Deffo appreciate the physicality more when you're near the front too I think. You realise how much some of the 50/50s actually clatter etc. Which sounds daft, because I've played football plenty and been to loads of games, but when it's on the tv everything looks different. Looks more glamorous in general and like nothing hurts unless it's a leg breaker. Almost like a different game to me. In person I realise it's just a guy in his 20s running around with a football like I do, just way better at it. I find it quite a strange contrast.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Goals
- 16
- Assists
- 14
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
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Deffo appreciate the physicality more when you're near the front too I think. You realise how much some of the 50/50s actually clatter etc. Which sounds daft, because I've played football plenty and been to loads of games, but when it's on the tv everything looks different. Looks more glamorous in general and like nothing hurts unless it's a leg breaker. Almost like a different game to me. In person I realise it's just a guy in his 20s running around with a football like I do, just way better at it. I find it quite a strange contrast.
On the ball Pogba can easily play in a deeper midfield role. That has never been the issue, it is his willingness to do the boring defensive work, his concentration, positional discipline, all the other small things that make playing the role difficult. He can do it, has done it but in short spells, or one off games, just doesn't suit his temperament. Turning Pogba into a more orthodox midfielder is an understandable dream, there are very few who can match his combination of technical excellence, imagination and courage on the ball, and physical gifts, it looks like a dominant force in a key position. Adding goals to his game had made the switch less imperative, if he was only scoring 7-10 goals a season then it is harder to justify giving him a free role, but 18-25? That production makes the argument for him.
Swap him for Dembele+Coutinho if he wants to leave.
Swap him for Dembele+Coutinho if he wants to leave.
100% I know exactly what you mean, I had a season ticket in the lower west stand and used to sit very close to the pitch. It somehow becomes more real. You notice every miss kick, tackle, the way the ball moves...it becomes more real somehow. I loved watching players without the ball, you don't really realise what players like Chicharito and Owen do before they actually receive the ball until you see it live.
A lot of ridiculous posts in here claiming he deserves better when over the last 2.5 years he's often been a key reason for our underperforming. Often in large matches he's gone missing and he's still fundamentally inconsistent despite now being 26.
On the flip side he's also been a key part of our performances since Ole has taken over and that's what you'd expect. Given his talent he should be someone who brings other players around him up a level, as he has with Rashford and our other midfielders these last 10 weeks.
Let's not forget he's currently rated 6.2 average this season behind Herrera, Shaw, De Gea & Lindelof. Six or seven 8 or 9/10 performances won't average out 20 six or under ones.
The point is if he keeps up this level then he will be part of a team capable of winning titles. If he doesn't then he won't, and he'll be one of the key reasons why. He has no excuses now, the manager is talking him up and has put full faith in him. Let's see what happens.
On the flip side he's also been a key part of our performances since Ole has taken over and that's what you'd expect. Given his talent he should be someone who brings other players around him up a level, as he has with Rashford and our other midfielders these last 10 weeks.
Let's not forget he's currently rated 6.2 average this season behind Herrera, Shaw, De Gea & Lindelof. Six or seven 8 or 9/10 performances won't average out 20 six or under ones.
The point is if he keeps up this level then he will be part of a team capable of winning titles. If he doesn't then he won't, and he'll be one of the key reasons why. He has no excuses now, the manager is talking him up and has put full faith in him. Let's see what happens.
I agree, I don't like this idea that Pogba 'deserves' to play with better players. No one has a right to be untouchable. We should be upgrading the team with better players to challenge, not because we need to 'get the best out of Pogba'. He's not Ronaldo or Messi, so surrounding him with players that let him do whatever he wants won't work.
Pogba is a great player as part of a well functioning team. He has been a great attacking midfielder under Ole so we have that position sorted. Let's sort out other positions.
A better season? Of course. That's obviously only because Pogba spent the first 18 weeks of the season primarily sulking, putting in unprofessional performances and generally being impossible to manage.
It's easy to forget games like So'ton earlier in the season though where he was an absolute disgrace.
Shaw and Hererra have arguably been better even after Ole took over. More consistent, definitely. Pogba’s hit much greater heights but has had some real stinkers too. Story of his United career really.
By far our best player. Too good to be in this squad tbf. I can see him go to Madrid and plays with WC players. He doesn't deserve to waste his time here being the scapegoat while average players like Herrera and Shaw are lauded.
I can see him become a ballon d'or under Zidane
I can see him become a ballon d'or under Zidane
herrera and Shaw better seasons than Paul 
Jesus. I don't even disagree that he's our best player. But Jesus...
What's so funny about it?herrera and Shaw better seasons than Paul
What a car crash of a post.
So when he plays great it's thanks to him and when he's poor it's time to shite on his teammates even though they were the same teammates who were playing with him when he was performing great.
Makes sense.
Makes sense.
