Agree 99.999% of the time
But i was thinking I'd be sorely tempted to walk out on that, there was zero chance of a goal, no one was trying, no movement, couldn't make a pass.
On this occasion I don't blame anyone who left, not one bit
Pathetic, pitiful, disgraceful and an absolute embarrassment
- Thread starter Feed Me
- Start date
Agree 99.999% of the time
But i was thinking I'd be sorely tempted to walk out on that, there was zero chance of a goal, no one was trying, no movement, couldn't make a pass.
On this occasion I don't blame anyone who left, not one bit
Not really, no. We are in a considerably better position now. I don't think the players or manager deserve the widespread criticism they're getting - it's absolutely scathing.
the game wasnt in the balance for the last 15 odd minutes, you actually can't score when the ball isn't actually moving, never mind your players
.
I hate seeing people leaving early, and its something I've never done, but personally I never thought we'd score towards the end last night, it never looked like it was coming, and I can sort of understand to a degree the pure frustration to just get out of there.
I'm not sure why so many fans get upset over factions of the crowd booing. It happens at every club, we are not above it but certainly don't stoop to the craziness of some clubs like Real etc. At the end of the day fans are allowed to let the team and manager know they are unhappy with the game they just paid to watch, it does not mean they support Man Utd any less.
Cheering/booing are both allowed when judging a performance. The players and manager are highly paid adults who have professional jobs. Anyone who does any job badly should be open to negative feedback.
We go again on the weekend and I'm sure if we put in a good display against Leicester but lose a closely fought game the fans will cheer the players off, if we go there be good/awful and win then we'll definitely get cheered off but if we go there and be awful and lose then I'm sure more boos will understandably follow.
Purely from a personal level I see nothing wrong with it but everyone has their own opinion.
Cheering/booing are both allowed when judging a performance. The players and manager are highly paid adults who have professional jobs. Anyone who does any job badly should be open to negative feedback.
We go again on the weekend and I'm sure if we put in a good display against Leicester but lose a closely fought game the fans will cheer the players off, if we go there be good/awful and win then we'll definitely get cheered off but if we go there and be awful and lose then I'm sure more boos will understandably follow.
Purely from a personal level I see nothing wrong with it but everyone has their own opinion.
I am a season ticket holder. That means the club already has my money, so would they even notice my absence? People watching tv notice when you leave early, if the camera points that way. Yet that is what is being criticised here.
I've also been a match goer in some sense, since Docherty was manager.I have seen my share of dire performances and usually stay til the end and never boo. None of this gives me a right to say how other attendees should react, or feel about our performance. Some supporters make far greater sacrifices than me to get to games, so I'd say their views probably count more than mine, and it is up to them how they display their frustration.
This was one match, under one manager, in the life of Man Utd, so it is no big thing in the grand scheme, but that second half was enough to test the resolve of anybody. It was as devoid of passion or effort as I can remember. Not being good enough is one thing. Not trying is another thing entirely.
That's a completely fair point, whoever made it. Or would you rather he take a paddy like some of the other whoppers on here?
The backlash has been an overreaction. Still, the performance was unacceptable, particularly in the second half. I haven't seen one person pretend otherwise.
Its getting very difficult to keep the faith. I keep telling myself over and over again to be patient and I rationalise our poor performances to death, but I completely understand the general frustration of our fans.
Im still going to make myself wait until at least January before I draw too many conclusions. As bleak as things look now, I cannot believe this is the way Van Gaal wants us to play. So I will give him half a season with his current squad to get it right.
Im still going to make myself wait until at least January before I draw too many conclusions. As bleak as things look now, I cannot believe this is the way Van Gaal wants us to play. So I will give him half a season with his current squad to get it right.
Good post and I'm of similar mind. A match goer since pre Doc days (but no longer an ST holder) I made the decision a few weeks back that I will not be making a 5 hour round trip and shelling out my hard earned to watch this sort of stuff. Life is too short and if I want to be bored at a match I can do that down the road a lot cheaper. It's not good for the bank balance or the blood pressure.
It's a long time ago now but the comparisons to Dave Sexton's dour United are valid. It was fecking torturous watching that team and it's remarkably similar now in terms of the cautious and conservative football.
This is going to be a very long season if we continue like this.
The new in thing on the Caf seems to be that I would be much more happier if we were more entertaining even if we were losing more games, I wonder if this would be actually true on the caf if we lost matches after being entertaining.
