Seemed to be working well while he played there.....it's gone downhill since
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Seemed to be working well while he played there.....it's gone downhill since
Yet we all have a list of 3 players who would improve us.......basically when the team is winning it's impossible to claim they don't have an identity.......and when it's like it is now for us....it's the opposite. Wins determine everything.
Until the players around him are upgraded on, you won't see a dominant Pogba against teams like Barcelona because they're are a better team than us. His creativity would be such a weapon against any team if we had players that befit the behemoth that is Manchester United.
Said it in another thread the other day: initially under Ole, Pogba played a role that was very close to his old Juventus one. And he was brilliant, undoubtedly. However, it was against less than first class opposition. And it worked because Matic and Herrera played very well, with the former doing more "controlling" than he does when he's - well - shite (not to say average, as per his level at United) and the latter doing a fair impression of a top class box-to-box terrier.
But it didn't last, as we know. The question is what it will take to bring in players who can provide that kind of support consistently, over a longer period, and against any kind of opposition.
I’ve actually looked at the thread you are referencing and it says ‘favourite players’. What a surprise that people may feel more strongly about someone at the club now than someone they probably haven’t ever seen play. Just like why Ole has went up since the last poll. Not only is it meaningless, but you’re twisting the poll to suit your agenda against Pogba.
I’m quite certain even the most ardent Pogba fan thinks he’s been better for United than Denis Law was, but that wasn’t what the poll was about. Although I think you know that anyway.
His only claim to being world class is the fact that France won the World Cup and he played a big part in it.
A part that was overrated by many United fans but none the less he was instrumental.
France would have probably won it with him or without him though thats how good they are. With players like Mbappe,Greizmann,Kante etc.
Ironically they only really played one "World Class" team in Belgium.
Anyway he would definitely be class playing with better players.That being said he has a part to play in why we are a bit....well shit himself.
Hes languid,Slow,dilly dallies on the ball and cannot cope with players who press.
Needlessly turns over possesion and has the cheek to stroll back putting our defenders under extreme pressure. A Cm cannot do that.
Dont get me wrong I would keep him though because he has the potential to be a top top player so he definitely shouldnt be sold but he is NOT a player you build a team around
A part that was overrated by many United fans but none the less he was instrumental.
France would have probably won it with him or without him though thats how good they are. With players like Mbappe,Greizmann,Kante etc.
Ironically they only really played one "World Class" team in Belgium.
Anyway he would definitely be class playing with better players.That being said he has a part to play in why we are a bit....well shit himself.
Hes languid,Slow,dilly dallies on the ball and cannot cope with players who press.
Needlessly turns over possesion and has the cheek to stroll back putting our defenders under extreme pressure. A Cm cannot do that.
Dont get me wrong I would keep him though because he has the potential to be a top top player so he definitely shouldnt be sold but he is NOT a player you build a team around
Maybe pogba is my blind spot but I still see a player with more ability than the rest of squad combined.
Is he a natural leader? Absolutely not, we will need to find that elsewhere.
I also find myself questioning his application too often but he looks like the duracel bunny compared to martial.
Is he a natural leader? Absolutely not, we will need to find that elsewhere.
I also find myself questioning his application too often but he looks like the duracel bunny compared to martial.
The issue with Pogba is - he’s a fantastic creative player who isn’t a ‘Spine’ player.
Gerrard was a ‘Spine’ player but Pogba is not - someone who can carry a side on their back even with limited team mates.
He needs to be in a well structured side where he’s one of the stars but not the main star. The big character off the pitch but not the main character on it.
At United he’s being asked to do what is beyond his comfort zone IMO. Not to mention our attack is so inconsistent we are expecting him to be our match winner as well as game controller too.. the expectations on him are silly considering he’s a midfielder.
I actually think he’s grown as a player whilst being at United - he’s overall a better player this year then he was for France and us pre World Cup and I think he’s beginning to realise what is his best position etc but I just don’t think it’s going to work for him or us having him at the forefront of the side.
