[NoLookPasser]

If this explains it all then Mourinho must be a horrible manager, and I don't think he is a horrible manager.

I think he feels the replacements aren't good enough which is why he is persisting with him and if he is rested/ dropped, it will only attract more attention towards Pogba and further increase the pressure on him.

 

[TMDaines]

@TMDaines
So you list #1 in shots at a good thing, but you ignore that he only scored four league goals in 2250 minutes, while Thiago, who is #104 for shots scored three goals in 1700 minutes.
I don't have to think twice which shots stat impresses me more.

I'm not ignoring that. I've said ad nauseum that I've been disappointed in his finishing this season. I'm less interested though in who has been more clinical this season than who is likely to score more goals in the future.

It's been demonstrated before that there is greater correlation between the number of shots a player makes and the number of goals they score, than there is between the number of goals a player has scored and scores thereafter.

Top goalscorers don't generally differentiate themselves long term by a vastly higher conversion rate. They score the goals they do because they get themselves more chances.

This is why I urge patience with Zlatan and Pogba. They are doing everything you'd want them to do to contribute to a shed load of goals. There's a heck of a lot of variance in scoring in football that people are not comfortable with understanding. It's when players are not getting themselves chances that you have to worry.

 

[shamans]

Yes, because he is not that kind of midfielder.

This is just another excuse. A player of his caliber should be impacting big games. He said in an interview himself he wanted to he the next Ballon d'or winner. He's not gonna get there by being this "type" of midfielder

 

[NinjaFletch]

The stats that have been posted in here sum it up really don't they?

He's clearly not working hard enough defensively to play in a midfield two, and he's not providing enough of an attacking threat to justify being picked as the more attacking midfielder in a three.

His defensive contribution has been on par with what we'd have got from Mata had we played a 4-2-3-1 all season (with the exception of arial duels won). I think we'd be better off if Mata had had all Pogba's minutes so far in the middle. We'd have scored more goals at any rate.

 

[Stacks]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...a-manchester-united-latest-news-a7628681.html

Mourinho says he was the best player on the pitch. Clearly a part of that is defending him, but he absolutely wasn't as bad as some are making on here.

Jose is talking shit. Pogba turned over possession 21 times (more than any other player on the pitch), made 2 tackles and I there wasn't much attacking contribution.
That said, he wasn't as bad as people say, but try to ignore what managers say in the press because it is usually agenda driven nonsense

 

[Stacks]

Can we rename this thread - Bash Pogba to the point where it gets boring

We had 10 men against arguable the best team in the prem, it definitely wasn't his worst performance, I'd say one of his better defensive performances, we looked better than them up until the sending off. We lost because of the refs harsh sending off, yes was a foul but wasn't another yellow. The 343 of Chelsea becomes an overkill of attacking players vs 10 men. You fickle fans saying sell him to Madrid, worst ever signing and the rest of that bollox, Will more then likely be raving about him when he gets going next season. Why comment? It's so boring now, you guys specifically watch out for Pogba and remember the wrong things he did to post a sh!tty comment in here, watch the game, he didn't play bad at all. Get a grip

This is the Pogba performance thread. people will scrutinise his performances whether they are positive or negative contributions. If you cannot accept people commenting then you are a bit foolish to be browsing his performance thread. It is a part and parcel of assessing football. Its not all cupcakes and marshmallows you know!

 

[do.ob]

I'm not ignoring that. I've said ad nauseum that I've been disappointed in his finishing this season. I'm less interested though in who has been more clinical this season than who is likely to score more goals in the future.

It's been demonstrated before that there is greater correlation between the number of shots a player makes and the number of goals they score, than there is between the number of goals a player has scored and scores thereafter.

Top goalscorers don't generally differentiate themselves long term by a vastly higher conversion rate. They score the goals they do because they get themselves more chances.

