He was dreadful again last night. Sure, he can't do much against an all-action midfield a man down but I'd still expect something from the world's most expensive player. Needs to raise his game bigtime.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 51
- Goals
- 9
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 10
- Status
Just as a barometer for comparison here is Pogba vs Kroos vs Thiago vs Verratti. Four players having good seasons, who are seen as key central midfielders for their clubs, who are expected to contribute to both defence and attack, without being either 10s, ball-winning midfielders or anchor men. They would all likely cost a world record fee or close to it to be acquired too.
Pogba
The whole Pogba diatribe is frankly ludicrous. I'm disappointed with his output, but he's doing what he needs to in order to contribute a high level of goals and assists. It'll come. Unfortunately, whilst he's having a cold finishing streak himself, he's also trying to assist a man and indeed an entire team in a similar predicament.
Pogba
- #1 for shots
- #3 for shots in box;
- #9 for successful dribbles;
- #13 accurate long passes;
- #16 for key passes;
- #18 for passes;
- #21 for aerial duels won;
- #181 for tackles
- #201 for interceptions
- #63 for shots
- #100 for shots in box;
- #49 for successful dribbles;
- #1 accurate long passes;
- #2 for key passes;
- #22 for passes;
- #207 for aerial duels won;
- #91 for tackles
- #179 for interceptions
- #104 for shots
- #104 for shots in box;
- #13 for successful dribbles;
- #2 accurate long passes;
- #25 for key passes;
- #3 for passes;
- #83 for aerial duels won;
- #86 for tackles
- #1 for interceptions
- #226 for shots
- #193 for shots in box;
- #11 for successful dribbles;
- #32 accurate long passes;
- #22 for key passes;
- #4 for passes;
- #223 for aerial duels won;
- #18 for tackles
- #212 for interceptions
The whole Pogba diatribe is frankly ludicrous. I'm disappointed with his output, but he's doing what he needs to in order to contribute a high level of goals and assists. It'll come. Unfortunately, whilst he's having a cold finishing streak himself, he's also trying to assist a man and indeed an entire team in a similar predicament.
Is it really that wrong or misguided to expect him to dominate or be a much bigger influence than what he often provides?
I don't expect him to score or give an assist every game but I do expect him to be more of a presence and one of the main players we look towards when needing inspiration.
I don't expect him to score or give an assist every game but I do expect him to be more of a presence and one of the main players we look towards when needing inspiration.
How was he supposed to dominate in a match like yesterday when, after the red, every time the defenders recovered the ball they just hoofed it past him and prayed for it to somehow find our lone forward. And the times he got it, there was no one in sight making a move to received it.
You really should be careful about using these ratings lists to try and prove that Pogba is actually better than he appears because once again when you look closely you see a world of difference in quality:
Kroos is number 1 for accurate long passes AND number 2 for key passes = absolutely top class midfielder
Thiago is number 2 for accurate long passes, number 3 for passes and number 1 for interceptions = absolutely top class midfielder
Pogba and Veratti are nowhere near them in those terms (and in the ratings that imo matter most for a midfielder)
Why is a Spurs fan so hell bent on knocking Pogba at every opportunity? Serious question.
I'm not just talking about yesterday's game, more his season so far in general.
I'm just pointing out what the ratings show, nothing to it more than that. I'm not the one putting them up remember. I was also showing how Veratti is hugely overrated also.
I kind of meant your posts in here in general. They all appear quite negative; well the ones I've come across anyway.
Will you participate much in the main Pogba thread if he comes good next season? I understand rivals are loving the fact that he's been quite underwhelming but it'll be interesting to see who says what about him next season if starts to flourish.
@TMDaines
CM is probably the position in football where stats are the most double edged.
For example shots per game. Shooting a lot as a CM can often mean that your attack is dysfunctional or that you are a selfish twat who destroys a lot of attacks in their tracks.
So you list #1 in shots at a good thing, but you ignore that he only scored four league goals in 2250 minutes, while Thiago, who is #104 for shots scored three goals in 1700 minutes.
I don't have to think twice which shots stat impresses me more.
It's similar for dribbles. Too many of them can be a sign of selfishness and bad decision making and the way some teams are set up the CMs aren't supposed to dribble a lot, except for clutch situations. I'd also say that successful dribble% is just as important since a loss of possession in a central position during build up often leads to very threatening counter attacks against an unorganized defense.
