[Chesterlestreet]

I was just being glib.

Gotcha (I suspected as much, of course).

As for game changing moments - yeah, what can you say? He obviously hasn't done nearly enough to convince anyone neutral/objective that he's a top, top player worth hanging on to at all costs.

However, in the second half of this very strange season, he has been pretty good (sometimes excellent, rarely shite) in a deeper role. If he can keep delivering good performances, frequently, in said role, I personally don't care that he isn't spectacular/world class/whatever - OR that he doesn't contribute directly with goals and assists to a huge extent (as long as others do, I mean).

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Urrgh, cringe.

Hey, go easy on Mrs P. She's only standing up for her lad, as any good mother would.

Spoiler: Clermontois

 

[Clermontois]

Pogba's bottom level is pretty dire. And he does not tend to deliver anything which directly contributes to a result when he's having an off day. *

* For United, at least.

Hey, go easy on Mrs P. She's only standing up for her lad, as any good mother would.
"[/SPOILER="Clermontois"]
[/SPOILER]"

Not sure what this has to do with this thread but you should be careful what you post about someone's family. Would you like it if I posted about your mum?! No, so why post about someone else's.

Looking at your other post above that though, it is no wonder why you are sinking to such depths.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Would you like it if I posted about your mum?!

Sorry Paul - I really am. Didn't know you were on the Caf. Duly noted, though - won't happen again.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Gotcha (I suspected as much, of course).

As for game changing moments - yeah, what can you say? He obviously hasn't done nearly enough to convince anyone neutral/objective that he's a top, top player worth hanging on to at all costs.

However, in the second half of this very strange season, he has been pretty good (sometimes excellent, rarely shite) in a deeper role. If he can keep delivering good performances, frequently, in said role, I personally don't care that he isn't spectacular/world class/whatever - OR that he doesn't contribute directly with goals and assists to a huge extent (as long as others do, I mean).

Yup. Last paragraph sums up my thoughts.

I have nagging doubts that every midfield he will ever feature in puts undue pressure on other CMs to compensate for his flaws. Especially against really top class opposition. Hence he’s caused so many grey hairs for everyone that’s managed him - for club and country. However, equally, the stuff he does do well he does very well indeed. So he’s definitely a net positive for the team overall. So long as he stays focused and hungry and - crucially - we’re on a good run of results.

If/when we hit our next slump there’s a definite risk that he starts sulking, dreaming about Madrid and becomes an albatross round our necks, all over again.

 

[He'sRaldo]

If/when we hit our next slump there’s a definite risk that he starts sulking, dreaming about Madrid and becomes an albatross round our necks, all over again.

Ideally we shouldn't be hitting slumps or losing more than a few games really, as that will most likely mean a missed chance at silverware. If that happens, high reputation players will definitely not be happy.

With that said, it's the responsibility of every player as well as the manager to ensure it doesn't happen. So he's not exempt from that himself.

 

[Borys]

I'll probably regret getting into that as I think point you make are little absurd, but here we go...

He would have more time on the ball further up as we are pressed heavily from the front these days.

Playing in deep midfield, he is pressed by strikers. Playing further up he would be pressed by strikers, midfielders, wingers and possibly defenders, so no.

If we are asking the most skillful midfielder in football to stop dribbling then the club is not fit to have him and it only happens in England. Imagine Paris saying to Neymar only dribble in the opponents box; such a silly notion.

I have nothing against Pogba dribbling in opponents box, as I believe he's quite good at it. But dribbling in the middle of the park, with 3 opposition players on him - that is the problem.

Also he is already an exceptional midfielder all the while he is being played out of position by Ole against all common sense.

Common sense tells me Bruno is better attacking midfielder. I agree he's being played out of position but that raises the question about how he fits our team currently.

Off the ball movement is more important for attacking midfielders, wingers and strikers, it literally does little for a deep lying midfielder but continue to clutch at straws mate.

It's equally important for all players, because every player has to defend. Just looking at this bolded bit makes me think like I am really talking to Paul!

 

[E-mal]

He needs to simplify his game, same applies to Bruno and Rashford.
Often times we complicate it a lot.

 

[E-mal]

Yup. Last paragraph sums up my thoughts.

