Philippe Coutinho

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Cliche Guevara said:
You seem to only be seeing things out of concern over how dominant Spanish clubs currently are in football. This is about something more important than that.

It should apply to any player at any club. People should be entitled to choose where they live and work. Provided the club receives fair financial compensation they shouldn't be holding onto players against their wishes.

That's my personal opinion.
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You ARE entitled to choose where you live and work as a footballer.

But if you sign a contract, any contract really, you are obliged to stand by its terms. It is not unfair that Neymar can leave for £190M if that is his release clause but a club has every right to hold on to players under contract even though the player want to leave.

Clubs invest a lot in players and have a right to protect their interests as well. Why didn't Coutinho negotiate something that De Gea did in 2015 if he wanted to leave a door open for a move?

If PSG has violated the FFP rules it is very unfair for Barcelona.
 
when Coutinho signed his new contract I don't think Barca actually wanting to sign him was realistic in his thoughts. Now its on a plate for him, understandable he needs to do all he can to push it through
 
clarkydaz said:
when Coutinho signed his new contract I don't think Barca actually wanting to sign him was realistic in his thoughts. Now its on a plate for him, understandable he needs to do all he can to push it through
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Maybe not.

But it doesn't change much from Liverpool's point of view.

Should they be forced to replace their best player on short notice because Barca couldn't negotiate a release clause that was high enough?
 
TheLoveless said:
You ARE entitled to choose where you live and work as a footballer.

But if you sign a contract, any contract really, you are obliged to stand by its terms. It is not unfair that Neymar can leave for £190M if that is his release clause but a club has every right to hold on to players under contract even though the player want to leave.

Clubs invest a lot in players and have a right to protect their interests as well. Why didn't Coutinho negotiate something that De Gea did in 2015 if he wanted to leave a door open for a move?

If PSG has violated the FFP rules it is very unfair for Barcelona.
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You're not really, these 5 year contracts take up a huge chunk of your career. Even in the case of all contracts your only route out is to run down your contract which then opens the player up to risk and isn't a practice that clubs would want to encourage. If Liverpool now don't want to sell he's stuck there until his best years have passed.

In a short career players deserve the chance to move for trophies when the rare chance arrives. The clubs need protecting but its a balance.
 
Smores said:
You're not really, these 5 year contracts take up a huge chunk of your career. Even in the case of all contracts your only route out is to run down your contract which then opens the player up to risk and isn't a practice that clubs would want to encourage. If Liverpool now don't want to sell he's stuck there until his best years have passed.

In a short career players deserve the chance to move for trophies when the rare chance arrives. The clubs need protecting but its a balance.
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Yes, and that balance would be severely disturbed if we sold Coutinho now. If Barcelona offered anything near they're offering right now in the beginning of the transfer window, because they're in panic mode at the moment, he'd be gone by the beginning of July. Alas, they've left it too late and selling Coutinho now wouldn't make sense from our point of view since it would be very difficult to find an apt replacement.

I've no doubt that he'll be allowed to go next Summer, early in the window. As Klopp said, there's a time and a place for every transfer but this is neither the time nor place.
 
RobinLFC said:
Yes, and that balance would be severely disturbed if we sold Coutinho now. If Barcelona offered anything near they're offering right now in the beginning of the transfer window, because they're in panic mode at the moment, he'd be gone by the beginning of July. Alas, they've left it too late and selling Coutinho now wouldn't make sense from our point of view since it would be very difficult to find an apt replacement.

I've no doubt that he'll be allowed to go next Summer, early in the window. As Klopp said, there's a time and a place for every transfer but this is neither the time nor place.
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By that, it seems that this is not the time, but it IS the place.
 
RobinLFC said:
Yes, and that balance would be severely disturbed if we sold Coutinho now. If Barcelona offered anything near they're offering right now in the beginning of the transfer window, because they're in panic mode at the moment, he'd be gone by the beginning of July. Alas, they've left it too late and selling Coutinho now wouldn't make sense from our point of view since it would be very difficult to find an apt replacement.

