True, its amazing that fans of this wonderful club have somehow developed an inferiority complex.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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There's a significant difference between risk and an inferiority complex. Pogba, much like Angel Di Maria and Radamel Falcao would be a risky move.
I think the assumption that he will hop around from club to club is a pretty big one, given that its based on almost no precedent. He's only made 1 transfer (we aren't counting his academy transfer from Le Havre, are we?) and he had every reason to do so.
Collectively, his move as a kid which in and of itself was a bit controversial at the time, with his sudden departure from us due to lack of playing time, combined with him leaving Juventus again to return to us, is not a good start. He will be more like Anelka than Henry in this regard.
I think the reason people are thinking that is that they still think he left us for monetary reasons, and thus will be money motivated in the future.
The way I see it there are 4 clubs that have a decent chance of signing Pogba: Ourselves, Real, PSG and Chelsea.
Chelsea would be an absolute disaster.No positives what so ever.Worst case scenario.
If PSG signs him,I think Verrati might become available.I'm not sure if they wouod work so well together,PSG will need to raise funds to sign Pogba, Pogba is french and Verrati is italien.
Same story with Madrid, will have to raise funds,Bale,Modric etc. may be available.
Him coming to United would obviously be fantastic.Will be interesting either way.Think he will definately move this Summer.
Chelsea would be an absolute disaster.No positives what so ever.Worst case scenario.
If PSG signs him,I think Verrati might become available.I'm not sure if they wouod work so well together,PSG will need to raise funds to sign Pogba, Pogba is french and Verrati is italien.
Same story with Madrid, will have to raise funds,Bale,Modric etc. may be available.
Him coming to United would obviously be fantastic.Will be interesting either way.Think he will definately move this Summer.
His move as a kid may have been financially controversial but it was a move any sane young footballer would make at the time. As for him leaving here, I stand by my previous statement that he had a good reason to leave. If/when he leaves Juventus, it will be to get out of that dead end league he's currently playing in.
On the other hand, if he only comes here for 3-5 seasons, I'd expect us to do very well in that time period.
With all respect to Juventus, there is a difference between them and Man Utd, Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Chelsea, City etc. They can't offer the same wages, and even though they are very good at finding bargains, they don't have the financial power to compete with the top clubs and therefore a player with dreams of winning CL would likely seek to move. When Pogba moves from Juventus, i think it would be hard for him to be a club jumper seeing as he is a super expensive player and the club buying him would expect to have a player on their hands for the rest of his peak career. Juventus was a great move for him in his development, but he is getting too big for them, his next club would imo probably be his first and last big move. I could be wrong though 
Fixed.
Yep, there is no doubt on that.
I like Pogba very much, and don't share Caf's grudge for him leaving us. But I really can't see how he will suit our system. He's better than anything we have in midfield but he makes Herrera looks a very safe passer in comparison. Unless LVG decides to give him more free role (which I can't see LVG doing for any central midfielder) I just don't see how he will suit us. If we sign him, I don't think that we can see his best under LVG. I would be very surprised if we are going for him.
To a degree, the same thing can be said for Bale, but he is a winger and LVG might give more freedom to a player or two in attacking positions. But on midfield. he likes robots. And Pogba is anything but that.
There was no reason for him to be patient. He was better than any midfielder we had and wasn't getting any playtime even when all of our crappy midfielders were unavailabe. It isn't that he left us for Stoke or Crystal Palace, he left us for a club that is as prestigious as United (even more for a Frenchmen).
Anyway, the problem here is more that he'll cost us a lot and isn't exactly a Van Gaal type of player. Not neccesarily he'll want to leave for Madrid (otherwise he'll go to Madrid now) and as long as we keep his contract in check, we will get our investment (and more) from him (assuming that he plays well). The problem though (IMO) is that like Di Maria, he might not be very suited to our risk free passing system, and so won't look anywhere near as good as in Juve's setup.