I have nagging doubts that every midfield he will ever feature in puts undue pressure on other CMs to compensate for his flaws. Especially against really top class opposition. Hence he’s caused so many grey hairs for everyone that’s managed him - for club and country. However, equally, the stuff he does do well he does very well indeed. So he’s definitely a net positive for the team overall. So long as he stays focused and hungry and - crucially - we’re on a good run of results.

If/when we hit our next slump there’s a definite risk that he starts sulking, dreaming about Madrid and becomes an albatross round our necks, all over again.

I am a huge fan of his but I share everything you have said.
Sometime I wonder if getting a player like Alcantara wouldn't pay our team better, although without the injury.


Pogba tries to complicate things and leaves me doubting if he is ever going to be a reliable CM. He should be in his prime with decision making but how can you get your self out of a tight situation only for you to begin step overs in the middle of the pack when a simple pass would have us in the final third?

He should simplify his game and decision making next season.

 

[izzydiggler]

I just find him wholly frustrating. Talented no doubt, but the hype, fee (which isn’t his doing) and constant debate around him is ludicrously disproportionate to the player we see every week.

We’ve had numerous better players than him over the past 30 years and take away the fee and you’re left with a footnote in our playing history. If a younger fan in 20 years asks me what Pogba was like (seems unlikely), I’ll just shrug.

The ‘bat signal’ of a post with negativity in it will no doubt draw his acolytes but Ive been watching football and United for close to 40 years, many others even longer...I think I know what ‘great’ players look like and Pogba isn’t one of them IMO.

I hope he stays though and plays an important part of the team over the coming years...he’s a good player but very much a cog in a wheel. if he and fans can accept that and we get some other better players, I’m sure he can be part of a good team that challenges for trophies.

 

[GiddyUp]

Hey, go easy on Mrs P. She's only standing up for her lad, as any good mother would.

Spoiler: Clermontois

He posts like it's a Facebook comment section. One of the worst newbies I've ever come across. Even his replies to your comments are cringeworthy.

 

[murali_red]

The thing with him, he never really shows the desire to achieve his potential, rarely takes the game by scruff the neck or shows urgency. Looks like he is happy with what he's doing, thereby doesn't try that extra bit to elevate himself to greats. You expect Bruno levels of difference with Pogba, not put everything in place for him. If he has the drive and desire, everything will fall in place for him. He is senior enough to demand from his mates what he wants and expects to improve the team. The fire is missing most times. Even in the westham match where he is ridiculed by westham player for handball before halftime, you'd expect him to take personality, if not for the team who are a goal down.

 

[Clermontois]

He posts like it's a Facebook comment section. One of the worst newbies I've ever come across. Even his replies to your comments are cringeworthy.

The hypocrisy in your posts is the most cringeworthy thing I have seen on here, constantly accusing posters of the very thing you are doing.

Stick to the thread topic otherwise jog on.

I'll probably regret getting into that as I think point you make are little absurd, but here we go...


Playing in deep midfield, he is pressed by strikers. Playing further up he would be pressed by strikers, midfielders, wingers and possibly defenders, so no.


I have nothing against Pogba dribbling in opponents box, as I believe he's quite good at it. But dribbling in the middle of the park, with 3 opposition players on him - that is the problem.


Common sense tells me Bruno is better attacking midfielder. I agree he's being played out of position but that raises the question about how he fits our team currently.


It's equally important for all players, because every player has to defend. Just looking at this bolded bit makes me think like I am really talking to Paul!

Go back and view any of recent games and you will see that is not the case. Paul is regularly in the midst of four oppo players so unless teams play four strikers now then your point is moot.

I hope he continues to dribble to beat the press as we lack the support in midfield to beat it any other way.

Paul played there for 6 games but was easily more devastating scoring more open play goals in that short space of time so common sense would tell me he is better there as well as deep.

Again no, off the ball movement is less important the further back from the striker you go and your jibe about Paul I will let blow into obscurity.

 

[Feed Me]

Maguire has been arrested while on holiday in Greece, which goes to show how much the Pogba virus has spread.

 

[Feed Me]

Pogba was really good last night. Used his size to great affect and when we were on top it was mostly because he was dominating the midfield. He was failed by his defence.

Pretty much this. I do feel for PP at times, not least because he gets flak for doing his job well when his team mates very obviously let the side down.