We are in need of a rebuild and need hard working dynamic technical players .. we can’t afford to indulge players and for me Pogba is too much hard work from a tactical perspective to fit into this current mess of a side that we have.
He’s an anarchist in terms of the way he plays and roams across the pitch - which is a strength in a side which is already well developed but in an ill disciplined and unfit side like ours - it just adds to the chaos and him being the star and big man of the side - he will bear the brunt of the criticism.
He’s ready to play at a top side and I think he will always be a touch lacksadaisical but he will not be exposed as much in a gifted and better set up side.
I think this relationship has run its course.
Gerrard was a ‘Spine’ player but Pogba is not - someone who can carry a side on their back even with limited team mates.
He needs to be in a well structured side where he’s one of the stars but not the main star. The big character off the pitch but not the main character on it.
At United he’s being asked to do what is beyond his comfort zone IMO. Not to mention our attack is so inconsistent we are expecting him to be our match winner as well as game controller too.. the expectations on him are silly considering he’s a midfielder.
I actually think he’s grown as a player whilst being at United - he’s overall a better player this year then he was for France and us pre World Cup and I think he’s beginning to realise what is his best position etc but I just don’t think it’s going to work for him or us having him at the forefront of the side.
We are in need of a rebuild and need hard working dynamic technical players .. we can’t afford to indulge players and for me Pogba is too much hard work from a tactical perspective to fit into this current mess of a side that we have.
He’s an anarchist in terms of the way he plays and roams across the pitch - which is a strength in a side which is already well developed but in an ill disciplined and unfit side like ours - it just adds to the chaos and him being the star and big man of the side - he will bear the brunt of the criticism.
He’s ready to play at a top side and I think he will always be a touch lacksadaisical but he will not be exposed as much in a gifted and better set up side.
I think this relationship has run its course.
His wasting prime years with us, next season will be his last. I can’t see him being patient when he could be in a side winning major honours.
Like others have mentioned he isn’t designed to be the key focal point of the team, he needs a strong support case to flourish.
He’ll move to a Barca/Madrid next year and become a Balon Dor prospect.
Like others have mentioned he isn’t designed to be the key focal point of the team, he needs a strong support case to flourish.
He’ll move to a Barca/Madrid next year and become a Balon Dor prospect.
Feck 'supporting' Pogba and get some quality midfielders in. Rodri or Partey from Atletico and Bruno Fernandes. Rabiot can come on a free but that's way too sensible of a signing for us.
Surprised (or not actually) how things have turned around him. Shame he didnt step up but so did no one else for too long. At the end of the day, we're much worse off without him that with him
Or you're just twisting it to suit your own agenda. Sad time, pal. I thought you were better than that
Then again, the underlined shows us something that is wrong with this place
Woefully inconsistent and incredibly frustrating yet again.
Pogba isn't our biggest problem but he is a problem.
When he plays well and wants to play, he looks really good. Way to often he might as well not be there and is a hindrance to the team as a whole.
I think Pogba runs our dressing room, sooner he is gone the better. He influences others and when he isn't happy, it spreads. Perfect for Madrid, not what utd needed when we signed him and not what we need now. 100mil would be a bargain for him!
Pogba isn't our biggest problem but he is a problem.
When he plays well and wants to play, he looks really good. Way to often he might as well not be there and is a hindrance to the team as a whole.
I think Pogba runs our dressing room, sooner he is gone the better. He influences others and when he isn't happy, it spreads. Perfect for Madrid, not what utd needed when we signed him and not what we need now. 100mil would be a bargain for him!
