Paul Pogba racially abused on social media

[jem]

You have an example yesterday where many people here clearly felt his criticism went over board. He was talking as if pogba had committed treason. But if to you all he said was that pogba is selfish then that's just you. But many people picked up on it instantly and clearly don't think it's normal or fair criticism.

Again you keep speaking in vague terms, which would be fine if you weren't accusing someone of something very serious. Going overboard (a very subjective term for one thing); stoking racial tensions is something else entirely.

- sorry for the flurry of edits. My typing is problematic for some reason.

 

[Sultan]

It was posted on his social media account was it not? If so, then he ultimately bears responsibility for what was posted.

I don't quite remember the exact details but it was proved it was a pre-approved tweet by Adida's marketing team before Jose was even sacked. It was deleted by Pogba's team immediately it became clear it was causing unfair controversy towards Pogba.

 

[Cockney Phil]

Fair enough.

I for one will disagree with you.
He was a great player for United and England.

To be fair Nev had good periods and perhaps a great period but he sloped off at the end and that time is often remembered more than his better times. I never felt he was naturally talented, he always seemed to have to work hard at his job. He had guts and courage, in spades, which sometimes compensated for his weaknesses.

As a pundit, I think he’s a waste of space. His rant against Pogba was unnecessary regardless of the penalty incident. His bias is not really helpful especially when it makes the Scouse look human.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Mind boggling isn't it?

A thread about Pogba being racially abused turned to shit on Neville and his stature as United player, despite winning everything with the club and receiving multiple accolades during his career.

85 matches for England as well.

But let's shit on him because he has nothing to do with those social media stuff..

It’s pathetic. Racist idiots on twitter being racist because Neville critisced a player. I couldn’t believe what I was reading.

It’s just seems the in thing to hate all ex players (especially co92).

 

[jem]

I don't quite remember the exact details but it was proved it was a pre-approved tweet by Adida's marketing team before Jose was even sacked. It was deleted by Pogba's team immediately it became clear it was causing unfair controversy towards Pogba.

Maybe - but I think everyone, in all walks of life, is responsible for the posts put out on their social media. With that in mind, I think Neville had every right to take offence to that post. I certainly don't he needed to apologize to Pogba afterwards.

 

[Red Dreams]

To be fair Nev had good periods and perhaps a great period but he sloped off at the end and that time is often remembered more than his better times. I never felt he was naturally talented, he always seemed to have to work hard at his job. He had guts and courage, in spades, which sometimes compensated for his weaknesses.

As a pundit, I think he’s a waste of space. His rant against Pogba was unnecessary regardless of the penalty incident. His bias is not really helpful especially when it makes the Scouse look human.

Think his anger at Pogba goes back to him being a dressing room voice against Mourinho.

 

[Enigma_87]

It’s pathetic. Racist idiots on twitter being racist because Neville critisced a player. I couldn’t believe what I was reading.

It’s just seems the in thing to hate all ex players (especially co92).

And Keane.

Some of the criticism Neville has towards Pogba might be wrong, but he has no place in this thread.

Regardless of his comments last night there will always be idiots calling Pogba stuff.

 

[sammsky1]

I'm really tired but this doesn't sound right to me. You don't believe he's racist. But? That's just unnecessary to write.

You're normally a really good poster, Adnan.

He's losing objectivity because his darling Pogba is involved.

 

[mancan92]

Again you keep speaking in vague terms, which would be fine if you weren't accusing someone of something very serious. Going overboard (a very subjective term for one thing); stoking racial tensions is something else entirely.

- sorry for the flurry of edits. My typing is problematic for some reason.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. Many people clearly have a problem with how Neville has spoken about pogba and it is clear its too strong even to the point his Co analyst have to calm him down. If you can't see that then we aren't going to understand each other.

