Yeah, I really should have said Capitalism but I didn't want to delve in the realms of cliches and be open to accusations of being a raging Commie (for the record, I'm not, honest!
)Paris terror attacks on Friday 13th
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)or do nothing and see the death toll rise. people knew , people as i said that lived next to them knew and if the french police knew where they lived wouldn't you start knocking on some doors?
Considering Germany just recently let in hundreds of thousands of Arabs into their country I guess the last thing they want to do is to risk antagonising them by speaking out what the rest of the public is thinking.
They are being even more so lately but again no one seems interested. All of these are dated in the past month or so.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-34503004
Lancs Police Chief Constable states policing Lancashire "not viable"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34533859
Met Commisioner stating further cuts "will put London at risk"
http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/NEWS/...from_Police_Commissioner_over_impending_cuts/
Merseyside Police and crime Commisioner warns of "disasterous consequences" of continued budget cuts
The problem is it doesn't make the news all that much and when it does people just dont seem interested. The warnings are there. When things are said the government, and Teresa May, put it down as "scaremongering". This isn't scaremongering this is the reality. How on earth can officers continue to keep everyone safe when currently a domestic burglary is unable to be resourced efficiently?
was off to germany in july - rethinking that as well. they have to walk that fine line due to a historical nightmare. didn't some from the 9/11 group live in germany?
I am sorry but you're talking nonsense.
What a Police Officer can do in those situations is vital whether armed or unarmed. They can pass information directly to the control room, evacuate other oblivious members of the public, put a cordon in place, follow and pass descriptions of the offenders detailing weapons/numbers/vehicles etc.. I could go on? Faling that like many Police Oficers do day to day they could intervene putting their own lives at risk.
When all the information you speak of is gathered who do you expect to act upon it? Execute the warrant, arrest and detain the suspect and form a prosecution?
Who do you expect to patrol the streets, police events, challenge suspicious activity and behaviour?
They temporarily lived in Hamburg.
Germany is safe for the time being, the intelligence services are switched on and there haven't been any type of terrorist attacks. You should be ok.
Whats funny is you saying that the use of social media to influence masses is exclusive to Islam.
If they do take place, then it cant be exclusive to Islam can it?
What a pathetic post.
Blame the foreign policy yet don't blame the religion. Wow.
Yeah because every muslim is bombing those cities :rollseyes:
What people? Have the attackers been positively identified?
If the people knew and suspected, then they should go to Law Enforcement. After all, police officials and Intelligence Agencies are not omnipresent. I should think the Terrorists are evolving as much as the intelligence agencies and are better equipped to escape detection or capture.
Don't know enough of the Inquisition, or the Balkans for that matter, but I was always under the impression that the issues surrounding the Balkans were due to the ethnic make up of Yugoslavia, which in most likelihood was a result of the break up of the Ottoman Empire, by the same powers who carved up the Middle East. They really did a shitty job, it must be said.
On the Inquisition: like I said, I don't know enough on it to make a judgement either way. My rudimentary understanding of it does say you might have a point though, with the laymen paying the price for the ambitions of their rulers, and the 'religious zeal' of the Catholics of Andalusia also playing a more than significant part.
I'd be more than happy to be proven otherwise though, that place and period of time favorites me
Well the Ottomans ruled the Balkans through divide-and-rule via religion and through the dominance of one particular minority group, all the while harvesting young Christian boys from their families via the devshirme system. Probably naive to think that centuries of rule like this had nothing to do with the problems that region has faced in modern times. The powers didn't oust them from the Balkans, local separatist nationalist movements (admittedly at times supported by the powers) did, the process was completed before WW1.
On the Inquisition I know less, but I have read that the unique zeal of Spanish Catholicism at that time can be at least in part attributed to centuries of frontier warfare waged against pretty fanatical Muslim armies (the Almoravida and Almohads - in contrast, the earlier Umayyads of Spain were reckoned to be a lot more tolerant and sophisticated.)
My broader point, however, is that blaming modern-day Islamic extremism on the action of Western powers a century ago is like blaming the extremism of the Catholic Inquisitors or Crusaders on the actions of various Islamic armies/empires who invaded formerly Christian lands. Sure, it may suffice as part of a broader explanation, but only part. There are much deeper dynamics at play in both cases, e.g. Wahhabism arose as a response to perceived Ottoman decadence in the 18th century in a region that was never colonized by Europeans. Similar case for other movements in West Africa and India around the same time.
Update -
One of the suicide bombers is thought to have been as young as 15-years-old.
