[Chaky_Best]

I really think that it's more 50/50 between Mou and Pogba.

Mourinho's not playing a team that suits him for sure. I'm not sure that he's great in a midfield 2. More in a midfield 3 but with speed around him.

Pogba's bit lazy with his positionning, he plays deep and one minute later you find him in the box. He's not a traditional box to box player because he doesn't have this intensity. He plays great for 5 mins then fades for 10 others.

We may need another midfielder that will dictate the tempo and let him break the lines.

Unlike Mourninho says, I don't think that we have midfielders who passes the ball exepct Herrera and Carrick. We may need a real midfielder in order to let Pogba do his things, but to be honest, it's extremly difficult

 

[itso 7]

I can understand these choices, they are not daft, IMO. We are building a new team and relying on too many oldish players doesn'tmake sense. We have Zlatan who is going to be 35 in several weeks and Rooney, 31. I can understand also choosing experienced players over unproven youngsters, given that the batttle for the title and even for the top 4 is going to be fierce.

But I can't understand the type of football Mou wants to implement here. It looks dinosaurish most of the time. And it was the same at Chelsea for 25 out of the 30 months he was there. He had only one good spell for about 5 months in 2014/15--mostly due to the outstanding form of Hazard, Fabregas and Costa--but the team almost collapsed in the final months, lost from 10 man PSG and won the title for the sheer lack of serious competition. I suspect that Madrid changed Mou. For worse.

But this is Rojo we are talking about here, his experience means sweet FA when he is a terrible footballer; same with Jones, how does his experience help us when he manages to get injured at every turn?
It also looks like we have signed Pogba without a real plan and expect him to be Scholes when he is nothing of the sort, Carrick and Bastien have attributes that enable them to fulfill the role of orchestrator we are asking of Pogba so it doesn't matter how many 40 year olds we have in the side if they are bringing something to the table. A player like Carrick would knit our play together and allow players like Pogba the platform to do what they do best. When we are playing a midfield of battlers our play will of course look agricultural.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

I said it before we signed him that people tend to be misguided about what he's going to bring to the team. He's obviously a much better player than he has shown so far but unless he changes his style, he's never going to be someone who runs games from. midfield on a consistent basis. He's more of a "moments/highlights" player.

You're right, he needs to find his permanent role in the team.

I would say his drive with the ball is the best quality. Having a midfielder who can move the whole team forward on his own is very unique. Dembele is very good at it and he was key to Spurs last season.

With that in mind, i think he should have a more diciplined role and try to develop his distribution. Instead of joining attack all the time he should stay a bit deeper and help moving the ball forward with the DM. Still think a 3 man midfield would be the best solution.

He had Vidal as a partner in his first two years at Juventus and i think he was the perfect partner for him. Vidal is just a complete all rounder, he play as an attacking midfielder while also helping out in defence covering large amounts of space.

Obviously we're not going to get a player of Vidal's calibre, but there is certainly options out there who could to the job.

I think it was @bosnian_red who suggested that Mkhitaryan could be the right player to partner Pogba, and i've thought the same. He puts a shift in defensively and he is very good at making those runs in the middle, Zlatan would certainly benefit from that too.

Something like this is what i think about:

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Make sure we bookmark these hissy fits and meltdowns on this thread so we can all come back and laugh at ourselves further down the line

 

[shaggy]

Make sure we bookmark these hissy fits and meltdowns on this thread so we can all come back and laugh at ourselves further down the line

Like the last 3 years?

 

[Varun]

You're right, he needs to find his permanent role in the team.

I would say his drive with the ball is the best quality. Having a midfielder who can move the whole team forward on his own is very unique. Dembele is very good at it and he was key to Spurs last season.

With that in mind, i think he should have a more diciplined role and try to develop his distribution. Instead of joining attack all the time he should stay a bit deeper and help moving the ball forward with the DM. Still think a 3 man midfield would be the best solution.

He had Vidal as a partner in his first two years at Juventus and i think he was the perfect partner for him. Vidal is just a complete all rounder, he play as an attacking midfielder while also helping out in defence covering large amounts of space.

Obviously we're not going to get a player of Vidal's calibre, but there is certainly options out there who could to the job.