I mean even talking about the addidas thing without even any knowledge or waiting to find out what happened he went on a 10 minute rant about pogba and how he has no respect and he is the reason mourinho got fired and he caused a riot in the dressing room etc. Then when he found out the picture wasn't even posted by pogba instead of owning up he just outright called addidas and pogba liars. If that isn't overboard then as I said not much left to discuss.

 

[roseguy64]

Well it obviously depends on the environment, but reading the replies to most of the posts that concern our club, the toxicity is disgusting and mostly comes from fake or some sort of player fan accounts, who are mostly made exactly by children.

They try so hard to slate players they don't like and push forward their favourite ones, it becomes unbearable to read any sort of online discussion because it's literally so childish in nature.

Yeah I rarely venture into the comments. Waste of my time.

 

[Cockney Phil]

Think his anger at Pogba goes back to him being a dressing room voice against Mourinho.

Yea, maybe and perhaps he’s annoyed about Pogba’s attitude but his tone was wrong. I now understand the club complained about the comments. However, there was no hint in Nev’s criticism that race was an issue.

 

[Enigma_87]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. Many people clearly have a problem with how Neville has spoken about pogba and it is clear its too strong even to the point his Co analyst have to calm him down. If you can't see that then we aren't going to understand each other.

I mean even talking about the addidas thing without even any knowledge or waiting to find out what happened he went on a 10 minute rant about pogba and how he has no respect and he is the reason mourinho got fired and he caused a riot in the dressing room etc. Then when he found out the picture wasn't even posted by pogba instead of owning up he just outright called addidas and pogba liars. If that isn't overboard then as I said not much left to discuss.

It's clear that Neville doesn't like him and has bias for some reason or other. That however has no place or relation in this thread.

Criticizing him, calling him unprofessional or whatnot the other day, does not compute with racial abuse towards him by a bunch of idiots.

Obviously Neville, himself, cares about the club and whilst his opinion on Pogba might not be right or accurate, shitting on him for no reason doesn't really make sense either.

 

[Red Dreams]

Yea, maybe and perhaps he’s annoyed about Pogba’s attitude but his tone was wrong. I now understand the club complained about the comments. However, there was no hint in Nev’s criticism that race was an issue.

The racism issue is ridiculous.

If a player is not white...this accusation rears its head.

 

[jem]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. Many people clearly have a problem with how Neville has spoken about pogba and it is clear its too strong even to the point his Co analyst have to calm him down. If you can't see that then we aren't going to understand each other.

I mean even talking about the addidas thing without even any knowledge or waiting to find out what happened he went on a 10 minute rant about pogba and how he has no respect and he is the reason mourinho got fired and he caused a riot in the dressing room etc. Then when he found out the picture wasn't even posted by pogba instead of owning up he just outright called addidas and pogba liars. If that isn't overboard then as I said not much left to discuss.

I guess we will have to because you have provided zero tangible evidence for Neville's being complicit in the racial abuse of Pogba, other than some random idiot in a bar using Neville's comments to justify the idiot's own racist views (which is a bit like blaming George Harrison for writing Piggies because Charles Manson felt it was a call to murderous action.)

 

[Zlatan 7]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. Many people clearly have a problem with how Neville has spoken about pogba and it is clear its too strong even to the point his Co analyst have to calm him down. If you can't see that then we aren't going to understand each other.

I mean even talking about the addidas thing without even any knowledge or waiting to find out what happened he went on a 10 minute rant about pogba and how he has no respect and he is the reason mourinho got fired and he caused a riot in the dressing room etc. Then when he found out the picture wasn't even posted by pogba instead of owning up he just outright called addidas and pogba liars. If that isn't overboard then as I said not much left to discuss.

And that makes or turns people into racists? Ok.

 

[sammsky1]

Because you have deep issues with Pogba doesn't make what Neville said last night correct.

Last week we had Rashford win the pen and decide to take the pen and the conversation was had with our designated penalty taker. Had he missed the pen we all know that the narrative would not be the same. That Neville would not have gotten personal about the player. Pogba is the only player Neville would take this line with and that's frankly unjust.

