES was lauded for being more "real"...for more like actual football, and the one thing it definitely still retains over FIFA is the feeling you're scoring unique goals and not at all "working the system" which is undoubtably still an issue with FIFA...However where this falls down is that it still doesn't really seem like you're scoring a unique goal in a football game. It feels like you're scoring a unique, and often shit goal in a computer game...So for PES fans to turn round and critique FIFA for being too real (or like Pogue has done, congratulate them on not having real things like fast player movement or dribbling) seems really wierd to me. I played the WC game after Mike begged me to turn PES off, and the feeling of running an breaking forward with real movement was palpable..PES still feels cumbersome and (in weird way) 2 dimensional...in that everything feels like it's happening in a straight line...There seem to be a lot of contradictions in the arguments "FIFA may be more real, but's it's less fun" "Well FIFA may be more arcadey, but it's less real" They're arguments that contradict each other and seem to be being made based on what PES is and isn't doing right rather than what anyone actually wants from a football game..

Noodle hit the nail on the head earlier (in fact I've agreed with noods throughout this thread) the player AI is terrible in PES, which is partly why it doesn't feel like football. When you're in the final 3rd, the players all just stand around waiting for something to happen and it feels like you're pinging it around a hall of statues...you're often forced to pass back, or just to players standing still rather than into runs or things like that, and it just doesn't feel "free and fluid" like real football does...which is something FIFA have gotten down in the last 2 or 3 of their games.

I remember people coming out with the hilarious "well you obviously aren't playing it well enough" or "clearly you aren't good at it yet" excuses when people lambasted the last PES..which is obviously also something you can lay at the door of people who grudgingly refuse to like FIFA if that's an excuse you want to make about it's accessability......

I think this still has more flaws than FIFA, but this version has far far less, and is still better at the things FIFA fails at (volleying, first time shooting and uniqueness) ...But I don't think this'll alter a lot of perceptions..What I thinkk it will do though is win back people like Pogue who think the last few versions have been shit. Pogue and the "purely PES" lot will like this game...and I think noods will as well actually. I like this game...I just don't think it's quite good enough to re-overtake FIFA quite yet...but it's a promising move in the right direction.

Those who like PES will rave that this is the best again...But I don't think it'll convert a lot of the FIFA crowd providing FIFA stays close to the WC game...

It seems like I'm focusing far more on what it's gotten wrong than what's right, but I do like this game..I'll probably get both this year.
 
Mitch Conor said:
1. Yes - noticed a few different shot types.
2. Haven't given one away myself (or got one) but none should have been given.
3. Yes.
4. Not to my taste. too many free's imo. None that weren't actual frees but loads where i'm just thinking 'play the fook on, seriously'. Did make some crunching slide tackles taking man and ball, and no whistle, which was nice.
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Thanks for the answers Mitch
 
Mockney said:
It's not just the "not being able to skin anyone" (which, whatever Pogue says, is a component of real football and should be in a football game) it's far more the sluggishness of the running. Again the players look and feel like they're on tracks and the turning circle is still cumbersum and doesn't feel natural or 360 at all...It's far less dribbling around people and far more just the sluggishness at which anyone (no matter how fast the player) carries the ball...it doesn't feel like football to me. The ball also still feels like it's stuck to the players foot, something FIFA got rid of last year and which worked brilliantly...Things don't move forward when someone runs with it, it actually slows it down hugely..which isn't what happens in football

Thing about this game is, for those who don't agree (or accept) that FIFA has been the better game the past 3 years, this game is going to please them no end. It's far freer, far more lucid, and easily the best effort they've come up with..However for the majority of us who've found FIFA to have over taken PES in gameplay (especially with the WC game) I'm not 100% how many converts it'll win back....There's still something unsatisfying for me. MikeUpNorth come round yesterday and hated it instantly for example..

As Mitch says, he's a PES man...



And I think he will be very happy with just this...But I'm not so sure about the rest of us. Plus this kind of statement sums up the "PES is still the better game" contradictions for me....For years PES was lauded for being more "real"...for more like actual football, and the one thing it definitely still retains over FIFA is the feeling you're scoring unique goals and not at all "working the system" which is undoubtably still an issue with FIFA...However where this falls down is that it still doesn't really seem like you're scoring a unique goal in a football game. It feels like you're scoring a unique, and often shit goal in a computer game...So for PES fans to turn round and critique FIFA for being too real (or like Pogue has done, congratulate them on not having real things like fast player movement or dribbling) seems really wierd to me. I played the WC game after Mike begged me to turn PES off, and the feeling of running an breaking forward with real movement was palpable..PES still feels cumbersome and (in weird way) 2 dimensional...in that everything feels like it's happening in a straight line...There seem to be a lot of contradictions in the arguments "FIFA may be more real, but's it's less fun" "Well FIFA may be more arcadey, but it's less real" They're arguments that contradict each other and seem to be being made based on what PES is and isn't doing right rather than what anyone actually wants from a football game..

