Pep Guardiola agrees contract with Bayern

No surprise he's gone to a great club like Bayern. Teams like that and the likes of Juve and AC have a real romance about them. Some of my favourite teams.

Looking forward to see how he gets on.
 
kouroux said:
I would have loved to see him in an italian club.Now that would have been a proper challenge in the league and in Europe.
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Would you really like to work in a league with so much recent history of cheating? Stadiums are in a really bad condition and even top games don't sell out? The clubs have no money to buy and the youth isn't on a similar level to germany or spain now. I really don't think Italy is the place to be right now. It's similar to Germany after 2002, totally different reasons, but far away from being a great league. Give it 5 years, let them sort out most of the problems and Serie A will probably come back strong, just like the Bundesliga is doing now.
 
I'm curious, were you guys really thinking that highly of Bayern before Guardiola went there? Or are you just hyping Bayern now to make sure you can belittle Guardiola if he's successful with Bayern.

Over the last 3 years Bayern weren't talked about as highly on the RedCafe whenever I read about them. Sure a few posters recognized the quality in germany but overall most people were sure Bayern would get destroyed by Real in the semis last season and found some excuses when they progressed. Even at the beginning of this season Real were classed way above Bayern by most people.

Now it sounds like Bayern is the new Barca, seriously? That's ridiculous. I'm a Bayern supporter and I'm still not sure if we're a better team than Dortmund right now. I'm glad Dortmund struggled in the league so we're comfortable ahead of them. But I'm really scared of playing them in the german FA Cup in february and really don't want to face them in the CL. Having success in germany is far from guaranteed over the next years and winning the CL is always a difficult task, especially with Barca around. He basically needs to win the CL and at least two league titles in three years for his stay to be called successful, which is for sure a very difficult task. And he probably needs to do it without buying a superstar like Ronaldo, Falcao or van Persie but by bringing more german talents into the team, making them better players and place the team well for the future, if he leaves in three years. If that's not a challange, I really don't know what is these days.
 
Balu said:
I'm curious, were you guys really thinking that highly of Bayern before Guardiola went there? Or are you just hyping Bayern now to make sure you can belittle Guardiola if he's successful with Bayern.

Over the last 3 years Bayern weren't talked about as highly on the RedCafe whenever I read about them. Sure a few posters recognized the quality in germany but overall most people were sure Bayern would get destroyed by Real in the semis last season and found some excuses when they progressed. Even at the beginning of this season Real were classed way above Bayern by most people.

Now it sounds like Bayern is the new Barca, seriously? That's ridiculous. I'm a Bayern supporter and I'm still not sure if we're a better team than Dortmund right now. I'm glad Dortmund struggled in the league so we're comfortable ahead of them. But I'm really scared of playing them in the german FA Cup in february and really don't want to face them in the CL. Having success in germany is far from guaranteed over the next years and winning the CL is always a difficult task, especially with Barca around. He basically needs to win the CL and at least two league titles in three years for his stay to be called successful, which is for sure a very difficult task. And he probably needs to do it without buying a superstar like Ronaldo, Falcao or van Persie but by bringing more german talents into the team, making them better players and place the team well for the future, if he leaves in three years. If that's not a challange, I really don't know what is these days.
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I don't think anyone on here see's Bayern in the same league (ability wise) as the likes of Barca, Madrid and maybe even United etc but everyone has always spoken about Bayern with the upmost respect on here.

Like I said above, they're one of those teams that has a real romance about them. One of my favourite teams.
 
#Carl said:
I don't think anyone on here see's Bayern in the same league (ability wise) as the likes of Barca, Madrid and maybe even United etc but everyone has always spoken about Bayern with the upmost respect on here.

