My memory is pretty hazy these days but he was getting dropped for Mctominay in the second half of that season wasn’t he? I think it all started Spurs away where Mourinho took him off due to his defensive contribution.
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Even if he wasn't - he said that was Barcelona's value. Just saying
Souness and the Irish pundits are literally the worst on the planet. I'm glad you've decided to mention this as it proves that your opinion on the matter is not worth anyone's time.
Im wondering whether you’re trying to fit a time period to fit a particular narrative
I know but I have to point out pony when I see it. Zero times? How can anyone honestly claim something like that has never happened before?
My take on Pogba, for anyone who is interested.....the most overly scrutinised player I’ve ever seen, barring perhaps Ronaldo when he first arrived.
Overall I’d give his time back 6/10 and say it’s been underwhelming but fantastic in parts however he is for certain one of our best players and has for certain been one of our best players since his return.
He’s actually been more consistently good than most players but his poor performances are all people remember and criticism of him regularly borders on personal rather than performance.
I don’t trust many of our players yet, Bruno and Greenwood perhaps being the limit, the rest all have much to prove Pogba included, however this feels like the start of better times, the past four games have been really worrying for the team as a whole though and so we consider is this another false dawn, but we seem to be going in the right direction so it has to be hoped fatigue has played a major role, no rest between games compared to our opponents.
If we get to a stage where Pogba is the problem we will be some team, and that would be the time to sell. We are years away from getting to that stage and criticism here seems OTT by the same posters over and over. Some like Pogue are nowhere to be seen until we have a bad game then they are straight in at Pogba. In truth it seems to be the same for others like Rashford, Maguire even the Bruno thread the other week was a disaster.
Perhaps the issue is just the nature of Internet forums.
Overall I’d give his time back 6/10 and say it’s been underwhelming but fantastic in parts however he is for certain one of our best players and has for certain been one of our best players since his return.
He’s actually been more consistently good than most players but his poor performances are all people remember and criticism of him regularly borders on personal rather than performance.
I don’t trust many of our players yet, Bruno and Greenwood perhaps being the limit, the rest all have much to prove Pogba included, however this feels like the start of better times, the past four games have been really worrying for the team as a whole though and so we consider is this another false dawn, but we seem to be going in the right direction so it has to be hoped fatigue has played a major role, no rest between games compared to our opponents.
If we get to a stage where Pogba is the problem we will be some team, and that would be the time to sell. We are years away from getting to that stage and criticism here seems OTT by the same posters over and over. Some like Pogue are nowhere to be seen until we have a bad game then they are straight in at Pogba. In truth it seems to be the same for others like Rashford, Maguire even the Bruno thread the other week was a disaster.
Perhaps the issue is just the nature of Internet forums.
Which Irish pundits? There are a hell of a lot of them and they aren't all saying that.
I'd just like to say -
If I was in Pogbas position from that West Ham shot, I know for a fact I would have unintentionally put my hands up to block it.
I've done enough fighting to know that's a natural reaction when something is flying at you with power.
Just look at TFM next to him who did the EXACT same thing.
He was fairly criticised as it was his fault ultimately, I just know most people would do the same, no matter how much they claim he's soft for it.
If I was in Pogbas position from that West Ham shot, I know for a fact I would have unintentionally put my hands up to block it.
I've done enough fighting to know that's a natural reaction when something is flying at you with power.
Just look at TFM next to him who did the EXACT same thing.
He was fairly criticised as it was his fault ultimately, I just know most people would do the same, no matter how much they claim he's soft for it.
No, during the second half of that season he started almost every game. The exceptions are Huddersfield, Sevilla and Watford, McTominay was mainly a fringe player.
He should be shot with a ball of his own shit.
I couldn't find a video. It was the same VAR who didn't give the Lo Celso red for the stamp on Azpilicueta earlier on the same day. They came out and said he was wrong not to give it and then allowed him to be VAR for Man City/Leicester.
He unsurprisingly had a bit of a mare - He didn't give that but then gave City a similar one later on in the game
Exactly, but do you know what generates the uproar the most? Gary Neville.
Listen to the way he reacts, instead of saying "it's handball, can't blame him for protecting himself but thats the law" then people would accept it and brush over it.
