Patrick Dorgu | Medical today? No. Weekend.

Berbaclass said:
You obviously have made your mind up already so fine, agree to disagree.

He's obviously highly rated by the club which is why they have shuffled some finances around to bring this deal forward and try and get this done. I'm quite happy to trust the opinion of guys like Wilcox, Vivell etc over you.

I think he's exactly the type of profile that we need for that role.
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I agree.
 
I mean whether you believe he'll be the solution or not, €40m is obviously overpaying. Maybe it ends up being worth it and maybe it won't, but this is not a sensible valuation. And Lecce don't owe us a realistic valuation
 
Berbaclass said:
You obviously have made your mind up already so fine, agree to disagree.

He's obviously highly rated by the club which is why they have shuffled some finances around to bring this deal forward and try and get this done. I'm quite happy to trust the opinion of guys like Wilcox, Vivell etc over you.

I think he's exactly the type of profile that we need for that role.
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I’m glad you have trust in guys like Vivell and Wilcox but ask yourself the question, what major things have they done in football for you to have so much trust in them? The past years have shown us that just because these guys sit in the corporate seats wearing the club ties, doesn’t mean they know the first thing about recruitment. We are in the situation we are in because of people like them making poor decisions.
 
hellhunter said:
I mean whether you believe he'll be the solution or not, 40m is obviously overpaying. Maybe it ends up being worth it and maybe it won't, but this is not a sensible valuation. And Lecce don't owe us a realistic valuation
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£33 million if we meet their asking price which won't necessarily happen.
 
VP89 said:
I think you are underestimating the fact that he has barely played wingback so there is nothing to suggest he's an improvement. 40m is a panic buy, plain and simple.
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Watch how Amorim used his wing backs at Sporting, they are basically playing as wingers and are often positioning them selfs just as high up the pitch as the 3 central attackers. Amad has been our best player since Amorim arrived playing in this exact role and he didn't have much experience as a wing back either. We don't have a single player in the squad able to play this role on the left and Dorgu would solve that.
 
gulli_G said:
€5m is nothing for us, we can afford that. We are going to end up with a Fellaini like situation, if we're not careful.
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5million is not nothing. If it was we wouldn’t be trying to desperately sell our best young players to get together a few quid to make one signing. This is embarrassing stuff.

Walk away and save your money for the summer.
 
gulli_G said:
He will be, Ruben has said he prefers to play attackers in those positions but is only playing defenders due to lack of time to teach wingers to defend.

Dorgu is primarily a winger who has done adequate in defence, he will no worse defensively than Amad at defending, I believe he will be much better.

Watch Four Four Two's video on Dorgu, he explains much better than me.
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I've gone out of my way to actually watch Dorgu wherever I can find all touch videos, and can see what he's good at and can improve on. Four Four Two always do this, make theoretical hype videos before a transfer or incoming manager joins and then tee up the "what went wrong for xyz" after.

From watching a few all touch videos he gave me some Wan Bissaka of Palace vibes - physical, likes to slide in, akward dribbling style but likes to maraud forward. Wan Bissaka also used to be a forward from their academy.

I reckon Dorgu would be better of course, and he'll be comfortable going forward. But he's not a creator and his crossing is average - so going forward there's not a lot of end product that shows immediate conviction. As I said, he doesn't look like he offers much more than Malacia for the remainder of the season.

Berbaclass said:
You obviously have made your mind up already so fine, agree to disagree.

He's obviously highly rated by the club which is why they have shuffled some finances around to bring this deal forward and try and get this done. I'm quite happy to trust the opinion of guys like Wilcox, Vivell etc over you.

I think he's exactly the type of profile that we need for that role.
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The club have been a bit shit with transfers, outside of opportunistic signings. So I'll use that as a general hint that we are panicking unless they can prove me otherwise.
I dont have a problem with him as a target, or a profile. I'm not saying don't sign him. I'm saying don't panic.
 
