Eriksen and Silva are feeding the two best strikers in the league. Pogba matches theirs feeding Lukaku,Rashford etc whilst playing half of season for the toxic one.
Best midfielder in the PL.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
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- Goals
- 16
- Assists
- 14
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
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Best midfielder in the PL.
Shhhh, your logic gets in the way of the Pogba bashing that goes on constantly around here. Don't screw up the best scapegoat this club has had in years.
This is why we shouldn't get rid of him. I think he needs a fair crack at the side with more quality alongside him.
Oh yes sorry I forgot to read the script. Let me try again.
Sell the lazy immature cnut, sick of the all excuses our fans make. Yet another big game he fails to deliver for the badge. Why can't he be more like City and Liverpool midfielders? We would've been fighting for leagues and champions league if he gave a care.
This would make sense if the team was better but this team can't string together 2 or 3 passes without things breaking down. When you are in a team playing that bad how are you supposed to improve?
I think he would be touted as one of the best in the world if we got him for 40 million. I think his price tag is what makes him look bad.
He still is the only passer/creative force and we are over dependant on him. It's like a one man team. We are expecting way too much of Pogba.
I've lost faith that Fred would add creativity. Time to buy someone like Neves and a proper attacking RB who can cross and we'll see some pressure off Pogba and return to top form.
We need to reduce some pressure off him allowing him to operate further upfront.
I've lost faith that Fred would add creativity. Time to buy someone like Neves and a proper attacking RB who can cross and we'll see some pressure off Pogba and return to top form.
We need to reduce some pressure off him allowing him to operate further upfront.
United has problems in all lines but Pogba is not part of it imo. Many of his passes would be assists with better strikers/wingers. The board should put all the money in signing a top front three. Get Griezmann and Joao Felix(both can play in many roles) and Sancho. Sell some players to balance the budget. A strong attack will give the club some time to address the other sectors of the squad.
Absolutely true. I recall in Ole's first few games Martial and Pogba were actively pressing with the likes of Lingard and Rashford. It resulted in our best performances in years.
I know everyone else instantly declared it Mourinho's fault but I was cautious as I don't believe Mourinho ever told players to sprint less or move less. Under Mourinho Lingard, McTominay, Herrera and Rashford all pressed; Lukaku, Pogba, Matic and Martial all did not which caused any pressing game to be actively harmed. Mourinho's fault was in buying these players of course.
That's where we're returning to now. The players who're either too lazy or not able to press for 50 games a season are reverting to type which is causing poor performances.
I think as a group of fans we need to decide what kind of football we want to play. My view is that modern game requires an aggressive press. I think all teams adopting this style have been successful far ahead of their investment.
The teams that have not moved forward (ourselves, Chelsea, Arsenal) are all miles behind in comparison with spend.
But, he's also someone who struggles to string two passes together a lot of times. He's just as big of an offender as any of them.
And then this notion that he's a leader...No, he's not! No one in that squad is!
It's genuinely disheartening
Ole comes in he's different player, ole get full time role, goes back to old pogba, I think he off , and after last few games won't miss him, but there's a top class player in him, but his ego, is letting him down.
Take a look at the Young thread. He's not escaping attention. I haven't looked at the De Gea thread, but I'd imagine people were complaining about that. But he's played at such a high level for such a long time, that he has credit in the bank.
You're right about two chances he created - that one you mention, and the incredible ball that Rashford failed to control later on. But other than that, just like the rest of the team, he was poor.
De Gea escapes the scrutiny that Pogba and others are subjected to. Even after he's been amongst the worst performers this season. If he had a fancy haircut or something maybe it would have been different.
People really think it's because of his haircut ffs
Childlike excuses.Unless Garth Crooks is on here, no cares about his hair
I think this is the thing. He is the most talented player in the team. I really don't think anyone can doubt that. His application is what drives people daft.
But he's the one player there who can make something happen out of nothing.
I mean, those 3 made the all star team of the WC, so I think you're kinda randomly making things up with parts of this post.
That's just lies. He hasn't played to his best this year. He's made a few big, high profile mistakes. He's also saved us on numerous occasions. Take a look at the stats. He has the 4th most saves in the league. None of the "top" clubs have keepers higher than him. Which goes to show how bad our defence has been, and how good he has been in general. His save % is 5th in the league.
Yes, he's had a down season by his lofty standards. But one of the worst performers? No. Jesus wept, no.
It's about race. Look at the language they use with Lukaku, Pogba or Martial vs Matic or Herrera. The mods could care less.
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Thuram was coming to the end, signed for Barcelona that summer and was 4th choice centre back
Viera was constantly getting injured and played feck all for Inter
Henry was up on 31 and was coming to the autumn of his career.
I'm just making things up.
Zidane wasn't that good at all and dragged no one to a WC final...