Instead he goes on about it being "disgraceful" and "you can't do that, take it on the chin" etc etc...
Yes Gary we all know what the ideal situation is but it doesn't always work like that does it? He's an awful commentator when it comes to United.
There's so much hate here. All for one man.
This is the equivalent of people giving Solskjaer hate, but in that case it's then called out on.
You can criticize, but can we not digress to pure insults? It's uncouth and purely unethical to give one person this much hate.
He's our player for another season. Already writing him off is a waste of time, because he's here to stay and we should support him to pull out his very best.
The fact is, whether you want to admit it or not, when Pogba is at his best, he is single handedly unstoppable. He was largely responsible for the massive streak we had when Solskjaer first showed and so we know he can do it. He is back from injury so nobody should be expecting those kinds of performances again.
Also, people are making excuses saying that Matic holds on to the ball with a lack of passing options, I would say the same is true of Pogba in recent games. He's crowded out and often so far back that he cannot influence the game. Why a midfielder is dropping so far back that he's alongside Lindelof and Maguire is beyond me. His best games have come when he's just outside the final third and able to play in and around that area not at the halfway line ffs, with his back turned the opposite way.
I refuse to believe that the player who was heavily consistent and bombarded midfields is not the same player that is at United. Whether people claim he had more classy players around him, he did a lot at Juve by himself, and was able to stand out amongst the crowd.
I especially remember the match where he dominated against Madrid and they won 3-1, in which he was largely responsible, both offensively and defensively.
That player still exists, and I think we've got another year to get that out of him.
Writing off a player now seems illogical.
This is the equivalent of people giving Solskjaer hate, but in that case it's then called out on.
You can criticize, but can we not digress to pure insults? It's uncouth and purely unethical to give one person this much hate.
He's our player for another season. Already writing him off is a waste of time, because he's here to stay and we should support him to pull out his very best.
The fact is, whether you want to admit it or not, when Pogba is at his best, he is single handedly unstoppable. He was largely responsible for the massive streak we had when Solskjaer first showed and so we know he can do it. He is back from injury so nobody should be expecting those kinds of performances again.
Also, people are making excuses saying that Matic holds on to the ball with a lack of passing options, I would say the same is true of Pogba in recent games. He's crowded out and often so far back that he cannot influence the game. Why a midfielder is dropping so far back that he's alongside Lindelof and Maguire is beyond me. His best games have come when he's just outside the final third and able to play in and around that area not at the halfway line ffs, with his back turned the opposite way.
I refuse to believe that the player who was heavily consistent and bombarded midfields is not the same player that is at United. Whether people claim he had more classy players around him, he did a lot at Juve by himself, and was able to stand out amongst the crowd.
I especially remember the match where he dominated against Madrid and they won 3-1, in which he was largely responsible, both offensively and defensively.
That player still exists, and I think we've got another year to get that out of him.
Writing off a player now seems illogical.
I agree. I can't listen to him anymore after that West Ham game, it might honestly have been some of the worst commentary I've heard.
He was talking as if we were getting dominated, right after the stat popped up that we had 80+ % possession and 6-1 shots or something similar.
He claimed we struggled when the opposition improved(Chelsea), ignoring the fact that we've been the best team against the top 6 other than Lpool, if I'm not mistaken. Breaking records in the process.
Certainly won't be listening to him again. He sounds like a bitter ex, bizarrely. Prefer Evra much more now.
He throws our players under the bus in commentary. Provides perfect ammo for negative(& aggressive) media and social media coverage.
Gary has had this agenda against Pogba like all other pundits for some reason. Like Evra said, alot of criticism for Pogba and none for Rashford.
Pogba hasn't even conducted himself all that badly since January, no idea why so this agenda against him keeps coming back.
The funny thing is, KDB did the same and the ball wasnt coming at him straight, neither was that given a penalty.
Just wondering if you are a fighter then I guess your instincts would be to raise your hands in self defence but as a professional outfield player is not your first instinct to duck? I just think he was caught out not fully concentrating and being ready to defend the free kick.
He's getting a lot of hate on here but we need to bear in mind he's tired like everyone else. Maybe more so than others due to the injury he came back from.
The natural instinct of anyone with something flying at their face is generally to block it. Ducking(dodging and weaving) is actually a learned skill and quite a difficult one too. The last instinct in such a short period of time is to put your head on it, for obvious reasons.