If you can't see how putting so much personal focus on one players character constantly might inflame tensions and create agendas then you're simply saying the media have no influence on public opinion.

You have an opinion on the man and not the player, this is where I think fans go wrong. My opinions on strangers (footballers) are based on all it can be, ability and performance. From what I do hear Pogba is the nicest guy around carrington but hey Neville doesn't like him, you don't like him so I guess it's fine for Neville to create a toxic atmosphere once more for the player to cope with, for the club to manage. Because you don't like the individual

Try changing the individual and keep all other factors the same. Do you honestly think you'd feel the same about what Neville has created?

Thanks for detailed opinion.

My issues with Pogba are purely as a player at Manchester United, not sure which comments you thought were about him as a man.

Pogba generates huge focus upon himself through his self managed public social media, sponsorships and endorsement advertising. Beyond playing at Old Trafford, he is putting stimulus into the public sphere which is designed to generate a response ('caption this'?! etc). He has every right to have blue hair and all the other stuff, but when he puts it on participative social media platforms, people will respond to it, not always to his or your liking. Don't want a response, don't put it on social media.

Given he was our record signing, supposed best player, and the most high profile marketed footballer right now, I'm not sure what else to expect except a massive personal focus on him. And Pogba's pre season nonsense and missed penalty means it will be criticism.

It's sad that part of the response he generates is racist abuse. Its not on. And I've suggested ways that might be tackled on previous pages. But Neville's criticism of him has nothing to do with racists who abuse Pogba.

 

[Red Dreams]

I guess we will have to because you have provided zero tangible evidence for Neville's being complicit in the racial abuse of Pogba, other than some random idiot in a bar using Neville's comments to justify the idiot's own racist views (which is a bit like blaming George Harrison for writing Piggies because Charles Manson felt it was a call to murderous action.)

Thought it was Paul's Helter Skelter...

 

[Zlatattack]

I think fans should tweet players messages of support at times like this.

 

[jem]

Thought it was Paul's Helter Skelter...

Several songs on the White Album, I believe. Helter Skelter was the name he gave to the impending race war, and Piggies is what a number of his family members wrote on the walls (in blood) of their victims' houses. If you ever get the chance, read the book Helter Skelter. Absolutely chilling.

 

[mancan92]

I guess we will have to because you have provided zero tangible evidence for Neville's being complicit in the racial abuse of Pogba, other than some random idiot in a bar using Neville's comments to justify the idiot's own racist views (which is a bit like blaming George Harrison for writing Piggies because Charles Manson felt it was a call to murderous action.)

See you didn't read or understand anything I said. Instead your ignored my points and taken the exact point I wasn't making but hey its up to you.

 

[Adnan]

I'm really tired but this doesn't sound right to me. You don't believe he's racist. But? That's just unnecessary to write.

You're normally a really good poster, Adnan.

My criticism towards Neville in the past has been due to him being overly impartial regarding United like he feels he has to prove to the audience that he isn't biased towards his former club. He also blindly defended his brother and Moyes but didn't afford Van Gaal the same courtesy in the past IMO. Certain players he just won't criticise but with others he can't wait to launch his diatribe. I actually feel Carragher makes more sense analysing United than Neville and I never even imagined I would ever feel that say.

I do think his verbal tirade towards Pogba was completely unnecessary. He missed a penalty in the second game of the season which isn't a crime but Neville's verbal tirade riled alot of people up which was totally unnecessary IMO. Ole has got us tactically setup brilliantly and has brought a feel good factor back into the camp. So for Neville to spew such vitriol towards our best player at a time when things are looking good 'for missing a penalty' was totally unnecessary IMO.

I also like you awell Catt..

 

[Halal Jalal]

Abhorrent thread.

