Patrick Dorgu | Medical today? No. Weekend.

I really wish we didn't saddle such a young player with a notable transfer fee while seemingly arriving alone this window. I can only hope his head and support structure is prepared for the stage.
 
VP89 said:
For his experience he really doesn't fit into that sort of pricing.
Click to expand...
Did Lewis Hall do much before his transfer? Lewis Hall had 10 games at Chelsea, Livramento 1 season at Southampton. Nuno Mendes had 1 season at Sporting before going to PSG (better prospect though), Maatsen was a squad player at Dortmund and before that a bunch of loans in the championship... It's pretty much in line with those I'd say.
 
DJ_21 said:
yes. That’s exactly what wins you games. Arsenal will tell you that. They’ve signed a ton of midfielders and defenders but no ST and they’re paying the price for it.
Click to expand...
If your assertion is that defenders have no influence on results then we’re done here.
 
I hope he does well if he arrives, the manager and staff above him seem certain he’s the one they want, so let’s try to get behind him.
I have no idea how ready he will be, it will be interesting when he gets his first start. At his age it wouldn’t surprise me if we manage him like we have Yoro.
 
bosnian_red said:
Did Lewis Hall do much before his transfer? Lewis Hall had 10 games at Chelsea, Livramento 1 season at Southampton. Nuno Mendes had 1 season at Sporting before going to PSG (better prospect though), Maatsen was a squad player at Dortmund and before that a bunch of loans in the championship... It's pretty much in line with those I'd say.
Click to expand...
People just like to be negative.
 
Teja said:
It's the opposite right? The rest were much more proven entities.
Click to expand...
Hall, Livramento, Nuno Mendes and Maatsen were definitely not more proven, at best equally unproven but really only Maatsen had more first team football as he had lower league loans. They're similar levels of being unproven and going for 30-40m.
 
HowltheChampion said:
I really wish we didn't saddle such a young player with a notable transfer fee while seemingly arriving alone this window. I can only hope his head and support structure is prepared for the stage.
Click to expand...

Yeah ideally we could get a more experienced player on a loan deal like a Luiz too so he's not the only one
 
£24m up front isn’t bad, pretty sure it’ll somehow be 50m before the end of the week though
 
Berbaclass said:
People just like to be negative.
Click to expand...
Yeah I was hesitant on the 40m number at first, and it's pretty close to that still but comparing to the others, pretty much in line. It's fine to good if he's a solid PL level wingback to better, but obviously if he flops then it's a shit signing.

To give Ineos some credit, I do think it's miles better to focus your signings on players who are in the 20's/30's/40's range which they seem to be focusing on rather than the 60m+ risks just because that's the one they want. Unless it's a truly top player... Better to avoid spending that much.
 
I've seen him a bit, I do have faith that he will end up a good player but for the immediate future I dont think he'll do a lot for us. He'll play but like the other players we were linked with im sure he'll make mistakes defensively. All the players we were linked with do and werent great defenders first and foremost. At least with Dorgu statistically he does win the ball plenty. So we should see some good ball winning despite any defensive errors. One that I saw watching highlights of Lecce was that a player was stronger than him and was able to head the ball in on a set piece despite Dorgu having good height and looking quite strong on the ball at times.

He also made a mistake when I was watching Lecce this weekend like several posters were in Lecce's 4-0 defeat to Inter. He plays a square pass thats intercepted and poked into the path of Lautaro Martinez who then dribbles and smashes it home. Just a poor decision and pass thats jumped on.

I think he will have been signed for going forward with the idea he can give us a bit of what Amad gives from wingback. He's looked quite good making runs behind the defence and when he goes through hes taken his goals with both feet. Not sure this strength will be utilized from wingback but it can be done as Frimpong got forward to score plenty from wingback and Amad has done it too. I suspect it might be something we might see more of if hes given the chance to play in an attacking role occasionally. From watching at the weekend I didnt exactly see him running his socks off backwards and forwards covering the whole side so I remain skeptical about overall running down the flank. Not sure he'll match Dalot's effort to get back and go forward and I dont think hes as fast either.

2 man midfield said:
£24m up front isn’t bad, pretty sure it’ll somehow be 50m before the end of the week though
Click to expand...