VP89 said:
The club have been a bit shit with transfers, outside of opportunistic signings. So I'll use that as a general hint that we are panicking unless they can prove me otherwise.
I dont have a problem with him as a target, or a profile. I'm not saying don't sign him. I'm saying don't panic.
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You realise that there are now entirely new recruitment people in place right?
 
Berbaclass said:
You realise that there are now entirely new recruitment people in place right?
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Yes, and so they have to prove themselves. Saying "I trust these guys" blindly would be daft.

I trust them too but that doesn't mean I wouldn't raise a massive eyebrow if they were to pay 40m for a raw wing back who has hardly played wingback, often played on the right wing and sometimes at left back, who would be available cheaper in the summer.

For what its worth I dont think we will throw 40m at him in Jan. I think our recruitment is smarter than that.
 
VP89 said:
Yes, and so they have to prove themselves. Saying "I trust these guys" blindly would be daft.

I trust them too but that doesn't mean I wouldn't raise a massive eyebrow if they were to pay 40m for a raw wing back who has hardly played wingback, often played on the right wing and sometimes at left back, who would be available cheaper in the summer.
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Why are you quoting 40 million?

If we pay what they want it would be £33 million.
 
It’s hilarious how we have to bend to a selling club’s demands whenever we want someone, but are also expected to be the ones to bend when selling someone ourselves.
 
Pav1878 said:
I’m glad you have trust in guys like Vivell and Wilcox but ask yourself the question, what major things have they done in football for you to have so much trust in them? The past years have shown us that just because these guys sit in the corporate seats wearing the club ties, doesn’t mean they know the first thing about recruitment. We are in the situation we are in because of people like them making poor decisions.
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Some of our latest signings have made some sense no? Since the new guys came in.
Ugarte, Mazraoui, De ligt, Yoro, Zirkzee
 
Gordon S said:
Some of our latest signings have made some sense no? Since the new guys came in.
Ugarte, Mazraoui, De ligt, Yoro, Zirkzee
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A Yoro we apparently couldn't really afford and Zirkzee. Not great, not terrible. Also responsible for the ETH extension and the Ashworth debacle. Don't hold your breath
 
hellhunter said:
A Yoro we apparently couldn't really afford and Zirkzee. Not great, not terrible. Also responsible for the ETH extension and the Ashworth debacle. Don't hold your breath
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Wilcox and Vivell are responsible for ETH and Ashworth? How?

The recruitment that we have done in the last window has been good.

Ugarte, Mazraoui and De Ligt are good players and Zirkzee and Yoro I don't think should be written off. Yoro especially.
 
VP89 said:
I've gone out of my way to actually watch Dorgu wherever I can find all touch videos, and can see what he's good at and can improve on. Four Four Two always do this, make theoretical hype videos before a transfer or incoming manager joins and then tee up the "what went wrong for xyz" after.

From watching a few all touch videos he gave me some Wan Bissaka of Palace vibes - physical, likes to slide in, akward dribbling style but likes to maraud forward. Wan Bissaka also used to be a forward from their academy.

I reckon Dorgu would be better of course, and he'll be comfortable going forward. But he's not a creator and his crossing is average - so going forward there's not a lot of end product that shows immediate conviction. As I said, he doesn't look like he offers much more than Malacia for the remainder of the season.



The club have been a bit shit with transfers, outside of opportunistic signings. So I'll use that as a general hint that we are panicking unless they can prove me otherwise.
I dont have a problem with him as a target, or a profile. I'm not saying don't sign him. I'm saying don't panic.
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Sounds like you’re arguing one way but sitting squarely on the fence
 
Gordon S said:
Some of our latest signings have made some sense no? Since the new guys came in.
Ugarte, Mazraoui, De ligt, Yoro, Zirkzee
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Spending so much on Yoro, regardless of his potential, was dumb when we clearly have financial issues and had very clear other holes in the squad.

Zirkzee was always a dumb signing. He's better than Hojlund and was half the price, so that's better I guess. But he doesn't suit the league or the manager (or the previous manager).
 
Berbaclass said:
Wilcox and Vivell are responsible for ETH and Ashworth? How?