This is why I urge patience with Zlatan and Pogba. They are doing everything you'd want them to do to contribute to a shed load of goals. There's a heck of a lot of variance in scoring in football that people are not comfortable with understanding. It's when players are not getting themselves chances that you have to worry.

That might be true for strikers, who in most situations are supposed to take a shot, but it's not that simple for midfielders imho, because for them every shot turns over possession and could also have been a pass that keeps the attack going.

 

[TMDaines]

How is that different from forwards? Especially if you only look at shots in box instead?

 

[PedroMendez]

This is just another excuse. A player of his caliber should be impacting big games. He said in an interview himself he wanted to he the next Ballon d'or winner. He's not gonna get there by being this "type" of midfielder

Pointing out that a player is just not as good as you assumed, is not the same as making excuses for him. You’ll be in for a rough time, when you expect him to win the balon d’Or. He won’t do that. Currently he is not even close to be one of the best midfielder in the world. I agree that he should work harder and that the manager needs to press him to work harder for the team. We’ll see how realistic that is; some players never really make that step. He wasn’t known for his work-rate during his time in Italy. I think one big problem that his athletic frame makes people think that he would be good at defending. But he only really uses his body to shield the ball but not when he tries to win the ball. If he’d have a Brazilian/Spanish name and a body like Coutinho, we’d look at him in a different light. Yet the comparison with somebody like Coutinho is not as outlandish as it might seem.

 

[do.ob]

How is that different from forwards? Especially if you only look at shots in box instead?

A forward is usually at the very end of an attack, a midfielder is somewhere inbetween and I was speaking about shots in general and not just inside the box.

 

[shamans]

Pointing out that a player is just not as good as you assumed, is not the same as making excuses for him. You’ll be in for a rough time, when you expect him to win the balon d’Or. He won’t do that. Currently he is not even close to be one of the best midfielder in the world. I agree that he should work harder and that the manager needs to press him to work harder for the team. We’ll see how realistic that is; some players never really make that step. He wasn’t known for his work-rate during his time in Italy. I think one big problem that his athletic frame makes people think that he would be good at defending. But he only really uses his body to shield the ball but not when he tries to win the ball. If he’d have a Brazilian/Spanish name and a body like Coutinho, we’d look at him in a different light. Yet the comparison with somebody like Coutinho is not as outlandish as it might seem.

That's not what I expect. He said it himself. He set the bar not me

 

[TMDaines]

I'm not sure I would agree with that. Certainly, not with the distinction between the nominal position of the player.

There would be something in looking how often a player makes the right decision in shooting, but that's difficult to quantify. A disproportionate amount of shots from outside the box would be a crude measure.

 

[fellaini's barber]

He needs to set step up, I really hope he realises this and not justifying his average performances with some of the weird stuff posters are coming up with. His finishing is crap, he's just jogging round the pitch most times, stupidly loses the ball too often.

 

[ice-bionic red]

Hasn't performed in the big games this season.

 

[Cheekiey]

This is the Pogba performance thread. people will scrutinise his performances whether they are positive or negative contributions. If you cannot accept people commenting then you are a bit foolish to be browsing his performance thread. It is a part and parcel of assessing football. Its not all cupcakes and marshmallows you know!

Are you one of the fans calling him to be sold to Madrid or saying he is our worst ever signing? I'm saying why comment rubbish things like that, when it's just unnecessary. You are right it is a Performance thread, and I come here to discuss his performance not to read people week after week bashing a player and only commenting on a the few bad thing he did. That is what's getting boring.
If you haven't seen that go back a few pages and look at all the comments right after the final whistle.

 

[Stacks]

Are you one of the fans calling him to be sold to Madrid or saying he is our worst ever signing? I'm saying why comment rubbish things like that, when it's just unnecessary. You are right it is a Performance thread, and I come here to discuss his performance not to read people week after week bashing a player and only commenting on a the few bad thing he did. That is what's getting boring.
If you haven't seen that go back a few pages and look at all the comments right after the final whistle.

