[The Red Thinker]

I've been a Pogba pessimist, to be honest. He played a season in which I was convinced that he had gone down a level after he joined us. After Matci came in, I was sure he'd be twice the player last season, but it wasn't to be.

Closely observing his World Cup campaign I've come to believe that Pogba is incapable of being a central midfielder. He is an attacking midfielder through and through. His effort in defence was still barely above par this World Cup. It was the engine of Kante that made him look better than he actually is while defending. He needs a runner around him who can hustle and win him balls. I guess I kind of always knew this subconsciously but never fully accepted it as it seemed such a waste that a midfielder of his size, power and strength can only be used going forward. But in that second half, he really stepped it up defensively and it seemed for a moment that maybe he can be more than just an attacker.

Bottom line, Mourinho needs to set-up his midfield with ball-winners behind Pogba and let him wreak havoc going forward. Mourinho needs to get an engine beside Matic who has Herrera's hustle but with the strength and power like that of Kante. This is the only way he will succeed with us.

 

[kouroux]

I've been a Pogba pessimist, to be honest. He played a season in which I was convinced that he had gone down a level after he joined us. After Matci came in, I was sure he'd be twice the player last season, but it wasn't to be.

Closely observing his World Cup campaign I've come to believe that Pogba is incapable of being a central midfielder. He is an attacking midfielder through and through. His effort in defence was still barely above par this World Cup. It was the engine of Kante that made him look better than he actually is while defending. He needs a runner around him who can hustle and win him balls. I guess I kind of always knew this subconsciously but never fully accepted it as it seemed such a waste that a midfielder of his size, power and strength can only be used going forward. But in that second half, he really stepped it up defensively and it seemed for a moment that maybe he can be more than just an attacker.

Bottom line, Mourinho needs to set-up his midfield with ball-winners behind Pogba and let him wreak havoc going forward. Mourinho needs to get an engine beside Matic who has Herrera's hustle but with the strength and power like that of Kante. This is the only way he will succeed with us.

You need to re-think your concept of "closely observing"

 

[ZenMaster Coltrane]

I've been a Pogba pessimist, to be honest. He played a season in which I was convinced that he had gone down a level after he joined us. After Matci came in, I was sure he'd be twice the player last season, but it wasn't to be.

Closely observing his World Cup campaign I've come to believe that Pogba is incapable of being a central midfielder. He is an attacking midfielder through and through. His effort in defence was still barely above par this World Cup. It was the engine of Kante that made him look better than he actually is while defending. He needs a runner around him who can hustle and win him balls.

I just can't. What tournament were you watching??? He won more duels than any midfielder in the World Cup (58). Within a starting XI, every player has a different role. If Kante was expected to go forward and create he couldn't do anything close to what he's doing now defensively. This is how football works. And what happened when Kante was subbed? Did the undependable Pogba collapse??

United need better ball playing players who are quicker and play at a quicker tempo than they currently do. It's a glaring problem to astute observers.

 

[roonster09]

I don't think Pogba got enough credit for his performance in the world cup, he was arguably the most complete midfielder in the world cup.

Defensive side,



He won more duels than any midfielder, which includes 20 aerial duels which is the best for the midfielder.

Also he created 9 chances and all from open play. For France only Griezmann created more (10) but 5 of them are from set pieces.

For a midfielder, only Modric and KdB created more, both takes set pieces and also played advanced role than Pogba. Modric also played 160 mins more than Pogba.

When it comes to contribution in both attack and defense, he is arguably the best in this world cup alongside Modric.

 

[#07]

 

[Greck]

Would have made sense if Pogba did the 180 after getting dropped. He came back and was just as forgetful of his defensive duties

 

[Jib]

He badly wanted to lift the world cup. That's the only reason


If you think that he'll play like that with us, you may be very disappointed.