CM is probably the position in football where stats are the most double edged.
For example shots per game. Shooting a lot as a CM can often mean that your attack is dysfunctional or that you are a selfish twat who destroys a lot of attacks in their tracks.
So you list #1 in shots at a good thing, but you ignore that he only scored four league goals in 2250 minutes, while Thiago, who is #104 for shots scored three goals in 1700 minutes.
I don't have to think twice which shots stat impresses me more.
It's similar for dribbles. Too many of them can be a sign of selfishness and bad decision making and the way some teams are set up the CMs aren't supposed to dribble a lot, except for clutch situations. I'd also say that successful dribble% is just as important since a loss of possession in a central position during build up often leads to very threatening counter attacks against an unorganized defense.
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Yeah of course, I'm fair and if he starts putting in top class performances regularly then I'll be talking about it in glowing terms. So far he has been extremely disappointing and unfortunately some folk are grasping at straws using ratings, stats, etc. to try and prove something that isn't there and all I'm doing is looking at what they are posting and pointing out the flaws in their points. It's a debate.
Ok fair enough, I was just genuinely curious.
He's been a big reason why our midfield has improved and we've looked far stronger on the ball and created so many chances this season. He hasn't dominated like we would have wanted but that would have been more of a surprise than the norm given the situation we've been in, he certainly isn't the problem. Herrera is his only legit partner in midfield, everyone else has big question marks. Question marks also abound in defense. Going forward we have the talent but have been terrible at finishing. He has a target on his back with the money, but you expect the opposition to be the ones going for him and not our own fans.
Yes, because he is not that kind of midfielder.
He was brought here to develop his game under Mourinho, we need to stop making that excuse. He wants to become that player and I hope he does.
Needs to pull his finger out and get more involved in games, it's very visible that he isn't used to taking responsibility having had his hand held by Vidal, Marchisio and Pirlo at Juve not to mention generally playing in a league where he has time on the ball which is why he still dallies on it too much. At the moment he really is playing more like Bouba Diop and Diame than what we were hoping he would be i.e a Vieira or even Yaya Toure.
Pleas tell me what kind of midfielder he is then?
I think his biggest problem is that he doesn't seem to have a definite role in the team, perhaps in time he could have a free role, but for now I think Jose should sit him down and work on a specific role and position that suit him. To me he seem to drift around as the game passes him by, not really knowing what's going on, and I don't think this is only his fault.
If some posters here are right, and that he actually believes his own hype, and doesn't actually apply himself, but rather believes he can get by on the back of his 'talent' then he will never be a great player though. Guess next season will be telling.
If some posters here are right, and that he actually believes his own hype, and doesn't actually apply himself, but rather believes he can get by on the back of his 'talent' then he will never be a great player though. Guess next season will be telling.
What's the basis for those rankings? The club, the league, all of Europe?
This would be useful if you relied on arbitry stats and did not see the player actually play. In fact I find these stats pretty useless there. These stats focus on very specific actions and ignore all other aspects of the game. According to Whoscored.com Pogba is the best CM in world football ever when clearly he isn't. You have also compared him to players who occupy a different role/job to him.
What about their decision making? dicating abilities, how many times they didn't track their man? how many times they broke up their attacks? were dispossed? disappeared from games, shyed away in important matches?
Pogba is #1 for shots in and out of the box - what does that mean? He hasn't scored many goals so I guess hes not a good finisher.
#9 for successful dribbles. How often does he actually hurt/scare opponents with his dribbling ability or how often is it in moments where he does a drag back on the halfway line that looks good on the highlight reel? I wouldn't regard it a weapon
#13 for accurate long passes - This I agree, his long range passing is very good.
#18 for passes - Is that completion or passes made? Why is passes made mean you are a good passer?
#16 for key passes - what's a key pass?
#21 for aerial duels - he is 6"4
#181 for tackles
# 201 for interceptions
If I just relied on these arbitrary stats, I would conclude he is an attacking midfield player who offers little defensive contribution, is a good passer, poor finisher and can dribble out of tight spaces (tactical dribble). Sounds more like Fabregas to be fair.
If Pogba is going to provide goals and assists only, surely there are/will be more specialist players who can do this? Also, from what position will he do this, Left and slightly forward of a midfield 3?