I hear what you are saying but if everyone said "did you see that tackle he did on Hazard," it would be a bit phoney and seem as though they are reaching. Fans have expectations and if not met, can vent their criticism. I am sure Jose and his agent will do the same. If we are forced into an opinion of appraisal, there is little point or truth in it.
If you bought a brand new Ferrari and it performed like a corsa, when someone asked you about its performance, would you say, "well the ignition started, it drove, it can turn a corner well on occasion and the lights worked?" probably not because you expected more bang for your buck and also the reputation of the car to deliver more.

 

[steve88]

I hear what you are saying but if everyone said "did you see that tackle he did on Hazard," it would be a bit phoney and seem as though they are reaching. Fans have expectations and if not met, can vent their criticism. I am sure Jose and his agent will do the same. If we are forced into an opinion of appraisal, their is little point or truth in it.
If you bought a brand new Ferrari and it performed like a corsa, when someone asked you about its performance, would you say, "well the ignition started, it drove, it can turn a corner well on occasion and the lights worked?" probably not because you expected more bang for your buck and also the reputation of the car to deliver more.

Grt what you mean but I think the guy meant it's all right saying he did this wrong. But to say he had a bad game when he didn't he won free kicks and had like 3 or 4 players on him every time he had the ball and that tackle on hazard was class

 

[Lawman]

So we need 2 more WC mids for him to shine?

No just two good ones that compliment him.

 

[Ban]

No just two good ones that compliment him.

I'm sorry but this sounds like an excuse I've been reading here for a while.
Sure I think we need a good CM generally and it would help him but it's either we need better players to compliment him or he needs to play in a midfield 3 as a LM.
I don't think his football is as much as a problem as his attitude right now. Either he looks like he isn't arsed or he wants to do everything by himself and then fails miserably cause of that.
Mind you, he was good in the 1st half yesterday, in the 2nd we were under cosh with just 2 proper mids but he didn't show half the heart Rojo and Valencia showed and that's not a thing which you fix with 2 or 3 good midfielders.

 

[Stacks]

Grt what you mean but I think the guy meant it's all right saying he did this wrong. But to say he had a bad game when he didn't he won free kicks and had like 3 or 4 players on him every time he had the ball and that tackle on hazard was class

I don't think he had a bad game. a quiet one but not bad. Saying that, having 3 or 4 players on you can instigate you to having a bad game.

 

[noodlehair]

Thought he was very good up until just after Christmas, even though he was getting criticism. Since then though, he's turned into a clown.

It's like he is playing in a different football match to everyone else on the pitch. One that's going on in his own head where he can do everything in his own time. He reminds me of when I was a kid and I'd kick a ball around, commentating to myself in my own head and pretending I was playing for United. That's what Pogba looks like he's doing. He's 23, and he just wants to dick round like a kid in their back garden.

It's not so much the £89m that bothers me. It's all the nonsense you get with him. The stupid dancing videos. The prancing and posing around. The branding. Pogboom, etc. I don't understand why anyone thinks this is cool. It's not...it's a tolerable annoyance, providing you don't go out and perform like a midfield version of Emile Heskey. If you do, it just makes you a laughing stock. We're in 6th place so even if he was our best player it'd make him look like an idiot, and he isn't our best player. He should cut it the feck out.

 

[Stacks]

Thought he was very good up until just after Christmas, even though he was getting criticism. Since then though, he's turned into a clown.

It's like he is playing in a different football match to everyone else on the pitch. One that's going on in his own head where he can do everything in his own time. He reminds me of when I was a kid and I'd kick a ball around, commentating to myself in my own head and pretending I was playing for United. That's what Pogba looks like he's doing. He's 23, and he just wants to dick round like a kid in their back garden.