I've no doubt that he'll be allowed to go next Summer, early in the window. As Klopp said, there's a time and a place for every transfer but this is neither the time nor place.
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Starting to get the impression the current situation ia a result of how liverpool handled it, i.e. total refusal to so much as consider an offer. Barca had been after Coutinho since mid July, when the Neymar to PSG deal became public. It's highly likely that Liverpool had been aware of Coutinho's wish to join Barcelona since the final weeks of July. I dunno, i just think had liverpool slapped a €150M price tag on him and Barcelona refused to pay it, the relationship between liverpool and coutinho wouldn't have soured like this...

Well, this is the summer of clubs pushing back against player power anyways, it's happening everywhere. Liverpool and Dortmund, Inter(no, i'm talking about kondogbia here :D), PSG, Leipzig, Sevilla(!!!), CAEN(!!!!!!!!!)...all had to deal with players in open rebellion, all took a hardline and are sticking to it
 
He signed a five and a half year deal.

Liverpool should tell him to shut the feck up, and Barca to feck off.
 
Smores said:
You're not really, these 5 year contracts take up a huge chunk of your career. Even in the case of all contracts your only route out is to run down your contract which then opens the player up to risk and isn't a practice that clubs would want to encourage. If Liverpool now don't want to sell he's stuck there until his best years have passed.

In a short career players deserve the chance to move for trophies when the rare chance arrives. The clubs need protecting but its a balance.
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Utter bollocks.

He didn't have to sign that lucrative contract which gives him financial security and Liverpool financial liability. But he did, as it was a good deal at the time.

Now he has to shut up and get on with it. Selling next summer may suit all parties if he is determined, but not right now.
 
KingMinger22 said:
Utter bollocks.

He didn't have to sign that lucrative contract which gives him financial security and Liverpool financial liability. But he did, as it was a good deal at the time.

Now he has to shut up and get on with it. Selling next summer may suit all parties if he is determined, but not right now.
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Consider for a while what Coutinho is going through. I agree, that he signed the contract but at that time he had no inkling that Barcelona would come for him. He was just trying to hedge his bets to maximise the value of his short career in football. I won't begrudge him that.

For clubs like Barca and Liverpool, this is just regular business and it will carry on for years and years - long after Coutinho has retired from the game and died. For him though, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to get to a place where he can play with the likes of Messi and Suarez. It's clear that Barca are desperate and maybe next window they won't even come for him and that's what makes him anxious.

Of course, from Liverpool's perspective it would be impossible to replace him so late in the window so it makes sense for them to force him to stay. But that doesn't take away the fact that he is mentally pretty fragile at this moment.
 
RobinLFC said:
Yes, and that balance would be severely disturbed if we sold Coutinho now. If Barcelona offered anything near they're offering right now in the beginning of the transfer window, because they're in panic mode at the moment, he'd be gone by the beginning of July. Alas, they've left it too late and selling Coutinho now wouldn't make sense from our point of view since it would be very difficult to find an apt replacement.

I've no doubt that he'll be allowed to go next Summer, early in the window. As Klopp said, there's a time and a place for every transfer but this is neither the time nor place.
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Yeah I agree. Even though selling Coutinho now would look like getting bullied by Barca, I believe it is a win-win for everyone. You have enough cover in his position and the extra money got get the VVD and Keita deals over the line.

Additionally, it will take the whole drama out of the club and they can concentrate on matters on the pitch, not outside of it.
 
I'm with Liverpool on this. Time to stop rolling over for the Spanish giants. He did sign the contract after all.
Ok, the longer the contract the more lucrative I suspect with higher wages and bonuses to sweeten the player to sign.
Maybe the future is going to be shorter contracts and lower salaries but that precludes the whole law of supply and demand.
The players/agents just have all the power at the moment.
 
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It's very clear from Klopp's comments to the press that he wants Coutinho gone, but its' ironically FSG who are adamant to not sell him. Klopp probably doesn't want to work with a player who had his eyes set on a move, but their owners are sticking to their guns. Guess their fans should be grateful to FSG.
 
Smores said:
You're not really, these 5 year contracts take up a huge chunk of your career. Even in the case of all contracts your only route out is to run down your contract which then opens the player up to risk and isn't a practice that clubs would want to encourage. If Liverpool now don't want to sell he's stuck there until his best years have passed.

In a short career players deserve the chance to move for trophies when the rare chance arrives. The clubs need protecting but its a balance.
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So don't sign a five year contract then. Lower your wage demands and sign a four year contract, negotiate a release clause or something.
 