Otherwise Mourinho would have managed to make him change his mind since a long time ago

If there is a WC ( or a CL ) on the line, he'll accept the supporting role. If it's a top 4 spot, hell no

Raiola is currently touring Europe to find a new club for Pogba because the club back Mourinho and not him

 

[Adam-Utd]

I've been a Pogba pessimist, to be honest. He played a season in which I was convinced that he had gone down a level after he joined us. After Matci came in, I was sure he'd be twice the player last season, but it wasn't to be.

Closely observing his World Cup campaign I've come to believe that Pogba is incapable of being a central midfielder. He is an attacking midfielder through and through. His effort in defence was still barely above par this World Cup. It was the engine of Kante that made him look better than he actually is while defending. He needs a runner around him who can hustle and win him balls. I guess I kind of always knew this subconsciously but never fully accepted it as it seemed such a waste that a midfielder of his size, power and strength can only be used going forward. But in that second half, he really stepped it up defensively and it seemed for a moment that maybe he can be more than just an attacker.

Bottom line, Mourinho needs to set-up his midfield with ball-winners behind Pogba and let him wreak havoc going forward. Mourinho needs to get an engine beside Matic who has Herrera's hustle but with the strength and power like that of Kante. This is the only way he will succeed with us.

Absolute rubbish. Pogba is a well rounded CM, capable of dribbling, passing, shooting and tackling. His ability to hold the ball under pressure is 1 of the best in the world.

His tackling/ intercepting stats were up with Kante's this tournament, and that's with adding the goals + assists Kante DOESN'T get.

The only thing you can aim at him is his motivation, sometimes he's too relaxed and just wants to play for fun. When he's serious he's top 3 midfielder in the world IMO.

 

[roonster09]

I've been a Pogba pessimist, to be honest. He played a season in which I was convinced that he had gone down a level after he joined us. After Matci came in, I was sure he'd be twice the player last season, but it wasn't to be.

Closely observing his World Cup campaign I've come to believe that Pogba is incapable of being a central midfielder. He is an attacking midfielder through and through. His effort in defence was still barely above par this World Cup. It was the engine of Kante that made him look better than he actually is while defending. He needs a runner around him who can hustle and win him balls. I guess I kind of always knew this subconsciously but never fully accepted it as it seemed such a waste that a midfielder of his size, power and strength can only be used going forward. But in that second half, he really stepped it up defensively and it seemed for a moment that maybe he can be more than just an attacker.

Bottom line, Mourinho needs to set-up his midfield with ball-winners behind Pogba and let him wreak havoc going forward. Mourinho needs to get an engine beside Matic who has Herrera's hustle but with the strength and power like that of Kante. This is the only way he will succeed with us.

Think we have finally found Souness' caf account.

 

[Revaulx]

Think Pogba's only the 4th ever United player to play in a World Cup final while playing for United. Think the other 3 were England 1966.

Three? Only Stiles and Charlton played in the final. Connelly played in the opening 0-0 v Uruguay, after which Ramsey ditched wingers and he never played for England again.

 

[Revaulx]

Absolute rubbish. Pogba is a well rounded CM, capable of dribbling, passing, shooting and tackling. His ability to hold the ball under pressure is 1 of the best in the world.

His tackling/ intercepting stats were up with Kante's this tournament, and that's with adding the goals + assists Kante DOESN'T get.

The only thing you can aim at him is his motivation, sometimes he's too relaxed and just wants to play for fun. When he's serious he's top 3 midfielder in the world IMO.

This. I had doubts about whether he could (or should) play at CM before the tournament. It’s obvious now that he can, and thrives there.

So why can’t he do it with any degree of consistency for United. Raiola’s malign influence? Can’t stand Jose? Players around him not good enough? The consensus on here seems to be the last of these; I’m not convinced by this, but if it’s true then for his own sake he’s best off moving on as we’re not going to sign a whole new team any time soon.

 

[11101]

This. I had doubts about whether he could (or should) play at CM before the tournament. It’s obvious now that he can, and thrives there.

So why can’t he do it with any degree of consistency for United. Raiola’s malign influence? Can’t stand Jose? Players around him not good enough? The consensus on here seems to be the last of these; I’m not convinced by this, but if it’s true then for his own sake he’s best off moving on as we’re not going to sign a whole new team any time soon.