Noodle hit the nail on the head earlier (in fact I've agreed with noods throughout this thread) the player AI is terrible in PES, which is partly why it doesn't feel like football. When you're in the final 3rd, the players all just stand around waiting for something to happen and it feels like you're pinging it around a hall of statues...you're often forced to pass back, or just to players standing still rather than into runs or things like that, and it just doesn't feel "free and fluid" like real football does...which is something FIFA have gotten down in the last 2 or 3 of their games.

I remember people coming out with the hilarious "well you obviously aren't playing it well enough" or "clearly you aren't good at it yet" excuses when people lambasted the last PES..which is obviously also something you can lay at the door of people who grudgingly refuse to like FIFA if that's an excuse you want to make about it's accessability......

I think this still has more flaws than FIFA, but this version has far far less, and is still better at the things FIFA fails at (volleying, first time shooting and uniqueness) ...But I don't think this'll alter a lot of perceptions..What I thinkk it will do though is win back people like Pogue who think the last few versions have been shit. Pogue and the "purely PES" lot will like this game...and I think noods will as well actually. I like this game...I just don't think it's quite good enough to re-overtake FIFA quite yet...but it's a promising move in the right direction.

Those who like PES will rave that this is the best again...But I don't think it'll convert a lot of the FIFA crowd providing FIFA stays close to the WC game...

It seems like I'm focusing far more on what it's gotten wrong than what's right, but I do like this game..I'll probably get both this year.
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To be honest, I don't have a real reply to this. Just wanted to quote it to point out that I have read it and it is an excellent post. I agree with pretty much all of it, especially the last paragraph - people won't come flooding back from Fifa, some will, but I don't think PES will lose any more followers and I think this PES title is a massive step in the right direction in comparison to the last few years.
 
Mitch Conor said:
To be honest, I don't have a real reply to this. Just wanted to quote it to point out that I have read it and it is an excellent post. I agree with pretty much all of it, especially the last paragraph - people won't come flooding back from Fifa, some will, but I don't think PES will lose any more followers and I think this PES title is a massive step in the right direction in comparison to the last few years.
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Yeah...I just re-read it an realised how negative it was...I think this will please PES fans. And if they can keep up the momentum, they could start to challenge FIFA again in a few years providing they keep all they've gotten right. As the archetypal "I used to love PES but it's gotten shit"...It's definitely improved.


kouroux said:
@Mockney: has the dribbling (without tricks) been modified since PES2010 or is it the stuff ?
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A bit. But it's basically the same player models and system with better graphics and animation tweaks...so not hugely no. But you're probably better of asking someone who played PES10 a lot...I gave up after a while.
 
Mockney said:
Oh and I've gotten pen...you take them from the side on camera view...which is annoying
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John Murphy said in the full version that the penalties were 'normal' again. Thought they would be in the demo too. Irritating. Maybe Murphy was wrong on them being changed back.
 
Mockney said:
Yeah...I just re-read it an realised how negative it was...I think this will please PES fans. And if they can keep up the momentum, they could start to challenge FIFA again in a few years providing they keep all they've gotten right. As the archetypal "I used to love PES but it's gotten shit"...It's definitely improved.




A bit. But it's basically the same player models and system with better graphics and animation tweaks...so not hugely no. But you're probably better of asking someone who played PES10 a lot...I gave up after a while.
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Dribbling seemed a lot harder in the two games I played, found it very easy to get past players in 10.
 
Mockney said:
Oh and I've gotten pen...you take them from the side on camera view...which is annoying
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Nice to hear that.In 5-6 months of PES 2010 I've only had a grand total of 1 penalty

Mockney said:
A bit. But it's basically the same player models and system with better graphics and animation tweaks...so not hugely no. But you're probably better of asking someone who played PES10 a lot...I gave up after a while.
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I think the system in PES2010 specially when it comes to the weight and agility of players taking a big part in the outcome of a dribble.
Mitch Conor said:
Dribbling seemed a lot harder in the two games I played, found it very easy to get past players in 10.
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Hopefully it's just a learning thing as I felt the same when I started to play PES2010, I thought the dribbling was really difficult.
It takes time
 
I agree with you about the default Camera angle btw Mitch..It's nice..I switched back to FIFA just now and didn't like it so tried to modify it to be closer to it
 
Mockney said:
I think this still has more flaws than FIFA, but this version has far far less, and is still better at the things FIFA fails at (volleying, first time shooting and uniqueness) ...But I don't think this'll alter a lot of perceptions..What I thinkk it will do though is win back people like Pogue who think the last few versions have been shit. Pogue and the "purely PES" lot will like this game...and I think noods will as well actually. I like this game...I just don't think it's quite good enough to re-overtake FIFA quite yet...but it's a promising move in the right direction.