I think it was @bosnian_red who suggested that Mkhitaryan could be the right player to partner Pogba, and i've thought the same. He puts a shift in defensively and he is very good at making those runs in the middle, Zlatan would certainly benefit from that too.

Something like this is what i think about:

I don't think we'll ever get the best out of him in a restricted deeper role. It's not what he's best at and that's what you want when you pay like we have. Have Fellaini and Herrera alongside him and move to a 4-3-3 permanently with him with the most freedom in the middle is what's best suited imo. That said, a 4-3-3 with a very deep line is not going to work well as the attacking players will be isolated which is a problem as I don't think Mourinho is going to setup to play high up the pitch. He always takes about 2 spots in CM which makes me think that's his plan A for sure and will only change, if at all, if it doesn't work out.

 

[Wade3]

Di Maria tried. Thats why Van Gaal dropped him... He took risks.

I hold nothing against ADM for leaving us anyway. He was dropped for Ashley Young. He was playing under a clueless manager with a strict "philosophy" and he got the move he really wanted in the end. Can't fault him for that. If anything, I'm grateful he joined us in the first place considering we had no Champions League football at the time. I just wish that season worked out better for us and him.

He would have stayed if he knew Mourinho was coming, IMO.

Di Maria was often disengaged and found sulking on the pitch. That isn't the case with Pogba at all. Di Maria willingly quit because he never wanted to be in Manchester. You would never see such a weak attitude from someone with an ego as big as Pogba.

And again, Pogba is not someone who joins a team because he has to. Nobody forced him out at Juve and nobody forced him to join us. If he so desperately wanted to go to Madrid, I'm confident he would've told Raiola to make that happen.

 

[Wade3]

Noone can doubt that he really wanted it tonight. The amount of complaining he did about everyone else. Depressingly, it looks like the fee has got to him. He's taking on too much and is visibly stressed when the game doesn't go his way. If he doesn't sort his head out this will go from bad to worse. This season is turning into another cocking nightmare for us fans. feck's sake.

I don't see it being that dramatic. He wants to be a leader and take on responsibility. It's now Mourinho's job to guide him properly and teach him to be more efficient in his actions.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

I don't think we'll ever get the best out of him in a restricted deeper role. It's not what he's best at and that's what you want when you pay like we have. Have Fellaini and Herrera alongside him and move to a 4-3-3 permanently with him with the most freedom in the middle is what's best suited imo. That said, a 4-3-3 with a very deep line is not going to work well as the attacking players will be isolated which is a problem as I don't think Mourinho is going to setup to play high up the pitch. He always takes about 2 spots in CM which makes me think that's his plan A for sure and will only change, if at all, if it doesn't work out.

When i say more diciplined i mean not storming out to the wings and bypassing everyone ending up with him having no players to link up with and ultimately losing the ball.

I would rather see him moving the ball forward with either dribbling/passing and for example play Martial in to empty space and then he can join attack.
What i mean is he needs to be more involved in the build up phase, instead of positioning himself high up the pitch to receive the ball.

I really do think he has the attributes and talent to be great in that role, but he will need some time to develop in it.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Like the last 3 years?

I'm pretty sure he's only been here for 4 games.

 

[Varun]

When i say more diciplined i mean not storming out to the wings and bypassing everyone ending up with him having no players to link up with and ultimately losing the ball.

I would rather see him moving the ball forward with either dribbling/passing and for example play Martial in to empty space and then he can join attack.
What i mean is he needs to be more involved in the build up phase, instead of positioning himself high up the pitch to receive the ball.

I really do think he has the attributes and talent to be great in that role, but he will need some time to develop in it.

Ah understood, agree with that.

 

[Treble]

Most folks were very naive in their expectations in the first place. Few foreign players hit the ground running, especially if they are record signings. The pressure is immense.

Pogba is an young player coming from a different league to an unsettled team with no proper chemistry. Of course, it would take time for him to find his form and role in the team.

Modric was in his prime when he signed with Madrid and was mostly disappointing in the first season there.

The problem is that fans are impatient, all the more our rivals play quite well which exacerbates the situation.

Rooney is a big problem albeit his fans understandably never would admit it. If we don't play Rooney and play badly, they are gloating in all threads, as if a team without Rooney wouldn't need time to gell and get cohesive. Worse, the media would be all over the manager if he dropped Rooney and we lost. No patience whatsoever.