It's not so much the £89m that bothers me. It's all the nonsense you get with him. The stupid dancing videos. The prancing and posing around. The branding. Pogboom, etc. I don't understand why anyone thinks this is cool. It's not...it's a tolerable annoyance, providing you don't go out and perform like a midfield version of Emile Heskey. If you do, it just makes you a laughing stock. We're in 6th place so even if he was our best player it'd make him look like an idiot, and he isn't our best player. He should cut it the feck out.

I think the reason it annoys you is because it shows he is quite an immature person and that immaturity is also reflected in his game. It seems to him that life and football career is a big PogParty and reminds me of a basketball star. It is perfectly ok for a 23/24 year old to indulge himself of course, however I do feel that having an overall immature personality could potentially be an obstacle for him

 

[MuFc_1992]

That's not what I expect. He said it himself. He set the bar not me

You do remember what Balotelli and Bendtner said about themselves. I didn't have such high expectations from Pogba but I was absolutely convinced that he'd be as good as Yaya Toure in his prime but with better vision and passing range.

 

[VeevaVee]

When he did a bit of skill to manoeuvre the ball out of the way of two players, but instead of getting rid as soon as possible as the ball dropped, he turned back into the players and ended up with 3 surrounding him and losing it. That unfortunately is a good example of the poor side of Pogba.

 

[Stacks]

You do remember what Balotelli and Bendtner said about themselves. I didn't have such high expectations from Pogba but I was absolutely convinced that he'd be as good as Yaya Toure in his prime but with better vision and passing range.

That's a pretty high bar. Toure could play them same hollywood passes too and was often City's best playmaker. He had very good vision and could pick out runners. Toure also had an excellent through ball. Why would Pogba's passing range be better? I thought he would be a far better dribbler in terms of attacking teams defenses and driving through or carrying the ball long distances etc. But the Toure comparisons are more wishful as Pogba is more of a delicate player who likes time on the ball, kind of the artistic type. He plays more at the pace of David Silva than Toure but not the same ability.

 

[noodlehair]

I think the reason it annoys you is because it shows he is quite an immature person and that immaturity is also reflected in his game. It seems to him that life and football career is a big PogParty and reminds me of a basketball star. It is perfectly ok for a 23/24 year old to indulge himself of course, however I do feel that having an overall immature personality could potentially be an obstacle for him

I don't think it would bother me nearly as much if his performances or at least mentality on the pitch backed it up. It doesn't even come close at the moment though.

He prats around in games when he shouldn't. He fluffs his lines at the first hint of pressure. He costs his team goals. He turns up to a game against his team's main rivals, and puts in a MOTM performance...for them.

Basically, either start backing up the self hype, or cut it the feck out. When we're top of the league and flying in Europe because of Paul Pogba, THEN he can start acting like he's the big it.

 

[Earthquake]

http://deadspin.com/paul-pogba-is-good-1793266143

 

[balaks]

http://deadspin.com/paul-pogba-is-good-1793266143

That article's entire premise is that Pogba is a decent player but nowhere near as good as the expectations now upon him with the world record price tag but not only that, it's everybody else's fault (the fans for their expectations, Jose for his tactics and the other players for not doing the work for him and being any good) that Pogba isn't being seen as a success. Whoever wrote it I think has basically just made a review of this thread. Just noticed it's his birthday today so now he is only 24 as opposed to only 23.

 

[AN17]

Happy Birthday, Paul. Here's hoping you'll start proving doubters wrong soon.

 

[Thunderhead]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...nho-pundits-paul-pogba-manchester-united-envy

basically reading between the lines Jose is calling Lampard and Carragher jealous of Pogba's earnings.

 

[Untied]

"You can prove anything with facts"

 

[SkeppyRed]

That article's entire premise is that Pogba is a decent player but nowhere near as good as the expectations now upon him with the world record price tag but not only that, it's everybody else's fault (the fans for their expectations, Jose for his tactics and the other players for not doing the work for him and being any good) that Pogba isn't being seen as a success. Whoever wrote it I think has basically just made a review of this thread. Just noticed it's his birthday today so now he is only 24 as opposed to only 23.

