That post I've quoted seems to indicate that it was all due to Western policies which is absolutely nonsense. You can't defend Islam from every terrorist attack by saying that it's an result of the failed western policies.
Paris terror attacks on Friday 13th
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That post I've quoted seems to indicate that it was all due to Western policies which is absolutely nonsense. You can't defend Islam from every terrorist attack by saying that it's an result of the failed western policies.
Did you miss the part of the post where he said "These people usually come from deprived and remote areas and villages from Africa and the Middle-East"?
Good. Everyone should wear a shirt with a bullseye on it to laugh at those barbaric cnuts in the face.
No, I didn't.
We clearly won't agree on this, nothing like a good conspiracy theory.
Considering TR has highlighted cuts to the police, it's hardly ridiculous to suggest that Cameron and co aren't as committed to security as they suggest. There should be no excuse for the government being allowed to completely erode our privacy.
With a slightly tinfoil hat on, what I suspect we will see in the coming years is national intelligence agencies assuming responsibility to guard against attacks like this with traditional policing being 'outsourced' to private companies.
Hopefully I'm wrong but you're point is incredibly valid.
Well then your reply back to me is nonsensical given that you opened with 'It's not related to "people in the Middle East"' yet that's exactly what he said, that the people he was talking about came from the Middle East as well as Africa.
Because its worked out so well this far eh? Time to address the root issues
The root causes could be traced back ad infinitum. We're well beyond that point now, where they have to be removed and completely eliminated.
There's no need to insert some sort of qualifier every time you bring up Islam. No one has said every single Muslim is an extremist or terrorist yet every couple of posts you have people criticizing people for being racist and generalizing a whole religion. There is a big problem with Islam. Plain and simple. Blaming the US for this is downright hilarious.
What do you think they want access to this data for?
Unfortunately I feel that that is just impossible. I'd love to be wrong.
Agreed with this.
No you're right. What's frustrating for me is the public don't seem bothered.
Private companies like G4S who totally messed up the Olympics and needed the MET and other territorial police forces to come in and take control.
If people can't see the risks with these continued cuts and the risk of terror then they need to wake up and smell the coffee.
They are all as bad as each other, more focused on being first than actually presenting facts or news.
Sky have just had an interview with an "intelligence expert" sat in a studio in the US, with Burley egging him on on what he thinks the response should be - "Do we need to see boots on the ground?"
All she left out was "that would be great for the ratings!"
It's like watching transfer deadline day.
You're suggesting permanently putting an end to something that has existed for centuries in different forms. If not ISIS, it will be someone else.
I'm sure this has probably alresdy been posted...but too many pages to scroll by -
IS statement in full -
- Russian airliner
- double suicide bombing in Beirut killing 40+
- Paris
They have seriously upped the ante in the last few weeks....
IS statement in full -
- Russian airliner
- double suicide bombing in Beirut killing 40+
- Paris
They have seriously upped the ante in the last few weeks....
Disagree there. If it saves countless lives, avoiding massacres like the one yesterday, it's a small price to pay.
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this , not only the authorities but their neighbors too - with so many bad apples something is wrong in the orchard.
Yep. I think that the culprits are the people who have done the acts. But to understand the reasons behind it, then you have to look at the greater picture. And there, both US/EU/NATO policies and the religion of Islam (or if someone prefer, the Salafi/Wahabbis) have to share some blame. Of course, not identical.
Quite clearly, if US and their allies didn't invade Middle East so many times, things wouldn't be as they are. Quite clearly, if Islam would have been reformed and would have been more difficult to interpret certain verses as giving the right for these attrocies, things wouldn't be as they are.
Definitely, it is a very chaotic and complex situation. What I think should happen is:
1) Completely destroy ISIS
2) Completely cut ties with Saudi Arabia until they decide to become a modern secular state and won't finance terrorism/radical Islam
3) Islam needs a reform from within.
The first two steps are completely under the control of Western civilization.
The main idea is to remove access to free land where they can train and plot future atrocities. They will likely metastasize elsewhere if Iraq and Syria are secured, which is why its not a regional, but a global issue. The west, Europe, Asia, the Middle East and various African states all need a unified approach, otherwise we will only be playing whack a mole with a perpetually moving target.
It's not easy to stop these attacks unless you know exactly what is happening. These terrorists aren't stupid and if they are local it makes it that much more difficult to actually figure out what's happening.
1 won't happen without 2 and 3 unfortunately, especially 2.
Bodies representing the police need to become much more vocal and public IMO.
They are all as bad as each other, more focused on being first than actually presenting facts or news.
Sky have just had an interview with an "intelligence expert" sat in a studio in the US, with Burley egging him on on what he thinks the response should be - "Do we need to see boots on the ground?"
All she left out was "that would be great for the ratings!"
It's like watching transfer deadline day.
