[Hugh Jass]

The price tag definitely works against him, as do all the endorsements (with the billboards and his face plastered everywhere) and the hype (wherever it's from).

If it was a McTominay putting in his performances, the discussion would be a lot more positive I'm certain.

Basically, I think all the talk of him being 'world class' is just nonsense. Plus we spent a massive (world record) fee on someone who was never near worth it. He's a good player (very good on his day) but he's masquerading as a 'superstar'.

Agreed. We paid double what he is actually worth.

I would say Paul himself cannot believe the hype he gets.

I once read a poster on this forum a while back say that it would be interesting his career trajectory if he had never came to United as a youngster. Would be have played for Juve and signed for us for 90 million?

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Tbf I think the hype has started to finally die down. Madrid, Juve n PSG clearly don't feel he's worth what we want either. And he probably isn't.

He's got bags of talent but too many flaws to be a world class player. When he has 2 seasons where he is 7 out of 10 or better 80% of the games then he can be called world class.

Actually think Bruno is the better player. Works harder, scores more goals, makes stuff happen like Pogba can and also seems to be more of a leader too.

 

[Clermontois]

Yes, Paul, they are taking the piss out of you for being a complete wimp.

Proper computer gangster.

One of our most talented players no question.

Still not convinced on this world class tag though. Cost us pts in 2 home games recently with stupid mistakes and hasn't put in a single world class performance before injury this season or since lockdown.

I actually think we'd all be better off, and Pogba would too, if people just treated him as a talented midfielder rather than a world class one because he's simply not.

I hope one day you can find inner peace. It starts with understanding what you think often differs from the truth and that you are powerless to change it. That was free but the next bit of advice will cost you.

Pogba fc back with a vengeance. Pathetic.

What is that and what does it mean?

Funny enough it is only seen in Anthony and Paul's thread, our only two black french players.

Pogba's handball was a bit crazy, not what we want from a player at United, but it was not the reason we drew with West Ham. The team is clearly fatigued by the schedule and the squad clearly still struggles under pressure.

We need our bench players to be able to change games and have strong impacts, it's one of our biggest weaknesses right now.

Tiredness may be a factor but from the looks of it the tactics are more so. As many said the honeymoon period for new players has well and truly gone hence teams now have figured them out. Our tactics basically segment the team with one link in which is constantly surrounded by opposition players and that is Paul. Matic did help more in the last game but West Ham did well to man mark or forward players who went back to not making runs like previous years. Paul in this new role that Ole has shunted him too held his area of the field and gave the ball to the 'creators' since he is has 'support' role as other on here declared with glee and delight. It can't be had both ways. Either the team plays 4:3:3 and allows him to attack and defend as required then people can complain about him playing 'safe'. For right now the buck stops at Ole.

The price tag definitely works against him, as do all the endorsements (with the billboards and his face plastered everywhere) and the hype (wherever it's from).

If it was a McTominay putting in his performances, the discussion would be a lot more positive I'm certain.

Basically, I think all the talk of him being 'world class' is just nonsense. Plus we spent a massive (world record) fee on someone who was never near worth it. He's a good player (very good on his day) but he's masquerading as a 'superstar'.

Think what you like, he is world class and no amount circular semantics will change that. He is the most talented midfielder I have seen pitch up at this club since I started watching the team when Beckham had a buzz. I now get why superstar players have long avoided coming here and it is clear as day to anyone who would look. The best thing for Ronaldinho, Ronaldo and Zlatan(in his prime) was that they avoided coming here. I believe Paul will be out the door before long as well and I will be happy to see him win the individual prizes wherever he goes. I wish he could do it here but I cannot see it happening with fans having absorbed the venom spewed by the media.

Agreed. We paid double what he is actually worth.

I would say Paul himself cannot believe the hype he gets.

I once read a poster on this forum a while back say that it would be interesting his career trajectory if he had never came to United as a youngster. Would be have played for Juve and signed for us for 90 million?

A post devoid of reason and common sense.

We paid what he was worth to us, Juventus and the other clubs who he rejected.

What else does he tell you when you two meet around the back behind the butcher shop..

The last line takes the cake; what if a lot things lad; what if you posted with more sense and so on.