So what you're suggesting is that, if you played at Le Havre, and Manchester United wanted you to join the academy, you'd stay at Le Havre. I wouldn't call that impatient, I'd call that a lack of motivation.
In that case we would be as good a club as any for him. In case you missed it, Woody is the Birdman of football. He isn't afraid to spend.
The fact is, Madrid are the top club in world football, and if he moves anywhere other than there (except perhaps Barcelona, who would never sell to them now) - then the Madrid move will always be there to make. This is basically what everyone is thinking in my view. All this talk of he will leave us in a few years. And go where? Chelsea? City? Since when did our best players decide to join them for more money?
If he were Portuguese, people would say that any latino is destined for Spain one day, but it seems that is extended to 'any very top player'. The PL is the place to be, and if he were to join Madrid, other than screwing us contractually, which he hasn't done to Juve, there is no way we will make a loss on him. If he is worth any less than what we paid for him, no chance Madrid will want him anyway.
If he were Portuguese, people would say that any latino is destined for Spain one day, but it seems that is extended to 'any very top player'. The PL is the place to be, and if he were to join Madrid, other than screwing us contractually, which he hasn't done to Juve, there is no way we will make a loss on him. If he is worth any less than what we paid for him, no chance Madrid will want him anyway.
That shouldn't stop us from getting top players, just because we don't sell them. We are rich, we will be alright.
I'll let you choose - would you rather stay in Man Utd when you couldn't even start a game when the club is severely in short of midfielders, or go to Juventus that promises you first team football? Juventus is not a small club, and if they are offering playing time as well I do not see how is that Pogba being impatient. He's just being ambitious and confident in his own abilities.
wouldn't ever tough him again.
the fee would be colossal, he's already walked out on us once, and we can better use the money elsewhere.
why would you go there?
it's like the classic begging an ex who has cheated on you back scenario
the fee would be colossal, he's already walked out on us once, and we can better use the money elsewhere.
why would you go there?
it's like the classic begging an ex who has cheated on you back scenario
I can understand why Pogba did what he did, but I wouldn't have done the same myself. I agree with SAF that Pogba went about it all the wrong way and acted disrespectfully to the club. When he left he burned more bridges than was necessary. I'm not particularly bothered if we get him or not, because as good of a footballer as he is, I wouldn't trust him or his agent as far as I could throw them.
Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I read SAF since saying that he was promised first team football with us. But as I said originally, he was impatient and wanted it immediately.
If the likes of Januzaj, Wilson and Pereira had Pogba's attitude, they would all leave to clubs that could offer them first team football. As far as I'm concerned they have been better advised and shown much more respect to the club in the way they're going about their careers. If Pogba had stayed here, I see no reason why he wouldn't be just as good as he is at Juventus. He'd inevitably have got the game time he sought when the manager thought he was ready for it. Not when he deemed himself ready for it.
From what I understand the plan was to ease him into the team and then unleash him the summer he left, but Ferguson didn't liked his attitude and didn't wanted to reward that attitude with playing time.
Ji-Sung Park and Rafael got picked to play midfield over Pogba against Blackburn in December 2011 at Old Trafford.
I would leave as well...
http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/276115.html
I would leave as well...
http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/276115.html
Ashley Young is being picked ahead of Di Maria! Should he up and go he is a worldy afterall unlike Pogba who had shown nothing to suggest he should be starting in the first team that year in the reserves games!
@Rozay Is spot on about the inferiority complex, it started with the selling of Ronaldo and with De Gea likely to go the same way it's perpetuates the feeling that we can't keep the top players from the Spanish wankers.
Yeah, Pogba had stopped putting in the effort with the reserves and we treated him as we would any other player who thought they were too good to try.
It's frustrating because he walked into the Juventus team, so he was clearly good enough, but if his effort didn't deserve a place then so long.
