People still think he's the best midfielder in the world. 
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Instead of calling people all 'his defenders' why don't you try and see why someone might be feeling that way?
The most common being: everyone around him and especially the attackers are complete dimwits. They are actually low quality mid table players who, and I can't stress this enough, do NOT make runs. Let's have a look.
Lingard: he has no clue. Was moving around without actually making runs tonight.
Martial: we all know Martial. He needs Guardiola to teach him how to make a run. I've seen statues that move more than him.
Rashford: the only one you can say makes runs but even he doesn't make them as consistent as he should.
Now the whole reason for the forwards to make runs behind the defensive line is to stretch the game and play off the second player who comes running in to support the first player who made the run. So when your midfielder looks up, he see's atleast 2 people making a run trying to stretch the opposition defence. Now the midfielder has 3 options, either pass to either person making the run or recycle possession if he doesn't feel the pass is do-able. In the case of Pogba he looks up, he only has 1 real option which is to recycle the ball. But instead what he tries to do is to run Solo and take on players in the middle of the park. Taking on players is an inherently more riskier player than recycling possession but he has literally no other option if he wants the team to score. Due to a lack of options he tries to do it all.
Now let's compare to Messi in this very exact game. Let me start by saying I'm not saying Pogba's passing ability is as good as Messi or anything, I'm merely trying to bring up the point about options.
Coutinho, Suarez and Jordi Alba, unlike our forwards seem to have a brain or desire at the very least to stretch the opposition defence. They made countless runs, how many times did we see Smalling or Jones scrambling backwards trying to watch their back at who's getting in behind them? Mulitple times.
Now put yourself in Messi's shoes who was playing as the Number 10, you see at least 2 guys making runs and your 3rd option is to recycle the ball. The guys making the runs inherently pull the defenders out of shape which in turn gives Messi more space which is exactly what Barca wants. This wouldn't be possible without the runs being made in the first place.
Now, if you truly are comparing Pogba's ability to Messi's then yeh sure Pogba is disappointing. But if you're a rational person who understands that Messi level talent is Alien, the rest of us humans play at a lower level. Then you gotta ask yourself are you asking a talented but ultimately human, midfielder to win you games single handedly while he has absolutely no support around him? That is the bottom line.
Another aspect I want to mention so you understand that everyone can also see that Pogba's shoulders slump when he knows the opposition are just better than Utd. I mean I get it, that rubs me the wrong way sometimes but again put yourself in his shoes, your team mates are mid table level and you're the only world class player. Ofcourse you're going to get dejected and wonder why you're in that position in the first place. If Pog truly feels like that and his heart isn't in it then I say we let him leave because at this very stage in our club's history, we need fighters who will fight even when we are outclassed. Alternatively the less probable thing is fill the team with Talent and coach them properly around Pogba but chances of that with Woodward in charge are slim.
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Almost every creative moment* in both legs came from him. He wasn't great but was the only player who occasionally looked like he could do something at this level.
*3 I can recall, all for Rashford - slide rule pass at OT which Rashford couldn't connect with, the shot off the bar, and long ball over the top which he miscontrolled.
*3 I can recall, all for Rashford - slide rule pass at OT which Rashford couldn't connect with, the shot off the bar, and long ball over the top which he miscontrolled.
If rashford buries those chances Pogba is a genius.
Anyway,
Say we sell him.
Who will sign to fill the void? Who signs to play Europa and to have partners like Fred and Scott?
Do you think these young and talented midfielders would want to play here?
A superstar, world cup winning, serie a winning player still in his prime leaving would be a disaster and set us back even further.
Anyway,
Say we sell him.
Who will sign to fill the void? Who signs to play Europa and to have partners like Fred and Scott?
Do you think these young and talented midfielders would want to play here?
A superstar, world cup winning, serie a winning player still in his prime leaving would be a disaster and set us back even further.