 

[Foxbatt]

I feel we should sell him and get another player who can be a team player. Yes he has the ability to make top class passes but he is also a liability. Bruno does give away the ball too but he is not so much a liability as Pogba. With Pogba the opposition always has a chance of nicking the ball off him. For a supposed world class player why is it so easy to get the ball off him?

 

[Hugh Jass]

I feel we should sell him and get another player who can be a team player. Yes he has the ability to make top class passes but he is also a liability. Bruno does give away the ball too but he is not so much a liability as Pogba. With Pogba the opposition always has a chance of nicking the ball off him. For a supposed world class player why is it so easy to get the ball off him?

Agreed.

 

[sammsky1]

Agreed. We paid double what he is actually worth.
I would say Paul himself cannot believe the hype he gets.
I once read a poster on this forum a while back say that it would be interesting his career trajectory if he had never came to United as a youngster. Would be have played for Juve and signed for us for 90 million?

I also don't understand what Pogba fanboys see that others don't. Perhaps it's a younger segment of United fans, for whom Pogba is the first big transfer they have followed, so they have no lived comparison to judge by.

Older Manchester United fans can compare with the likes of Robson, Ince, Keane, Veron, Scholes, Carrick, and from other clubs like Lampard, Gerrard, Zidane, Matthaus, Rijkaard, Guardiola, Pirlo, Vierra and from before this era like Laudraup, Charlton, Cruyff. Even in this current era, we have KDB, Kroos, Modric and the Silva's. On the evidence of his Manchester United career so far, Pogba isn't in this company. And yet that is how his fanboys project him. Even after a poor performance, posts are always prefaced with "he's a world class talent BUT ..." ; it's as though they need to restate this sycophancy to reassure their own judgement.

Part of the problem is he is one of the chief architects of the social media generation, instinctively building a massive digital fanbase who only see short clips of 'Hollywood' type football, the type this forum used to ridicule Steven Gerrard for. He knows these short vignettes will be edited and shared, so ensures he completes enough to make a monthly reel. He takes too many touches because he's trying to create the perfect circumstance for his next Hollywood moment and feels insulted that opponents wont allow him time to show off his genius. Those clips generate huge admiration for him which feeds his ego; it's a self perpetuating cycle.

Because he thrives in creating only 'moments of genius', perhaps he simply doesn't know how to deliver a full game of consistent worth. He is mentally weak, drifting in and out of games, normally because he is sulking after his latest failed Hollywood attempt. He is a strong and athletic man, but often has to use those gifts to get himself out of self created trouble. He should know this and alter his game accordingly. It's now quite predictable and is why top level midfielders find it easy to nullify his threat.

I think his footballing instincts are world class, but his actual footballing intelligence is very average. When a moment of Hollywood comes off, it looks majestic on his highlights reel, but he often fails and the team suffers greatly as a result. Moments of cowardice evidenced from the other night doesn't help either.

 

[Heinzesight]

Can the Pogba groupies not understand that his ‘haters’ can all see he has World class talent but we only see very rare glimpses here and there. He can’t be considered World class until he uses it consistently.

World class players aren’t regularly dispossessed in their own half or do that stupid ‘stick your arse out’ to protect the ball and fall over them slam your arms on the ground like a toddler who didn’t get what he wanted for Christmas.

World class players learn from their mistakes and don’t have the arrogance to think they can keep making those mistakes on the pitch over and over again.

Great player in there, no doubt, but I’d sooner he is sacked off. I’d rather a consistent 8/10 player in the squad than a guy who is 10/10 for minutes over a season.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Can the Pogba groupies not understand that his ‘haters’ can all see he has World class talent but we only see very rare glimpses here and there. He can’t be considered World class until he uses it consistently.

World class players aren’t regularly dispossessed in their own half or do that stupid ‘stick your arse out’ to protect the ball and fall over them slam your arms on the ground like a toddler who didn’t get what he wanted for Christmas.

World class players learn from their mistakes and don’t have the arrogance to think they can keep making those mistakes on the pitch over and over again.

Great player in there, no doubt, but I’d sooner he is sacked off. I’d rather a consistent 8/10 player in the squad than a guy who is 10/10 for minutes over a season.

