It's a bit bizarre tbh. It has turned into a Neville hatred thread.
Paul Pogba racially abused on social media
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
So you're saying he was singling him out?
So you wouldn't be surprised if he's racist because of his skin colour and where he's from?
Which would be pretty much every town in the world, given human nature.
Stop slinging your 'I don't think he's racist, but *insert vague insinuations*' around.
still waiting for the evidence
I wouldn't be surprised if he happened to have subconscious biases. Which might be part of why he really doesn't understand or seems to have a big problem with pogba.
Fecking hell, so we're now implying people could be racist based on their skin color and where they were brought up..
Quoting this for visibility.
I honestly do not understand how people are still in this thread acting as if race may not be at play here if they are actually reading this thread.
People are actively ignoring any form of context in some arguments.
I experienced this in the Ariel thread, the second that the word 'race/racism/racist' is involved people automatically get defensive. It's impossible to have these conversations without using these words and I am yet to see any poster call Neville an outright racist but i can find 10s of posts with people defending Neville as a non-racist despite no accusation.
How are things meant to improve if we can't discuss this topic, and use these words without people getting defensive and shutting down.
Nice generalization right there.
My evidence is my life as a coloured person. 90% of the outright racisicm open to my face has come from white working class men.
Fecking hell, so we're now implying people could be racist based on their skin color and where they were brought up..
Shit show of a thread.
Youre trying to misrepresent what he said. Nice try. He didnt mention skin colour, you did. This discussion is really very nuanced. You cant reduce to basics.
It's just from my experience as a coloured person. Hey you might have your own experiences.
Yet he's frequently lambasted for not tearing a new one on Lingard and Rashford and often defending them. That theory falls flat right there.
Check again in the post above.
Yet Neville can be reduced to basics of where he's from? I'm not misrepresenting anything. By implying he has racist tendencies towards black people you're implying he's not black and we can see that he's white so the logic is that's part of why a man is being labelled racist for daring to criticise a footballer.
Have you read any of the threads on Pogba on Redcafe? Because Neville has only repeated what many many many others are also saying.
Pogba is not committed to Manchester United, evidenced by his several attempts to force a transfer. Pogba's inconsistent performances last season were also a major factor as to why we struggled at end of the season.
So which parts of this criticism from Neville emboldens and enables racists?
Herein lies the issues. I said you should stop talking for Neville as if you know these things as fact and now I'm being asked to 'back up' claims I haven't made.
I've actually stated in this thread that I doubt he is racist but I'm being asked to defend something I don't believe in and haven't stated.
My point is discounting race as a potential reason is just as bad as saying it is the only reason, which no one has done but multiple people are being asked to defend.
BTW, your link didn't work for me.
GAME.SET.MATCH.
If Neville is subconsciously racist (and that might be cause of his upbringing) how come he didn't criticize Rashford for instance?
The Gary N opinions that he's inciting racial comments about Pogs is ridiculous. People are capable of forming their own opinion independently of Gary views which were purely about football anyway with no racially references. Those people making those comments, those views are entrenched anyway. There are people on the forum who harbour such views and their opinions of him as a footballer is based on that. Like lots of fans, their true colours are always exposed when we have lost....
Read what I've put there please because this is where naunce comes in.
"I don't know if neville is racist from what I know of him he isn't"
"but I wouldn't be surprised if he had some subconscious bias towards pogba which might be why he doesn't understand him"
He can relate to rashford and Jessie maybe because of their upbringing as they come from similar places and similar backgrounds. But he might not be able to relate to pogba because he comes from a different background
speaking only for myself, I jumped in when mancan92 implied that Neville was complicit in the racist actions of some cretin in a bar. Nothing defensive about it. I think the sort of shit Sterling has faced from certain parts of the media is disgusting and I cited Merson’s implying that Lukaku was unintelligent as a legitimate complaint of racism. However, I’m not convinced that Neville bears any culpability for this round of racist filth on social media.
Question. Is race only skin deep?
I get exactly what you're getting at here though, I personally think Neville's opinions on Pogba run a little deeper than how dark a shade of brown/black he is.
Similar and Lingard come from similar backgrounds, white working men ones?
Read post above.
You stated categorically that Neville 'comes from a background who for sure wouldn't be scared to let some of their bias cloud their judgement on players.'
That is a definitive and factual statement. I'd like the evidence on which you are basing this statement. Not some whataboutism from a part of your own life experience, horrid as it may be.
If anything he has a pro British bias. But accusing him of being racist even subconsciously and of inciting those horrible comments is waaay ott.
I did.
The thing is Neville often defended Rashford, Lingard and plethora of other black players. He has sided every time when racism is called upon as an issue and there is zero evidence so far of him being a racist - subconscious or whatever.
It's always innocent until proven guilty. You can't open a case for every person like that based on absolutely nothing. For whatever other things you can put on Neville over the years racism has never been one and it's really mind boggling to even suggest him being one, just because we can't "prove" it as an absolute.
Yes, I do believe we can discount race in this particular occasion, based on Neville never ever coming under suspicion of that clouding his judgement.
Jeez naunce is really lost on people.
Gary would likely be able to relate to rash and Jessie as they had grown up in Manchester and spent their whole lives playing for Manchester united. He might not relate to pogba as much as he is foreign and is from a different background.
Very simple. But naunce so I guess you'll get lost again.
No I didn't categorically say anything. I said maybe or I wouldn't be surprised. There's nothing definitive in my sentences.
This. Happens far too often on this forum.
People go back and forth debating waiting for a sentence they can pounce on and then continuing to stall the argument because of a rushed post/response. @mancan92 has made some good points in here tonight that people have ignored yet the second he makes a questionable statement out come the wolves.
That sentence was poor constructed but if you read it and attempt to give it some thought you can see what he was aiming for, he's also attempted to explain - he's not going to be able to provide the facts your after so move on.
You started by mentioning white working class men and how he’s from a background that wouldnt be scared to show their bias. There was no nuance there. Youve now introduced that after making totally broad and unfounded sweeping statements.
What doesn't he understand about Pogba as a football player that he's paid to talk about and analyse?
Of course Gary's from a background that wouldn't be scared to show their bias: the old boys network of British professional football & punditry...
Yeah I’m sorry I came back in here.
He started with no nuance. He was making broad unfounded statements.
Different background as in? Being Muslim or French? Pogba joined the youth team as a teenager. His upbringing wasn't much different to the class Rashford and Lingard came from.
Pogba being a foreigner is a bit weak, if that was the case he might have issue with someone like Evra for example, however that's not the case.
It's obvious that Neville doesn't like him, but to me it has absolutely nothing to do with race. That narrative is absolutely wrong.
It's easy to get lost in your posts cause you just go broader and broader.