The sad fact is Pogba's everything that Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Silva, Silva and dare I say Milner, Henderson and the rest of those lot aren't. While there's blindingly obvious varying degrees of technical ability amongst the players I've just mentioned what they all have in common is that they're all hard working, they're not players who crave the limelight and they're players that seemingly have 100% dedication to football
Pogba's a social media footballer, a YouTube highlight reel and as such a shirt selling commercial asset
On his day excellent, in the right team his glaringly obvious flaws are hidden, for us trying to build a team around him though it appears to be something destined to fail
Pogba's a social media footballer, a YouTube highlight reel and as such a shirt selling commercial asset
On his day excellent, in the right team his glaringly obvious flaws are hidden, for us trying to build a team around him though it appears to be something destined to fail
Oh please, anybody could shine in an 'elite' team. Pogba is not world class, far from it. He is a hype job, and we all bought into it. The problem is, if we want to start competing again, we have to move on from the Pogba nonsense. I'd sell him in a heart beat and buy a player that actually wants to put a shift in, and a player who is not more interested in instagram than what he is getting paid to do.
Our only threatening player today yet the Caf hate campaign continues.
Typical.
Typical.
Threatening? The amount of times he got bounced off the ball because he was trying to make HIMSELF look good by peeing about with the ball, instead of providing the simple passes required was all to see. I didn't even realise he was on the pitch for most of the game. He made a couple of decent passes in 90 minutes, whereas you get Fred, who worked his socks off for the team.
I don't think Pogba even broke a sweat today, he is a lazy fecker.
After tonight, pretty much this. The Dance Dance Revolution footballer.
It's worrying that he takes many touched on the ball to move on the play and that he doesn't work as hard as other midfielders in our squad. McTominay, Fred, Herrera, Matic all run about 10-20% more than Pogba in a match. He's got the skill set to do pretty much everything but he just doesn't do it. He is our best player but he should be quite clearly our best player and be one of the best players in the world which he's not close to being and that's frustrating.
He's a luxury player in a sense that he produces his best moments when there are other world class players around him as in with Juve and France. There's only so much one world class player can do when playing alongside league one peasants like Young. I doubt we'd be much better have we had Messi in our team instead of Pogba.
Lets face it, Pogba will never please some people. He's been the best midfielder in England this season, even in a bad season (well maybe this is our true level) he's been more productive than midfielders like Eriksen, Kevin De Bruyne and a slew of other opposition players who can never do any wrong even in the eyes of United supporters. Those players have a better cast of teammates around them while Pogba for the most part has had a slightly above average fan favorite who 'plays with his heart' and another aging midfielder who looks more immobile with each game he plays. These players wouldn't get on the bench for most of our PL rivals.
He's deemed lazy, uninterested, rubbish, a donkey, a dancer and social media player every time things don't go right for the team or when he actually has a stinker which can happen to any player. If I were him I'd be looking at my options, he's getting into his prime years but this United team is probably 3 maybe even 4 years away from being real challengers. The lazy remarks come off to me as casual racism when we have stats that show that Pogba has covered more blades of grass per 90 minutes than most of the squad.
I don't remember a single player in our modern era that keeps letting his defenders down again and again and again and they keep excusing him again and again and again. They will keep defending him and he will keep letting them down till he finally and inevitably leaves. Some will get tired of being let down by him at some point though, I'm sure of it.
I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that some of the criticism of Pogba seems eerily similar to the stick Balotelli endured over the years. Despite the fact that he’s a vastly superior player and certainly a less controversial personality.
I thought he put in a captain’s performance against West Ham.
Yet the vast majority here just perpetuated the same old narrative after the match.
The only footballer in the team yet the majority of the fans want him out. Crazy.
But yeah for his career, he should leave. I wonder if he can find a better club because apparently, he isn't good enough...
It would be funny if he goes to Madrid and shine while the bums lauded by the CAF are still here next season fighting for a top 4 spot...
Maybe he isn't the problem... he wasn't there when Moyes or Van Gaal were here... but a lot of frauds lauded by the CAF were there...funny.
But yeah for his career, he should leave. I wonder if he can find a better club because apparently, he isn't good enough...