This is exactly how I feel maybe apart from wanting him to leave. He's still a good player and still contributes but he's not the messiah that his fan boys think he is.

His star is actually fading a bit now with the impact Bruno has made so far. Its shown up Pogbas time at United a little bit to be honest. Still think we should keep him though and hope he can kick on. Don't think he will ever be up with KDB though. He is one week and then isn't the following 3 or 4. That's what level he's got to get to.

 

[Hugh Jass]

This is exactly how I feel maybe apart from wanting him to leave. He's still a good player and still contributes but he's not the messiah that his fan boys think he is.

His star is actually fading a bit now with the impact Bruno has made so far. Its shown up Pogbas time at United a little bit to be honest. Still think we should keep him though and hope he can kick on. Don't think he will ever be up with KDB though. He is one week and then isn't the following 3 or 4. That's what level he's got to get to.

This.

 

[GiddyUp]

What is that and what does it mean?

Funny enough it is only seen in Anthony and Paul's thread, our only two black french players.

Sigh. And here we go.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

On his day brilliant, but seem to let us down too often when we really need him.
Shame we can't find the world cup Pogba here.
I think he can be key in the europa league. It should suit him after he got some rest before it.

 

[Infra-red]

Proper computer gangster.

I (like Antonio and Fernandes, seemingly) thought that Pogba's handball and subsequent attempt to pretend it had hit him in the face, was hilarious. I'm not quite sure how this makes any of us "gangsters" - I'd ask you to explain, but having seen the rest of the drivel you've just posted, I don't think I'll bother.

 

[Clermontois]

I (like Antonio and Fernandes, seemingly) thought that Pogba's handball and subsequent attempt to pretend it had hit him in the face, was hilarious. I'm not quite sure how this makes any of us "gangsters" - I'd ask you to explain, but having seen the rest of the drivel you've just posted, I don't think I'll bother.

I cannot see that being positive for Fernandes going forward. Most likely he had some real explaining to do in the locker room. Paul putting his face into his shirt could also be seen as him being embarrassed at what took place.

Us? My post was to you.

That is for the best.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

If we think about it..
Pogba won us more games and points more than the mistakes he made that costed us.

Just how many points/games he costed us?
Too few in comparison to the goals, assists, A2A and supports he made.

Nice trade-off. He'll make more mistakes in the future and that's okay.

 

[nimic]

I also don't understand what Pogba fanboys see that others don't. Perhaps it's a younger segment of United fans, for whom Pogba is the first big transfer they have followed, so they have no lived comparison to judge by.

Older Manchester United fans can compare with the likes of Robson, Ince, Keane, Veron, Scholes, Carrick, and from other clubs, Lampard, Gerrard, Zidane, Matthaus, Rijkaard, Guardiola, Pirlo, Vierra and going before this era, Laudraup, Charlton, Cruyff. Even in this current era, we have KDB, Kroos, Modric and the Silva's. On the evidence of his Manchester United careers far, Pogba isn't in this company. And yet that is how his fanboys project him. Even after a poor performance, posts are always prefaced with "he's a world class talent BUT ..." ; it's as though they need to restate this sycophancy to reassure their own judgement.

This is a little bit patronizing, sammsky. I also think your list of comparison is a little strange. I loved Veron, but he was not at all a success at the club. And while Ince had a good career, Pogba clearly has a lot that he didn't.

The way you word your post generally stands in stark contrast to the otherwise significant effort that goes into explaining your point of view. What's the point in talking about "fanboys", for example? That just puts people on the defensive because they feel like you're insulting them from the outset, which you essentially are.

And, honestly, cowardice?

 

[redmanx]

I also don't understand what Pogba fanboys see that others don't. Perhaps it's a younger segment of United fans, for whom Pogba is the first big transfer they have followed, so they have no lived comparison to judge by.