He can, he didn't do anything drastically different this tournament. We just expect far more from him, more than any midfielder can possibly do, and we have no movement around him. With United, if he defends people complain he isnt creating, if he creates people complain he doesn't defend. No player can do both.

His brilliant passes that have Mbappe and Griezmann running to get on the end of them, we have Sanchez stood 5 yards from him, Mata running in treacle and Lukaku surrounded by centre backs. He loses the ball or plays it safe. The wonder ball for the 3rd France goal never happens.

It all comes back to the defence. Mourinho is still one of the two best managers in the world. He hasn't lost his touch all of a sudden. The attackers don't run because they're under instruction not to get too far ahead of their man, the midfield doesn't push because they're told the same, plus they always have to drop deep to get the ball from the defence. If Mourinho fully trusted the defenders the whole team would be set free.

 

[roonster09]

 

[milemuncher777]

Souness' cat will become the most successful British space launch in history when he gets home tonight.

 

[Adam-Utd]

This. I had doubts about whether he could (or should) play at CM before the tournament. It’s obvious now that he can, and thrives there.

So why can’t he do it with any degree of consistency for United. Raiola’s malign influence? Can’t stand Jose? Players around him not good enough? The consensus on here seems to be the last of these; I’m not convinced by this, but if it’s true then for his own sake he’s best off moving on as we’re not going to sign a whole new team any time soon.

Honestly, i'm not sure if it's a jose issue with not being able to fully motivate him, or whether it's the squad setup/attacking players not being good enough.

 

[The Red Thinker]

I just can't. What tournament were you watching??? He won more duels than any midfielder in the World Cup (58). Within a starting XI, every player has a different role. If Kante was expected to go forward and create he couldn't do anything close to what he's doing now defensively. This is how football works. And what happened when Kante was subbed? Did the undependable Pogba collapse??

United need better ball playing players who are quicker and play at a quicker tempo than they currently do. It's a glaring problem to astute observers.

Winning duels is only a part of it. I don’t think he was nearly as influential say a Modric was. Granted they played two differing systems with France playing a system primed for Counter attacking football, but Pogba, in my opinion, lacks the knack of creating space for himself in order to thrive as a CM. It is easier to be a brilliant CM with the incredible level of talent around you, as in with France, than to be the driving force in a team like United. Have we all forgotten how Pogba was terrible in certain parts of last season? It doesn't change overnight.

There were times he was playing a system akin to the one he played at in Juventus but couldn't find the space to dictate games as CM's are supposed to do.

Kante was the key figure behind Pogba's brilliance this World Cup. However, I will say he's had a fantastic World Cup. I root for Pogba to be the best in the world. But as a midfield engine that dominates midfields, I do not think he is capable of that. Maybe in spurts. Certainly not consistently.

 

[The Red Thinker]

Absolute rubbish. Pogba is a well rounded CM, capable of dribbling, passing, shooting and tackling. His ability to hold the ball under pressure is 1 of the best in the world.

His tackling/ intercepting stats were up with Kante's this tournament, and that's with adding the goals + assists Kante DOESN'T get.

The only thing you can aim at him is his motivation, sometimes he's too relaxed and just wants to play for fun. When he's serious he's top 3 midfielder in the world IMO.

I believe it doesn't come naturally to him. When I said "incapable", it also adheres to his willingness to do the same things you mention with prolonged consistency.

I have always believed that he has it in him. He just doesn't have the mentality for it. There are a lot of players out there that transform when wearing their country colours. But let's not forget that it is for a far lesser time period than when playing a full season. A CM must be reliable. Pogba is not that.

There is no question he can. But, mentally he is incapable of taking up this role.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

 

[Adam-Utd]

I believe it doesn't come naturally to him. When I said "incapable", it also adheres to his willingness to do the same things you mention with prolonged consistency.

I have always believed that he has it in him. He just doesn't have the mentality for it. There are a lot of players out there that transform when wearing their country colours. But let's not forget that it is for a far lesser time period than when playing a full season. A CM must be reliable. Pogba is not that.