It would be funny if he goes to Madrid and shine while the bums lauded by the CAF are still here next season fighting for a top 4 spot...
Maybe he isn't the problem... he wasn't there when Moyes or Van Gaal were here... but a lot of frauds lauded by the CAF were there...funny.
If he wants to leave we should probably sell him. I still rate him very highly.
Pulled that right out of your a**, didn't you?
Asking for a consistent 7/10 or more performance is not the same as "wanting him out"
Best Fraud ever.
Building a team around someone is just nonsense that is always said around here. I wouldn't doubt if I said that in the past btw
.Suppose we buy de Ligt and Sancho. Are we now building around who? Sancho who would cost more? De Ligt who would be as expensive as van dijk? Is buying a midfielder who compliments Pogba, building around Pogba? I don't think so.
So we sell Pogba, and then what? We buy 2 players in his place? So we manage to get 1 more player out of the fee and he's not a guarantee to be a hit going by our past transfer history. It's an absurd strategy for where we're at and doesn't really change much. We still need to spend 250mil after those next 2 players that fill up Pogba's place. We're no better off.
And I would suggest that we try and spend that money, and fill in our youngsters into the squad over our veterans. That way we limit the transfer spending and keep the wages as low as we can. A strategy of selling Pogba is nonsense. Whether you like it or not, he has pull and if we want to get out of this mess we need him. Imagine selling him and trying to lure in players to play with McTominay, Jones, and Young. Not exactly a sound strategy to sell to potential players who want to go on and win things.
We need to get rid of Jones, Lukaku, Young, Darmian, Rojo, Mata, Valencia, and start transitioning towards integrating Tuanzebe, Greenwood, Gomes, Garner, O'Connor, and Laird. If de Gea really wants to leave, we need to transition to Romero and Dean Henderson. Cut the wages so that Pogba's transfer fee that you all moan about is no longer a problem.
People slag off genuine world class players like Modric when they have a poor game. But when Pogba has a bad game theres always an excuse.
Building a team around someone is just nonsense that is always said around here. I wouldn't doubt if I said that in the past btw
Suppose we buy de Ligt and Sancho. Are we now building around who? Sancho who would cost more? De Ligt who would be as expensive as van dijk? Is buying a midfielder who compliments Pogba, building around Pogba? I don't think so.
So we sell Pogba, and then what? We buy 2 players in his place? So we manage to get 1 more player out of the fee and he's not a guarantee to be a hit going by our past transfer history. It's an absurd strategy for where we're at and doesn't really change much. We still need to spend 250mil after those next 2 players that fill up Pogba's place. We're no better off.
And I would suggest that we try and spend that money, and fill in our youngsters into the squad over our veterans. That way we limit the transfer spending and keep the wages as low as we can. A strategy of selling Pogba is nonsense. Whether you like it or not, he has pull and if we want to get out of this mess we need him. Imagine selling him and trying to lure in players to play with McTominay, Jones, and Young. Not exactly a sound strategy to sell to potential players who want to go on and win things.
Except that's your manager's ideas. He said previously that the team should be built on him.
https://t.guardian.ng/sport/were-looking-to-build-team-around-pogba-says-solskjaer/
Regarding the other paragraphs, how are you measuring transfers exactly?
Let's say selling Pogba for 150m, adding some money on it then paying 250m on cheaper but effective, working and functional players that don't need special requirements to perform with less net spend is better than having an inconsistent player who performs in patches and needs 200-250m from scratch to build an entire midfield and offense to cover for him when he's not in the mood (so actually not solving the problem, just covering for it) ?
It's not dumb per second. It actually feels pretty logical for me once you think about it from football aspect not just collecting as much stars as possible. Football teams aren't gallery. It's about building a functional team. Somethng we forgot about post SAF. Liverpool are about to the win the league with a midfield and full team that doesn't have a bigger name than Pogba, including Milner and Henderson . It's about having a functional side, not as many inconsistent big stars names as possible to make the lineup looks good even though it stinks on the pitch.