Expectations: United fans uniting to defend our only world class player, taking a firm stand and perhaps plan an action against the abusers

Reality: Embarrassing display of low education and intellect, thinly veiled bigotry, some posters even making up excuses for the old white man Neville

I know this means nothing from a New Member like myself, but I'm forced to take a break from Caf for a while now. And when (if) I come back, the lesson learnt is to stay away from any topic even remotely related to race or religion. Let me also say, I'm disappointed by the manner of moderation in this particular case. Later, Caf.

 

[Red Dreams]

Several songs on the White Album, I believe. Helter Skelter was the name he gave to the impending race war, and Piggies is what a number of his family members wrote on the walls (in blood) of their victims' houses. If you ever get the chance, read the book Helter Skelter. Absolutely chilling.

kin hate these serial killer/insane nuts stories.

Anyways..I see enough evil in what our politicians do.

 

[R'hllor]

Think its pointless to enter the discussion about influence of Neville`s what ever that was last night, when it comes to racial abuse. What i dont understand is this push to hide that whole segment on MNF behind "criticism", when there are parts of it which are so far away from it. The terminology used based on feck all, vibe of that whole thing was just mental. Not to mention bias against him compared how he is soft when it comes some other players.

 

[mancan92]

And that makes or turns people into racists? Ok.

Again read what I wrote instead of spurting nonsense

 

[sammsky1]

Yea, maybe and perhaps he’s annoyed about Pogba’s attitude but his tone was wrong. I now understand the club complained about the comments. However, there was no hint in Nev’s criticism that race was an issue.

source?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

old white man Neville
.

Well I think that’s a lazy racist stereotype to throw around also.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Abhorrent thread.

Expectations: United fans uniting to defend our only world class player, taking a firm stand and perhaps plan an action against the abusers

Reality: Embarrassing display of low education and intellect, thinly veiled bigotry, some posters even making up excuses for the old white man Neville

I know this means nothing from a New Member like myself, but I'm forced to take a break from Caf for a while now. And when (if) I come back, the lesson learnt is to stay away from any topic even remotely related to race or religion. Let me also say, I'm disappointed by the manner of moderation in this particular case. Later, Caf.

Thought you were onto something, but alas. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Again read what I wrote instead of spurting nonsense

It was hard enough reading it the first time. Seems like I’m not the only one who read it ‘wrong’.

The jist of it, what I could tell anyway was that Neville has been overly harsh on Pogba (I agree) and that encited people to be racist on twitter.

I disagree. People will be racist whether Neville said anything or not, he may make people angry but the words that come out of their mouth and the terms they use are their own

 

[sammsky1]

Abhorrent thread.

Expectations: United fans uniting to defend our only world class player, taking a firm stand and perhaps plan an action against the abusers

Reality: Embarrassing display of low education and intellect, thinly veiled bigotry, some posters even making up excuses for the old white man Neville

I know this means nothing from a New Member like myself, but I'm forced to take a break from Caf for a while now. And when (if) I come back, the lesson learnt is to stay away from any topic even remotely related to race or religion. Let me also say, I'm disappointed by the manner of moderation in this particular case. Later, Caf.

Racism is abhorrent, except when you indulge in it yourself. amirite?

BTW: Mod's do an amazing job of moderating this entire forum, ensuring decorum even on the most sensitive subjects.

 

[redshaw]

Abhorrent thread.

Expectations: United fans uniting to defend our only world class player, taking a firm stand and perhaps plan an action against the abusers

Reality: Embarrassing display of low education and intellect, thinly veiled bigotry, some posters even making up excuses for the old white man Neville

I know this means nothing from a New Member like myself, but I'm forced to take a break from Caf for a while now. And when (if) I come back, the lesson learnt is to stay away from any topic even remotely related to race or religion. Let me also say, I'm disappointed by the manner of moderation in this particular case. Later, Caf.

You're no better.

You should take a break and reflect on your own racism.

 

[jem]

See you didn't read or understand anything I said. Instead your ignored my points and taken the exact point I wasn't making but hey its up to you.