There is no question he can. But, mentally he is incapable of taking up this role.

I appreciate your opinion but I don't agree. He's had WAY more good performances for us than bad.

You have to remember the premier league is much more end to end than international football, the slower pace is more similar to Seria A.

We rely on Pogba so much at Manchester United that he has to be everything, for France he doesn't have to.

 

[Oldyella]

He can, he didn't do anything drastically different this tournament. We just expect far more from him, more than any midfielder can possibly do, and we have no movement around him. With United, if he defends people complain he isnt creating, if he creates people complain he doesn't defend. No player can do both.

His brilliant passes that have Mbappe and Griezmann running to get on the end of them, we have Sanchez stood 5 yards from him, Mata running in treacle and Lukaku surrounded by centre backs. He loses the ball or plays it safe. The wonder ball for the 3rd France goal never happens.

It all comes back to the defence. Mourinho is still one of the two best managers in the world. He hasn't lost his touch all of a sudden. The attackers don't run because they're under instruction not to get too far ahead of their man, the midfield doesn't push because they're told the same, plus they always have to drop deep to get the ball from the defence. If Mourinho fully trusted the defenders the whole team would be set free.

Lists reasons why our attackers don't work.

Proceeds to blame the defense. Makes sense.


Fwiw if you think Jose trusting our defense will suddenly find Mata not running in treacle or Sanchez not trying to take the ball off the midfielders toes every attack I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[Greck]

Lists reasons why our attackers don't work.

Proceeds to blame the defense. Makes sense.


Fwiw if you think Jose trusting our defense will suddenly find Mata not running in treacle or Sanchez not trying to take the ball off the midfielders toes every attack I have a bridge to sell you.

This trait annoys me to no end. Makes me wonder how exactly Pep was going to manage it when he was pushing to buy him.

 

[meamth]

This. I had doubts about whether he could (or should) play at CM before the tournament. It’s obvious now that he can, and thrives there.

So why can’t he do it with any degree of consistency for United. Raiola’s malign influence? Can’t stand Jose? Players around him not good enough? The consensus on here seems to be the last of these; I’m not convinced by this, but if it’s true then for his own sake he’s best off moving on as we’re not going to sign a whole new team any time soon.

I'm baffled by some of the observation in caf. What team were you watching last season?

He had a great start, got injured, came back excellent again, red carded, then a blip, excellent again, injured again and then was unfortunate to return with a blip.

Look, he is exceptional now as he was but his consistency level is unlike Messi or Ronaldo. Heck no one does, but Pogba was not as bad as the media pointed out.

We are just missing that cutting edge at attack last season, the main reason why we missed so many chances to get the trophies. Midfield is not that much to blame apart from a handful of games when we were shocking.

 

[dove]

This will surely trigger half of England fans

 

[The Red Thinker]

I appreciate your opinion but I don't agree. He's had WAY more good performances for us than bad.

You have to remember the premier league is much more end to end than international football, the slower pace is more similar to Seria A.

We rely on Pogba so much at Manchester United that he has to be everything, for France he doesn't have to.

Perhaps you have a point with regards to our over reliance on Pogba. But, I believe that if he’s one if the too central midfielders in the world as people say he is, he should be able to carry the team in midfield consistently. He’s no Young sprout. He’s 25 with loads of experience and international pedigree. The best CM’s in the world would be running midfield regardless of team. Maybe I expect too much of Pogba. Maybe it’s a reaction to him being hailed as one of th best in the world. But when I See Luka Modric play, I see a central midfielder. When I see Pogba I see an attacking midfielder. Just an opinion. Appreciate the argument.

 

[meamth]

Winning duels is only a part of it. I don’t think he was nearly as influential say a Modric was. Granted they played two differing systems with France playing a system primed for Counter attacking football, but Pogba, in my opinion, lacks the knack of creating space for himself in order to thrive as a CM. It is easier to be a brilliant CM with the incredible level of talent around you, as in with France, than to be the driving force in a team like United. Have we all forgotten how Pogba was terrible in certain parts of last season? It doesn't change overnight.

