Exactly but in their opinion they would they that they were doing their job just like any other player after all look at how much abuse beckham got. But as you mentioned they took it too far. The same way Neville has taken his criticism too far.
Paul Pogba racially abused on social media
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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Exactly but in their opinion they would they that they were doing their job just like any other player after all look at how much abuse beckham got. But as you mentioned they took it too far. The same way Neville has taken his criticism too far.
Probably. Although he doesn't make it easy with some of his off field antics, which can drive a lot of hatred.
The issue is of course very broad and the inability of federations to cope with it for such a long time says a lot. Advertising campaigns has proven to be useless.
Unfortunately, whilst you can take actions on the stadium, I just can't see it coping with it on social media where it would be very hard to punish the culprits. Especially when they hide behind fake profiles.
The fact that this has been explained repeatedly in this thread yet people still continue claiming that this is what's being said says it all really.
Impossible to have a productive discussion with people who choose to bury their heads in the sand and disingenuously try shifting the conversation in another direction and running with it to disregard and ignore the original point being made.
Fair play to you for all the patience you've been exhibiting in still hearing out all the people misrepresenting your words constantly
Like already said, only those who are part of those oppressed groups fully understand the complexities of it. Amazing how the very perpetrators of feeding the abuse Sterling received somehow pacified it by holding him up as a role model for challenging them for doing it?
Alright were going to have to agree to disagree.
I never said critics caused or created the issue, I never called him a racist. But hey it seems you will not read my sentences. I can't force you so hey.
The fact that this has been explained repeatedly in this thread yet people still continue claiming that others are saying that say's it all really.
Impossible to have a productive discussion with people who choose to bury their heads in the sand and disingenuously try shifting the conversation in another direction to disregard and ignore the original point being made.
Fair play to you for all the patience you've been exhibiting in still hearing out all the people misrepresenting your words constantly
Exactly what we where missing. The lord of all truth and knowledge. That arrives, calls everyone stupid that doesnt agree with him and minimizes all the other opinions. clap clap clap. Talking with you it's like playing chess with a pidgeon. you will arrive, shit on the board and leave flying making noises like you won the match.
It would be different because no one would report it to nearly the same degree or mock him, if he was white. The people calling Neville or others enabling racism would be saying the exact opposite.
The fact that you posted this shows the level of ignorance.
If this is where your level of thinking is at then all I can tell you do is read a book or read up on what systemic racism is.
Actually in the case of The Daily Mail and The Sun, I’m sure they knew exactly what they were doing.
You literally said Neville and pundits created the atmosphere, quit lying.
.....and there's my point. Why should what he does 'off field' fuel racial hatred?
And I still don’t see how Neville has taken his criticism too far.
Can i say this is racism since some British people think Portuguese are stupid and uncultured? Is that sistemic racism based on the history of our 2 countries? CHECK
And they doubled down when they realised the attention it caused.
Reading compression isnt really your forte is it? Some posters on here, like yourself keep trying to conflate. For the umpteenth time, its not about merely criticising (everyone should be criticized). Its strictly about the overt nature of it all. The personalizing of it all. Raheem Sterling wasnt just criticised, it became personal. Paul Pogba wasnt just criticised, it became personal. Is this really hard to grasp? You hate simplicities, yet your way of thinking is just that.
One person complained he went on for too long, what a joke. It's his job to fill air time...
Didnt you say hatred breeds hatred and Neville might hate Pogba and might be racist cause of his background.
Thing is, mate, Neville would definitely take it personally when it comes to disruptive influence in the dressing room. And if he truly believes that Pogba is one - he can go overboard in his criticism.
Again that opinion doesn't make it a fact and he could be wrong on Pogba, but him getting overboard is much more probable to have something to do with Pogba's actions on and off the pitch and how he influences the dressing room, rather than race, color or upbringing.