Zidane had one stand out game at that World Cup and it was against Brazil. He was then kept quiet by Costinha in the Semi v Portugal and France won due to a dodgy penalty won by a dive from Henry. Zidane was then pocketed by Gattusso in the final before he lost his cool and got sent off..Thuram was coming to the end, signed for Barcelona that summer and was 4th choice centre back
Viera was constantly getting injured and played feck all for Inter
Henry was up on 31 and was coming to the autumn of his career.
I'm just making things up.
Zidane wasn't that good at all and dragged no one to a WC final...
Zidane was also pretty average in the 98 World Cup until he scored two headers from set pieces in the final.. Euro 2000 was where Zidane was very good..
if he went to Madrid and finally looked the mythical player he is supposed to be, I don't think id care
First of all, this is a very good post. Well done. And I am firmly of the opinion that Pogba is an amazingly gifted player who should not be sold unless he is desperate to leave.
However, permit me to scrutinize a bit with an open mind here.
I have always argued that stats do not tell all the stories but if we were to stick to stats just for a minute, I think other numbers might help to put these impressive ones into proper perspective. I mean numbers that rate him in terms of dispossession and work rate. It would also be interesting to know how much his numbers spiked after Ole came in and how much they have dropped since Jose's departure atmosphere waned. This takes me to important non- stat issues that matter when I am valuing players. If he downed tools under Jose, picked up after he got Jose fired and is now having a drop in form again, how much of an influence did that have on other players? How much influence did that have on the team? How much did that impact on our current struggles to make top four? How much of an influence did his attitude have on other players in the dressing room?
These are non-stat issues that matter a lot because what ultimately counts is the team and the type of influence a player is having on the entire team. (This is why I would rather sell a great player to buy a less talented one if the latter will give the team more balance).
We also have to compare his output with his capability. I believe that based on talent alone, Pogba has the capacity to be mentioned in conversations on the midfield GOAT. I have been a football fan for a few decades. Frankly, I have only seen very few players like Pogba who possess the kind of balance he has between physicality and sheer footballing skills. It's a very, very rare combination. One thing everyone here seems to agree on is that Pogba is an immensely gifted player but he does not deliver consistently enough. So for me, while it is fine to compare him with other players, I like to consider his output viz a viz what I know he can deliver.
Having said all these, your point is brilliant: we shouldn't be seeking to sell such a player unless he is unwilling to play for us (and change mentally). I agree with this.
Pogba, imho, is a very talented player who does play with passion. Unfortunately that passion makes him frustrated as too many of his teammates are not in the same league in terms of technique.
I guess we will never know how good a player he will be for United until we can give him proper footballers with high levels of skill, vision and execution
I still hope he stays and Sanchez returns to the form he showed for so long at Arsenal.
We do need more consistency in wide areas, and reluctantly can almost believe Jose wanted to put this right by signing players like perisic and willian.
I'm hoping ole has some under the radar talents identified who will deliver from day one. But I am an optimist and put a bet on us beating Barca 3-1 last night
I guess we will never know how good a player he will be for United until we can give him proper footballers with high levels of skill, vision and execution
I still hope he stays and Sanchez returns to the form he showed for so long at Arsenal.
We do need more consistency in wide areas, and reluctantly can almost believe Jose wanted to put this right by signing players like perisic and willian.
I'm hoping ole has some under the radar talents identified who will deliver from day one. But I am an optimist and put a bet on us beating Barca 3-1 last night
So, they weren't good at that world cup? Despite making the all star team?Thuram was coming to the end, signed for Barcelona that summer and was 4th choice centre back
Viera was constantly getting injured and played feck all for Inter
Henry was up on 31 and was coming to the autumn of his career.
I'm just making things up.
Zidane wasn't that good at all and dragged no one to a WC final...
My friend who was the game last night said Pogba didn't even acknowledge the fans after the game, and was the only one. Can anyone confirm that? Bad if true.
If we don’t sell him now, it probably means we will have to give him more money, I’m not sure I could take that.
Good to see the dangleberry crew have braved their champions league exit hangover to come in and defend that performance like that. "Top post old chap! Yes you too!"
There is a strong argument that McTominay and Fred have outperformed him in the CL knockout stages. That should not happen but it did.
There is no question that they both provided the platform for Pogba to shine with their impressive performances. Pogba's performance over both legs has raised huge questions in the playing group going forward that need to be discussed in the harsh light of day. What we do to galvanize in behind this will be incredibly important over the next two years of Pogba's career. If we persist with him then it will have huge flow on effects to the rest of the squad. The whole attack will need to be re-shaped with additions and subtractions and the midfield will require emergency surgery to integrate new players and hit the ground running next year.