Its certainly closer to what hes worth at this stage than £30 million but hes still not a £24 million player and may not be for a few years
 
I occasionally spent some time learning about him since the rumours started and I can't say I've been particularly impressed. He will add some much needed intensity and physicality to the team, but his skill on the ball leaves much to be desired, particularly passing is terrible, which is another big issue for this team. He has ways to go, which is all well and good considering his age, but I struggle to see him making the impact United desperately need in the wing back department right now. I think he will be a very frustrating player for the time being.

The financials look reasonable I guess. I just hope this doesn't mean not trying for Rayan Aït-Nouri in the summer.
 
slyadams said:
If your assertion is that defenders have no influence on results then we’re done here.
Click to expand...
Obviously not. What’s that famous saying.. think Fergie used it a few times. Defence wins you titles. Attack wins you games.
 
bosnian_red said:
Did Lewis Hall do much before his transfer? Lewis Hall had 10 games at Chelsea, Livramento 1 season at Southampton. Nuno Mendes had 1 season at Sporting before going to PSG (better prospect though), Maatsen was a squad player at Dortmund and before that a bunch of loans in the championship... It's pretty much in line with those I'd say.
Click to expand...
All looked extremely good and very well polished in their games.

Does Dorgu even have 10 games as a wingback or left back? Before we consider if he is looking as good as they were
 
Ekeke said:
I've seen him a bit, I do have faith that he will end up a good player but for the immediate future I dont think he'll do a lot for us. He'll play but like the other players we were linked with im sure he'll make mistakes defensively. All the players we were linked with do and werent great defenders first and foremost. At least with Dorgu statistically he does win the ball plenty. So we should see some good ball winning despite any defensive errors. One that I saw watching highlights of Lecce was that a player was stronger than him and was able to head the ball in on a set piece despite Dorgu having good height and looking quite strong on the ball at times.

He also made a mistake when I was watching Lecce this weekend like several posters were in Lecce's 4-0 defeat to Inter. He plays a square pass thats intercepted and poked into the path of Lautaro Martinez who then dribbles and smashes it home. Just a poor decision and pass thats jumped on.

I think he will have been signed for going forward with the idea he can give us a bit of what Amad gives from wingback. He's looked quite good making runs behind the defence and when he goes through hes taken his goals with both feet. Not sure this strength will be utilized from wingback but it can be done as Frimpong got forward to score plenty from wingback and Amad has done it too. I suspect it might be something we might see more of if hes given the chance to play in an attacking role occasionally. From watching at the weekend I didnt exactly see him running his socks off backwards and forwards covering the whole side so I remain skeptical about overall running down the flank. Not sure he'll match Dalot's effort to get back and go forward and I dont think hes as fast either.



Its certainly closer to what hes worth at this stage than £30 million but hes still not a £24 million player and may not be for a few years
Click to expand...
We are paying for potential.
 
horsechoker said:
Is this a "he raises the floor" rather than "he raises the ceiling" type of signing?
Click to expand...

I think he's a top signing for a prem team.

He's tall enough and physical enough to be able to defend set pieces, he can dribble and carry the ball and he can also put in a cross and provide width.

He's the first real player that would allow the formation to actually work, and a player like Amad or Bruno behind a striker to tuck in and not pull wide.
 
VP89 said:
All looked extremely good and very well polished in their games.

Does Dorgu even have 10 games as a wingback or left back? Before we consider if he is looking as good as they were
Click to expand...
People mention his versatility as a big bonus, but on the other hand it means he's even less experienced in the actual position we want him for
 
bosnian_red said:
Yeah I was hesitant on the 40m number at first, and it's pretty close to that still but comparing to the others, pretty much in line. It's fine to good if he's a solid PL level wingback to better, but obviously if he flops then it's a shit signing.

To give Ineos some credit, I do think it's miles better to focus your signings on players who are in the 20's/30's/40's range which they seem to be focusing on rather than the 60m+ risks just because that's the one they want. Unless it's a truly top player... Better to avoid spending that much.
Click to expand...

The bolded part is key. Personally I don't have an opinion on the player because I don't know enough to have a strong opinion but the price range we are talking about isn't good if there is a legitimate reason to question if the player will be solid and this is true for the less experienced players that you listed, their fees weren't good either. Now it doesn't prevent anyone from being positive and have faith that he will be solid or even great. But the accumulation of these expensive high risk, high rewards players is why we are in an unfavorable financial situation.

And no the range of price that you mention isn't miles better especially when you are close to the 40s, it's like microtransactions, people are comfortable with these fees because they don't look like much but when you accumulate them they quickly become extremely expensive. Unless you have a high success rate which isn't common.
 
horsechoker said:
Is this a "he raises the floor" rather than "he raises the ceiling" type of signing?
Click to expand...