So basically an attacking midfielder/10 that doesn't quite play in a 10? There are more creative attacking midfield players out there. Why not just play 4-2-3-1 and have Mikitaryan as an AMC as he provides genuine thrust through the middle and has proven he can nick goals. Eriksen, Sigurdson have offered more league goals, assists and chances created than Pogba. Both also have superior shooting accuracy. The point is, there are always specialist players who can get you goals/assists from non striker positions.
When you pay £90m you expect to be purchasing a top class player. He simply hasn't performed at all this season in my opinion. I was expecting a box to box midfielder in the style of Yaya Toure but he is nowhere near that. Can anyone really remember a stand out performance? Every match is a 5/6 out of 10.
His constant trying to overpower his opponent rather than releasing the ball is slowing our forward play and allows the opponent to double up on him. Every top 5 side this season have stopped him by doubling up. Maybe with a better midfield partner he will be better next year as they won't be able to worry about just one midfielder in the big games.
It's no coincidence Carrick has not started for a few weeks and Pogba has gone missing again.
His constant trying to overpower his opponent rather than releasing the ball is slowing our forward play and allows the opponent to double up on him. Every top 5 side this season have stopped him by doubling up. Maybe with a better midfield partner he will be better next year as they won't be able to worry about just one midfielder in the big games.
It's no coincidence Carrick has not started for a few weeks and Pogba has gone missing again.
Before the red card he was doing well without being the standout player and winning some tackles. After the red card he had three Chelsea players around him every time he got the ball.
I think he developed quite a bit already, but that is not my point. There was a vocal minority during the transfer-saga that made various points:
1) He is not a playmaker in the mold of Kroos, Modric, Thiago, Carzola, Gündogan et al., who control games. (or a DLP like Alonso/Carrick). That is simply not his strong-suit
2) Despite his impressive athletic appearance, he is also not a particularly combative midfielder like Khedira, Fernandinho, Kante, Vidal (or Herrera) et al.
3) He is not a classic offensive minded playmaker like KdB or Özil either.
He has a very unique skill-set, that doesn’t fit into the few very descriptions that we usually use to label players. Juventus made great use of him by giving him a very specific (free) role that most teams don’t have. He was their offensive lucky-charm, but not somebody they needed minute-by-minute to make their team function. Occasionally he did fantastic things, but they were fine when Pogba disappeared for 45 minutes, because other players were far more influential. Players like Pirlo, Vidal or Marchisio.
In our team the situation is almost the exact opposite. He is supposed to be the central figure in everything we do. Without Carrick, he needs to bring out the ball from deep, but we also expect him to unlock defensives. If he goes missing, we have nobody who can compensate for that. We still see him doing “special” things (e.g. the balls over the top; some of his runs with the ball; some of his shooting, despite only hitting the posts), but he struggles to be a constant presence for 90 minutes each game in our midfield. He never did this in the past and he has to learn it. I think he is fairly rounded, but he’ll never turn into a player like Kroos.
In many ways he is a bit like a raw version of Yaya without being heavily influenced by the Barca school of football. City often struggled to find the perfect role for him. (Yaya was able to be a DLP, but he learned that imo to some extend during his time in Barcelona; he often was a defensive liability for City in this role).
I think it is unreasonable to expect stuff that he never did. Mourinho and the board are idiots if they bought him as play-maker, because you get better players for a fraction of the price. He can fill that role to some extent, but fans will understandably be quite underwhelmed by that.
He's been pretty poor central midfielder against the high standards we set, then.
Playing in the most advanced role for a midfield 3 that's not really a 10, what does he do then? A link man between midfield and the front 3? We paid 90milion for a "central midfielder" who can't even operate in a midfield 2.
He actually played as a box to box in those games, him and Herrera were box to box with Carrick holding.
I think he is trying too hard to force the game and overthink what he is doing.
When Pogba plays naturally he looks far far better.
When Pogba plays naturally he looks far far better.
I actually thought Pogba played well in the beginning
Harsh but perhaps a nub of truth in it?
He needs to work harder, that's the core of it.
He made a brilliant tackle on hazard and looked lively prior to Herrera's sending off. After that he was diabolical.
Sorry but it just sounds like a bunch of excuses to cover up the fact that he's been poor far too often, considering how much of an influence he was supposed to be.
