so you are right, always right when it comes to Pogba and Matic and everyone else is wrong. OK then.
And you cant just ignore the handball. It cost us our only goal conceded: it determined the match score.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 22
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
And you cant just ignore the handball. It cost us our only goal conceded: it determined the match score.
So I'm wrong when I say that Pogba was bad?
How many "when he's on his game" did he have since the season resumed?
Did I say anything about 'heart'? No. We are taking about the act of trying. Try to close your man down, try to play a cross field ball, try to be creative in any way.
How you expect Man United fans not to have their opinion of a performance swayed by the fact a player couldn't give 2 shits whether they impacted the outcome of a match?
They just want to push the idea that it's ok to be poor as long as the other players are poor anyway, which is always a very weird logic.
'Matic having a 5, or any of our midfielders is a bit of joke.'
But even that statement is a blatant lie.
feck, so I did. The rest of my post still stands thoughWho are they? I didn't bring other players into the conversation, Pogba was bad and that's on him, it's not acceptable, I wouldn't put it on fatigue or anything else but himself. It's other posters who brought Matic into it.
Going by the logic in the sentence in bold, doesn't that mean that Pogba had a worse game?
And? I have no issue with Pogba's grade but 5 is an average performance and no one had an average performance in that midfield it was subpar for everyone.
Someone thought Matic had a better game than Pogba, it was one sentence in a full post. I'm not sure making the full discussion about how Matic was poor too like Pogba serves anything. Maybe Matic was average but he was better because he simply didn't feck us up as Pogba.
I'd sell him if we could get our money back, we won't though.
For an average score of 5 from 291 submissions, many poster would have given Matic 6's and 7's.
But you think you know better than everyone else, as you stated 'Matic having a 5 ... is a bit of joke.'
That is what I am trying to establish.
The issue was with the idea that Matic looked like the much better midfielder, I don't think that Matic looked like anything better. Now if you are going to give them a grade it would be fair to give a worse one to Pogba for that incident but the incident has nothing to do with looking like a much/worse midfielder. Their performances in midfield were in my opinion similar during the 90 minutes that they played.
By your logic it also means that as many posters gave him 3's and 4's. It doesn't exactly put me against everyone else.
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No it's not.
Someone is asked to sit between CBs and do defensive work while building up playing. The other is supposed to be one of the 2 creative forces in the team.
The latter fecked us up in the pen and spend the second half doing absolutely nothing and playing it totally safe instead of pushing forward and helping Bruno creating chances.
I'm not sure how both are comparable.
I think it establishes that you have a huge bias in favour of Pogba and therefore your opinions about him will always lack objectivity.
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And one was involved in our only goal while the other did prevent West Ham from thoroughly dominating in midfield. So at which point did Matic do his job properly?
This is how I feel, I want nothing more than Pogba to light it up every match and see him do well here.
last night he frustrated me, after the pen he did make a few runs into the box I thought to try and redeem himself, that helped with the goal as he occupied the centrebacks slightly. I was busting for more of it. Hopefully/maybe it is pure tiredness but he didn’t seem to be all that motivated last night.
As they’re also being talked about, matic and Bruno didn’t have the best games either but at least Bruno seemed to be having a go, tireless running even though he gave the ball away cheaply.
"Involved in our goal ? Your problem is that you're logical in every other discussion bar Pogba's ones, in these your logic goes out of the window. Even when criticizing him, it feels like you're pushing this criticism so hard through your teeth and trying as well to say other were also poor anyway.
What Pogba did in the goal was a simple pass to Greenwood outside the box, Greenwood later on exchanged 2-3 passes with Martial on their own till Greenwood got a chance to shot. Big deal.
Meanwhile I'm not sure what Matic had do do with WHU dominating the midfield. Again, he's asked to sit deep, help in defending and build up play from the back. We were decent defensively, with the only problem he did was conceding a lot of fouls imo.
Dominating midfield is actually the job of both Pogba and Bruno. They're 2 creative forces and they're one who plays in center of the park and up top, so they're supposed to be the one to keep possession and dominate the ball.
His presence made the defender hesitate instead of quickly closing Greenwood down, giving him time and space to make the shot. I'm not sure anyone can't see that.
Agreed.
Someone else brought Matic into this thread, I didn't and I wouldn't have. The only thing that interested me was the handball because I thought that it was a weird incident, when it comes to our players performances I don't have a lot of good things to say about that game. And I have no issue criticizing Pogba, so may want to check your feelings.
Ok, I see you point. Thank you.
This isn't the first discussion we had about Pogba previously so this feeling isn't based on this only. I find your posts logical in every matter you talk about bar Pogba's one. Of course, you're free to feel otherwise. I'm not telling you to change your way of thinking or anything.
No problem and have a nice day.
But that's nonsensical, I have actually been called a hater at some point because I have issues with Pogba and parts of his football, if people want to discuss them I have no issue. I openly said that he was overrated, I don't think that he is a leader or at least not in the traditional sense and he is inconsistent. My issue with a part of the fanbase is that they make up things, they talk about feelings, as you did with me, they make up narratives that irks me and have nothing to do with Football. But if you want to talk about Football and the fact that Pogba has poor defensive positioning and awareness, that he can do really dumb things like he did for France against Turkey or if you want to talk about his stamina which seems more and more suspect then we can talk but I have mentioned all of these things in the past, I simply don't feel the need to say it every weeks.
I haven't entered a single discussion about Pogba with you that you weren't the one who's defending him, beside it doesn't seem like I'm the only who feels you're biased towards him.