Really, what a pathetic over exaggeration.
Apparently it's easier to forget performances like :-
Leicester, Burnley, Young Boys, Watford, Newcastle, Chelsea, Everton, Bournemouth even before the change of manager.
If anyone can seriously tell me we'd be in with a chance of top four without Pogba's contribution this season, the. You've got a serious agenda.
Shaw and Herrera ? I like them both....but Shaw has been disappointing overall after a good start, he's had some good solid games but nothing spectacular. Herrera has been in and out and inconsistent
Why is this myth still going around?
At the start of the season Pogba was playing very well. He and Shaw were easily our two best players, indeed probably our only two who were playing well. Then Pogba's form (and Shaw's for that matter) dropped off and he had a poor period. That poor period did include one absolutely terrible game which bordered on unprofessional, but otherwise was no worse than pretty much all our other players. Indeed it was still quite a bit better than some of our other players such as Lukaku and Matic.
Then we had a period where Pogba came back into form, and he and Martial were basically single-handedly dragging us to victories and likely keeping Mourinho in a job. The two of them were performing miles better than any of our other players at the time. Then his form dropped off again and he had another poor period. Once again that did include one disgustingly bad match, but otherwise was no worse than everyone else.
In short, he had two good periods and two poor periods before Ole took over. Inconsistent certainly, but despite what the media and some on here try to make out, he was in no way poor for that entire time. The sad thing is that even with that inconsistency he had been arguably our best player up to that point, as the two good periods was more than any other player in the squad had had. Shaw? He had a good start to the season, but had been decidedly average for the rest of it. Herrera? In the 25 matches that we had this season under Mourinho, I believe Herrera only started eight matches and completed the full 90 minutes a grand total of three times.
I find it truly strange how purported Pogba fans can countenance believing he's been anything but awful for the first 2.5 years on the whole before Ole took over. They must believe if he's played well thus far that his limitations are similar to Jordan Henderson, rather than potentiality one of the greatest midfield talents to ever play the game. I think people only realistically fall into three categories:
1) You believe Pogba isn't a great player and his performances so far are indicative of his talent. I.e. decent in parts, great occasionally, but generally underwhelming.
2) You believe Pogba is a good player who's played inconsistently but quite well under difficult circumstances given his age. However he is merely a very good but not truly great talent
3) Pogba is a world class talent who through both circumstance and mental / professional amateurism isn't where he should be. His talent should have him pulling his team into the upper echelons, rather than sulking that they aren't there.
I'm a huge Pogba fan but I'm aware I can't have my cake and eat it. I can't believe he's a great midfielder but also turn a blind eye to numerous 3/10 performances. I cant believe he's a great midfielder but then watch other lesser midfielders bully him into non-existance. I can't believe hes a great midfielder but think he needs a 10/10 number 6 and a 10/10 number 8 performance next to him for him to function.
All I'd say is let's watch the next 12 months because they will answer most question in my view . With his contract situation he's going nowhere and he has the purest opportunity to prove whether he's Quaresma or Ronaldo. Bearing in mind he's now 26.
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Think he has already surpassed the Quaresma benchmark mate, based off his career so far, trophies, performances and awards. Bit extreme to put him amongst Quaresma when he was regarded one of the best in Serie A and was a stand out in the World Cup. He has already been regarded one of the best in the world in certain seasons. This is a crazy comparison. More like does he want to me a Riquelme or a Zidane?
He's not a player that actually does the CM role. He focuses on attacking only, he cannot run the midfield or defend. So he's always going to be a player fans love and criticize. He's flashy but goes missing when we need to get control of midfield.
Shaw you could argue, but Herrera's only come good in the second half of the season.
Despite Pogba being dropped, he was still our best player under Mourinho, in my opinion.
Nonsense. Utter nonsense.
Such a random comparison, a first for everything on the caf
If Madrid want him then, they can pay £250 million for him. feck them.
I will reject all cash offers, even in excess of 200mil. As much as I rate Pogba, I would do a deal if it includes Varane & Casemiro. That would be a fair deal for both sides. Then splash our transfer budget on Coutinho to replace Pogba’s creativity alongside Sancho, while rid of Rojo & Jones.
I agree with you here.Whilst its harsh to a degree because there are days he does the CM role; there are more where we as a team feel like we could do with more in the centre.
I like Pogba - but he reminds me of Yaya Toure. On his day he can be untouchable but on other days you feel like he doesn't full click in with the rest of the team as midfielder.
Hopefully his 'prime' is doing just that.
fully agree.
A much better comparison I agree!
The nonsense posted here about Pogba... Jeez. Same as Ronaldo when he was here about Rooney being better etc. I could see from the start Ronnie was far superior but fans easily fooled by hard work.