I honestly do not see him as the problem. I can see he was trying and wanting to do things but it was evident today that he literally had zero quality teammates today. sometimes I have criticised him for playing worse than our other CM but I remember he had the ball on the RW and no one moved for him. No FB overlap, RW was awol, ended up having to pass back to Scott. he has his faults clearly and needs to take responsibility for his own mistakes often but I saw something yesterday that our front 3 are pointless for him and FB provide zero outlet. That's 5/5 positions that he cannot rely on in attacking outlets.
No argument from me. I'd take that, sure.
There are two basic options: upgrade the midfield with Pogba in it - or replace him after a fashion. What's more realistic? Probably the latter. But it obviously depends on making some astute signings - and, not least, a clear idea about how this team should be built up, brick by brick, as it were.
Not just “somewhat pointless” it’s actively harmful to the team. When the opposition inevitably play that easy out ball the pressing players are trapped high up the pitch with wide open spaces behind them to be exploited. Was happening fecking constantly against West Ham at the weekend.
I’d be all about this. Granted, maybe Pogba’s ceiling is higher - but this midfield would be more efficient, on paper anyway.
I dont mind either. Keep Pogba and build proper midfield 3 or sell Pogba and go with a midfield 2 and no.10. Two more midfielders that look the real deal are Aouar and Ndombele, with Fekir ahead of them they have been very good.
The guy is a fantastic player but he's not fecking Messi that is a one man team. The only problem is that we can't be trusted to make astute signings.
Sorry but he was signed to make the difference in the big games for us and until this point he hasn't. He hasn't bossed a midfield battle against a top team, or at least not as far as I can remember. I'm not sure whether it's entirely him that's the issue, or lack of quality players around him, but more than likely a combination of the two. He wasted possession a lot last night, ran into trouble and then tried kicking out at Barca players a number of times.
If Madrid come in and offer 100M I would take that money and reinvest it.
If Madrid come in and offer 100M I would take that money and reinvest it.
Eriksen, B. Silva and Henderson have covered more distance this season. B. Silva has covered the most distance out of those names as of Feb 2019 and is the only one in the top ten overall for the league. United as a team are third bottom in the league for total distance covered, which is pretty poor. I also found out that Pogba averaged 10.88KM a game at the halfway point in his first season here, which was the highest at the club, more than Herrera and Mane at 10.15 a game. KDB was at 10.14, Dele Alli 10.36, Hazard 9.93, Eriksen 11.9 and Henderson 11.91.
10. A. Townsend- 278.6 KM in 26 games
9. Gylfi Sigurdsson- 280.9 in 27
8. James McArthur- 281.4 in 26
7. B. Silva- 281.9 in 26
6. M. Alonso- 284.3 in 25
5. W. Ndidi- 285.8 in 26
4. Jorginho- 289.9 in 25
3. Jack Cork (Burnely) 299.6 in 25
2. Luka Milivojevic 306.5 in 26
1. Kante- 306.7 in 26
On who?
If you look at Baxter's use of the word "ardent" it is clear what he/she meant. I believe it was a typo.Or you're just twisting it to suit your own agenda. Sad time, pal. I thought you were better than that
Then again, the underlined shows us something that is wrong with this place
It's not problem his skill, it's problem his behaviour and attitude when thing are not going the good way. Not a leader, this tackle yesterday on Arthur explains him the best, when things are going bad there's no turning point for him, he just drills the bottom, and frustrate himself and everybody around him.
I would certainly hope so...
Anyone saying Pogba done more for this club than or is better than Denis Law, is either on a WUM or plays too much FIFA or is 12
It was a typo, of course he’s not been a better player. I’m just saying that you’re using a poll which asked poster’s favourite players and not their opinion on who the club’s greatest players are. It’s not the same thing, and even then it’s hardly the most quantifiable survey ever done.
People keep repeating this. I ask this question.
How exactly is he supposed to step up? do you mean dribble the whole Barca team or score long range shots?
He tries to build up play but the team just isn't coherent. Our fullbacks last night were absolutely spineless and rarely stepped over the half way line.