Those who like PES will rave that this is the best again...But I don't think it'll convert a lot of the FIFA crowd providing FIFA stays close to the WC game...

It seems like I'm focusing far more on what it's gotten wrong than what's right, but I do like this game..I'll probably get both this year.
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That's me sold to be honest. Those qualities in bold are too important an aspect of a football game (especially the "uniqueness" bit) for me to enjoy anything that lacks them, no matter how smoothly animated the players' running style might be. If all other aspects have improved then I'm a happy camper :D

Can you just clear one thing up, I think you said the AI (which I mentioned and noodles expanded on at length) has improved in this version? Is that right? Only the post I (half) quoted there gives the impression it's still crap?
 
I think you will like it Pogue..Again though, I didn't play PES10 enough to form a solid gold opinion on whether the AI has improved dramatically....The keeper AI is better, cos it was shocking in 10, ..I'm sure it is better yes, but still not quite good enough for me. There's still a fair bit of people not moving. Messi's been making some good runs on the right though
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's me sold to be honest. Those qualities in bold are too important an aspect of a football game (especially the "uniqueness" bit) for me to enjoy anything that lacks them, no matter how smoothly animated the players' running style might be. If all other aspects have improved then I'm a happy camper :D

Can you just clear one thing up, I think you said the AI (which I mentioned and noodles expanded on at length) has improved in this version? Is that right? Only the post I (half) quoted there gives the impression it's still crap?
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One of the best thing about PES is the ball physics when it comes to shooting.Like hitting a volley when the ball just bounced off the ground, it's so sweet
 
I scored a 30 yard volley off the post in my 2nd game...good feeling. It beats FIFA volleying hands down, though FIFA has got the ability to dip drastically, which - although is a bit cartoony at times - I think PES should try and incorporate a little more. Things like shinning in a mid heigt cross are satisfying too
 
Mockney said:
I think you will like it Pogue..Again though, I didn't play PES10 enough to form a solid gold opinion on whether the AI has improved dramatically....The keeper AI is better, cos it was shocking in 10, ..I'm sure it is better yes, but still not quite good enough for me. There's still a fair bit of people not moving. Messi's been making some good runs on the right though
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Forgot about that. Yes, it was dire.

I want over-lapping full-backs though. I need over-lapping full-backs.

Please tell me the over-lapping full-backs are back?
 
For me Pro at its best i.e. PS2 era.. was football games at its best thus far in the video game arena.. none of the new Fifa's in my opinion come close and I can openly admit that despite Fifa being clearly the better game on the next generation consoles.

On the old school pro's, you could shot-cancel very effectively and get past players without being barged off the ball repeatedly.. if you 'done' someone with a fake shot, you 'done' them, the attacker had the advantage and if they were in possession of a good player ala Messi/Ronaldo, that player would take advantage of the space in front of them and be ready to take on the next oncoming defender... in Fifa (Modern generation), dribbling is very difficult and not representative of the real game in my opinion especially when you just want to dribble (weave in and out) and knock it past an opponent and beat them for pace... too often the player on the ball is too sluggish in their movement and the opponent can just close a player with alot of pressure and get it off them. You also have to be in quite alot of space in order to use the skills button and utilise it effectively, whereas in the old school pro's, you could really bedazzle an opponent with the R2 button (Drag backs, step overs, flip flaps) .. it was simple to do and very effective.

The passing on Fifa on the floor is abit pinbally, but you could've said the same about Pro in its heyday and I like that about Fifa.. in fact its something fundamentally wrong in the new pro's because passing is a chore instead of an art and its painfully slow and cumbersome.. not at all like the reality they're attempting to simulate. Crossing is abit crazy on Fifa, way too much curl but it requires just a little adjustment as the feel of producing a cross is rather good.

Set pieces on Fifa are a joke, or well they were in Fifa 10.. literally score a free kick each time with very little skill element. Not only this but the movement of the ball when it goes in looks rather fake.

Shooting is incredibly formulaic in comparison to Pro Evo at its peak, chips are king as was the finesse button... I'd say 97% of my goals come from this method, with Pro you felt like you could score any type of goal and a variety of methods could be utilised depending on what area of the pitch you were.. and no one method was seen as the easy way.. lacing the ball also felt fantastic and real, whereas in Fifa its the least efficient shot and they always end up falling over once they've taken the shot unable to capitalise on a rebound.

A further fundamental flaw is the feel that when you're passing the ball around, its like you're having to play in a particular way and method, the movement of the players off the ball.. very static, I know you can change this through management etc but it should be a natural element rather than a manual adjustment having to be made.

As for the new gen Pro's they're so shit I can't even be arsed to go into depth, but I'm just hoping one day to play a next generation football game and feel the same sense of realism/liberation as I did when I was playing Pro Evo 5/6... knowing that a possible Maradona style goal was possible but very rare, I could score goals from 40 yards and it not feel baloony or fluky, passing movements were not samey but unpredictable and off the cuff.
 
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