Would you want him at Spurs?

 

[El-Manos]

His first game for us against Southampton, he was phenomenal. I thought he was nailed on for English player of the year...

 

[clarkydaz]

His first game for us against Southampton, he was phenomenal. I thought he was nailed on for English player of the year...

yeah that game was bizarre. Supposedly rusty aswell with no full pre season

 

[Stacks]

I don't think it would bother me nearly as much if his performances or at least mentality on the pitch backed it up. It doesn't even come close at the moment though.

He prats around in games when he shouldn't. He fluffs his lines at the first hint of pressure. He costs his team goals. He turns up to a game against his team's main rivals, and puts in a MOTM performance...for them.

Basically, either start backing up the self hype, or cut it the feck out. When we're top of the league and flying in Europe because of Paul Pogba, THEN he can start acting like he's the big it.

This is what Rio and that were saying about Pogba and Lingard and I was outraged at the suggestion. But I am starting to see from the ex pro's position, why they say this. Someone made the comparison between Memphis and Aubemeyang and how their respective differences in performance lead to different allowances.

I guess it gives some people a bad taste as of course the football is the primary focus and if someone performs better in their social media/social life than their actual job, it looks suspect. doesn't actually mean they aren't trying or the 2 correlate, but its how people tend to think, that's all

 

[noodlehair]

This is what Rio and that were saying about Pogba and Lingard and I was outraged at the suggestion. But I am starting to see from the ex pro's position, why they say this. Someone made the comparison between Memphis and Aubemeyang and how their respective differences in performance lead to different allowances.

I guess it gives some people a bad taste as of course the football is the primary focus and if someone performs better in their social media/social life than their actual job, it looks suspect. doesn't actually mean they aren't trying or the 2 correlate, but its how people tend to think, that's all

I'm not saying he isn't trying, but he's definitely not performing.

If you're mentality, focus and drive on the pitch is spot on, and if you're good enough, you can get away with acting like a show pony away from the pitch, because no one can say you don't back it up. People can not like you for it, but that's it.

With Pogba, he doesn't play with the mentality, focus and drive of a winner, and he doesn't perform like one either. So the show ponying just makes him look deluded and makes him and by extension his team, a target for ridicule. It makes him a bit of a laughing stock to be honest. He's a legitimate target for people to point at and say "look at him, what a fecking idiot"

The potential in terms of ability is there, but he needs to either sort his mentality and maturity on the pitch out, or cut out the childish dicking around away from the pitch. Preferably both.

His arsing around off the pitch is written all over everything he does on the pitch. The silly 40 yard shots, the dicking around trying to showboat in his own half or in pointless situations. The brainfarts when the opposition are in possession. They're the main things that hold him back in terms of his performance.

He's not the finished article but he's not some 18 year old flashy teenager either. He's a grown adult man. It's time he stopped acting like he's still the cool kid in the playground.

 

[Minimalist]

Speaks volumes that Mourinho has had to say something.

 

[PhilMcD79]

Are the Pogba apologists ready to accept now that he is having a wholly underwhelming season and that's regardless of the inflated expectations due to his price tag. Before the transfer he was being touted as a world class talent. What we have seen so far is an occasional flat track bully who has brought no influence to bare in any game of significance.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Not his biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination, but he's probably put in the most minutes for us out of all our squad, and we've played the most games from a Premier League side to this point.
I feel like he could use a rest, especially with a short summer break due to the Euro's, sadly Mourinho isn't noted for rotating.

 

[Offside]

I've never seen a player so inconsistent, but within a game! Inconsistent players like Nani when he was young would be poor one week and amazing the next.

With Pogba, he will play a world class pass one minute and the next he will have an air-shot.

Dabbing needs to stop and he needs to focus on his game. The potential is defotrly there.