The reality is everything point to both Pogba and United being terrible marriage. He wants a full world class team as Juve and France to cover for his inconsistency while however funds we have we will never afford him that in recent future.
If we are a real football club and Madrid came with 150m offer, sell and generate enough funds to reinforce the entire squad. This is far better than keeping a player that's a big tactical headache.
Feeling like Pogba is the one who is dragging us out from our situation is nonsense. He is the player you add to a full team for more quality, not to depend on him to elevate you Whatever you like it or not, that's the reality. His career will look better at a club covering for his deficiency but at United, by the time we give him a full class team he will be at his 30s.
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You’re having a laugh. Eriksen, David Silva and Bernardo Silva have been better. I’d even say the likes of Milner and Henderson have been better than him this season.
The likes of Pirlo, Marchisio, Tevez carried Pogba.
Deluded
This
Better how? They play with better players than Pogba does at United in free flowing teams but have they been more productive this season? These stats are based on all competitions.
Eriksen 12 goals 16 assists 28 goals overall
David Silva 9 goals 8 assists 17 goals
Bernado Silva 12 goals 8 assists 20 goals
Pogba 16 goals 11 assists 27 goals
Care to elaborate more beyond a thick one word response?
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This was a few months into the PL season, and his work rate shot up in that initial run of wins when Solskjaer took over. I also don't think any other player at United has covered more ground in a single match than Pogba did against Newcastle in that 3-2 comeback win.
You’re the thicko here if you think Pogba has been the most productive midfielder in the English game, by counting the number of penalties he’s scored and ignoring the constant no-shows he pulls off at the biggest games.
PSG, Barcelona x2, Juventus x2, Valencia x2, Man city, Arsenal, Wolves x2,
Spurs at home, West Ham away these are some of the games the best midfielder in the English football hasn’t showed up at all. I guess he scored a couple of penalties against West Ham, Cardiff and Young Boys to pad his stats so everything is grand.
I hope we sell him so we can enjoy the sheer technique and sublime passing of Matic Mctominay and Fred 24/7. I am sure Real Madrid would love to take him away from us and considering how the mighty has fallen he'll be silly not to move there.
No, let’s placate him and give him £500k a week to reward his consistently world class performances he’s put for United week in and week out...
Only a dumbass who knows nothing about football would discount penalties in this manner. Do those other midfielders never take penalties? Does it matter that Ronaldo has scored a shit ton of penalties in his career? It was his job to dispatch them. The fact is Pogba has outscored all those players and only Eriksen has more assists. Eriksen has contributed towards one more goal than Pogba.
This!
I am not saying that. However, Pogba is an attacking midfielder and he needs to be adequately backed. Scholes became the best midfielder of his generation but people seem to forget that had Keane or Carrick at his back with Giggs & Ronaldo/Beckham at his side.
But don't worry, if we sell him there will be takers. Good luck finding takers for the 'loyal servants' though. Hopefully China can step up again.
People on here voted for him ahead of Denis Law as the best United player.
Says it all
Says it all
Another underwhelming big game from him, nothing new.
If we had around 25-30 big games since he came here, I'd say in around 6-7 he was decent(by decent being last night's game), 3 or 4 very good world class performances, and in rest of them he was one of our worst players.
If we had around 25-30 big games since he came here, I'd say in around 6-7 he was decent(by decent being last night's game), 3 or 4 very good world class performances, and in rest of them he was one of our worst players.
1. It's nonsense. Building the best team is the ultimate goal. How exactly are we building around Pogba if we buy better midfielders? That's the goal regardless as we want to get to the top. Buying someone like Sancho or De Ligt is building around Pogba too? What always irks me about this talking point is that it's always Pogba's negative aspects that get highlighted as needing to be complimented as opposed to what Pogba does for the other midfielders. Remove Pogba and now McTominay and Fred don't look as good because they now have more of a responsibility to create. Some of you take for granted just how good Pogba is at doing that, especially in this side that is inept in in moving. Even today in this awful match he produced two world class passes that put Rashford through.