If anybody really thinks Herrera or Shaw has been better take each out of the team would we miss either or Pogba more?. Pogba missing is the one guy we would drop way more points if missing than anybody else. Just look at those arsenal/Liverpool games when he was on the bench. Been the best player in the league since Ole took over if you consider assists/goals, the metric used to judge any other attacking player except Pogba.
The third option is the closest.
Pogba is obviously a world class talent. He has the potential to be one of the best midfielders of all time. However one of the most important things needed to reach the top level is consistency, and that is something he has shown absolutely none of. He can be one of the best players on the planet for a month or so, and then the next month he'll be decidedly poor with the occasional match thrown in where he is absolutely atrocious.
Part of it is obviously the situation surrounding him. The manager blatantly mismanaging our entire team, both on the field and off it, creating a situation where literally not a single player in our entire squad (bar our goalkeeper) was able to show any consistency at all. Poor tactics, poor formations, poor player selection, etc. That hurts consistency both directly and indirectly (by hurting confidence and causing players to be unhappy; doesn't matter what job you are in but if you are unconfident and unhappy your performances will suffer). Quite a few players around him not being good enough to pull their weight also hurts. Him being relied on to pretty much single-handedly control the team around and create the goal scoring chances himself doesn't help (almost all top teams will share that duty amongst at least two players, often more).
However, part of it is Pogba himself. Even with those excuses that I listed above which would certainly explain some inconsistency, he has taken it too far at times. There are definite questions about his mental strength, as when he really puts his mind to it he can do pretty much anything, but too often when things aren't going well he does end up sulking with an almost 'woe-is-me' attitude on the pitch. Instead of rolling up his socks and working his arse off for the team (which he is quite capable of doing when he really wants to), he just drifts around and plays far too individualistically. He doesn't show the hunger and drive to minimise that inconsistency.
Some people seem to focus almost entirely on the good aspects of him and ignore the negatives, showing a definite bias towards him. Equally, some seem to focus entirely on the negative and ignore all the good stuff he has done, and those people are showing an equal amount of bias. The media are often guilty of this, as are you with your claim of him being awful for the 2.5 years under Mourinho. He has been inconsistent as all hell, and has had many periods of poor form during that time. But he has had just as many, if not more, good periods where he has been quite obviously a class above pretty much anyone else in our team. The sad thing is that even with that inconsistency he has been arguably our best outfield player during his time with Mourinho. Not because he has been amazing, because he certainly hasn't. But at least he has had fantastic periods. Nobody else on the team has even had that. Pretty much everybody else has been just as inconsistent, but their highs haven't been as good.
I have no doubt that with a better team and better tactics around him Pogba will improve his consistency. Hopefully we will see that under Ole. The big question mark though is whether he will improve his consistency enough to truly take that step up, both individually and to drive the team. Hopefully he can, but like I said that is the question mark that is hanging over him.
A very good summary.
Most people believe his performances for France show what he can do with better players around him, a belief that has some truth to it.
However I also believe he acts far more mature for France. I rarely see him making the childish decisions he can make when not performing well at United. For example I can't recall a situation where France have 8-9 men ahead of the ball and seeing him neglect to play an obvious pass in favour of a highly risky dribble that if failed leaves his team highly exposed.
However on the flip side under Ole he's reduced the frequency of this kind of high risk, low reward poor option which is very positive. I always thought he was a player that wouldn't mature until his late 20's and I still believe that'll be the case. It's controversial but in my view moving to Juventus and having such freedom put back his mental development, despite aiding his physical/technical development (however these facets of his game were strong irrespective).
He has a great opportunity over the next 15 months either way to prove he's one of the best in the world. That's the way to secure a £400k a week contract, rather than poorly timed flirtations.
People are obviously mixing him being talented and out best player we have with him being inconsistent. Saying he had bad games and has been inconsistent doesn't mean he's still fabulous on his day and we miss him when he's out.
Hope he's on his A game this afternoon. He can get us that 4th spot.
Pogba was amazing with Juventus and France but occasionally struggles in a shit united team that finished 6th and 2nd while parking the bus.
Seriously every player struggled in Mourinho’s United... even his ‘son’ Matic.
Every attacking player fared even worse.
Seriously every player struggled in Mourinho’s United... even his ‘son’ Matic.
Every attacking player fared even worse.
So when he has bad game it's cause the team is shit but when he's good it's all thanks to him? Does it work like that. Also I like your fooled by hard work part. It's called pulling a shift and Rooney always did that. Some player can be more talented than the other but if he doesn't show it on the pitch it doesn't matter. Pogba has had great games but had stinkers too. Making excuses for his stinkers while shitting on other players doesn't make much sense.
FFS. He is Pogba, not Messi FFS.
Why is he being discussed all over again? Was he poor for France?
So do we hate pogba again? Just want to keep up with the mob.
He was quality in both games, controlling the midfield.
Because he said Madrid would be a dream for him.
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