Compare this to Barca with Alba and Roberto flying forward at ever opportunity. This gives the Barca midfield options.
They've got Coutinho/Messi moving around constantly looking for the ball, they've always got an option to link with.
Nobody here is claiming Pogba is faultless at times, yes he can hang onto it too long when under pressure, but that opens happens when there is 0 passing options.
Too many people use him as a source of frustration when we'd be so much worse without him.
Zidane stepped up for France in 2006
Keane stepped up in 1999 when United were absolutely floored and were getting battered.
They are the benchmark for club and country.
For the standard he is supposed to be setting, in your opinion he is world class, is he getting near either of those players?
Big resounding no I'm afraid! And you can shift the goalposts all you want, but it's undeniable
I'm not asking or demanding he be sold. In fact, the opposite but, I'm allowed vent my frustration and anger at someone who should be and could be doing more!
They both played in much better teams, this is my point. Teams have had bad games, but then they sort it out and can rise from the ashes.
This team is nowhere near as rounded as those, we don't have a platform against the very best to make that happen. We just have to face it right now we aren't close to the top teams, but with a few better additions we can get there.
Swap Alba for Young and that would make a huge difference already.
I've got no fecking idea right now
We have some many gaps to plug the list of names will be endlessThere’s not many great available midfielders out there to my knowledge. This is why despite Pogba underperforming again, he still has world class attributes that we need to get out on a regular basis. Selling him would be a mistake but he also needs to do more.
Not really.
Thuram was done
Barthez was shite
Gallas was entering meltdown mode
Viera was done
Malouda was average
Henry was entering the autumn of his career
And they had a very suspect coach
That leaves Ribery and Makelele...Zidane carried them on his own.
Again, it goes with the territory. Both Keane and Zidane were some of the best midfielders ever, for United and France. If Pogba is as amazing as he's made out to be, he is going to be compared to those two players regardless.
Keane almost saved Forrest alone in his last season with them, when he was 22 and Zidane, who was practically retired, nearly won a WC pretty much by himself.
In my eyes, Pogba needs to do more! There can be more excuses!
I am not for one moment saying sell him and I get the points been made about the quality around him but, he's supposed to be World Class....Show us! Arthur absolutely dominated him last night. That's not on!
This. It dawned on me lastnite that asking Pogba to make the magic happen in that team is asking the impossible.
He comes deep to collect the ball off Smalling/Young/Jones - all well below par if we genuinely want to complete.
He turns forward and sees the utterly ineffective Lingard, hot & cold Rashford, daydreaming - slow wakling Martial, a stationary overweight Lukaku flat on his heels pointing, a Sanchez who forgot how to football... what's he supposed to do!?
It's like asking Michaelangelo to creat a masterpiece and giving him a bucket of dirty crayons to do it with.
You can not build a team around Pogba, his attitude is an issue, he is still making the same silly mistakes in his game, as you have mentioned above, by the manager not pulling him up on it, it gives Martial, Linguard and Rashford a free rein to do the same.
Think about it for a minute, you have four players in your team who are so inconsistent, if this was a platoon in the army, you would be hard pressed to win many battles, as most of your time would be spent baby sitting.
It's never Pogba's fault or inadequacies. Messi is a Michelangelo...Pogba is barely a Neil Buchanan - outplayed by the likes of McTominay and Fred, who manage to impress despite far less natural talent and surrounded by 'dirty crayons'. 2 seasons ago it was 'Matic will unleash Pogba'...it didn't. Now it's 'surround him with world class talent'...just continuous excuse after excuse. Nowhere near as good as his hype and his acolytes claim.
Pogba doesn’t plug the gaps in midfield. He’s so indisciplined in a football sense and leaves us outnumbered. There’s an obvious talent there but I can’t see his worth other than a gamble as a maverick style footballer but it seems the modern day player has a duty to press and help maintain the shape of the team.
That just is not Pogba. Veratti would do the job brilliantly.