I'd say he would raise the floor as we are held back in attack with the fullbacks we have now. Amorims set up really demands a player like this, who gets forward and attacks space and can handle taking touches in the oppo's final third.
 
Never seen the guy play so not going to comment on his suitability, but if this goes ahead it doesn't look good for Harry Amass
 
Berbaclass said:
We are paying for potential.
Click to expand...

Sure. And we'll pay a lot in the 2-3 years waiting for it to happen, while our current team needs solutions now

I think its a bit like the Amad signing. It might eventually be worth it several years down the line but in the meantime its a decent amount of money, especially with FFP constraints and talking of selling our highest potential young players. And it'll be like a 5% improvement when we need to see a large improvement in our team.
 
Definitely biased as a Dane here. Expecting to be fully Dane-less in 1,5 years if he doesnt join.

But.. im quite happy. I see him as a Malacia replacement. A new number 2 on that spot.

Number 1 needs to be signed later. He isnt shaw. But were not signing healthy Shaw-caliber in January with so many areas that needs fixing and a strict spending max before we offload some of the 'unlucky' signings.

I think he can do a decent job running up that left hand side for the next year to year and a half.
 
Telsim said:
I occasionally spent some time learning about him since the rumours started and I can't say I've been particularly impressed. He will add some much needed intensity and physicality to the team, but his skill on the ball leaves much to be desired, particularly passing is terrible, which is another big issue for this team. He has ways to go, which is all well and good considering his age, but I struggle to see him making the impact United desperately need in the wing back department right now. I think he will be a very frustrating player for the time being.

The financials look reasonable I guess. I just hope this doesn't mean not trying for Rayan Aït-Nouri in the summer.
Click to expand...

I think it will mean not trying for Ait-Nouri, the reality is we have to find some cheaper players for some positions in order to have money to spend elsewhere.

His age, a fee of 25m and cheap wages means if he doesn’t develop over next 2-3 years we can move on from him. In order to find value we are going to have to take some risks and also invest some time in players.

Another point is we are paying top wages for a LB who can’t stay fit, fact we have brought in 2 cheaper options in Dorgu and Leon is a reflection that there has to be a budget.
 
horsechoker said:
Is this a "he raises the floor" rather than "he raises the ceiling" type of signing?
Click to expand...
Reasonable expectation in his first year is that he's better than what we have but being 20 id hope there's a lot more untapped potential to come.
 
Santos J said:
Can't believe we're paying 60m for him
Click to expand...

Normally Utd fans complain about the press exaggerating the fees we’ve paid, for some reason it’s been fans exaggerating the fee on this transfer. I have no idea why there has been such an obsession over it.
 
Red in STL said:
Never seen the guy play so not going to comment on his suitability, but if this goes ahead it doesn't look good for Harry Amass
Click to expand...

I would not think it impacts Harry much, he is due to head out on loan this week to get some first team experience and will probably be integrated into the first team squad for next season. Malacia is surplus to requirements and even if Shaw returns to fitness he is more likely to be used as a LCB so Dorgu and Amass would be the two for the LWB position next year if they develop as we hope.
 
So its £25m plus £6m in potential bonuses.

Contract worth £31k a week, rising to £50k a week in year 5.

We probably overpaid by £5m on upfront fee due to January tax. But overall, his wages are cheap, so he can easily be sold if it doesn't work out.

Not sure how people can complain about this deal tbh. Seems sensible.
 
FriedClams said:
When are we replacing Dalot?
Click to expand...
Summer id imagine. What would he options be? Quenda or Dumfries maybe.

Not too sure if both of Amorims wing backs are built on pace and power or he looks for different attributes.
 
Gandalf said:
I would not think it impacts Harry much, he is due to head out on loan this week to get some first team experience and will probably be integrated into the first team squad for next season. Malacia is surplus to requirements and even if Shaw returns to fitness he is more likely to be used as a LCB so Dorgu and Amass would be the two for the LWB position next year if they develop as we hope.
Click to expand...
And Diego Leon
 
JJ12 said:
Summer id imagine. What would he options be? Quenda or Dumfries maybe.

Not too sure if both of Amorims wing backs are built on pace and power or he looks for different attributes.
Click to expand...

Or Frimpong. Ideal to get players comfortable with the system already, which is why I’m a tad sceptical of dorgu. We are basically hoping he can fulfil a role he’s never played.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.