Like I said above, they're one of those teams that has a real romance about them. One of my favourite teams.
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Just to make sure, I don't think there's a lack of respect towards the club on here. I'm just wondering why so many call managing Bayern not as big a challange as managing another top team in europe. That's ridiculous, imo. It really doesn't make sense at all. I get why managing United would be the ultimate challenge, not only because of the size of the club but because of Ferguson's legacy. But I think it's sad if people see managing City or Chelsea with an endless supply of money as a bigger challenge than being successful at Bayern, especially on a United board where building a team with talents brought through the academy or at least brought into the club at a very young age should be regarded as a very difficult task. Building a team that's competing for the CL every year that way is something no club besides Barca, United and Bayern managed to do over the last 20 years. Yet buying success like Milan, Juve, Inter, Real, Chelsea and City is regarded as the real deal. It's strange that so many United fans can't appreciate when other managers are doing what made Ferguson the greatest of all time. Managing a large group of homegrown players who not only are very talented but work very hard for the team's success without putting their egos first and building a successful team around them is something Mourinho, Mancini, Ancelotti for example never achieved.
 
Balu said:
It's strange that so many United fans can't appreciate when other managers are doing what made Ferguson the greatest of all time. Managing a large group of homegrown players who not only are very talented but work very hard for the team's success without putting their egos first and building a successful team around them is something Mourinho, Mancini, Ancelotti for example never achieved.
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To be fair at both Barca and Bayern Pep will have inherited excellent teams with great youth set ups. Much different to Fergie who inherited an idea and a badge really, he practically rebuilt the club.

Not to say anyone who doesn't do that isn't a great manager, obviously, you don't get many Feriges. I think people are right to say Bayern is a "lesser" challenge though. They're easily the biggest club in their league, aside from Dortmund they don't have too many real competitors (they're running away with it this season so far anyway). Plus, as you say Bayern (like Barca) have a solid contingent of players who know what the club is all about, have come through the ranks and will give 100% for the team. I'd say that's far preferable to managing a squad of mercs and prima donnas like City or Real.

No slight on Pep, it's a good job for him to take and if he does well I doubt anyone will say "yeah but...". No doubt Europe will be his real test, combined with keeping Bayern's squad up to scratch, transfers being something he really fecked up at Barca, although he'll have a DoF etc to work with at Bayern.
 
kouroux said:
I would have loved to see him in an italian club.Now that would have been a proper challenge in the league and in Europe.
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Nothing a few brown envelopes couldn't solve.

I'm looking forward to seeing how he gets on. I would like to see how much he changes behind the scenes. Will he try to alter the youth set up to be more like Barcelona? There's a lot of powerful people at Bayern.

I don't really see why people are saying he's getting it easy. He's had an incredible 3 years at the top of the game and has earned the right to stay there. It's real life not FM, he's not realistically going to drop to a fault wrong side with a load of problems and try to fix it all.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
To be fair at both Barca and Bayern Pep will have inherited excellent teams with great youth set ups. Much different to Fergie who inherited an idea and a badge really, he practically rebuilt the club.

Not to say anyone who doesn't do that isn't a great manager, obviously, you don't get many Feriges. I think people are right to say Bayern is a "lesser" challenge though. They're easily the biggest club in their league, aside from Dortmund they don't have too many real competitors (they're running away with it this season so far anyway). Plus, as you say Bayern (like Barca) have a solid contingent of players who know what the club is all about, have come through the ranks and will give 100% for the team. I'd say that's far preferable to managing a squad of mercs and prima donnas like City or Real.

No slight on Pep, it's a good job for him to take and if he does well I doubt anyone will say "yeah but...". No doubt Europe will be his real test, combined with keeping Bayern's squad up to scratch, transfers being something he really fecked up at Barca, although he'll have a DoF etc to work with at Bayern.
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So you think that it's not very important to leave a quality team well setup for the future behind? When Pep took over Barca they were a mess with a few mercs and prima donnas as the most important players. He got rid of them and build the team we see today. Compare that to Mourinho at Inter, a team full of Mercs, lots of them brought into the club by Mourinho. He got one great season out of them where most players were easily motivated because they were basically kicked out of their old clubs and wanted to prove how good they are. The next season the club was a mess, all the egos wanted to be stars more than work for the club. Mourinho left and no one was around to manage these guys.

That would never happen with a manager like Guardiola or Ferguson. Can you imagine Ferguson leaving the club that way just to have a last shot at the champions league? No way. Influencing the future of the club, building a team to stay at the top and not to have just a single shot is - at least in my opinion - way more difficult. Do you really think Barca would be in the same position right now if Mourinho took over instead of Pep in 2008? He probably would have won the CL as well, no doubt about that.