I dont think people really mean it :-)
Most people can turn a blind eye to failure on results or on performances. It's when neither are forthcoming people get upset. If you have to sit through a crap game to go out of the League Cup after a goalless draw, then it's harder to ignore.
Actually some of the footy under LVG has been worse than when 'quiet Frank' was manager. I still have 2 STs for the Stretty but have never left early, old school I suppose. Early leaving is noticed and especially in the shop when sales go down, which is a strong barometer for the board. However, if we stay close to the top nothing will change but it's clear, a drop like Moyes will bring about an immediate change. A big buy in January might solve the power issue up front in the short term but another season of LVG might lead me to follow your example.
Its a "fair point" if you take it completely out of context in terms of both the season and our position in the Champions League group.
Given that we now have to go to best side in the group and win (when they've lost 3 games at home in the last 40, or something similar) only an idiot believes "not getting beat" last night is acceptable or justifiable. Last night was not only a winnable game but a game we had to win to avoid an uphill task.
In terms of our season overall and the poor performances - it isn't any sort of achievement to my mind to get a nil-nil draw at home to the worst team in the group from a second tier European league, especially when you only muster one shot in the last 40 minutes.
The point is, last night was the thin end of the wedge. Its the same issues, week after week with no sign of any development. Van Gaal has, so far made us hard to beat - at the cost of playing mostly unattractive, slow and tumescent football, alienating a lot of fans and now it seems even the players. We've had a few decent games out of a season and a half. It's just not enough in my opinion and last night just sums it up.
So, we can either be entertaining losers or a boring, hard to beat team? What about the middle ground? Slightly less focused on being hard to beat, and take more risks to be more entertaining.
We're 100% complete dogshite. At this point, I'd gladly take a finish outside the top 4 at the expense of football that actually makes me eager for the next United game and not dread it. Nothing will change though. We'll still pass the ball around like we're 5-0 up against Leicester until they sneak a goal on the counter at which point Fellaini will come on and we play like a poor man's version of Big Sam's hoofball.
That he has, by playing 6 man in defense. A page straight out of Tony Pulis' book of management, albeit with a squad assembled for 500m. I wonder how this "improved defense" will look like when we actually attack like a proper team; when the full backs maraud forward like proper full backs and midfielders play like central midfielders instead of two additional central defenders.
The sand castle built on being second in the league will wilt very soon too. It's a very flimsy position at the moment, the difference between 2nd to 9th is a mere 7 points; between 2nd and 5th a mere 3 points. One or two results go awry and we would be out of the top 4. Instead of the look of an improving team, which it should at this stage of the season, this team looks like a tiring team, bereft of many ideas. You don't get any kind of confidence watching this team that, yeah, things are about to improve or just waiting to click. It's the same tumescent stuff week in and week out. Most of the time you are wondering where the goal is going to come from if someone doesn't produce an individual piece of magic or if the opposition doesn't commit some terrible error while defending at a set-piece.
Absolute soul sucking, horrendous football. The sight of Fellaini and Young entering for the last 20 minute hoofball really is "Pathetic, pitiful, disgraceful, and an absolute embarrassment"
I personally believe you shouldn't boo because it's counterproductive for the players - especially our players who don't seem to have a lot of confidence. However, the match going fans have paid their hard earned money and as such, they have the right to voice their displeasure. What can you do? Happens at every club. How many times have the Arsenal supporters for eg done that? Meh, no need to get hung up on it.
Every fan has the right to voice their displeasure, and I always feel stupid saying something about fellow supporters who rank higher in terms of value to the club. However it's the framing of the boos as constructive I have a slight issue with. They aren't constructive.
Couldn't agree more - sums up exactly how I feel.
The lack of progress is startling really, given the time, money and freedom he's had to make the changes he thinks he needs. Talking about a "lack of pace" in November is not acceptable - why was that not addressed in the summer? The transfer policy - whoever is in charge is scattergun. Ramos as a target (presumably because we need a centre back) and when that doesn't come off have no other targets and shove Blind in there - just sums it up.
People buy into what he says because they like the sound bites. The reality is, bollocks about "Philosophy" is lapped up when it comes from a continental manager - but in reality its nothing better than some of the crap Brendan Rodgers used to come out with.
Worst of all is the fact that he really doesn't think there's a problem.
As it is, if this keeps up his time will run out at the end of the season. Every time we have an iffy result there's talk of player unrest and eventually, that'll come home to roost. While the players can't be excused from poor performances, watching them this year it looks like he's taken all of the fun away from it
This. Great post @verminater. I'm a match goer myself & on a cold, miserable Wednesday in November, there was very little to keep me rooted to my spot until the 93'rd minute!
have seen my share of poor performances in those days. never booed the team.
times have changed
times have changed
Except there is obviously a balance between the two.