The recruitment that we have done in the last window has been good.

Ugarte, Mazraoui and De Ligt are good players and Zirkzee and Yoro I don't think should be written off. Yoro especially.
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I'm not writing off Yoro. I just argue at the price we paid and looking at our finances, the signing didn't make much sense.
 
golden_blunder said:
Sounds like you’re arguing one way but sitting squarely on the fence
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Eh? My only 'argument' is that we shouldn't be paying through the nose to bring him in in January. Wait until the summer and negotiate a better fee - there's no sitting on the fence.

Berbaclass said:
That is £33 million. You seem to be quoting it in euros to make it seem like we are paying more.
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I'm not making it seem like anything. I never said it was £40m.
 
VP89 said:
Eh? My only 'argument' is that we shouldn't be paying through the nose to bring him in in January. Wait until the summer and negotiate a better fee - there's no sitting on the fence.
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Ok. Disagree. We need bodies in now. We are seeing fatigue right now. This system requires a lot of running up and down. We need fresh legs.
 
VP89 said:
I'm not making it seem like anything. I never said it was £40m.
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You know full well that by saying 40 million people will naturally assume that you are talking about pounds not euros.

We have supposedly offered £27 Million and they are asking for £33 Million.

We will most likely meet somewhere in the middle or negotiate add-ons.

That doesn't equate to 'panic'
 
Berbaclass said:
You know full well that by saying 40 million people will naturally assume that you are talking about pounds not euros.

We have supposedly offered £27 Million and they are asking for £33 Million.

We will most likely meet somewhere in the middle or negotiate add-ons.

That doesn't equate to 'panic'
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Considering the majority of the fees when looking at European club targets are reported as euros and not pounds, no I don't.

And yes, overpaying for an inexperienced player who has barely played at wing back (if ever, I think Leece do a back 4?) to rush him in for January rather than negotiate a better fee in the summer is the literal definition of panic.
 
VP89 said:
Considering the majority of the fees when looking at European club targets are reported as euros and not pounds, no I don't.

And yes, overpaying for an inexperienced player who has barely played at wing back (if ever, I think Leece do a back 4?) to rush him in for January rather than negotiate a better fee in the summer is the literal definition of panic.
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This discussion is over.
 
bosnian_red said:
Spending so much on Yoro, regardless of his potential, was dumb when we clearly have financial issues and had very clear other holes in the squad.

Zirkzee was always a dumb signing. He's better than Hojlund and was half the price, so that's better I guess. But he doesn't suit the league or the manager (or the previous manager).
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Yoro is one of those top level talents that are usually reserved clubs like Madrid or Barcelona, or maybe cheating nation backed clubs. Talent level we need to improve in the future. I think it was a smart move regardless.
 
Gordon S said:
Yoro is one of those top level talents that are usually reserved clubs like Madrid or Barcelona, or maybe cheating nation backed clubs. Talent level we need to improve in the future. I think it was a smart move regardless.
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Plus turns out we need centre backs for this system and lindelof and Evan’s on their way out this summer so made total sense to me
 
AltiUn said:
He wasn't even particularly good before the injury
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Natrual left sided better, probably better than shoehorning Dalot there if he had a run of games.
From the few all touch games I've seen of Dorgu he looks little different.
 
golden_blunder said:
Ok. Disagree. We need bodies in now. We are seeing fatigue right now. This system requires a lot of running up and down. We need fresh legs.
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I agree with you on the timeline but not necessarily the player. Whoever we get for this role is going to be heavily relied on out of the gate so I'd prefer someone who's a little less of a question mark
 
Jericholyte2 said:
It’s hilarious how we have to bend to a selling club’s demands whenever we want someone, but are also expected to be the ones to bend when selling someone ourselves.
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There's a pretty obvious difference in that we're Manchester United, and the players we sell are typically the players we want to sell. It's rare that we're in Lecce's position, where a much bigger club tries to prize one of our best players away mid-season when we'd prefer him to stay.
 
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