Again, fair enough if these points are true.
Sadly I was exactly the same. I was so excited when we signed him and has been a fan of his since. If you check my post history you'd see I really wanted him to sign a new contract just about a week ago.
But after this match. It's not like he having a bad performance that is the problem. Every players have some days off. The problem is this was one of the most important matches of the season. And I always think he really want CL football and it's a big reason why he wanted to leave. But did he give a sht? Even after him causing an embarrassing penalty ? Which may resulted in us and him having no CL football next season? No, not a fecking single bit. Even with that on the stake and he can't be motivated, what on earth could then ?
I started to have a feeling that giving him a huge contract would probably result in tears. For us. We already have serious situation of long contract super highly paid bad performance seem to give no sht in Sanchez and DDG. We definitely do not need another one.
You need to look at what discussion is about, if you claim that Pogba doesn't care or that he is focused on his haircuts I will defend him because those are silly points to make. If you want to talk about his strength and weaknesses then it's a different conversation. There is a reason why I didn't want Pogba in 2016 and it's not because I think that he is flawless.
Fair enough. No problem.
Games like WHU and Southamptom really cause a big problem. Granted we aren't fresh anymore but truth is that we are getting pressed aggressively and suddenly we look a shambles. Whether its lack of coaching nous, mentality and intelligence of the players, quality of the players is hard to say right now. I expect a bit of everything.
Specifically regarding Pogba's mentality. Yes I strongly believe that he does care. A lot. But I don't think he knows how to be a leader to others and even himself. Same for many in the team. When the wheels come off I see a lot of quiet players out there looking a bit shellshocked. Its the thing I hate to see more than anything. Recently we have been there to be thumped without a clue how to stop the bleeding.
So in summary we look out thought and outfought. And I think the former also leads to panic. When the players see the wheels coming off and feel powerless to stop it kills their confidence.
As mentioned before I do think everyone is trying hard but its the aggression and intelligence that is missing. I also feel that Ole's tactics are again looking quite ad hoc. The more time he has had the more stale we have become. We need urgency and aggression and tactical smart. At the moment games drift and drift and we look like sitting ducks.
How much do you reckon we could get him for ? That was a better save than kepas ever done for us.
Pogba has been given enough time is his preferred role (since season restart), in the best team we've had since he joined, to prove himself and show what he really is as a player. He is not world-class, I’d describe him as “high risk high reward” player, what explains why he looks so good in flashes/compilation videos. Once you observe him closely in a game, you see how many big flaws he has.
I don’t see a place for him in this team. Inconsistent, sloppy first touch - can’t play no10 effectively, bad positioning and low defensive contribution, dwells on the ball, takes too many touches, not to mention his attitude of coasting through games. He is a great long range passer for sure and has a decent long range shot on him.
It’s quite clear he is not good enough to build a team around him. The big question is, what do we expect from midfielder between Matic and Bruno (who are undroppable at this point - but should be rotated!). Personally I’d much rather have an energetic box to box player, who is capable of chasing the ball in defense and can contribute to ball circulation in attack. We have decent attacking power with Martial/Rashford/Greenwood/Bruno and whoever joins us in the summer, so from team performance point of view it makes sense to add B2B midfielder, even if we lose the occasional goal/assist from Pogba.
I don’t see a place for him in this team. Inconsistent, sloppy first touch - can’t play no10 effectively, bad positioning and low defensive contribution, dwells on the ball, takes too many touches, not to mention his attitude of coasting through games. He is a great long range passer for sure and has a decent long range shot on him.
It’s quite clear he is not good enough to build a team around him. The big question is, what do we expect from midfielder between Matic and Bruno (who are undroppable at this point - but should be rotated!). Personally I’d much rather have an energetic box to box player, who is capable of chasing the ball in defense and can contribute to ball circulation in attack. We have decent attacking power with Martial/Rashford/Greenwood/Bruno and whoever joins us in the summer, so from team performance point of view it makes sense to add B2B midfielder, even if we lose the occasional goal/assist from Pogba.
The only time he dictates play is when we are 2 Nil up and opposition is trying to survive to the final whistle. He is not a playmaker, which is hardly a criticism as they are really rare in modern football.
Shit happens and he looked absolutely gutted. He is not a repeat offender in the sense having brainfart every now and then. So I would let go.
Can’t stop thinking about this guy and what he did yesterday. He is supposed to lead. Y example and he goes ahead to do that. Why not duck or jump with your back out? He really doesn’t want me to enjoy my summer does he?
Sorry but the wheels ? Tbh I don't get what you said.
And this horsesht of blaming coaching. Was he coached to not defend, to not press, to not tackle and to raise his hands in the penalty area?
And talent? Even fecking Lingard can press.
And if you watched the match yesterday and still say he cares a lot then I'm speechless. It's not like him being a leader or not. None ask him to do that despite being the one of highest paid, supposedly world class, WC winner etc he should have to in the first place. It's himself trying and doing feck all. How anyone cares could try nothing, he didn't even bother to press. Can you explain this ?
You lot of Pogba fanboys should stop protecting him at all cost like this. Say it as it is. It's those nonsense that got others to turn against him even more.
the only thing I would add to that is, the mentality of most players who made such a mistake, would be to come out in the 2nd half like a man possessed in a bid to make up for your mistake. He didn't, which to me is just as worrying as him switching off at the free kick.
Really think we need to cut him some slack. Pogba has barely had any game time on the season and he's pretty much right into the thick of things in June. He's bound to be tired, not to mention playing in a slightly unfamiliar position
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