Least Ashley and ADM play the same position. I mean we all agree Rooney deserves his starts, but not many were happy seeing him line-up at CM.
And more importantly Pogba is clearly class. Like I said just my opinion, but if his talent backs up his belief and we did not want to start him, then fair play to Pogba for wanting to go somewhere that he will get playing time.
I certainly think we ruined this and at least i hold no ill will towards Pogba for having ambition to play 1st team football and to also easily have the skill to do so.
I'm sure I once read a Fergie interview saying that Pogba was talking with Juve long before that. I may be wrong though.
It's even more frustrating considering we had a midfield with the likes of Cleverly and Anderson while Juventus had Vidal, Pirlo, Marchasio but deemed Pogba good enough to come in and start matches.
They were our competition when he was at Le Havre and they never stopped contacts with his brother according to some journos.
Poor comparison because Young and Di Maria are playing in the position but Park and Rafael aren't central midfielders like Pogba.
He started because Marchisio injured himself, though.
Could be... and could be that Pogba felt he wasn't going to get a start regardless so why work... ?
And this also could be true.
I mean i will never know what happened at Carrington or between Pogba, SAF, his agent and Juventas. The only facts I know are he never started a game for us and he walked into the starting team at Juventas. Based on these facts I think we missed something.
But surely he was guaranteed game time when he signed for them? So he would have been getting first team football anyway.
No, he wasn't guaranteed anything except being a member of the professional team.
Ok :s
No chance.
Eh so if Rooney plays wide and as a result Adnan decides to leave and becomes a god thats also a feck up by us even tho Adnan has shown more than Pogba did and yet we'd all play Rooney ahead of him, just like we would all choose Park in there ahead of a young unproven Pogba! People are judging Pogba then based on now. insane logic and Rafa and fabio in midfield tore Arsenal a new one in the cup I recall.....
The only reason that Real Madrid have emerged in the last ten years as the pinnacle place for the elite player is simply because they consistently spent the most money.
Biggest fees, highest wages.
If we did that for ten years we would quickly become the pinnacle club.
We have never in our history been more attractive to players as we now offer top wages.
Fergie and Gill, perhaps restrained by the Glazes, never offered market rates for top players. Hence why we missed out on a strong of our targets. And it's why we finished seventh last season.
Biggest fees, highest wages.
If we did that for ten years we would quickly become the pinnacle club.
We have never in our history been more attractive to players as we now offer top wages.
Fergie and Gill, perhaps restrained by the Glazes, never offered market rates for top players. Hence why we missed out on a strong of our targets. And it's why we finished seventh last season.
I think Madrid/Barca have a special appeal that we currently lack. As @Rozay said they have a history/tradition of big money world class players and it seems that players look at it as an honour to go to those to clubs. Actually now that I think about it Aguero and Silva are at Manchester City so it is basically money!
Yeah we were definitely restrained by the glazers absolutely ridiculous loan repayments and overall stinginess. Hopefully that has changed now. I think it's also fair to say that if you assemble a top of the line squad it becomes easier to bring in top players for cheaper prices (like Kroos to Madrid, Lewandowski to Bayern etc) because they want to play for you and play with world class players.
I can't speak for others but i would have given him more chances in the 2011-2012 season.
To play Park in midfield against Blackburn was a bit understandable but to play Rafael ahead of Pogba was wrong.
I would rather play Januzaj instead of Rooney on the wing or A.Pereira instead of Rooney in central midfield or Blackett instead of Blind as CB.
The money those two clubs spend goes hand in hand with their reputation. By spending money they got to win so many titles and also have the "sexiest" names in world football. The players from this generation admired the best players from the last generation, and those admired the players from the last generation, and so on. Players want to be associated with greatness and prestige. Players today want to join Real Madrid because of the lineage of players they had. Zidane, Ronaldo, etc... This will continue as long as they keep getting those names. Players want to wear the same jersey their heroes wore.
You're just nuts!
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