Older Manchester United fans can compare with the likes of Robson, Ince, Keane, Veron, Scholes, Carrick, and from other clubs, Lampard, Gerrard, Zidane, Matthaus, Rijkaard, Guardiola, Pirlo, Vierra and going before this era, Laudraup, Charlton, Cruyff. Even in this current era, we have KDB, Kroos, Modric and the Silva's. On the evidence of his Manchester United careers far, Pogba isn't in this company. And yet that is how his fanboys project him. Even after a poor performance, posts are always prefaced with "he's a world class talent BUT ..." ; it's as though they need to restate this sycophancy to reassure their own judgement.

Part of the problem is he is one of the chief architects of the social media generation, instinctively building a massive social media fanbase, who only see short clips of 'Hollywood' type football, the type this forum used to ridicule Steven Gerrard for. He knows these short vignettes will be edited and shared, so ensures he completes enough to make a monthly reel. He takes too many touches because he's trying to create the perfect circumstance for his next Hollywood moment and feels insulted that opponents wont allow him time to show off his genius. Those clips generate huge admiration for him which feeds his ego; it's a self perpetuating cycle.

Because he thrives in creating only 'moments of genius', perhaps he simply doesn't know how to deliver a full game of consistent worth. He is lucky to be such a strong and athletic man, and uses those gifts to get himself out of self created trouble too much for my liking. It's now quite predictable and is why top level midfielders find it easy to nullify his threat.

I think his footballing instincts are world class, but his actual footballing intelligence is very average. When a moment of Hollywood comes off, it looks majestic for his highlights reel, but he often fails and the team suffers greatly as a result. He should know this and alter his game accordingly, but wont. He is also mentally weak, drifting in and out of games normally because he is sulking after his latest failed Hollywood attempt. The cowardice evidenced from the other night doesn't help.

I couldnt agree more.

 

[No Love]

Jesus. The last two pages of this thread are car crash material, all crowned off with an insinuation of a racial agenda against Pogba. What a mess.

Like I said before, I cannot recall another player who has divided our fan base so much. Hilariously, it’s a debate that will rumble on even if/when he leaves in the future. Should he move elsewhere, I have no doubt he will have a prominent thread on here which people will camp out in and bump regularly with lots of, ‘I told you so!’ type comments every time Paul slides a decent ball through on goal. We are stuck with this messy topic for the foreseeable, unfortunately.

@sammsky1 I agree with what you’re saying. That’s a good post. The scary thing is, there are genuinely people on here who could string together a convoluted argument as to why they’d rather have Pogba than Keane/Scholes/Robson etc.

 

[VeevaVee]

Sigh. And here we go.

Oh dear. That they’re French is pure coincidence. That they’re black is just quite likely when half the first team is. What that has to do with a dig at their ott fanboys I don’t know though.

 

[VeevaVee]

Jesus. The last two pages of this thread are car crash material, all crowned off with an insinuation of a racial agenda against Pogba. What a mess.

Like I said before, I cannot recall another player who has divided our fan base so much. Hilariously, it’s a debate that will rumble on even if/when he leaves in the future. Should he move elsewhere, I have no doubt he will have a prominent thread on here which people will camp out in and bump regularly with lots of, ‘I told you so!’ type comments every time Paul slides a decent ball through on goal. We are stuck with this messy topic for the foreseeable, unfortunately.

There’s people doing this for Lukaku, hilariously enough. Deffo gonna happen if Pogba leaves.

 

[Clermontois]

I also don't understand what Pogba fanboys see that others don't. Perhaps it's a younger segment of United fans, for whom Pogba is the first big transfer they have followed, so they have no lived comparison to judge by.

Older Manchester United fans can compare with the likes of Robson, Ince, Keane, Veron, Scholes, Carrick, and from other clubs, Lampard, Gerrard, Zidane, Matthaus, Rijkaard, Guardiola, Pirlo, Vierra and going before this era, Laudraup, Charlton, Cruyff. Even in this current era, we have KDB, Kroos, Modric and the Silva's. On the evidence of his Manchester United career so far, Pogba isn't in this company. And yet that is how his fanboys project him. Even after a poor performance, posts are always prefaced with "he's a world class talent BUT ..." ; it's as though they need to restate this sycophancy to reassure their own judgement.