Kapardin said:
It's very clear from Klopp's comments to the press that he wants Coutinho gone, but its' ironically FSG who are adamant to not sell him. Klopp probably doesn't want to work with a player who had his eyes set on a move, but their owners are sticking to their guns. Guess their fans should be grateful to FSG.
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What were the latest comments, think I missed them?
 
Kapardin said:
It's very clear from Klopp's comments to the press that he wants Coutinho gone, but its' ironically FSG who are adamant to not sell him. Klopp probably doesn't want to work with a player who had his eyes set on a move, but their owners are sticking to their guns. Guess their fans should be grateful to FSG.
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Not if they end up with a player not giving his all due to not getting the move he desired.

They will just have to hope that he can get his head down and work hard as it is a WC year and he needs to perform well to maintain his position in the Brazilian squad.
 
TheLoveless said:
So don't sign a five year contract then. Lower your wage demands and sign a four year contract, negotiate a release clause or something.
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I agree. Players can't have both the security of a long contract and the flexibility of a short one. Clubs need stability too, they can't be re-shaping their entire teams every year or two because players want to up-sticks.
 
Penna said:
I agree. Players can't have both the security of a long contract and the flexibility of a short one. Clubs need stability too, they can't be re-shaping their entire teams every year or two because players want to up-sticks.
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Agree 100% with this.

Player power / agent power and certain powerful teams are ruining the game.
 
TheLoveless said:
So don't sign a five year contract then. Lower your wage demands and sign a four year contract, negotiate a release clause or something.
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Penna said:
I agree. Players can't have both the security of a long contract and the flexibility of a short one. Clubs need stability too, they can't be re-shaping their entire teams every year or two because players want to up-sticks.
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Exactly this.

There seems to be a lot of people recently wanting players to be able to do whatever the feck they like and it's bollocks.

If a player doesn't want to be committed to a club for 5 year then he shouldn't sign a 5 year contract. It's not rocket science. To turn around a few months later and say "well I didn't know Barca were interested" is just tough, it you wanted that flexibility you should have negotiated a release clause in exchange for a lower salary.

Players can't have it both ways.
 
Sell him for shit loads and get Sigurdsson/Lanzini for a short term fix. They've got Mane and Salah to supply the pace/goals from wide areas.

Sigurdssons numbers for Swansea have been insane, he could easily continue that. Will be available for 40/50m.

Next year they can then reevaluate it.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Sell him for shit loads and get Sigurdsson/Lanzini for a short term fix. They've got Mane and Salah to supply the pace/goals from wide areas.

Sigurdssons numbers for Swansea have been insane, he could easily continue that. Will be available for 40/50m.

Next year they can then reevaluate it.
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Then they got to hurry up, Gylfi will sign for Everton within "48 hours" according to various sources. Do think he'll flop though just like he did at Spurs.
 
LuisNaniencia said:
What were the latest comments, think I missed them?
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Klopp said something along the lines of "whatever owners decide, I go with that, I just work with what I have etc". Pretty much shows he doesn't really care much about Coutinho leaving.

theyneverlearn said:
Not if they end up with a player not giving his all due to not getting the move he desired.

They will just have to hope that he can get his head down and work hard as it is a WC year and he needs to perform well to maintain his position in the Brazilian squad.
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Yes, I think the WC is FSG's trump card. They expect him to buckle down and do a Suarez once the window closes. He may do so too as he doesn't seem to have a particularly bad relationship with the squad.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Sell him for shit loads and get Sigurdsson/Lanzini for a short term fix. They've got Mane and Salah to supply the pace/goals from wide areas.

Sigurdssons numbers for Swansea have been insane, he could easily continue that. Will be available for 40/50m.

Next year they can then reevaluate it.
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If he really, really wants to go, then I'm inclined to agree with you. It's just that I don't see Lanzini or Sigurdsson as someone that could get get even near to replace what he gives our team. And from the VVD and Keita sagas it seems clear, that we have a very difficult time signing good players, and for us to then sell our best one would be suicide imo. We needed to upgrade our entire squad to be able to compete in both the league and CL and that hasn't happened.
We would be an injury to Mané away from having to field a quite ordinary team
 
How would 'pool fans feel if you got £100m for Coutinho and then pinched Sigurdsson for £50m? Then get VVD for £60-70m. Seems like the best way out at this point and you'll have only spent £20m in getting a decent CB and a reasonable Couthinho replacement.
 