I do agree that he wasn't entirely concentrating and saw it late. The fact the no one spotted TFM doing the same thing next to him though is telling in that it was great ammunition for certain pundits(& fans) to put fuel on their agenda.
And if it was Timbo who handled it no one would be talking about it anymore.
Even if he ducked and put his arms to cover his face it would still be a penalty. I doubt anybody would just stand there and take it smack in the face unless they had zero time to see it coming, it's just instinct to protect yourself.
The law is quite frankly stupid that you're expected to take a 60mph shot to the face (that's not even on target) yet still get awarded a penalty against you.
I guarantee you now that if Pogba did drop to the floor to avoid the shot that Neville would be calling him a coward and a disgrace. If it was Rashford though he'd be running down there to kiss him better
This is not true. I've just heard it over a conversation and checked.Even if he ducked and put his arms to cover his face it would still be a penalty. I doubt anybody would just stand there and take it smack in the face unless they had zero time to see it coming, it's just instinct to protect yourself.
The law is quite frankly stupid that you're expected to take a 60mph shot to the face (that's not even on target) yet still get awarded a penalty against you.
I guarantee you now that if Pogba did drop to the floor to avoid the shot that Neville would be calling him a coward and a disgrace. If it was Rashford though he'd be running down there to kiss him better
https://www.goal.com/en/amp/news/ho...ball-rules-explained/baj7pi2kk191qyeu9ay8wlrn
So if you use your hands to cover your face it's no pen. Unfortunately Pogba's hands were higher than his face.
I've seen then given plenty of times before, depends on their interpretation of what's "natural", but yes that was more probably the silly thing of him to do, was stretch his arms up rather than just cover his face and he might have got away with it.
Look at Bailly's pen the other day for instance, wasn't a shot on target but just brushed the top of his shoulder, they'll make it up as they go along.
Indeed. Protecting his face isn't the issue, how he did it was poor
As someone highlighted previously, Kevin De Bruyne did the same thing, and it wasn't a pen.
I also recall David Silva doing the exact same thing recently in his own box, and it's gone completely unnoticed. Instead of turning his back to block the ball, he raises his hands in front of his face. That for me was definitely and blatantly a penalty, because he looked to protect his face before the ball was even kicked. But nobody even remembers the incident and VAR deemed it not a pen.
In my opinion, Pogba's is a stonewall penalty. However, I thought back to David Silva, and that made me think: "Okay, it's not a penalty, because he did it." I didn't even know about the De Bruyne one.
Just seems all very wishy washy these days.
I also recall David Silva doing the exact same thing recently in his own box, and it's gone completely unnoticed. Instead of turning his back to block the ball, he raises his hands in front of his face. That for me was definitely and blatantly a penalty, because he looked to protect his face before the ball was even kicked. But nobody even remembers the incident and VAR deemed it not a pen.
In my opinion, Pogba's is a stonewall penalty. However, I thought back to David Silva, and that made me think: "Okay, it's not a penalty, because he did it." I didn't even know about the De Bruyne one.
Just seems all very wishy washy these days.
Isn't that what Pogba did? His hands didn't go above the height of where his head is at naturally. It's just that Pogba's body went down at the same time making it look like he did. It's completely obvious he simultaneously did both at once. If that's the rule, the refs need to do a better job next time.
So basically, if Pogba had his arms placed at the same height as in the pen incident, but didn't move his body down, it wouldn't be a pen? Unbelievable.
No his hands were above his head.
No, look at the definition of "silhouette" mate.
No his hands were above his head.
No, look at the definition of "silhouette" mate.
Seems like a grey area.
He made his silhouette smaller by ducking but replaced that with his hands, certainly in relation to where the ball was headed. His hands aren't any higher than where his head was before he ducked.
No look at the definition of silhouette mate. Dear Lord you are all English right ?
Yes, Paul, they are taking the piss out of you for being a complete wimp.
You're a big hard man are you with your Internet connection and "top banter" wiv' ya maytes?
One of our most talented players no question.
Still not convinced on this world class tag though. Cost us pts in 2 home games recently with stupid mistakes and hasn't put in a single world class performance before injury this season or since lockdown.
