Pathetic, pitiful, disgraceful and an absolute embarrassment

[montpelier]

I think the level of whingeing is a little bit excessive, mainly because results (apart from this one, obv) have been pretty decent.

I'm confident we will finish in the top 4 - wasn't last season, wasn't with Moyes

So it's not a disgrace, shameful, disaster etc we just are fairly dull, and not operating at the very top end of things re winning Lge or CL (haha, playing like that etc)

I'd like to think we're only a couple of players short of being very good & more interesting to watch - think we all know what the major blockages to that are.

I quite like van Gaal, don't agree with everything he's done (the odd sale mainly) but think he's done some good things. Hopefully he moves us on again from here, some people don't think he can do that by the look of it. I presume he will get the chance, and then we get Giggsy (who I think will be good - based on sod all obv, but who knows)

This is football.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

We have a great keeper, a good defence and a soild midfield, our problem is obviously that we lack pace and quality up front. LvG knows this.

Things would look a bit different if we had signed, for instance, Bale, Griezmann and Aubameyang during the summer. Rooney is too old, Martial, Lingard and Depay are still young and learning their trade. We simply need some established players who are 24-28 years old.

 

[RoadTrip]

Right thats exactly the point. If you're spending the money to go to games (and some people spends £100s of pounds a week to go to games) then of course you'll be annoyed when you don't feel like you get your moneys worth. I have no problem whatsoever with those people complaining. I can appreciate them being short-termist, who wants to spend their hand on cash not watching the finished project?

I think its highly irritating, though, when people to whom United are not something they choose to spend their money on complain about it. Objectively speaking this season's going pretty well, midweek result aside. Yet half our fans seem to be one game away from demanding LVG out because why? It's ruining their Saturday afternoon watching an illegal steam when we only win 1-0? I've always hated the argument to a degree, but when teams are scrapping for relegation and scrapping to stay in business complaining that we're challenging for the title in a way in which that person, particularly, finds unentertaining is a bit pathetic. Particularly when less than a season ago, we were scrapping for European football and everyone seemed to be in agreement that this season was part of a process of getting back to our level. So what's LVG done? He's followed the conventional wisdom, he's building a team from the back. No we're not great to watch. But I'd take winning almost every game in a boring manner than I would losing to everyone and their dog like we did under Moyes.

We're closer than we've been since Ferguson retired to challenging for the league, and come the end of the season may even be Champions. If our uninspiring performances were costing us points regularly then fine but they're not. We're on, what, an 8 game unbeaten run and people are saying stuff like they miss Moyes.

It's ridiculously over the top. I might not go as far as to say its 'pathetic, pitiful, disgraceful, and an absolute embarrassment' but some of the comments on here recently have been down right odd.

Just to comment on the match goers vs non match goers point, I think that's completely unfair. I don't attend every game, a few here and there. Does that mean my opinion would only be valid for those games?

And what about those who fork out money on sky sports and BT? Or go to pubs every week when the team is on TV? Are their opinions any less valid?

 

[RoadTrip]

Look the bottom line is this. You'll always get people on the extremes.

Yes there are a bunch of people who slag LVG at every opportunity, hate everything he does, and give him no credit for anything.

Likewise there's a bunch of people who defend him, make everything good down to him and everything bad down to someone else.

But I would say that 95% of people are somewhere in the middle. Obviously after a game, the extreme people will come out in forces and go mad. But in no way are they a majority of any kind.

Fundamentally, I can see logic to the idea that maybe overall we aren't as satisfied as a fan base as we should be. We are doing well in the league and have a good chance of CL progression. However I think it just shows how bad our football is if it's making people this upset. It's a huge and unfair generalisation to say they are pathetic and not rational etc. ultimately there must be a reason people feel like that.

I said it before, winning and results are the most important thing. But there is a minimum base line of "entertainment" that must be met for that to kick into effect, IMO. Everyone different though so for someone else that might not be how they think.

Take Fergies last few years. Our football was pretty poor but it was entertaining enough for me to just have a small moan and get a bit frustrated and move on. But this year, I really struggle to let go of how badly we play.

 

[Feed Me]

What if you work weekends and are also skint as feck, are you not allowed to complain then that United don't give you some enjoyment as a break from the grim reality of life>

I come from Wolverhampton, one of the most economically deprived places in the UK. The city's football team is in a pretty poor state at the moment. I know plenty of people back home who work all the hours under the sun, are pretty skint, pay their hard earned cash to go and watch shit football and cope with the grim reality of life by reacting with a smile.

Sorry, but your argument doesn't wash.

 

[RedRover]

Just to comment on the match goers vs non match goers point, I think that's completely unfair. I don't attend every game, a few here and there. Does that mean my opinion would only be valid for those games?

And what about those who fork out money on sky sports and BT? Or go to pubs every week when the team is on TV? Are their opinions any less valid?

The days of accusing people of being armchair fans are over. Clubs derive the vast majority of their income from TV now so those fans who pay for Sky and BT (or international equivalent) as well as pay for merchandise are as important as any match going fans.

At the end of the day any fan is entitled to his or her opinion. Football is a hobby, not a job, and if people don't enjoy it then they'll voice their opinions. Generally, as said above most fans are reasonable and sensible. If they're getting upset the that's a problem for the club overall.

 

[noodlehair]

I don't get this "compared to what other fans have to put up with" argument that's suddenly cropped up.

Is it from some fantasy universe where other teams fans don't complain about their team/manager, or don't get on their back if they don't think things are up to scratch? I mean, has anyone watched like basically any Sunderland or Newcastle home game for the last 5 years?