Pogba has been controversial figure under Jose and has made it no secret that he wants away. Accumulated with some poor performances he's rightfully at a spot he would get plenty of criticism, especially from past players that obviously care about the club.
That of course doesn't make Neville, or whoever else criticizes him on football related basis, held accountable for every other mentalist that decides to vent his racist slurs out and call out his name..
I’m sorry for what’s happened to you.
Can you tell me if a working class black man does something wrong to me, what should I think of other black men from working class backgrounds according to you?
No I said that they are complicit. Read what the word complicit means. It doesn't mean anyone started it or created it. It means they are part of the problem.
He insinuated that he was. It's it works with his type. They are smart enough to not flat out say he is but use flowery language.
Which means they had a hand in creating it. Are you serious?
You might have your own opinion just like I have.
But then after you would probably have to understand what systemic racism is. If you did then you would a different thought process to me.
Do YOU even understand it?
No I said he might have subconscious bias which might affect his ability to relate to pogba which might be why he has a big problem with him outside of just football.
Hatred breeds hatred yes. What has that got to with what I said?
He is an easy target. And as seen in this thread - the line between racial hatred and football related criticism is really slim.
He gets exposure and racists can ride the wave using that exposure. That however doesn't make Neville or any other pundit criticizing his game accomplice in any shape or form.
Well, thanks for clearing that up.
Insinuating that he is racist because he happens to be a white man of working class origin. Are we sure you aren't projecting your bias onto him?
Ignorance does not equal stupity. It just means you talk of an issue you do not quite understand. Again doesn't mean you are stupid. Just that you probably need to gain a bit more knowledge about this specific subject.
The same thing if I was talking about Portuguese culture but I don't really have great understanding.
You never even responded to what he said and just called him ignorant. Do you even have a coherent argument?
No, I keep asking for concrete examples of Neville’s personal attacks (other than calling Pogba selfish or being upset about the Mourinho firing selfie, neither of which is strong enough to equate to racial incitement/complicity, in my opinion.) But hey, feel free to shoehorn the word ‘conflate’ into your response.
No because its an ongoing issue. So it means they are part of the problem that continues to persist.
Again complicit means to be involved in an unfair process. Not to start or create it.
Thats because you just dont get it. Criticism of both crossed into the personal realm. With Raheem, they even resorted to making things up (such as the multiple baby mothers). In both cases, an atmosphere was tormented that enabled people in general to be more free to openly attack the two (some of it racist of course, there is correlation with the two). Personally attacking Pogba (as opposed to just onfield criticisms) emboldens some racists to speak out. This is undeniable.
How is he complicit in systemic racism? How is Pogba even a footballer if there is? You literally know nothing about this and you call others ignorant.
It's difficult taking about Black players and separating the issue of race cause it's always a factor to different degrees. The legacy and footprint of historical racism in football is very much still alive and sometimes it's hard to differentiate what's people's agenda. You might be right about Gary's agenda but only he will know if it's fuelled by having racist views.
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Yeah you probably don't even to ask me that clearly. If you really want I can setup a call and we can have a discussion around Windrush with my grandma who was tricked into coming here 40 years ago and sent back to the carribean with no pension at 75 years old.
Again, for some reason, you assume i dont read and am uncultured just because i dont agree with you. So, what you are saying is, that you are superior in terms of opinion to me because i am ignorant and not someone with a critical way of thinking diferent from yours.
Again, since there are racists in the UK against portuguese i could say that, subcounsciesly, you are racist because of systemic racism. is that correct?[/QUOTE]
If you also need me to answer his question then you probably also need to do some extra reading before we continue a conversation. Again not calling you stupid but if you understand systemic racism to any extent you'll understand why I can't really spend time replying to the oist.
Oh really now? Because you understand I myself am not white, right? And that you are using the term in the wrong way and clearly just spouting what others have told you to say. I don't need this false emotional crap.
So because pogba is a footballer then there can't be systemic racism?................
OK for sure your wumming. So I'll drop our conversation.