Part of the problem is he is one of the chief architects of the social media generation, instinctively building a massive digital fanbase who only see short clips of 'Hollywood' type football, the type this forum used to ridicule Steven Gerrard for. He knows these short vignettes will be edited and shared, so ensures he completes enough to make a monthly reel. He takes too many touches because he's trying to create the perfect circumstance for his next Hollywood moment and feels insulted that opponents wont allow him time to show off his genius. Those clips generate huge admiration for him which feeds his ego; it's a self perpetuating cycle.

I have not seen any fanboys of Paul in the last few pages except maybe you and the noucamp chap, always running into this thread with spotty logic. If you do not fancy Paul why come into this thread everyday to talk about him. Makes no sense.

Great players, great performers, mentioned in those lists there but bar Zinedine Zidane none from the modern era are/were more talented than Paul. What they do have going for them was that they all played in exceptional club teams, the lot of them. There is absolutely no way Kroos or Modric could have had the career performances they had if they had remained at their previous clubs, nothing else to it. Paul has played for one great club team in his career and that was in Italy.


Few if any people who follow football or who play football know of Paul through his social media.

Left the remaining post to blow into obscurity.

Oh dear. That they’re French is pure coincidence. That they’re black is just quite likely when half the first team is. What that has to do with a dig at their ott fanboys I don’t know though.

A spade is a spade and should be called such. The over the top criticism Paul and Anthony get(wimp, donkey, various cusses), is not seen for other players who are just as deserving if any or even more so. Once criticism becomes unfair and downright nasty then one needs to understand the source, a source which caused smoke of this type long before Paul uttered those words in Japan. Neville has a lot to answer for in that respect but his day is coming.

 

[VeevaVee]

A spade is a spade and should be called such. The over the top criticism Paul and Anthony get(wimp, donkey, various cusses), is not seen for other players who are just as deserving if any or even more so.

Yeah that's just not true though. Search the word donkey and Maguire, DDG, and Matic are on the first page alone. Search the word wimp and Lindelof and DDG are both mentioned on the first page despite Pogba being the clear wimp of the week.

 

[Clermontois]

Yeah that's just not true though. Search the word donkey and Maguire, DDG, and Matic are on the first page alone. Search the word wimp and Lindelof and DDG are both mentioned on the first page despite Pogba being the clear wimp of the week.

It is and I said over the top, not just a first page or a word here or there it is incessant with Paul.

If you think what he did was such, it is clear you are another computer gangster who has never played football or clearly don't know what you are watching. He did right to protect himself, after being criticized from top to the bottom why should he accept possible long term brain damage for this club, joke. Let someone kick a ball at you unexpectedly, not even standing in a wall or even in the line of the goal, and you not put your arm up then you can call someone a wimp, gangster.

 

[ghagua]

This is a little bit patronizing, sammsky. I also think your list of comparison is a little strange. I loved Veron, but he was not at all a success at the club. And while Ince had a good career, Pogba clearly has a lot that he didn't.

The way you word your post generally stands in stark contrast to the otherwise significant effort that goes into explaining your point of view. What's the point in talking about "fanboys", for example? That just puts people on the defensive because they feel like you're insulting them from the outset, which you essentially are.

And, honestly, cowardice?

I know that Ince is persona non grata among United fans, but he was immense for a few years at Old Trafford, especially the first premier league title season, and then the double the next year. Pogba is certainly more skillful, but he has not shown the heart or the desire on the pitch on a consistent basis. If he were to leave the club this summer, Redcafe will break under the strain of people slagging him off, and that's from his supporters to start off with.

 

[VeevaVee]

It is and I said over the top, not just a first page or a word here or there it is incessant with Paul.

If you think what he did was such, it is clear you are another computer gangster who has never played football or clearly don't know what you are watching. He did right to protect himself, after being criticized from top to the bottom why should he accept possible long term brain damage for this club, joke. Let someone kick a ball at you unexpectedly, not even standing in a wall or even in the line of the goal, and you not put your arm up then you can call someone a wimp, gangster.

Yes ok, I've never played football and I'm a computer gangster. Perhaps you're a wimp too, but please let me if you're black first so I know if it's ok to call you one.

 

[Strelok]

Are you not paying attention to his lower half? It's clearly bent. Where do you think his head would be in relation to the ball had his lower half not been bent? That's our point. If he stood up straight, his hands would be up to his face just like De Bruyne's situation.