One of the suicide bombers is thought to have been as young as 15-years-old.
I'm definitely no expert but from the outside looking in I think one of the issues is the segmented nature of policing in the UK. It might already exist but I think a combined effort is required to push the agenda. The issue with getting press attention is definitely a problem and it may take something extreme to get attention.
There is something similar going on over here (Ireland) right now in relation to cuts and spiraling crime, the GRA (Garda Representative Authority) and some fairly high profile incidents have shamed the government into limited action.
Which is still a staggering amount
"The West" is not responsible for every single person out there. Nor is it our task to somehow convince them that the country they live in is their cultural home. This should be the very first condition to even live here. Learn and respect the culture of the country you live in or piss off. The West is responsible for making sure ppl that come here have the opportunity to learn about our culture, our language and and social norms. It's not our task to convince them to learn those things though. This should be quite obvious. If you are not willing to, well then goodbye. I have no patience for fundamentalistic ideas of any kind anymore. Nor do I have any symphathy with nationalist ideologies. Especially not from ppl that come from other countries and carry those believes in a new one.
And I also disagree with the notion that it is OUR (the Wests) task to reform the culture and attachment ppl have to Islam. Why should this be the task of the west? If they are not able to live in a moderate and reasonable way and without religious beliefes influencing their thinking and behaviour then fine. Go and live somewhere where this is tolerated. It shouldn't be tolerated here. And this should go for every religion, not only Islam. What WE should do is stop interferring everywhere around the world, especially the US. Of course, economic interest will never allow it, but that is one of the major problems.
Had the US not interfered, would there still be a completely destabilized middle east? Probably. But they would fight their wars in their own countries. Now with the great help from America we have the problem, that there is a group of ppl that want to carry their idiotic believes around the world, beheading everyone that is against them. I don't think that we have much of a choice NOW. Damage is already done. Those guys have to be wiped out.
It really depends how you look at it.
If you look at them as simply numbers of people then yeah absolutely it is. If you look at it in perspective and you realise that 99.5% of people following the same thing that everybody else is blaming, then you would say it clearly wasn't that which was the issue otherwise there wouldn't be 99.5% of people managing to live their lives perfectly fine. 0.5% of anything is an insignificant number. Though that's not saying that these attacks are insignificant so please don't take it that way. Twisted people will use whatever they can to justify their actions. If the religion was to blame then we'd have millions of Islamic fundamentalists on the streets killing us indiscriminately. What we actually have is 99.5% of people seeming to manage just fine with a statistically insignificant portion of them committing atrocities.
If anything, the fact that it's still a staggering amount at such an insignificant percentage of the overall population simply points to just how much of a staggering figure it is that shows Islam is not the problem. It's not like almost 1 billion people simply don't get it and if they did they'd all be murderers too. The fault lies with the individuals committing these attacks.
If it was 20/80 then sure. If it was 50/50 then absolutely. If it was even 10/90 then yeah. But it's nowhere close.
As much as it hurts my non-interventionist philosophy, I agree.
But we don't know how many do Eboue. It's a pretty decent guess that ISIS isn't 8million strong so it will be less than 0.5%. The majority of football fans in the world aren't hooligans, but because a small percentage are does that make all football fans hooligans? Of course not, it just means that a small percentage of fans are crazy wankers who spoil the name of football for their own agendas.
people did know to think differently is silly. and they didn't report it. now it may be they didn't because of threats or they are compliant. but there is no if.
Well, don't you disagree with "blaming Islam for something that 99% of the people that practice it disagree with and condemn"? If you think people are wrong to blame Islam and there is "about as much right to indiscriminate hate" the West, then shouldn't such hatred be wrong, too? You cannot have it both ways. Yet, you went out of your way to argue for the "legitimacy" of such hate.
I don't see no current atrocities in Morocco, Algeria or Tunisia that have their roots in "Western culture". And a lot of immigrants in Western Europe Muslim neighbourhoods come from those places. The other large group are Turks and I don't see "Western Culture" commit atrocities there either.
I don't know how many there are exactly, or how many sympathize with their goals, or how many who choose to live in liberal democracies reject the fundamental components of a liberal democracy but I think we can agree the number is Too Many.
A similar example would be blaming france or poland for the crimes of America but I dont think anyone does that.
That statement from IS... Unbelievable how much deranged nonsense you can fit in a few paragraphs.These terrorist organisations present a threat to humanity, and this calls for a world solution. There's no justification for the mindset of these barbarians. Their twisted ideology needs to be eradicated using every method at our disposal. We should all be horrified by the destruction we keep seeing in the news to people, cities and culture. Far more than a military response is required. We need consensus on social, political, ideological, humanitarian strategies. We all need to work together to solve the root causes of this problem and consign them to history.