@Feed Me what you're not appreciating is that winning is not everything. Plenty of people complained in Fergusons last few years too.
LVGs Man Utd has made me find football boring. No amount of trophies he delivers would make us fun to watch.
Obviously - im just having a joke.
The caf loves a good moan and playing all out attack would have people up in arms pretty soon.
Na there is no balance, I see all across the forum people saying that I don't care about the result because I watch United for the entertainment. You yourself are saying no amount of trophies he delivers would matter to us unless we are fun. I am saying this is not true at all, I didn't see many people being positive when we lost 5-3 to Leicester last season.
Don't all supporter groups though.
To be honest it's a sign of how angry people are because in some degree, the OP does make a fair point in that we aren't doing bad in the league and we still got a good chance in the CL.
But it also shows therefore that there is more to it than results and winning.
And the fact is you can have a pretty good balance of both. LVG on the other hand is often neither.
No way, saying this makes you clueless. The second BFS went off and was replaced by fellaini we lost control of the midfield which basically lost us the game. Our forwards are kids with potential relatively new to playing at this level and a captain in decline who cannot lead by example (bar mata who never started). I'm not making excuses for LVG, all of the above can be blamed on him but lets not shit all over the team, we are drawing 0-0 not getting completely outclassed and hammered in everygame. The problem only exists in the final third.
Said that LVG's reliance on Rooney would cost him his job, not results. Should of bought another forward. Funny that a lot of the people complaining now were calling others spoilt in the transfer thread come summer. "Play the youth, promote from within" they said. Well people got what they wished for.
Exactly fecking this which it pisses when people on the caf try and defend booing, it is completely counterproductive. You can see smalling misplaced a pace as the crowd was booing/whistling as he approached the halfway line. Wait till the full time whistle then boo as much as you want.
I have absolutely no problem with the fans booing the team after the game, they pour millions into the club and are allowed an opinion. The whole team then know we are not happy. I do object to fans picking on one particular player, or booing during a game, that definitely can be detrimental.
You need to replace bleak with frustrating. It's really not that bleak, not until results start to fade also.
You've decided to write sentences in between the lines of what I wrote.
Think of it like this. There is a minimum threshold of entertainment you must meet in order to be satisfactory. After that threshold, winning is most important. But without that minimum threshold, winning doesn't matter because ultimately, you're bored as hell. Neither is enough without the other though. Losing but being entertainment will make you just as unhappy as winning with no entertainment, depending who you are and what your preferences are.
How does that translate to implying that people would be happy after the Leicester game? Nonsense. The idea that as long as you're fun the results doesn't matter is, as you say, a false argument. More just an exaggeration of the times. But no amount of results will keep me happy. That's the point in making. At some point you need some entertainment, just like if you're playing awesome football every game, eventually you'll get annoyed and want results too.
Fact is one without the other is always a recipe for disaster. Think Arsenal, who are often the complete opposite side of this current debacle at United.
Lmao tonight was shite but you haven't got a fecking clue if you think BFS plays like additional central defender. Not a clue. This is just anger.
Many people leave early to catch the public transport back right? Before it gets too crowded and such. It happens every game, regardless.
This is no time for Elton John.
Is it possible the players were deflated by how shit the atmosphere was?
The majority of old Trafford doesn't get behind the team anymore regardless of the quality of football on show.
People where moaning about the corporate atmosphere ten years ago, but even then it was one hundred times better than it is now. Something should be done but I can only see it getting worse unfortunately.
The majority of old Trafford doesn't get behind the team anymore regardless of the quality of football on show.
People where moaning about the corporate atmosphere ten years ago, but even then it was one hundred times better than it is now. Something should be done but I can only see it getting worse unfortunately.
Fair point. I agree because I could take this football, just about, if we were winning more consistently. But I also understand the people who say the football itself is bleak. That they can't bring themselves to watch it. Or don't want to. Or would sacrifice points for more entertainment.
I think things are pretty bleak but for me the light I hope will brighten the whole outlook is, again, I don't think we are the finished article. I think we'll play better after Christmas (or hopefully even before).
But yes, things can always be worse. It's all relative but things aren't so extremely bleak. I felt worse with Moyes. Miles worse.
Thats true but yesterday they left earlier than usual