What you're saying is that Pogba would have never been hit in the face if he stood still. That his hands blocked the ball for no reason, thus extending the natural area his body blocks in relation to the strike. An equivalent situation would be if a player sticks his hand out horizontally, thus an unnatural amount of area is covered. That is not what Pogba did. If you were to draw a box from his toe to his head, I don't think his hands would extend that boxed area.

Tbh, having said that, this is all in the context of an instantaneous moment. So if somebody were on the ground and just stuck their hand up to block something, then they would give up a pen. I don't really have a problem with Pogba being given a pen. I just think that the rule is stupid if there is a difference between De Bruyne's situation and Pogba's.

The silhouette definition:
"the dark shape and outline of someone or something visible in restricted light against a brighter background."

That does not mean your default shape standing with max height but whatever shape you're doing. It's not like you can sit down and raise your hands to block the ball and no pen.

Plus in the article from goal.com:

the ball touches a player's hand/arm when it's raised above their shoulder.

Pogba hands both made his silhouette bigger and raised above his shoulder.

 

[threamcloud]

Now whoever thinks Pogba not being world-class are all racist. Nice. I am speechless. And done with Pogba fan club. I mean. Why bother anymore?

Just for your 2 cents, I am Asian, I am bad at driving, I am good at maths and I'm a working hard man then watch MU. And I don't bring the racial card onto the table whenever shit things happen in real life. Maybe if some people can understand that there wouldn't be this discussion and less chaos in this already chaotic world.

 

[redmanx]

Oh dear. That they’re French is pure coincidence. That they’re black is just quite likely when half the first team is. What that has to do with a dig at their ott fanboys I don’t know though.

I wondered how long it would be before some idiot mentioned "race" His colour, nationality has nothing to do with it, and neither has Brexit!

 

[kouroux]

The price tag definitely works against him, as do all the endorsements (with the billboards and his face plastered everywhere) and the hype (wherever it's from).

If it was a McTominay putting in his performances, the discussion would be a lot more positive I'm certain.

Basically, I think all the talk of him being 'world class' is just nonsense. Plus we spent a massive (world record) fee on someone who was never near worth it. He's a good player (very good on his day) but he's masquerading as a 'superstar'.

That's done by the stupid fans. They build up this stupid expectation of him, it's crazy

 

[Strelok]

Hey guys let's drop the racism and gangster, wimp etc. stuffs and have a serious discussion about him.

I don't know if anyone has said this but Pogba, imo is actually a pretty weird player.

He's strong, tall and has a decent pace. His first touch, technique and passing is top notch. His shooting, well no longer the calibre he showed in Juve but still very good. His dribbling is pretty neat as well for a guy of his size. He's also a flair and creative player. I would say he's a hell of player with his attacking talent.

However, imo it's really hard to use him.

You can't use him as an AM because he's not fast and agile enough in closed and crowded space. He usually needs a bit of space and time after a touch.

You can't use him as a box to box because he lacks the work rate required. Box to box midfielder can't have the luxury of walking around. All great B2B midfielders have great work rate, and great stamina. To play in this position you basically have to run all day long. Up to join an attack, forth to defend, to press, to chase the ball.

You can't use him as a holding because he lacks the awareness, concentration and disciplines required. He also doesn't read defensive situations well enough. Despite this is probably the best position for him because of his great range and quality in passing. And his need of space and time. Imo it's ok to play him in this position if we can dominate the game, against much weaker opposition. But as it showed with the Sou match, a decent midfield with good enough pressing would completely expose his weakness.

In short, honestly I just can't see a position where he could use his strength to the max without compromising the balance of a good midfield. Again any decent enough midfield with good pressing and his weakness becomes a liability.

Any idea guys?

 

[Raven]

I also don't understand what Pogba fanboys see that others don't. Perhaps it's a younger segment of United fans, for whom Pogba is the first big transfer they have followed, so they have no lived comparison to judge by.