Not sure Mou will be able to handle the situation well. These losses make it even harder to introduce real changes in the team. Keeping our head above the water will be our main objective,at least over the next 1-2 months.

 

[In Rainbows]

When i say more diciplined i mean not storming out to the wings and bypassing everyone ending up with him having no players to link up with and ultimately losing the ball.

I would rather see him moving the ball forward with either dribbling/passing and for example play Martial in to empty space and then he can join attack.
What i mean is he needs to be more involved in the build up phase, instead of positioning himself high up the pitch to receive the ball.

I really do think he has the attributes and talent to be great in that role, but he will need some time to develop in it.

It's very easy to see what his problem is right now and it's not nothing new. If you just look at his touches he is extremely comfortable on the ball. Not only does he constantly use his technique to escape out of pressure, but he uses his body well to shake off challenges from behind. When he dribbles, there isn't much to complain about. He's not really losing the ball much. He's winning a lot of fouls. He's extremely great with the ball and none of these poor performances hint at the opposite.

He just needs to get better at building up attacks with his passing and also get the team out of pressure with his passing. Essentially, as you said, he needs to position himself better to receive the ball more and become more involved. Exactly why he fits better in a 433 right now. A guy who can control the match and spray passes all day relieves him of that duty. A guy with energy also covers up his tendency to play at the pace he has played all his career. This is exactly what Pirlo and Vidal provided at Juve.

That doesn't mean he won't have bad matches. It's football and no player is perfectly consistently great outside of Messi.

 

[Full bodied red]

Why wait 2 or 3 years, you've been watching Utd since 57, you're clearly a football oracle. Let's get rid of him now, and sack Jose for gross misconduct for wasting 150m of Utds money. Full bodied red, you need a blood transfusion....and a brain transplant

Because, like you said yourself ' We might not see the best of him for a couple of seasons '.....

Make yer friggin' mind up !!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's very easy to see what his problem is right now and it's not nothing new. If you just look at his touches he is extremely comfortable on the ball. Not only does he constantly use his technique to escape out of pressure, but he uses his body well to shake off challenges from behind. When he dribbles, there isn't much to complain about. He's not really losing the ball much. He's winning a lot of fouls. He's extremely great with the ball and none of these poor performances hint at the opposite.

He just needs to get better at building up attacks with his passing and also get the team out of pressure with his passing. Essentially, as you said, he needs to position himself better to receive the ball more and become more involved. Exactly why he fits better in a 433 right now. A guy who can control the match and spray passes all day relieves him of that duty. A guy with energy also covers up his tendency to play at the pace he has played all his career. This is exactly what Pirlo and Vidal provided at Juve.

That doesn't mean he won't have bad matches. It's football and no player is perfectly consistently great outside of Messi.

He lost the ball a lot last night. He was also dribbling too much and not picking the right pass. Just a really poor performance.

Your second last paragraph really is damning btw. "This guy's a great central midfielder. Just needs someone else to control the game and do all the passing, then another guy to do all the running for him" That's like saying someone is a great striker, so long as we sign another player to score all the goals.

 

[SambaBoy]

Poor again last night but at least he was trying to make things happen, he didn't shirk responsibility. I do feel he is best in a 3 man midfield but not a pivot, he has openly admitted he's best on the left of a 3, where he can drive with the ball with not as much defensive responsibility.

Unless we play a formation like that, we won't get the best out of him.

Pogba- Fellaini- Herrera would be a decent choice. Ideally we should have went all out for Kante, that would have given license for Pogba to do what he wanted while still remaining defensively alert. Alternatively Carrick in his prime would have been a great option, but not sure he has the legs for it anymore.

 

[ZDwyr]

Starting to agree with those saying he needs someone to control the midfield to help him. It seems Carrick won't be that player, not very often anyway, so I would be open to trying Blind as the DM again. With Pogba and Herrera/Fellaini as well.

 

[In Rainbows]

He lost the ball a lot last night. He was also dribbling too much and not picking the right pass. Just a really poor performance.

Your second last paragraph really is damning btw. "This guy's a great central midfielder. Just needs someone else to control the game and do all the passing, then another guy to do all the running for him" That's like saying someone is a great striker, so long as we sign another player to score all the goals.