As always I feel sorry for the innocent people losing their lives over this.
CIA estimates place ISIS support at roughly 50,000-100,000. So in comparison to 1.7 billion, the number is staggeringly small.
To the argument that these terrorists would do this evil shit even if it weren't for religion, I really am sceptical of this notion. Under what other grounds can these kids be brainwashed like this? Religion is the only thing I can think of that brainwashes people from such a young age and it's apparently socially acceptable for this to continue. Most of this brainwashing is harmless and even beneficial to wider society, but I still think it's wrong.
Personally I think every person the world over should be taught the basics of each religion and given the choice of what they want to spend the rest of their lives believing in. An impossible dream, of course.
For sure, but that's not the Religions fault. It's simply a fault in humankind, it's how some of us are wired.
Well, even assuming that is true, I find it baffling people can sit behind their laptops and criticize the Intelligence agencies for not doing their job without knowing the ins and outs of it.
Wow the England France game has been given the go ahead. I didn't expect that.
No - you're wrong. The US decided to go into Iraq on spurious half reasons, changing the goalposts to try and justify the killing of up to 1m Iraqis and causing 12-14 years of displacement and chaos which has just gotten worse and worse. This is a huge factor in today's events. Of course it is. The discussion for IS starts there.
I'll reiterate, IS are to blame, but I don't believe it's the religion either. Considering they've been killing more Muslims for the last 18 months than non Muslims would suggest that it doesn't really matter what religion you are in their eyes. They're killing FSA and Nusra guys in Syria, killing Iraqis in Iraq, non Muslims, Christians etc. These guys are only Muslim in name and have NOTHING to do with the religion. There's been no evidence that they prescribe to the religion other than proclamations here and there.
A captive that escaped from them said they don't even own a Qu'ran. They banned Eid prayers, they 'elected' a Caliph out of the blue. All of these things contravene the religion. Their hierarchy includes ex CIA/Mossad guys, guys who were put into Anerican held prisons in Iraq, tortured and waterboarded. This has an effect, and like I said, we're the ones who will suffer. The normal people always do.
In your opinion I'm talking nonsense. I'd rather respect the functioning of our chief counter terrorism organisation that's been doing this for over a century and whose sole purpose is to prevent these acts rather than police officers who by their very nature have plenty of other issues to contend with. I would have thought it was common sense to utilise intelligence to prevent these acts before they even hit the streets rather than relying on bobbies reducing casualties when the inevitable happens. But fair enough, it's clearly an issue we don't agree on.
Yeah next step would be to celebrate and congratulate ISIS to their great achievement. Very well done. Next drink's on me... Die Zeit is full of shit.They are actually throwing Persians and Arabs into the same hat... and fundamentalists and moderate ppl as well. What a shite paper.
If 100k is correct and you use 1.6 billion as a figure. Then only 0.006% follow ISIS. Which is why it's ridiculous to blame the Religion.
Why, if this is not a religious problem, is this an issue with Islam in modern times? Why can't they just manifest their beliefs into preventing homosexuals from adopting and closing car dealerships on Sunday like Christians do?
@Zarlak too
If the number is less than one percent, how can you claim that its an issue with Islam? If one percent of Americans are racist rednecks, is it fair to label the whole america as racist?
i'm not , we've had a communication breakdown. my point is people who lived near them said nothing. be it because the fear reprisals or are an aid to these animals. one thing i will assume is that the french police will be assuming the same thing.
If America has a higher percentage of racists than other countries, it is fair to ask questions about why that might be the case. If Islam has a higher percentage of terrorists than other religions, it is fair to ask questions about why that might be the case.
like the thread "American Cops Doing What They Do Best" kind of labeling? isis kills more muslims than any other group. add to that other arabs or peoples of the ME.
What? It has nothing to do with religion? They are forcing Muslims to quote the Qoran. If they can't they'll kill them.
What's almost as unnerving as fundamentalism is the fact so many "moderate" religious ppl still don't blame religion as one of the major problems. It's always sth different. It has never something to do with those idiotic ideas religion represents. There might be quite a lot of other interests (mostly economic ones) involved as well. But religion itself is a very very dangerous weapon and for that, quite obviously, one of the major problems.
and if the number in both cases is less than one percent or even 0.1% based on the IS figure, then its also fair to assume that the fault doesnt lie with either america(in our example) or Islam.