I'll buy the building around X player once we have a great team where it's clear we sacrifice for a player. For example, Ronaldo not having to track back, and getting further forward than the striker. I'll even buy this whole narrative if we buy a player like Kante and another work horse as that would be the best evidence for that. There is currently none though and we need quality regardless if Pogba is here or not.
2. No that is not reality. You keep scapegoating Pogba. It's fine to say Pogba didn't do well. It's another to say that he hasn't been a top 3 player for us this entire season. I would say top 2 actually. The fact that you want to get rid of a player that has clearly been one of our two best players is just you showing your distaste for Pogba. Why on earth would you want rid of that instead of adding to him so that he moves down to 4th or 5th best player? It's just so backwards once you stop and think about it. "Jones, Smalling, Martial, Rashford, Fred, McTominay, Herrera, Matic, Mata, etc... have all been worse than Pogba. I know, let's sell Pogba first to get better!" Nah, I'm not having that.
3. No we would not generate enough funds to reinforce the entire squad. You would need a replacement for Pogba and you would reinforce the entire squad with that left over money. Still not close to being enough.
4. Who said Pogba is dragging us out of our situation? He would be a tremendous help though. Nothing is dragging us out apart from top 4 and money spent towards building the next great United side. There's probably a lot more footballers sold on the idea that United will be back to the top with Pogba, than without Pogba. I'm confident of that. We already have many people in here moaning how the best talents won't choose us and is why we should give up on someone like de Ligt. Selling players like Pogba and de Gea would make the rebound even harder. We're not Juve who are already at the top with top class players. We're awful right now.
But hey, if Pogba forces us to sell him, then we'll have to make do. Doesn't mean I prefer that method though.
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It's clear that being the penalty taker would pad his stats - he's scored 8 fecking penalties (7 in the league) so his numbers are grossly inflated if you want to normalize contributions and compare like for like. And he's missed 3 penalties out 10 in the league (70% conversion is pretty lame), so in any other team he would have not been taking penalties in the first place. Kane is 4/4 at Spurs in the league for example, 6/6 in all comps.
Anyways, carry on - you seem to have a keen footballing eye.
The biggest problem is that we fundamentally can't play a quick pressing game with Pogba (and Martial) in the team.
There were half a dozen occasions yesterday where McTominay, Rashford and Lingard had pressed high and "penned" in the Barcelona back line. The problem was that Martial and Pogba were lackadaisically jogging around woth no real purpose. Therefore there was always an out ball for Pique, Ter Stegan, Alba etc making any pressing from the others somewhat pointless.
Likewise if we want to adopt a fast paced attack we can't have two players who slow the game down so intentionally almost every time they're in possession.
Personally I think since Fergie left we've had the flawed policy of merely buying players, whereas Klopp and Guardiola have been building a team.
I'd trade Pogba and Martial for Bernardo Silva and Mane in a second. Both were far less expensive but they actually suit the modern game.
Likewise going into this Summer if I we get Casemiro, Neves and Eriksen for Pogba and Martial I think we'd have less talented individuals but a much better team.
There were half a dozen occasions yesterday where McTominay, Rashford and Lingard had pressed high and "penned" in the Barcelona back line. The problem was that Martial and Pogba were lackadaisically jogging around woth no real purpose. Therefore there was always an out ball for Pique, Ter Stegan, Alba etc making any pressing from the others somewhat pointless.
Likewise if we want to adopt a fast paced attack we can't have two players who slow the game down so intentionally almost every time they're in possession.
Personally I think since Fergie left we've had the flawed policy of merely buying players, whereas Klopp and Guardiola have been building a team.
I'd trade Pogba and Martial for Bernardo Silva and Mane in a second. Both were far less expensive but they actually suit the modern game.
Likewise going into this Summer if I we get Casemiro, Neves and Eriksen for Pogba and Martial I think we'd have less talented individuals but a much better team.
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