Older Manchester United fans can compare with the likes of Robson, Ince, Keane, Veron, Scholes, Carrick, and from other clubs like Lampard, Gerrard, Zidane, Matthaus, Rijkaard, Guardiola, Pirlo, Vierra and from before this era like Laudraup, Charlton, Cruyff. Even in this current era, we have KDB, Kroos, Modric and the Silva's. On the evidence of his Manchester United career so far, Pogba isn't in this company. And yet that is how his fanboys project him. Even after a poor performance, posts are always prefaced with "he's a world class talent BUT ..." ; it's as though they need to restate this sycophancy to reassure their own judgement.

Part of the problem is he is one of the chief architects of the social media generation, instinctively building a massive digital fanbase who only see short clips of 'Hollywood' type football, the type this forum used to ridicule Steven Gerrard for. He knows these short vignettes will be edited and shared, so ensures he completes enough to make a monthly reel. He takes too many touches because he's trying to create the perfect circumstance for his next Hollywood moment and feels insulted that opponents wont allow him time to show off his genius. Those clips generate huge admiration for him which feeds his ego; it's a self perpetuating cycle.

Because he thrives in creating only 'moments of genius', perhaps he simply doesn't know how to deliver a full game of consistent worth. He is mentally weak, drifting in and out of games, normally because he is sulking after his latest failed Hollywood attempt. He is a strong and athletic man, but often has to use those gifts to get himself out of self created trouble. He should know this and alter his game accordingly. It's now quite predictable and is why top level midfielders find it easy to nullify his threat.

I think his footballing instincts are world class, but his actual footballing intelligence is very average. When a moment of Hollywood comes off, it looks majestic on his highlights reel, but he often fails and the team suffers greatly as a result. Moments of cowardice evidenced from the other night doesn't help either.

Absolutely terrible post, thanks.

 

[Raven]

The fatigue is killing all of oour players, barring Martial (weirdly). Pogba came back from lockdown in magnificent form, it has dropped off since the whole team started looking leggy and especially when Shaw got injured.

Can we please stop pretending that Pogba's dip in form has to do with anything other than fitness and get through the last game in the league without continuing to act like arm chair psychologists and children.

 

[Adisa]

Did not take long for the rubbish to come out of the woodwork.

 

[hmchan]

Hey guys let's drop the racism and gangster, wimp etc. stuffs and have a serious discussion about him.

I don't know if anyone has said this but Pogba, imo is actually a pretty weird player.

He's strong, tall and has a decent pace. His first touch, technique and passing is top notch. His shooting, well no longer the calibre he showed in Juve but still very good. His dribbling is pretty neat as well for a guy of his size. Technically I would say he's a hell of player.

However, imo it's really hard to use him.

You can't use him as an AM because he's not fast and agile enough in closed and crowded space. He usually needs a bit of space and time after a touch.

You can't use him as a box to box because he lacks the work rate required. Box to box midfielder can't have the luxury of walking around. All great B2B midfielders have great work rate, and great stamina. To play in this position you basically have to run all day long. Up to join an attack, forth to defend, to press, to chase the ball.

You can't use him as a holding because he lacks the awareness, concentration and disciplines required. He also doesn't read defensive situations well enough. Despite this is probably the best position for him because of his great range and quality in passing. And his need of space and time. Imo it's ok to play him in this position if we can dominate the game, against much weaker opposition. But as it showed with the Sou match, a decent midfield with good enough pressing would completely exposed his weakness.

In short, honestly I just can't see a position where he could use his strength to the max without compromising the balance of a good midfield. Again any decent enough midfield with good pressing and his weakness becomes a liability.

Any idea guys?

To me Pogba is always a playmaker playing at the no. 8, something like Kroos (of course it's totally different the way they play). His main responsibilities are to bring the ball from back to front, make progressive and long passes. He has some defensive duties but not too much. I think he's generally doing fine in this role but of course he needs to further improve his consistency and minimize his errors.

It's a bit unfair to say Pogba can't play against a pressing midfield. He has good physical ability and he uses it well to beat a press all the time. The real problem is that we lack a plan in our buildup play and we rely heavily on his individual quality in offensive transition, especially when being pressed. Matic, Fred, McTominay, Pereira have all lost the ball in those positions this season and I have to wonder why don't we just kick the ball long.