Sigurdsson isn't good enough. Lanzini has the talent to do so. At a team surrounded by better better players it wouldn't surprise me if he steps it up a notch. Always liked him.
 
KingMinger22 said:
Utter bollocks.

He didn't have to sign that lucrative contract which gives him financial security and Liverpool financial liability. But he did, as it was a good deal at the time.

Now he has to shut up and get on with it. Selling next summer may suit all parties if he is determined, but not right now.
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Come off it no one would accept such practices in their own work life (i.e 10/20 year contract) so it really shouldn't be hard to emphasise with players. From a selfish fan perspective sure feck em but its not right to just trade them as assets.

I agree with what others have replied with that he should have negotiated a shorter contract or release clause but there's an assumption there that these things were available. These longer contracts certainly aren't to the benefit of only the player as you're stating for some reason.

We just need a formalisation of all this 'gentlemans agreement' lark, id be surprised if we don't have such an arrangement with De Gea.
 
The Purley King said:
How would 'pool fans feel if you got £100m for Coutinho and then pinched Sigurdsson for £50m? Then get VVD for £60-70m. Seems like the best way out at this point and you'll have only spent £20m in getting a decent CB and a reasonable Couthinho replacement.
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As I said before, if Coutinho really wants to go, then he should be allowed to, but only if we have replacements ready. And I'm not just talking a like for like replacement, as we'll never get anyone as good as him. like you said, a central defender and an attacking player would go a long way. I'm just not sure, if Sigurdsson is the way to go. I like Lanzini more, tbh.
 
Is he out of the CL qualifier? Liverpool can send out a pretty strong message if they play him tonight.
 
It's crazy money being offered, but if Liverpool can't get replacements that will significantly improve their team, there's no benefit in letting him go before next summer. Blowing £50m on a player like Sigurdsson would be insane. They need to start signing players that can take them to the next level, not just cement the level they're at.
 
Ballague again siding with Liverpool over the lying "Catalan press" he usually jumps on board with.
 
I can't begrudge him wanting to move to Barcelona. He's a great player who wants to play in Spain (as most South Americans do) and he wants to play with some of the best players in the world. If I had the chance to improve my pay by a huge percentage as well, I'd do it.
I hate the fact that Liverpool isn't the draw for players that it once was and that players actively want to leave us, as in my mind (as a supporter) Liverpool is the greatest club in the world (as most of you feel about Utd, Chelsea fan's feel about Chelsea etc).
Whether he leaves this summer or next, the club will continue.
 
Coutinho would get in the Brazil squad if he wasn't playing as long as he played well for Brazil so thats a gamble. Coutinho is going to be pissed off when he ends up spending most of his career at Liverpool or goes to PSG instead of his preferred option of Barca. That will sour his relationship with the club, whether he comes out and says anything is a different thing. Coutinho is a talented player and Barca want him because he seems to be available not because he is top tier, I suspect if they thought they could get a top tier player they would be doing that now, I think he understands that this will likely be his only chance to ever go to Barca, next year Barca could be after one of the world class players. That's why he wants to go now.

I do understand it from Liverpool's point of view though, but they are going to be left with a player who wanted to leave, handed in a transfer and then can't get a move to a CL/medal winning club (the only choice I think he would be left with is PSG).

It is a good question whether players may now start only signing short term contracts after seeing this kind of thing. If they no longer believe a club will sell them if they want to go then maybe they will ot for 2 year contracts. Players havent done this before as it was always assumed they could get a move if they wanted, if they start to see clubs blocking dream moves maybe they will only sign for 2 years at a time?
 
Nighteyes said:
Sigurdsson isn't good enough. Lanzini has the talent to do so. At a team surrounded by better better players it wouldn't surprise me if he steps it up a notch. Always liked him.
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Where do you get that?
Lanzini doesn´t even come close to Gylfi´s stats.. And he played for a much better team.

Gylfi played 38 games, score 9 goals, assisted 13, 59 key passes, 72 chances created. A score at Squawka of 1095.
Lanzini played 35 games, scored 8, assisted 2, 54 key passes, 56 chances created. A Squawka score of 973..

So if Gylfi isn´t good enough Lanzini sure as hell isn´t.. But I really hope that Liverpool will have no choice when the window closes.
 
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