Sure you're right, doing the same he did at Barca - I'm not talking about winning 14 trophies but building a team that's better than the sum of its parts with a core of homegrown players - is probably easier at Bayern than at Chelsea or City. But that's probably because the owners aren't interested at all or at least patient enough to let him do exactly that. So you can't real call it less of a challange when he chooses a club that supports his idea of the game. It's just a perfect fit.
 
Balu said:
Sure you're right, doing the same he did at Barca - I'm not talking about winning 14 trophies but building a team that's better than the sum of its parts with a core of homegrown players - is probably easier at Bayern than at Chelsea or City. But that's probably because the owners aren't interested at all or at least patient enough to let him do exactly that. So you can't real call it less of a challange when he chooses a club that supports his idea of the game. It's just a perfect fit.
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It is a great fit and that's my point. In that sense it isn't going to be as much of a challenge for him as taking over a team left behind by a Mourinho or a team needing building like the early Chelsea days.

Like Steve said, he's got no incentive nor reason to take a job at a club like that, he's earned the right to get a job at a club like Bayern. It's still very similar to his Barca post though is what I'm saying, so anyone who said they didn't rate him because the Barcelona job was "too easy" is unlikely to change their mind if he does relatively well at Bayern since most of the same caveats apply. Obviously again if he does well in Europe with them I don't think people can have much doubt as to his ability.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Nothing a few brown envelopes couldn't solve.

I'm looking forward to seeing how he gets on. I would like to see how much he changes behind the scenes. Will he try to alter the youth set up to be more like Barcelona? There's a lot of powerful people at Bayern.

I don't really see why people are saying he's getting it easy. He's had an incredible 3 years at the top of the game and has earned the right to stay there. It's real life not FM, he's not realistically going to drop to a fault wrong side with a load of problems and try to fix it all.
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Bayern started to overhaul the youth setup and are talking about building a new acadamy right now. With van Gaal starting the process at Bayern in 2009 and Jonker (van Gaal's assistent coach at Barca and Bayern) coaching the second team for a year, there are already some ideas similar to Barca's at the club. Sammer was director of sport for the german FA and influenced the youth development in germany between 2006 and 2012, so he's the perfect man for the job as well. Basically with Guardiola and Sammer two of the most influential guys for Spain's and Germany's massive amount of quality young talents come together at Bayern in a time where Bayern wants to build a new acadamy. Should be great.
 
It'd be interesting to see how this move effects the German National Team.
 
KM said:
It'd be interesting to see how this move effects the German National Team.
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I was thinking this last night, as well. A good number of Bayern's players form the backbone of the NT and with WC14 around the corner I imagine it could potentially boost their chances under Pep
 
So Pep leaves the best team in the world and one of the best ever to one of the best teams in the world with the potential to be the best, wow Pep. Amazing stuff. You're going to prove your doubters wrong.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
It is a great fit and that's my point. In that sense it isn't going to be as much of a challenge for him as taking over a team left behind by a Mourinho or a team needing building like the early Chelsea days.

Like Steve said, he's got no incentive nor reason to take a job at a club like that, he's earned the right to get a job at a club like Bayern. It's still very similar to his Barca post though is what I'm saying, so anyone who said they didn't rate him because the Barcelona job was "too easy" is unlikely to change their mind if he does relatively well at Bayern since most of the same caveats apply. Obviously again if he does well in Europe with them I don't think people can have much doubt as to his ability.
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Yeah okay. That's true, no doubt about that. I still think it's strange to call it a greater challenge to go to a club with totally different ideas and expectations, though. That's not a challenge, that's a recipe for disaster, imo. I think him being successful at Bayern would prove more that he's capable of managing United while failing at Chelsea or City wouldn't prove that he's the wrong man for the job.
 
Swaters16 said:
So Pep leaves the best team in the world and one of the best ever to one of the best teams in the world with the potential to be the best, wow Pep. Amazing stuff. You're going to prove your doubters wrong.
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He's earnt the right to take the job. Some of these comments are utterly bizarre. Why would ge go to a club in the shit when he's got the opportunity to join a great club like Bayern?