I actually think we'd all be better off, and Pogba would too, if people just treated him as a talented midfielder rather than a world class one because he's simply not.
Still not convinced on this world class tag though. Cost us pts in 2 home games recently with stupid mistakes and hasn't put in a single world class performance before injury this season or since lockdown.
I actually think we'd all be better off, and Pogba would too, if people just treated him as a talented midfielder rather than a world class one because he's simply not.
I’m sorry...is looking at Pogba’s last 2.5 years at the club being somehow unfair to him? It’s a pretty long time period where he’s consistently not performed but for one brief period when Ole took over. My point is simply that it isn’t an agenda to think he’s massively underwhelmed and personally I think anyone who still uses the term “world class” to describe him as a player is in cuckoo land. His performances for us certainly haven’t been “world class”. And that’s what he should be judged on, performances in a consistent basis not his actual possible ability and the odd worldy here and there. Add in all the other drama with him and the fact he has played and acted like he doesn’t want to be here for large parts of the last two seasons then I don’t really know how criticism against him isn’t objectively justified. When I think back to performances such as Newcastle away in Jose’s second season it’s hard not to get annoyed with him. I’ve never thought a player was actively not giving their all until that day. Personally I find that sort of stuff hard to accept. However, if he starts playing like he did against Brighton regularly then brilliant. And he signs a new contract and says he’s staying here for the next 4 years even better. I don’t think either of those things will happen but like I’ve said I want to be wrong on that.
That was in response to him putting in many stellar performances during the second half of that season, I don’t remember him doing so. The fact he was dropped for a fringe Mctominay in the biggest game of the season against Sevilla kinda proves my point.
Anyway, during the second part of the season you have in the league his games against Chelsea, City and Arsenal against big teams and few others against smaller teams.
Pogba fc back with a vengeance. Pathetic.
You guys are the only ones who seem to keep trumpeting £90m and world class constantly whenever he makes a mistake.
The guy is a very talented playmaker but clearly has deficiences just like any player does. I'm sure every fan group can find an issue with their own players if you look hard enough.
The fact is though he wasn't the only one underperforming against West Ham, so we don't need to keep beating the "get rid of Pogba" drum.
What does this even mean?
It's mainly been his detractors discussing and analyzing every possible angle of a handball ad nauseum for 10+ pages
This thread moves exponentially faster when anytime he makes a mistake or doesn't drop a 7-8/10 and that's not due to whatever the hell 'Pogba FC' is...
How very dare...
This. 100% agree. Although i think the inflated price tag works against him.
Pogba's handball was a bit crazy, not what we want from a player at United, but it was not the reason we drew with West Ham. The team is clearly fatigued by the schedule and the squad clearly still struggles under pressure.
We need our bench players to be able to change games and have strong impacts, it's one of our biggest weaknesses right now.
We need our bench players to be able to change games and have strong impacts, it's one of our biggest weaknesses right now.
Are you not paying attention to his lower half? It's clearly bent. Where do you think his head would be in relation to the ball had his lower half not been bent? That's our point. If he stood up straight, his hands would be up to his face just like De Bruyne's situation.No his hands were above his head.
No, look at the definition of "silhouette" mate.
What you're saying is that Pogba would have never been hit in the face if he stood still. That his hands blocked the ball for no reason, thus extending the natural area his body blocks in relation to the strike. An equivalent situation would be if a player sticks his hand out horizontally, thus an unnatural amount of area is covered. That is not what Pogba did. If you were to draw a box from his toe to his head, I don't think his hands would extend that boxed area.
Tbh, having said that, this is all in the context of an instantaneous moment. So if somebody were on the ground and just stuck their hand up to block something, then they would give up a pen. I don't really have a problem with Pogba being given a pen. I just think that the rule is stupid if there is a difference between De Bruyne's situation and Pogba's.
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The price tag definitely works against him, as do all the endorsements (with the billboards and his face plastered everywhere) and the hype (wherever it's from).
If it was a McTominay putting in his performances, the discussion would be a lot more positive I'm certain.
Basically, I think all the talk of him being 'world class' is just nonsense. Plus we spent a massive (world record) fee on someone who was never near worth it. He's a good player (very good on his day) but he's masquerading as a 'superstar'.
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