There were times he was playing a system akin to the one he played at in Juventus but couldn't find the space to dictate games as CM's are supposed to do.

Kante was the key figure behind Pogba's brilliance this World Cup. However, I will say he's had a fantastic World Cup. I root for Pogba to be the best in the world. But as a midfield engine that dominates midfields, I do not think he is capable of that. Maybe in spurts. Certainly not consistently.

I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree on tha one. Pogba is one of the key reasons why they get through to the final. He is the only midfielder who can thread long range passes to their attackers. I didn't see Kante doing that, he just snatch the ball in midfield and dribble to the final third only to give a sideway pass to the fullbacks.

Pogba was the main playmaker, many times when the defence retains the ball, passright away to him and he just beats one or two man and deliver that ball from the deep.

EDIT:
Even switching the ball to the flanks was mainly Pogba's responsibility, I bet that 80% of long balls to switch play was made by Pogba in that French team. He was immense.

 

[Laurentiu amt]

This will surely trigger half of England fans

Yes, for sure, it will trigger the idiot ones.

 

[11101]

Lists reasons why our attackers don't work.

Proceeds to blame the defense. Makes sense.


Fwiw if you think Jose trusting our defense will suddenly find Mata not running in treacle or Sanchez not trying to take the ball off the midfielders toes every attack I have a bridge to sell you.

If you think the two are unrelated then I have one to sell you too...

International duties and other clubs have shown they can do it but for us they're under instruction not to.

I think Sanchez getting in everyone's way is a throwback to Arsenal when he had to do everything himself. He isn't used to a functioning team yet.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

2/5 that he stays with us, 13/5 PSG. How much longer has he left on his contract?

 

[roonster09]

2/5 that he stays with us, 13/5 PSG. How much longer has he left on his contract?

4 years.

 

[Biji.Kelot]

So in order to unleash Pogba potential we need to buy Kante-Matuidi/Nzonzi in the midle and Griezman-Mbappe upfront ?

Dont get the point that he has a great WC. Even in the 1st half of the Final, he barely performed. It was Kante running out the grass to cope with Modric and Rakitic. While Matuidi played more wider on the left. Pogba did litle to help Kante. That is why the later get booked and being substituted by Zonzi.

In second half, little had changed. Only after Croatia ran out of gas, that Pogba could elevate his game. And please, 2 goals of Mbappe and Pogba same with Mandzukic goal were flukes. 2 because the tired defenders and one due to shite GK.

I support France, they were good. But Pogba is not their best player. Pavard was miles better. And for being arrogant at the end of the game by Sssh-ing gesture, shown that he is overvalued himself too much. More respect for the Giroud, helped the defense tirelessly.

If his agents find the clubs who will pay us for profit, dont have any objection for having him sold.

 

[The Red Thinker]

You need to re-think your concept of "closely observing"

I think I’ve done alright so far. Thanks for the advice though.

 

[haram]

2/5 that he stays with us, 13/5 PSG. How much longer has he left on his contract?

That’s actually not that bad a price for him to stay.

 

[Adam-Utd]

2/5 that he stays with us, 13/5 PSG. How much longer has he left on his contract?

Where's that from? I'd lump 2 grand on that happily. He's going nowhere.

 

[Yagami]

This will surely trigger half of England fans

Technically, if he continues to hog the trophy, it will be coming home to Manchester.

 

[Canagel]

So in order to unleash Pogba potential we need to buy Kante-Matuidi/Nzonzi in the midle and Griezman-Mbappe upfront ?

Dont get the point that he has a great WC. Even in the 1st half of the Final, he barely performed. It was Kante running out the grass to cope with Modric and Rakitic. While Matuidi played more wider on the left. Pogba did litle to help Kante. That is why the later get booked and being substituted by Zonzi.