 

[Charles Miller]

Yeah, i don't agree with this hate directed to one specific player. We should hate all players equally.

 

[Strelok]

To me Pogba is always a playmaker playing at the no. 8, something like Kroos (of course it's totally different the way they play). His main responsibilities are to bring the ball from back to front, make progressive and long passes. He has some defensive duties but not too much. I think he's generally doing fine in this role but of course he needs to further improve his consistency and minimize his errors.

It's a bit unfair to say Pogba can't play against a pressing midfield. He has good physical ability and he uses it well to beat a press all the time. The real problem is that we lack a plan in our buildup play and we rely heavily on his individual quality in offensive transition, especially when being pressed. Matic, Fred, McTominay, Pereira have all lost the ball in those positions this season and I have to wonder why don't we just kick the ball long.

Problem is to him for play that No 8 role with that little defensive duties we'd need a very good DM and a very good B2B to complement his lack of running, pressing and defending. Thus no AM is allowed unless we plan to play a diamond and drop one of our attacking trio.

And tbh, so far his attacking output is no where near as effective as Bruno to compete for that playmaker role. We can't play with a AM and a no 8 playmaker with little to no defensive duties. The defensive duties of a whole midfield would fall to the DM and it'd be too much for any DM to handle.

And it's not true that he beat the pressing all the time mate. He lost a few just recently.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

The fatigue is killing all of oour players, barring Martial (weirdly). Pogba came back from lockdown in magnificent form, it has dropped off since the whole team started looking leggy and especially when Shaw got injured.

Can we please stop pretending that Pogba's dip in form has to do with anything other than fitness and get through the last game in the league without continuing to act like arm chair psychologists and children.

Martial looks really hungry at the moment. He's in the form of his life and probably the happiest he has been since he joined

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He really gets a rough deal around these parts. Bruno on the other hand can spend an entire match passing it to our opponents and nobody seems to care.

 

[hmchan]

Problem is to him for play that No 8 role with that little defensive duties we'd need a very good DM and a very good B2B to complement his lack of running, pressing and defending. Thus no AM is allowed unless we plan to play a diamond and drop one of our attacking trio.

And tbh, so far his attacking output is no where near as effective as Bruno to compete for that playmaker role. We can't play with a AM and a no 8 playmaker with little to no defensive duties. The defensive duties of a whole midfield would fall to the DM and it'd be too much for any DM to handle.

And it's not true that he beat the pressing all the time mate. He lost a few just recently.

I've always thought Pogba's defensive contribution is underrated. He actually has better defensive stats than the prime Yaya Toure, who was arguably one of the best box-to-box in the decade. We had the second best defensive records in the league in 16/17 and 17/18, conceding only 29 and 28 goals respectively with him in a double pivot. I see no problem playing him there with an extra attacking midfielder ahead of him.

Yes Pogba has lost a few when pressed recently and that'll continue to happen if the team still relies on his individual quality in offensive transition. We lack a clear plan facing a press and the only way out for now is to pass to Pogba, cross our fingers and hope he can bring the ball out safely (sometimes it's Matic). Most of the time he does, but it's unavoidable that he gets caught sometimes when he attempts frequently.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Martial looks really hungry at the moment. He's in the form of his life and probably the happiest he has been since he joined

Wait till he has a bad game and all the usual suspect will jump on him and start pointing out how he is lazy, not interested etc.

It took 2 games for Pogba to get that. All these posters calling out "Pogba fans" were nowhere to be seen when he was playing well.

Pogba was coming back from injury and looks clearly not completely fit. I can count 9 other players who had worse run in than Pogba but it's amazing the amount of stick he gets while rest gets a pass

 

[pratyush_utd]

He really gets a rough deal around these parts. Bruno on the other hand can spend an entire match passing it to our opponents and nobody seems to care.

I know it's just football but it irritates me a lot. Its like people don't even watch football that we play. You can identify the posters who go silent when he was playing well but 1 bad game, all of a sudden they are claiming how "Pogba fans" are delusional. As if football players are not allowed to make mistakes or specifically Pogba isn't allowed to make. Bruno on the other hand has been the worst player on the pitch in last 3 matches but nobody seems to care.