Because you said very little of substance, particularly when it came to providing tangible evidence of Neville’s language in any way being racially incendiary. Instead you’ve continually resorted to tired old lines like “if you can’t see that, then I have nothing more to say to you.”

 

[mancan92]

It was hard enough reading it the first time. Seems like I’m not the only one who read it ‘wrong’.

The jist of it, what I could tell anyway was that Neville has been overly harsh on Pogba (I agree) and that encited people to be racist on twitter.

I disagree. People will be racist whether Neville said anything or not, he may make people angry but the words that come out of their mouth and the terms they use are their own

I'm going to make this very simple.

Someone ie Gary Neville who is white in a white dominated society who currently knows that there is a more openly racist society due to the rise of nationalism has a responsibility to make sure that what he says cannot be used to build hate(whatever that form takes).

So if said person in powerful position many times spouts aggressive and hateful language to a black player they are complicit if said player gets abused by that pundits audience even if he didn't mean it to be racist.

Doesn't mean he made racists. It means that some people in his audience are probably racist so if he goes overboard with his hatred towards a black player it is likely that his going overboard will promote someone from his audience who happens to be racist to spurt abuse just as neville did.

Understanding your audience is part of neville's job.

 

[Basement IPA]

Abhorrent thread.

Expectations: United fans uniting to defend our only world class player, taking a firm stand and perhaps plan an action against the abusers

Reality: Embarrassing display of low education and intellect, thinly veiled bigotry, some posters even making up excuses for the old white man Neville

I know this means nothing from a New Member like myself, but I'm forced to take a break from Caf for a while now. And when (if) I come back, the lesson learnt is to stay away from any topic even remotely related to race or religion. Let me also say, I'm disappointed by the manner of moderation in this particular case. Later, Caf.

Hey, "Halal"

Looks like you got some personal issues you've got to work on, including your hate for middle-aged white people (or white people in general).

 

[Ban]

Disgusting. Internet as much as it can be a great place in the same time can be a truly horrible one.
Sadly I'm sure those comments would have happened even without completely ott Nevilles comments so let's not blame him for it. But as I see it has already happened..

 

[Halal Jalal]

I'm going to make this very simple.

Someone ie Gary Neville who is white in a white dominated society who currently knows that there is a more openly racist society due to the rise of nationalism has a responsibility to make sure that what he says cannot be used to build hate(whatever that form takes).

So if said person in powerful position many times spouts aggressive and hateful language to a black player they are complicit if said player gets abused by that pundits audience even if he didn't mean it to be racist.

Doesn't mean he made racists. It means that some people in his audience are probably racist so if he goes overboard with his hatred towards a black player it is likely that his going overboard will promote someone from his audience who happens to be racist to spurt abuse just as neville did.

Understanding your audience is part of neville's job.

Thank you for being intelligent and reasonable, one of the few ITT

 

[mancan92]

Because you said very little of substance, particularly when it came to providing tangible evidence of Neville’s language in any way being racially incendiary. Instead you’ve continually resorted to tired old lines like “if you can’t see that, then I have nothing more to say to you.”

Nope I explained it very clearly but you chose to ignore it.

I'll break it down even simpler for you.

Hatred breeds hatred

If your audience is millions then you know for sure your going to have quite a few racists. It would make sense to not go overboard continually with your abuse to certain black players as you know that might empower some of your audience to do the same as some of them will be racists.

 

[Basement IPA]

Incredible the amount of people who are suggesting you pretty much cannot criticize a player if they fall into a "minority" category. Fantastic times we're living in.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Thank you for being intelligent and reasonable, one of the few ITT

Are you going to take back your offensive comment?

 

[Ban]

Nope I explained it very clearly but you chose to ignore it.

I'll break it down even simpler for you.

Hatred breeds hatred

If your audience is millions then you know for sure your going to have quite a few racists. It would make sense to not go overboard continually with your abuse to certain black players as you know that might empower some of your audience to do the same as some of them will be racists.

So you think Neville actually hates Pogba?
You should check the word abuse too.