His price tag will always be a problem but saying that you've bought a midfielder who can't do this or can't do that sounds like a desperate attempt to defend how ineffective he's been.
Can we rename this thread - Bash Pogba to the point where it gets boring
We had 10 men against arguable the best team in the prem, it definitely wasn't his worst performance, I'd say one of his better defensive performances, we looked better than them up until the sending off. We lost because of the refs harsh sending off, yes was a foul but wasn't another yellow. The 343 of Chelsea becomes an overkill of attacking players vs 10 men. You fickle fans saying sell him to Madrid, worst ever signing and the rest of that bollox, Will more then likely be raving about him when he gets going next season. Why comment? It's so boring now, you guys specifically watch out for Pogba and remember the wrong things he did to post a sh!tty comment in here, watch the game, he didn't play bad at all. Get a grip
We had 10 men against arguable the best team in the prem, it definitely wasn't his worst performance, I'd say one of his better defensive performances, we looked better than them up until the sending off. We lost because of the refs harsh sending off, yes was a foul but wasn't another yellow. The 343 of Chelsea becomes an overkill of attacking players vs 10 men. You fickle fans saying sell him to Madrid, worst ever signing and the rest of that bollox, Will more then likely be raving about him when he gets going next season. Why comment? It's so boring now, you guys specifically watch out for Pogba and remember the wrong things he did to post a sh!tty comment in here, watch the game, he didn't play bad at all. Get a grip
Most of them are just Rooney fans getting their revenge on somebody else TBH.
He wasn't great but he wasn't bad either, no worse than any other player out there at least.
Funny thing was he was bossing Kante until that red card, didn't even know he was playing until he piped up with the goal. Ever since that point it was a Kante wankathon. Pathetic
I think it's a bit unfair to single him out for something like that. His idea to cover for Fellaini was correct, but when the rest of the team consists of a passive back 6 then you can only look bad as a midfielder, if the team had more cohesion one of the 4 CBs would've helped out.
Ha. First time somebody accuses me that I defend him. I am annoyed by all the people who hyped him to no end and are now complaining about his performances. In reality he performs roughly like he did for Juventus, just in a very different role, that doesn’t suit him.
My biggest problem is the amount of touches he has. If it's easier to play off a second touch he will always try three or four. It's the over playing that I find frustrating. Hes a liability as a holding or defensive midfielder aswell.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pogba has started 104 games for club and country since the start of last season. It's a shitload of football.</p>— Daniel Storey (@danielstorey85) <a href="">March 13, 2017</a></blockquote>
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This explains it all. He clearly needs rest.
International break is coming up next week and France play Luxembourg for which he is suspended anyway and a pointless friendly with Spain. I really hope Mourinho has a word with Deschamps to not call him up and give Pogba a 2-week vacation to recharge his batteries.
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This explains it all. He clearly needs rest.
International break is coming up next week and France play Luxembourg for which he is suspended anyway and a pointless friendly with Spain. I really hope Mourinho has a word with Deschamps to not call him up and give Pogba a 2-week vacation to recharge his batteries.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...a-manchester-united-latest-news-a7628681.html
Mourinho says he was the best player on the pitch. Clearly a part of that is defending him, but he absolutely wasn't as bad as some are making on here.
Mourinho says he was the best player on the pitch. Clearly a part of that is defending him, but he absolutely wasn't as bad as some are making on here.
This feels incredibly accurate based on evidence and I think people felt his value was that he can "do a bit of everything" which in reality is difficult to accommodate.
I do agree that Yaya has similar traits and could be a defensive liability, hence why City shoehorned him into the 10 role when they had guys like Nasri and Silva!
so it depends on what Pogba wants to become.
I also commented earlier that you can acquire specialist playmakers/scorers for 1/3 of the price, who are more capable and indeed I am curious as to how much Jose knew about Pogba's actual game and the planning that went into his purchase. Jose said he gives names to the club to buy, not positions/roles. It is a bit confusing, as it would appear that the buzz was that Pogba is a great CM, therefore we want him but haven't really understood the tactical nuances that are needed to implement him effectively.
The constant shifting of positions is also concerning. People say we have been crying out for a marquee midfielder which is true, and I guess they wanted one that had a bit more defined of a role
If this explains it all then Mourinho must be a horrible manager, and I don't think he is a horrible manager.
- Status