That just is not Pogba. Veratti would do the job brilliantly.
Yeah, the Michelangelo analogy doesn't quite work. My impression certainly is not that Pogba usually does everything right, only to have his efforts undermined by incompetent teammates. There's a very perceptible discrepancy between on-form and the opposite with him.
He gets frustrated when things aren't flowing, and his frustration tends to result in counterproductive decisions on his part - which is markedly more detrimental when he's playing in a deeper role. This has nothing to do with playing in a generally sub-par (compared to the best in Europe) team, having less than stellar teammates. It's the bottom level business again - it's no illusion that he tends to be positively crap when he's not on song.
He gets frustrated when things aren't flowing, and his frustration tends to result in counterproductive decisions on his part - which is markedly more detrimental when he's playing in a deeper role. This has nothing to do with playing in a generally sub-par (compared to the best in Europe) team, having less than stellar teammates. It's the bottom level business again - it's no illusion that he tends to be positively crap when he's not on song.
I can put this debate to bed easily.
Name me ANY player in this team other than POGBA and DE GEA that would attract a buy from the top 5 teams in the world........am waiting. At a long stretch Rashford maybe due to age and potential.
And that ladies and gentleman is a wrap. How can you expect 2 top players in a team to turn it into a trophy/title winning team? The answer is you cannot. POGBA and DE GEA cannot carry the remaining 8 or 9 players, which is what they are doing presently.
The issue isn't the players - if they were, why are all the big teams after them?????? Case closed. Changes need to be made beyond these players to provide them with a platform that is equal to their talent and ability.
Name me ANY player in this team other than POGBA and DE GEA that would attract a buy from the top 5 teams in the world........am waiting. At a long stretch Rashford maybe due to age and potential.
And that ladies and gentleman is a wrap. How can you expect 2 top players in a team to turn it into a trophy/title winning team? The answer is you cannot. POGBA and DE GEA cannot carry the remaining 8 or 9 players, which is what they are doing presently.
The issue isn't the players - if they were, why are all the big teams after them?????? Case closed. Changes need to be made beyond these players to provide them with a platform that is equal to their talent and ability.
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Not in terms of scoring goals, but make a presence, be visible and push his team mates. We all understand that he cant score solo goals from midfield or do everything himself, but on the mental level, he could have
Yep that's how I feel. So often the passes from defence are SO SLOW into the midfield that by the time they get the ball they're under pressure and can't turn. Pogba will try it though and sometimes it works, sometimes he gets tackled. Next time he should just pass backwards and play safe like everybody else, then give it to De Gea who will boot it forward.
Was awake till five o clock last night thinking about this. I am conflicted. Have seen him in games where he is brilliant. Then he has many games like last night where he looked just out of place.
Personally i think he was and is overhyped. Not saying he is a bad player. I just dont think he is as good as he was hyped up for and bought for. He is a 60 million pound MF. Not a 90 million pounds one. I think we he went to Juventus certain fans got it into their heads that we had lost a brilliant player and as such he was marketed as the one Ferguson let go. i dont think he was ever as good as the hype said he was. He is not a terrible player either.
If you are going to spunk a hundred million on a player, it should be an attacker. I dont think Pogba can live up to his price tag and that is a reason why he is targeted by people and pundits in the media. If we only got him for 40 million, there would be less drama.
Personally i think he was and is overhyped. Not saying he is a bad player. I just dont think he is as good as he was hyped up for and bought for. He is a 60 million pound MF. Not a 90 million pounds one. I think we he went to Juventus certain fans got it into their heads that we had lost a brilliant player and as such he was marketed as the one Ferguson let go. i dont think he was ever as good as the hype said he was. He is not a terrible player either.
If you are going to spunk a hundred million on a player, it should be an attacker. I dont think Pogba can live up to his price tag and that is a reason why he is targeted by people and pundits in the media. If we only got him for 40 million, there would be less drama.
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