With the brand of football LVG serves up, club he's at, and money spent, the ONLY way he would escape heavy criticism from fans and media is by winning things. Mourinho got heavy criticism last year despite winning things, due to the boring brand of football deployed. Why on earth LVG would or should be on some imunity cloud despite being at a club where there's much more scrutiny on entertainment factor, I don't know. It's nothing to do with anyone being "spoilt"...it's just what happens at any football club where fans aren't happy with what's being served up.

Just to comment on the match goers vs non match goers point, I think that's completely unfair. I don't attend every game, a few here and there. Does that mean my opinion would only be valid for those games?

And what about those who fork out money on sky sports and BT? Or go to pubs every week when the team is on TV? Are their opinions any less valid?

It's daft isn't it?

You're not allowed an opinion on a football game because you watched it on the internet...in which case, why watch it at all really?

I remember going to see us play Blackburn on NYE when Fergie put out that ridiculous line up with no midfielders, and we lost 3-2...I came on here and had a whinge the next day and several people trotted out this line...but I was at the game...I was the only one in the section where my season ticket was who bothered to turn up. Everyone else either wasn't there or had been replaced by someone I didn't recognise

So I was confused because my points were invalid because I didn't go to the game...except I did? So does that then mean everything I said was valid...but then if soomeone who didn't go copied and pasted it, it wouldn't be valid?

So basically the actual translation is "you're not entitled to an opinion unless I agree with it"

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I don't get this "compared to what other fans have to put up with" argument that's suddenly cropped up.

It's an odd one. Might as well use the old "at least you've got a roof over your head" line, because the logic is essentially the same.

As for the "right" to moan, the fact is that both LVG as such, and the current brand of football in particular, seem to split fans' opinions across the demographic. If those who complain about what is being served up are "spoiled", then these ungrateful bastards are a motley crew, comprised of clueless kids who comment on United's Facebook page and men in their seventies who have been regulars at OId Trafford since Busby was in charge.

 

[Spoony]

s an odd one. Might as well use the old "at least you've got a roof over your head" line, because the logic is essentially the same.

As for the "right" to moan, the fact is that both LVG as such, and the current brand of football in particular, seem to split fans' opinions across the demographic. If those who complain about what is being served up are "spoiled", then these ungrateful bastards are a motley crew, comprised of clueless kids who comment on United's Facebook page and men in their seventies who have been regulars at OId Trafford since Busby was in charge.

It's like telling people what that can and can't feel. An on and off switch would be nice. Anyway, love the sanctimony of some fans.

 

[matherto]

I come from Wolverhampton, one of the most economically deprived places in the UK. The city's football team is in a pretty poor state at the moment. I know plenty of people back home who work all the hours under the sun, are pretty skint, pay their hard earned cash to go and watch shit football and cope with the grim reality of life by reacting with a smile.

Sorry, but your argument doesn't wash.

It does if you work the days that we play and can't get the time off though doesn't it.

 

[711]

I come from Wolverhampton, one of the most economically deprived places in the UK. The city's football team is in a pretty poor state at the moment. I know plenty of people back home who work all the hours under the sun, are pretty skint, pay their hard earned cash to go and watch shit football and cope with the grim reality of life by reacting with a smile.

Sorry, but your argument doesn't wash.

And none of these lads ever complain about the team, the results, or the manager? Come now.

 

[Feed Me]

It does if you work the days that we play and can't get the time off though doesn't it.

Sorry, I don't catch your drift.

 

[Feed Me]

And none of these lads ever complain about the team, the results, or the manager? Come now.

Of course they do. But they're struggling in the Championship and their owner has put the club up for sale.

In comparison, United could go top of the Premier League today.

I don't think there's a more disgruntled set of fans in the country at the moment than us, and that strikes a discordant note when we look at our position.

Yes, the football is quite conservative, but we need to look at the bigger picture. We've lost perspective as a fan base.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

We've lost perspective as a fan base.

We have a bigger fanbase than practically any other club, so it's bound to be less than homogeneous in its outlook on...anything.

The match going fans are more interesting to me. They've been impressively staunch in the post-Fergie period so far, especially the traveling fans. Even under Moyes they focused on supporting the team, their feelings about the football and the manager notwithstanding.

If we're now seeing the emergence of more explicitly disgruntled behaviour on their part, that would be very telling - it would speak volumes about the impact of the football so many on here are moaning about, not least given the fact that we're doing very well table wise.

 

[Feed Me]

We have a bigger fanbase than practically any other club, so it's bound to be less than homogeneous in its outlook on...anything.

The match going fans are more interesting to me. They've been impressively staunch in the post-Fergie period so far, especially the traveling fans. Even under Moyes they focused on supporting the team, their feelings about the football and the manager notwithstanding.

If we're now seeing the emergence of more explicitly disgruntled behaviour on their part, that would be very telling - it would speak volumes about the impact of the football so many on here are moaning about, not least given the fact that we're doing very well table wise.

It's a bit harsh on Van Gaal that he's beating the brunt of the fans' frustrations after Moyes got such a free ride.

I'm sure the coaches will have taken the criticisms on board, so let's see whether we get a more forward thinking side over the upcoming run of winnable games.

 

[matherto]

Sorry, I don't catch your drift.

If you're in work then you can't go to the game can you, fecking hell.

 

[Verminator]

I like how the argument that match going fans have a right to be pissed off and show it, without being critcised by non matchgoers, has been skewed to become "non attendees have less right to complain"!
It's changing the subject to suit.