In second half, little had changed. Only after Croatia ran out of gas, that Pogba could elevate his game. And please, 2 goals of Mbappe and Pogba same with Mandzukic goal were flukes. 2 because the tired defenders and one due to shite GK.

I support France, they were good. But Pogba is not their best player. Pavard was miles better. And for being arrogant at the end of the game by Sssh-ing gesture, shown that he is overvalued himself too much. More respect for the Giroud, helped the defense tirelessly.

If his agents find the clubs who will pay us for profit, dont have any objection for having him sold.

No white text ?

 

[devilish]

So in order to unleash Pogba potential we need to buy Kante-Matuidi/Nzonzi in the midle and Griezman-Mbappe upfront ?

Dont get the point that he has a great WC. Even in the 1st half of the Final, he barely performed. It was Kante running out the grass to cope with Modric and Rakitic. While Matuidi played more wider on the left. Pogba did litle to help Kante. That is why the later get booked and being substituted by Zonzi.

In second half, little had changed. Only after Croatia ran out of gas, that Pogba could elevate his game. And please, 2 goals of Mbappe and Pogba same with Mandzukic goal were flukes. 2 because the tired defenders and one due to shite GK.

I support France, they were good. But Pogba is not their best player. Pavard was miles better. And for being arrogant at the end of the game by Sssh-ing gesture, shown that he is overvalued himself too much. More respect for the Giroud, helped the defense tirelessly.

If his agents find the clubs who will pay us for profit, dont have any objection for having him sold.

And what exactly had England ever won with their players who help the defense tirelessly? What did they fare with a team largely made up of overrated donkeys? They lost the moment they met a squad with 3-4 decent players on the pitch.

Football isn't not a donkey contest. Sure you need players to do the hard work but ultimately what makes a team special is crystalline talent.

 

[roonster09]

So in order to unleash Pogba potential we need to buy Kante-Matuidi/Nzonzi in the midle and Griezman-Mbappe upfront ?

Dont get the point that he has a great WC. Even in the 1st half of the Final, he barely performed. It was Kante running out the grass to cope with Modric and Rakitic. While Matuidi played more wider on the left. Pogba did litle to help Kante. That is why the later get booked and being substituted by Zonzi.

In second half, little had changed. Only after Croatia ran out of gas, that Pogba could elevate his game. And please, 2 goals of Mbappe and Pogba same with Mandzukic goal were flukes. 2 because the tired defenders and one due to shite GK.

I support France, they were good. But Pogba is not their best player. Pavard was miles better. And for being arrogant at the end of the game by Sssh-ing gesture, shown that he is overvalued himself too much. More respect for the Giroud, helped the defense tirelessly.

If his agents find the clubs who will pay us for profit, dont have any objection for having him sold.

Hopefully this is sarcastic post and I'm missing the joke.

 

[villain]

So in order to unleash Pogba potential we need to buy Kante-Matuidi/Nzonzi in the midle and Griezman-Mbappe upfront ?

Dont get the point that he has a great WC. Even in the 1st half of the Final, he barely performed. It was Kante running out the grass to cope with Modric and Rakitic. While Matuidi played more wider on the left. Pogba did litle to help Kante. That is why the later get booked and being substituted by Zonzi.

In second half, little had changed. Only after Croatia ran out of gas, that Pogba could elevate his game. And please, 2 goals of Mbappe and Pogba same with Mandzukic goal were flukes. 2 because the tired defenders and one due to shite GK.

I support France, they were good. But Pogba is not their best player. Pavard was miles better. And for being arrogant at the end of the game by Sssh-ing gesture, shown that he is overvalued himself too much. More respect for the Giroud, helped the defense tirelessly.

If his agents find the clubs who will pay us for profit, dont have any objection for having him sold.

Found Grame Souness' 'caf account

 

[Revaulx]

Honestly, i'm not sure if it's a jose issue with not being able to fully motivate him, or whether it's the squad setup/attacking players not being good enough.

Ditto. I have no idea. Rest of the team (especially defence) not being good enough sounds like a cop out to me.

 

[BluesJr]

Really worried we're stupid enough to sell him, please no.