Your are mixing up people in the Middle East and people from the Middle East as well as Africa. The distinction is important here. People currently in the Middle East (specifically Syria and Iraq) and that have recently come from the Middle East might experience and might have experienced bombings from western countries. In my opinion that does not give right to "legitimate hate" indiscriminately against everyone of "us". Indiscrimate hate is always illegitimate. However, the whole discussion was about people already in Western neighbourhoods of Middle East or African origin, most of whom never experienced bombings from "us". And to ask a guy from Tunisia who hates "us" and "our culture" to go back to Tunisia is not about sending him back to "our bombings". "We" don't bomb Tunisia.
You took an exchange between VorZakone and Kakeru that in my opinion was generally about people of that background who live in Western Europe and framed it in a way that makes it specifically about recent refugees that were getting away from actual warfare in the present day when I don't think that was implied at all. The best I give you is that the exchange was ambigious. But even then - in a sensitive discussion like that - it's better to ask questions first before making wild accusations.
But what's a police officer on the street going to do against someone walking into a concert hall with an AK47 and explosives strapped to his chest? I don't want to get into conjecture because it's a dangerous area to second guess operations during these kind of events, but there were constant complaints from the public about how long it took the services to raid the concert hall yesterday. But the simple fact is that it's not the place of officers to run in blindly into a situation and possibly make it worse or put their own lives in jeopardy. Yes it's terrible that people were getting massacred, but should a police officer with a wife and children rush in to a situation with absolutely no information about what he's letting himself in for? It's all nice and cosy from our laptops and from our vast training on Call of Duty. But you will NEVER be able to police against such instances and therefore the ONLY way to prevent it is for the intelligence services to stop it before it even gets that far.
I think it isn't that easy to make ISIS near irrelevant. Of course, to completely destroy it (and similar groups in the future), West needs to cut the head of the snake.
Where does the money come from? Mostly from a certain Empire. If they would have been targeted instead of Iran for the last 40 years, probably things would have been different.
it's also not easy to pull off these attacks without support from more than 6-7 people. there are people who live next to them who helped. people who lived next to them that said nothing - which is also helping. to me it makes you as guilty for not stopping it.
Saudi Arabia needs to be destroyed. I'm sorry if this sounds bloodthirsty or whatever but they are a cancer on the region and the world in general. Remove the massive financial backing and at the very least you at make these brainwashed idiots a tad impotent and ineffective in their violent agenda.
Die Zeit: "Wir müssen den Islamismus bekämpfen und uns mit den Muslimen versöhnen. Denn das ist das einzige, was wir noch nicht ausprobiert haben: die Araber und Perser so zu behandeln, als seien sie Menschen wie Du und ich, wie Nachbarn."
It's all our fault, basically, we need to reconcile with the Muslims and try out something we haven't tried before: treat the Arabs like human beings, like they were neighbours, people like you and me.
It's all our fault, basically, we need to reconcile with the Muslims and try out something we haven't tried before: treat the Arabs like human beings, like they were neighbours, people like you and me.
Just Saudi Arabia? That would apply to most countries in the Middle East. Iran, Syria, etc. Others may not export radical Islam/terrorism, but they are not modern, secular nations.
Exactly the sort of realpolitik the us is always criticized for.
Seeing reports that three of the eight have been identified - one French, one Syrian, one Egyptian. Unconfirmed.
That's important though.
US have already cut ties with Iran, despite that they aren't near as big problem as SA.
Don't know enough of the Inquisition, or the Balkans for that matter, but I was always under the impression that the issues surrounding the Balkans were due to the ethnic make up of Yugoslavia, which in most likelihood was a result of the break up of the Ottoman Empire, by the same powers who carved up the Middle East. They really did a shitty job, it must be said.
On the Inquisition: like I said, I don't know enough on it to make a judgement either way. My rudimentary understanding of it does say you might have a point though, with the laymen paying the price for the ambitions of their rulers, and the 'religious zeal' of the Catholics of Andalusia also playing a more than significant part.
I'd be more than happy to be proven otherwise though, that place and period of time favorites me
no blame then to muslims giving money and turning a blind eye to these thing and no mention of how many muslims have killed other muslims. no thanks. won't be going to france soon. glad i didn't firm up that april trip.
Firstly, it gives about as much right to indiscriminate hate as blaming Islam for something that 99% of the people that practice it disagree with and condemn. Secondly, as was mentioned previously in the thread there are many current and past atrocities in Africa that have their roots in Western culture.
Granted, I was focusing more on the Middle Eastern aspect of his post rather than the African, of course we don't bomb Tunisia but there are still atrocities with their roots in the West in those parts of the world.
I'm not saying it's easy to plan such attacks but short of the entire plan being discussed and caught on tape somewhere how do you propose these attacks are stopped? Have increased security in every cafe, every bar, every restaurant, every concert hall whenever they know an attack is impending? Or go around barging in on every terror suspect (which no doubt will create more furore when some turn out to be innocent? The CIA knew an attack was inevitable before 9/11, didn't help them much to prevent it did it?
Knowing that there's an impending attack and stopping it are two different things.