He would actually prove his doubters wrong if he turned Bayern into a club that dominates Germany and the CL. Whilst Bayern are class they aren't in Barca's league and don't have Xavi, Iniesta and Messi for a start!
 
#Carl said:
He's earnt the right to take the job. Some of these comments are utterly bizarre. Why would ge go to a club in the shit when he's got the opportunity to join a great club like Bayern?

He would actually prove his doubters wrong if he turned Bayern into a club that dominates Germany and the CL. Whilst Bayern are class they aren't in Barca's league and don't have Xavi, Iniesta and Messi for a start!
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Did he earn it though? Look at Tito, Barcelona are still as good as ever. You can't tell me that it just so happens that Barcelona's last two coaches just happened to be amazing tactical geniuses. It is the club and the players. The coach is just there. The team is really just that good.

Winning with Barcelona and Bayern Munich is hardly impressive either. Not winning would be an absolute disaster.
 
FCBarca said:
I was thinking this last night, as well. A good number of Bayern's players form the backbone of the NT and with WC14 around the corner I imagine it could potentially boost their chances under Pep
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The problem with the nationalteam is, up until now Löw totally failed using the quality work of Dortmund or Bayern. He played in a different way to both teams, never used one of the great defensive setups of Dortmund or Bayern and got his tactics totally wrong at the semi final vs Italy. It's still baffling how much playing time Podolski gets when players like Reus, Götze or Müller were available, for example. Maybe he respects Guardiola's work more than Klopp's or Heynckes' (the way he talks about the Bundesliga teams, especially about Dortmund is really sad and ignorant) so he'll use Guardiola's ideas. There's a really big questionmark about Löw's work these days, as great as it was up until 2010. It doesn't look like he's the right manager to take this team to the next level but we'll see what happens in 2014. The team is still incredibly young and will probably peak between 2016 and 2020.

I'm really excited about Klopp and Guardiola working in the same league. Could lead to some very interesting developments in tactics. I rate Klopp very highly on so many levels and he already stated that he stays at Dortmund at least until 2016. So two of the best managers in the game - maybe the best ones in making players individually better - work in germany. Yes, that really should help the german nationalteam. We just need a manager who knows how to use it like del Bosque did for Spain. Someone like Heynckes or Hitzfeld would be perfect but maybe Löw turns it around even though I highly doubt it.
 
Balu said:
Would you really like to work in a league with so much recent history of cheating? Stadiums are in a really bad condition and even top games don't sell out? The clubs have no money to buy and the youth isn't on a similar level to germany or spain now. I really don't think Italy is the place to be right now. It's similar to Germany after 2002, totally different reasons, but far away from being a great league. Give it 5 years, let them sort out most of the problems and Serie A will probably come back strong, just like the Bundesliga is doing now.
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You missed my point.I'm not saying he should have gone to Italy, I'm saying it'd be far more interesting and revealing about his quality to have gone to clubs like Inter or AC Milan.


Danny1982 said:
Why?
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Because Bayern are as dominant as Barca in their leagues, Guardiola will always receive these slightly ironic digs about his ability as a manager.It's a good choice by his perspective but for me it's 'meh', what will happen in Europe will be the true test for him and not in the Bundesliga
 
Balu said:
Yeah okay. That's true, no doubt about that. I still think it's strange to call it a greater challenge to go to a club with totally different ideas and expectations, though. That's not a challenge, that's a recipe for disaster, imo. I think him being successful at Bayern would prove more that he's capable of managing United while failing at Chelsea or City wouldn't prove that he's the wrong man for the job.
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Perhaps different challenge then rather than a bigger one. I think United requires a combination of both approaches to be fair. My only trepidation with Pep is so far he's not really played a blinder in terms of transfers. Yes United have a good youth set up and decent younger players but we'd be delusional to claim that our current set up has the same sort of production line and core that certainly Barca and to a lesser extent Munchen have. A manager coming in is going to have a great squad left over from Fergie certainly but we'll need someone with decent transfer nous too and Bayern could be a good test in that area for Pep, maybe.
 