This is honestly a pretty big stage in our rebuild with Ole as the manager, I don't really expect any proper strategy from Woodward in terms of bringing in new players. I think the absolute distilled concentrate it can be dumbed down to is just bring in two players as close to Kante as you possibly can and try not to lose Herrera. Beyond that it still feels like it will be a roll the dice scenario of "move him here, move him there", "but he's still sulking and jogging its weird, he doesn't work with this midfield we need better midfield". Having this conversation really seems to smash the personal meltdown button for some users. I think if you translate that through to the fan perspective on what the club is doing it paints a pretty vivid picture implicating them in what has happened over the last few years. A hypothesis too far maybe.
does this "xyz players should not outperform abc in the CL knockout stages" thing apply to other teams/players or is it strictly a United/Pogba thing? as if Pogba is the first star player to be "outperformed" by their supporting cast in whatever tie. the whole point of having a team filled with quality is...you know what? nevermind.
When Paul Ince is the one talking sense regarding Pogba, I know the world has gone mad.
Oh the irony.If you can't see a problem with McTominay outperforming Pogba on the big stage then you are the one not talking sense. Pogba is basically better at everything than McTominay, he has supreme technical and physical gifts. It's gotten to a point where Pogba is the one letting others down not the other way around. You've also done the dishonest trick that a lot of defenders do, they act as if Pogba has one-off average games, no he has long stretches of average games.
If you can't see a problem with McTominay outperforming Pogba on the big stage then you are the one not talking sense. Pogba is basically better at everything than McTominay, he has supreme technical and physical gifts. It's gotten to a point where Pogba is the one letting others down not the other way around. You've also done the dishonest trick that a lot of defenders do, they act as if Pogba has one-off average games, no he has long stretches of average games.
it happens. players have drops in form. average players outshine star players in certain games. it happens.
Pogba carried this team during the unprecedented winning run under Ole. Pogba is more productive than 95% of central midfielders in the league. Mctominay and Fred had a decent showing in the first leg against Barca. all of a sudden "Pogba is the one letting others down". Every day its "we need more quality", today its "Mctominay and Fred should not be outperforming". Is it oochie wally wally or is it one mic?
you guys are ridiculous. buffoonery.
I honestly think he's Veron MK2
He's suited to a League like Serie A more than hustle and bustle of The English Premier League. In Spain without getting closed down etc he will do wonders.
It doesn't mean he's a bad player.. a lot of players couldn't hack the PL but are still considered great players.
He's suited to a League like Serie A more than hustle and bustle of The English Premier League. In Spain without getting closed down etc he will do wonders.
It doesn't mean he's a bad player.. a lot of players couldn't hack the PL but are still considered great players.
If you can't see a problem with McTominay outperforming Pogba on the big stage then you are the one not talking sense. Pogba is basically better at everything than McTominay, he has supreme technical and physical gifts. It's gotten to a point where Pogba is the one letting others down not the other way around. You've also done the dishonest trick that a lot of defenders do, they act as if Pogba has one-off average games, no he has long stretches of average games.
As good as Fred and McTominay have been, it’s daft to make that comparison. Pogba has still been the only creative force in the team.
Naturally Pogba is gonna try things that don’t come off because the onus is on him to make something happen.
Never mind the lack of movement and quality ahead of him. Our forwards have been letting the team down on the big stage. Along with Young and DDG of course.
Real watching him on the biggest stage and he makes sure he looks like he isn't worth what we'll ask for him.
Manc through and through.
Manc through and through.
I'm sorry, and I may get crucified for this, but I wouldn't mind if we sold him, at, all. When he's purring, oh my, he's unreal, but when he's not, he's ordinary. Now you could argue that he still offers a moment of brilliance, or draws attention to him, but other than that, he's only surreal when he's in the 'mood'. If he ends up turning it on more consistently, I have no issue eating my words. Not a United player. No qualms with Fergie's decision long ago.
I always do that for any player who leaves us. Pogba is a strange one for me, I see (like many fans) a truly world class talent but at the same time he infuriates me like no other. He defo needs movement to release his great passing ability as we've seen it time and time but at the same time some of his decision making is baffling. It's like there is no middle ground for him.
Pogba did his best to get sent off at one point. I think he was frustrated by the fact we gifted Barcelona their first two goals. Bigger picture though, you can't blame him for being frustrated and wanting out (if indeed he does) he was probably promised big names, lots of major trophies, big salary etc and so far none of those things have materialised going into his 4th season is it now?
If whoever could give such promises, that person needs to be fired immediately. Trophies have to be earned. No one has god given right to just win it. Hard work. Big salary. Hard work to prove oneself have improved to earn more. Big names. He is no head coach. We did sign names. All in all, this is bs negotiation.
Edit: If we promised Pogba anything than just stating our ambition, which we did with Mourinho project, then this club is screwed. Pogba is part of the problem. He is in no exempt walking out as innocent.
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