 

[TsuWave]

Common sense tells me Bruno is better attacking midfielder.

How is this common sense? Bruno hasn’t shown the range or quality of passing Pogba has in multiple occasions. Pogba is also a better dribbler.

I like Bruno. A lot. He has improved us, and it could very well be that he’s a better attacking midfielder, I just don’t believe we have seen it yet.

Bruno’s stats are crazy inflated due to him being on penalty duty in a season in which we have broken records in terms of penalties awarded to us. Yes, you still have to convert them but it’s hardly the measure for who’s a better attacking midfielder.

His assists are often “poor quality” too in the sense that Martial, and at times Greenwood went and scored worldies from pretty mundane passes from Bruno.

there’s some examples in this video:

 

[Borys]

How is this common sense? Bruno hasn’t shown the range or quality of passing Pogba has in multiple occasions. Pogba is also a better dribbler.

I like Bruno. A lot. He has improved us, and it could very well be that he’s a better attacking midfielder, I just don’t believe we have seen it yet.

Pogba has much better long range passing than Bruno, but this doesn't matter that much as Bruno plays much higher up the pitch. I'd say they are pretty even on short to mid passing range.

Bruno has a much quicker footballing brain and general awareness is miles better than anyone from our team. His first touch is also significantly better than Pogba's. Dribbling, hard to say really.

Pogba might be a better midfielder, but give me Bruno in this attacking position every day of a week.

 

[AltiUn]

Mad that we have two genuinely class midfielders and all we can do is a year 10 Messi v Ronaldo debate between them. Happens every single time, last time Rashford v Martial was the hot topic.

 

[Borys]

Mad that we have two genuinely class midfielders and all we can do is a year 10 Messi v Ronaldo debate between them. Happens every single time, last time Rashford v Martial was the hot topic.

It makes sense to discuss two players which are best in same position on the pitch, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure that's not all we're doing anyway.

 

[AltiUn]

It makes sense to discuss two players which are best in same position on the pitch, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure that's not all we're doing anyway.

It's what you think you're doing, not what you're actually doing.

 

[TsuWave]

Pogba has much better long range passing than Bruno, but this doesn't matter that much as Bruno plays much higher up the pitch. I'd say they are pretty even on short to mid passing range.

Bruno has a much quicker footballing brain and general awareness is miles better than anyone from our team. His first touch is also significantly better than Pogba's. Dribbling, hard to say really.

Pogba might be a better midfielder, but give me Bruno in this attacking position every day of a week.

I don't know how anyone that has watched Bruno play can seriously suggest his passing is close to Pogba's Like it's OK to like a player, have favourites even, but Bruno regularly, and I mean regularly, fecks up easy passes to the point that it's confounding considering the ability he shows in other instances. He's a high risk/high reward player, but even still his passing completion rate is often in the 60s percentile wise.


this video is just a maddening recent example that came to mind

How do you quantify or justify the “quicker footballing brain” assertion?

Bruno being a better attacking midfielder than Pogba is yet to be seen, let alone “common sense“.

 

[Cassidy]

I don't know how anyone that has watched Bruno play can seriously suggest his passing is close to Pogba's Like it's OK to like a player, have favourites even, but Bruno regularly, and I mean regularly, fecks up easy passes to the point that it's confounding considering the ability he shows in other instances. He's a high risk/high reward player, but even still his passing accuracy is often in the 60s percentile wise.



How do you quantify or justify the “quicker footballing brain” assertion?

Bruno being a better attacking midfielder than Pogba is yet to be seen, let alone common sense.

Based off of a few months in the Prem? Pogba had a very similar run of form under Ole playing AM did he not?

 

[E-mal]

Pogba has much better long range passing than Bruno, but this doesn't matter that much as Bruno plays much higher up the pitch. I'd say they are pretty even on short to mid passing range.

Bruno has a much quicker footballing brain and general awareness is miles better than anyone from our team. His first touch is also significantly better than Pogba's. Dribbling, hard to say really.

Pogba might be a better midfielder, but give me Bruno in this attacking position every day of a week.

Pogba is a better passer and dribbler than Bruno, but the lather has more work ethic, better at set piece and takes more risk.
Generally Pogba is a better player and it's stupid to even suggest otherwise.