Swaters16 said:
Did he earn it though? Look at Tito, Barcelona are still as good as ever. You can't tell me that it just so happens that Barcelona's last two coaches just happened to be amazing tactical geniuses.
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Shankly -> Paisley
 
Swaters16 said:
Did he earn it though? Look at Tito, Barcelona are still as good as ever. You can't tell me that it just so happens that Barcelona's last two coaches just happened to be amazing tactical geniuses. It is the club and the players. The coach is just there. The team is really just that good.

Winning with Barcelona and Bayern Munich is hardly impressive either. Not winning would be an absolute disaster.
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I still can't wrap my head around how leaving a great team behind with the next manager instantly being successful somehow proves the former manager wasn't special while leaving a mess behind so the successor is doomed to fail proves the former manager was great. That's wrong on so many levels. I really don't get it.

When Heynckes took over after van Gaal at Bayern he praised the work and told the media how great it is to start working with a well setup team, so he can focus on making a great team an outstanding one. Few managers do that, especially at top teams with lots of star players and huge egos involved and the few should be praised for it but instead some fans use it to belittle their achievements.

kouroux said:
You missed my point.I'm not saying he should have gone to Italy, I'm saying it'd be far more interesting and revealing about his quality to have gone to clubs like Inter or AC Milan.
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Depends on what qualities in a manager you're looking for.

kouroux said:
Because Bayern are as dominant as Barca in their leagues, Guardiola will always receive these slightly ironic digs about his ability as a manager.It's a good choice by his perspective but for me it's 'meh', what will happen in Europe will be the true test for him and not in the Bundesliga
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It's really strange I missed that domestic dominance. Did I miss out on celebrating all the titles Bayern won the last two seasons? Somehow I thought another team set an all time record in points total for the league this summer, maybe it was just a nightmare?

Bayern haven't won a single title the last two seasons, not one. Yet so many people talk like they've won everything without another team coming close. Oh and you know, that team which in fact really dominated in germany the last 2 years outplayed the english champion as well this season but yeah they probably will give up just because Guardiola is in the league now, why bother.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Perhaps different challenge then rather than a bigger one. I think United requires a combination of both approaches to be fair. My only trepidation with Pep is so far he's not really played a blinder in terms of transfers. Yes United have a good youth set up and decent younger players but we'd be delusional to claim that our current set up has the same sort of production line and core that certainly Barca and to a lesser extent Munchen have. A manager coming in is going to have a great squad left over from Fergie certainly but we'll need someone with decent transfer nous too and Bayern could be a good test in that area for Pep, maybe.
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Well there comes the different setup at german clubs into play. Pep won't be in charge for transfers, Sammer is and he'll make sure that all transfers make sense for the club long term, Pep isn't in the same position Ferguson is at United. Pep will be involved, of course, but he's not the one making the final decision.
 
kouroux said:
You missed my point.I'm not saying he should have gone to Italy, I'm saying it'd be far more interesting and revealing about his quality to have gone to clubs like Inter or AC Milan.




Because Bayern are as dominant as Barca in their leagues, Guardiola will always receive these slightly ironic digs about his ability as a manager.It's a good choice by his perspective but for me it's 'meh', what will happen in Europe will be the true test for him and not in the Bundesliga
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From whom? From you?

It looks like you are deliberately trying to throw him in teams that don't fit his style, and it gives the impression that you just want to see him fail.

Everybody here was asking to see Pep coaching another team, one that didn't have Messi, Xavi and Iniesta in its squad. Well he is now..

He didn't go to Man City or Chelsea, where everybody thought he'll be going.. He wasn't after the money, wasn't after unlimited spending resources, and wasn't after coaching in the "best league in the world". He deserves credit for his choice, but it's still not obvious how successful he'll be with them.. Let's wait till the season actually begins (2013-2014) before we criticize/compliment him for his coaching ability..

Also you didn't answer my question: "Why?".. AC Milan and Inter Milan are also dominant in their league, so don't really see your point..
 
Balu said:
Depends on what qualities in a manager you're looking for.
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It goes without saying.

Danny1982 said:
From whom? From you?

It looks like you are deliberately trying to throw him in teams that don't fit his style, and it gives the impression that you just want to see him fail.