No it's really not. There are roles in midfield and he brings to the table what others can't do to the level he does. By putting him next to the guy that does the passing he relieves that midfielder from the need to contribute to the attack. Same with the guy who is the engine. It's not like he doesn't help out in a lot of areas too, he's just not the main source for those things.

He just needs to improve in one of those two areas and United are set for years.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He's certainly an attacking midfielder, need him as high up the pitch as possible to make use of his shooting passing and dribbling.

I still think 433 is the way to go, we just need to find the right balance between allowing Pogba to get forward from deep, having other midfielder supporting him to the side and 1 more behind them ready to clean up when they lose the ball.

Herrera/Pogba/Schneiderin in theory "should" work, but it just didn't last night. Maybe they need a few games together to really gel though.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Poor again last night but at least he was trying to make things happen, he didn't shirk responsibility. I do feel he is best in a 3 man midfield but not a pivot, he has openly admitted he's best on the left of a 3, where he can drive with the ball with not as much defensive responsibility.

Unless we play a formation like that, we won't get the best out of him.

Pogba- Fellaini- Herrera would be a decent choice. Ideally we should have went all out for Kante, that would have given license for Pogba to do what he wanted while still remaining defensively alert. Alternatively Carrick in his prime would have been a great option, but not sure he has the legs for it anymore.

Which is exactly how he was used in the second half against City and for the whole of last night's game.

 

[montpelier]

I think you've got to let him play all over the park, with someone else sitting deep permanently kind of thing. Looks like a awful lot of potential but still learning the game to me. And/or settling in, if something comes off for him or later on we should see better form than this. Bit of rhythm, bit of confidence, settled pattern of play.

Could be saying this about the team as a whole, tbf.

 

[Utd heap]

The reactions to Pogba generally across football is priceless. Shows how immediate and short term everything appears to be.

4 games!!

 

[SambaBoy]

Which is exactly how he was used in the second half against City and for the whole of last night's game.

I'd say he was more of a 10 last night then left of the 3, especially at the start. It was a poor performance regardless and the derby, hopefully he can pick up form over the next few games.

When he was given space against Southampton he was brilliant, but it seems he's been squeezed out of games since and struggles against defences that drop deep.

 

[sugar_kane]

He was playing his arse off in the second half, albeit not to great effect, and he will be amazing for us. Feck the haters laughing about the price tag on Twitter etc.

You could see how much he wanted to win and that's what we need right now.

The problems last night were Schneiderlin and our fullbacks who offered zero going forwards.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Poor again last night but at least he was trying to make things happen, he didn't shirk responsibility. I do feel he is best in a 3 man midfield but not a pivot, he has openly admitted he's best on the left of a 3, where he can drive with the ball with not as much defensive responsibility.

Unless we play a formation like that, we won't get the best out of him.

Pogba- Fellaini- Herrera would be a decent choice. Ideally we should have went all out for Kante, that would have given license for Pogba to do what he wanted while still remaining defensively alert. Alternatively Carrick in his prime would have been a great option, but not sure he has the legs for it anymore.

Yeah I think i'd go with that on Sunday as Fellaini will add physicallity that Schneiderlin doesn't. Jose needs to tell Pogba not to sit so deep and let him push on, There was times yesterday that Pogba and Herrera weren't sure when to push on and when to sit which caused us to be so deep at times. I suppose that will come in time the more they play together.

 

[Rory 7]

You must be enjoying all this.

Not really. I want him to work out for us. But I did say he wasn't the type of player everyone was making out.

 

[Litch]

Because, like you said yourself ' We might not see the best of him for a couple of seasons '.....

Make yer friggin' mind up !!

We come at it very different, you're class is half empty, mines half full and that was my point. You're saying we've wasted the money, I'm saying it's an investment and his ceiling is higher even now than any other player in the prem in his position. Even if De Bryne was for sale tmw, he still won't be worth 100m

 

[LuisNaniencia]

The reactions to Pogba generally across football is priceless. Shows how immediate and short term everything appears to be.

4 games!!

Was always going to happen. Having a world record fee attached to you is a big hindrance in the initial months. We've just got to play him into form.

 

[Full bodied red]

We come at it very different, you're class is half empty, mines half full and that was my point. You're saying we've wasted the money, I'm saying it's an investment and his ceiling is higher even now than any other player in the prem in his position. Even if De Bryne was for sale tmw, he still won't be worth 100m

Don't misunderstand me - he is a good signing and has the potential to be a great signing irrespective of the cost....