Everybody here was asking to see Pep coaching another team, one that didn't have Messi, Xavi and Iniesta in its squad. Well he is now..

He didn't go to Man City or Chelsea, where everybody thought he'll be going.. He wasn't after the money, wasn't after unlimited spending resources, and wasn't after coaching in the "best league in the world". He deserves credit for his choice, but it's still not obvious how successful he'll be with them.. Let's wait till the season actually begins (2013-2014) before we criticize/compliment him for his coaching ability..
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It looks like it if you wanna believe it because I don't mean at all, I don't care if he'll succeed or fail tbh.

The digs he'll receive aren't from me but from people I meet and talk about football every day.They've never rated him as one of the best coaches ( I kinda agree with them but not to the same extreme where they think he's just 'ok').
 
kouroux said:
It goes without saying.



It looks like it if you wanna believe it because I don't mean at all, I don't care if he'll succeed or fail tbh.

The digs he'll receive aren't from me but from people I meet and talk about football every day.They've never rated him as one of the best coaches ( I kinda agree with them but not to the same extreme where they think he's just 'ok').
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Of course he isn't one of the best coaches; he hasn't coached in England yet, silly...

Two Champions Leagues and 3 La Liga's in 4 seasons of management back up his ability as a coach. The inheritance argument doesn't really hold up either considering how terrible they were before him and how unbelievably good they are after him.
 
Pink Moon said:
Of course he isn't one of the best coaches; he hasn't coached in England yet, silly...

Two Champions Leagues and 3 La Liga's in 4 seasons of management back up his ability as a coach. The inheritance argument doesn't really hold up either considering how terrible they were before him and how unbelievably good they are after him.
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We'll see just how good he is in the next 2-3 years. Right now, I have no idea if he's amazing beyond belief, or just an incredibly lucky manager who happened to take over a team just as Messi started to be Messi, and and Iniesta and Xavi started to realise their vast potential.
 
I think if there are aspects that there is zero doubt about Guardiola it's the winning mentality he has set in the Barca players' minds and his motivational skills.
 
Swaters16 said:
Did he earn it though? Look at Tito, Barcelona are still as good as ever. You can't tell me that it just so happens that Barcelona's last two coaches just happened to be amazing tactical geniuses. It is the club and the players. The coach is just there. The team is really just that good.

Winning with Barcelona and Bayern Munich is hardly impressive either. Not winning would be an absolute disaster.
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Yes. He's quite clearly earnt it.
 
Swaters16 said:
Winning with Barcelona and Bayern Munich is hardly impressive either. Not winning would be an absolute disaster.
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I think Bayern is a great opportunity for him. Can he get them playing in a similar style to his Barcelona team, can he take them to CL finals?

All these questions will be answered, and of course he earned a crack at the Bayern job.
 
I'm always right said:
We'll see just how good he is in the next 2-3 years. Right now, I have no idea if he's amazing beyond belief, or just an incredibly lucky manager who happened to take over a team just as Messi started to be Messi, and and Iniesta and Xavi started to realise their vast potential.
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You make it sound like a total fluke and that Pep literally had no impact on the team.

Messi was a different style of player before Pep not to mention that he was injury prone which Guardiola's fitness regimes have clearly sorted out.
 
This thread is bizarre. Clearly Pep should've joined someone like QPR to prove his managerial credentials to the people on here.
 
Swaters16 said:
Winning with Barcelona and Bayern Munich is hardly impressive either. Not winning would be an absolute disaster.
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And winning with Man United is?

in only 4 years of management Guardiola's already won as many Champions League's as Ferguson has and many are quick to tell you he's the greatest manager of all time.

Edit: I agree that he is, fwiw. But the point remains, it doesn't matter who you're managing. Credit when credit is due.
 
Pink Moon said:
You make it sound like a total fluke and that Pep literally had no impact on the team.
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I don't make it sound like anything, I said I don't know if he just got lucky with the players or he's amazing beyond belief.

The next few years should tell us all. If he can create a team to rival that Barca one in Munich then I'll say he's already the best manager in history and he will have completely revolutionised the game.
 
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