But let's wait and see if he can be as dominant in the EPL as was Keane, Scholes, Viera, etc....Even Toure a couple of seasons ago....

I hope so, for our sake, but I just have some doubts, still, based on what I've seen during the past couple of years, that's all....

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I don't think he was even that bad, yesterday. The overreaction in this thread is pathetic... In fact, the overreaction is every thread in making this forum unbearable.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

I don't think he was even that bad, yesterday. The overreaction in this thread is pathetic... In fact, the overreaction is every thread in making this forum unbearable.

True.

But we paid £80mil for him, he is going to get some stick if he doesn't do the business. Souness in hindsight, made a great point - for that kind of money people will expect him to win games by himself, score / create loads of goals. In fairness to Pogba, he doesn't seem that kind of player, but the money spent on him, he is going to be judged in that way.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I'm sure Pogba is great player and everything but for me, I have the 'Cavani' syndrome watching him. I hear great stuff about him all the time but whenever I see him play, he doesn't look special at all... His debut for us was when he looked most impressive...

 

[Adam-Utd]

I don't think he was even that bad, yesterday. The overreaction in this thread is pathetic... In fact, the overreaction is every thread in making this forum unbearable.

He was the only person that was really trying. Sure not everything came off but he was all over the pitch trying to get the ball and carry it forward. Shame Schneiderlin and Herrera didn't go at it with the same attitude, he might have been able to do more going forward.

 

[Rory 7]

Don't misunderstand me - he is a good signing and has the potential to be a great signing irrespective of the cost....

But let's wait and see if he can be as dominant in the EPL as was Keane, Scholes, Viera, etc....Even Toure a couple of seasons ago....

I hope so, for our sake, but I just have some doubts, still, based on what I've seen during the past couple of years, that's all....

Thats the best we can hope for from him IMO. He's never going to be a dominant midfielder like Keane or Viera.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

True.

But we paid £80mil for him, he is going to get some stick if he doesn't do the business. Souness in hindsight, made a great point - for that kind of money people will expect him to win games by himself, score / create loads of goals. In fairness to Pogba, he doesn't seem that kind of player, but the money spent on him, he is going to be judged in that way.

That's the problem with spending so much money on a central midfielder. I think it's fairly obvious he's not worth 90 million, but we've had to pay over the odds to acquire a very talented, young, yet experienced, central midfielder who's won a shit tonne at just 23. Even though, he can be frustrating to watch, you get the feeling that he has the ability to produce something out of nothing. It was a poor team performance, yet I thought he was our most likeliest to create something.

 

[PlayerOne]

Wow, four games in and some posters are already starting to panic about Pogba. He will come good, he's settling in and didn't have a pre-season. The team overall looks very disjointed and it seems Jose is still trying out his team.

He does seem to be out of sync with his teammates and he was trying too hard last night, he needs to relax and play his natural game. That will come with time though

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's human nature to judge players/teams on a game by game basis, especially when they're new. I don't know why people get so shocked by this. Once a team/player creates a body or work, then their fans can be a bit more relaxed about an out of character poor performance. For now, though, Pogba still has a lot to prove so will continue to get stick until he puts in the type of performance we were hoping to see when we signed him. In fact, it just takes one really good game to fend off the flak for the next few matches. Pogba was excellent on his debut, hence it's only now that he's getting any real stick despite being not a whole lot better in any of his games after that debut. If he turns up against Watford, he'll get more breathing space for the games that follow.

Of course, he could be dogshit for his first 20 games and still turn out to be a brilliant player for us. That's not going to stop people worrying out loud about him being a flop though. And I don't think that's unreasonable. Not when big signings at other clubs are hitting the ground running and we've had such a bad run of big money signings failing to make the grade at United. The anxiety is understandable.

 

[BlueCelery]

Are you implying Lampard was a superstar that could carry a team?

Of course I am. He's the only midfielder in PL history to lead a team to a PL title. And he did it twice.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Of course I am. He's the only midfielder in PL history to lead a team to a PL title. And he did it twice.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Of course I am. He's the only midfielder in PL history to lead a team to a PL title. And he did it twice.