I'm actually against calling it radicalising as for me that makes it sound to uncontrolled. That there's a small group who just out of luck are able to turn peoples minds to their needs. When in fact it's a much, larger organised, state funded idealism that has been exported the world over. When we deal with it as sects with rich and powerful backing targeting poor communities then we have an area I believe we can move against and educate against. What is to blame is a sect of Islam that started off with good intentions but quickly became converted by a ruler to legitimise their atrocities and power grabbing. Unfortunately this sect of islam was and still is massively funded with schools set up all over the world in the 80's and military backing and training for the fighters which we now consider terrorists.
Paris terror attacks on Friday 13th
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This is just fecked up beyond everything.
You have to wonder how the French authorities are going to handle the security nightmare the EC is going to create next summer. The general situation in France is extremely worrying, seems like it's by far the most troubled country in the West regarding alienated and radicalized youth and extremism.
You have to wonder how the French authorities are going to handle the security nightmare the EC is going to create next summer. The general situation in France is extremely worrying, seems like it's by far the most troubled country in the West regarding alienated and radicalized youth and extremism.
Not long ago another attack was prevented from happening in Toulouse.
Have to disagree here. I believe it was an attempt at the reforming of Islam that has created a lot of this mindset of the minorities. Maybe re-education and re-attachment to Islam targetted at the poorer communities will help.
Bataclan shooting
Warning: 18+
Disturbing video
Warning: 18+
Disturbing video
100% agree. What happened last night was sickening but it was inevitable... As the saying goes, you reap what you sow, and France, among many others, has sowed more than it's fair share. How many more lives must perish before we realise that our foreign policies and our domestic "integration" policies are the problem?? Look at Norway in the wake of Breivik's attack. They didn't go down the route of othering a section of their community, they didn't set up an illegal offshore prison where you could hold thousands without due process or charge. Instead, they doubled down on their social democratic principles and fostered a real sense of community. It's been a few years since and Norway has moved on... With Hollande declaring a state of emergency already, you can see which side of the pitchfork he chose, and long-term, it will be us who will pay the harshest of prices.
If people want to watch "disturbing videos", there are other places they can go. Doesn't matter what rating you put on it.
Now this I'll always agree with. Tbh I make a difference between educating and reforming.
With gunmen attacking the streets of the capitol in a coordinated attack you have to announce a state of emergency, that has no bearing on the coming re-actions.
The hotbeds of Islamic terrorism don't even have a social structure and functional governments. Survival itself is a big deal. In such a scenario, I don't see how people can expect reforms and education to happen.
I say reforming as there is an established system that has targeted and educated. I'm not saying this is covering all of the Islamic world and that it all needs reforming, but I am saying there is an area we can act against and reeducation and reform in that area is a must.
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Indeed. I remember watching shows about former young extremists who were managed to be pulled away from committing serious acts thanks to a strong entourage and proper education about the beliefs.
Well they do. Social structure within a society is an incredibly easy thing to create and the idea of functional governments is simply a matter of leaders telling others what their goals are and for the group to work towards it. If you're thinking in terms of governments of countries then you have to remember that in this instance as far as ISIS and their supporters are concerned is that the western imperialistic created countries, do not exist and the whole middle east area should be a caliphate ruled by their religious structure. ISIS is an incredibly well organised group that have a trade routes with the outside world for buying and selling helped by their political or business supporters in various countries. For example there's a huge movement in trade of historic artifacts leaving the region at the moment which ISIS has created to help fund them which a lot of the buyers are from European states.
All it takes is communication and for people to do what they're instructed, whether this is young muslims being targetted on social media and smuggled across countries into Syria/Iraq, or the sale of Oil, or the training and arming of young people to blow themselves up, attack innocent people in far away cities and commit massacres, then the terrorist hotbeds having proven themselves incredibly capable of communication.
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8 terrorists killed, 7 were suicide attacks
Hollande has already talked about being in pitiless war, and just now, talked about a 'merciless' response. Both statements will cause more harm than good in the long term, and it's the people (particularly, but not limited to, the Muslims) who will bear the brunt of the blowback.
I think that a secular Middle East, would make things a bit more difficult for Saudi Arabia sheiks to finance ISIS/Al Qaeda.
Also, in a secularist state, it is a bit more difficult to brainwash people. And then the sympathy for these radical groups from average citizens would be a bit lower.
No offence, but isn't that what caused all this shit in the first place? Arrogant Global North nations rushing into another sovereign State to "liberate" it (read: oil) and not thinking through the consequences of their actions; or worse still, they thought through their actions and thought the ever-increasing turmoil in Syria, Iraq and other nations in and around the Middle East was a net-benefit and worth it.
A secular Middle East, like Iraq under Saddam, Egypt under Nasser, Mubarak and now Sisi, or Syria under the Assads?? There are millions of petro$ and barrels worth of reasons why Saudi's monarchy is so remarkably resilient, and the political make up of her neighbours isn't one of them.
EDIT - In fact, excluding the obviously odious and illegitimate ISIS 'Caliphate', Iran and Saudi are the only two nations in the Middle East, where you could say there is an actual theocracy in place.
It sounds like you haven't read enough news in the last ten years. I like your posts about football related things so I wouldn't put this down to your intelligence.
Plenty of people have been slaughtered by Hindus Christians and Buddhists in the last decade let alone all history. Look it up on Google. Its easy.
Saudi Arabia doesn't represent Islam. Every Islamic country doesn't follow wahabism or salafism. Its a religion of 1 billion people. If all 1 billion were violent you and I wouldn't be alive. I am a kashmiri Hindu and my family and others have been victims of ethnic cleansing by Islamic fundamentalists in Kashmir (India). Its very easy for me to point the finger at Islam and call it the enemy. But I think better sense should prevail.
Let's not generalize and label an entire faith because of a few bad apples.
No and yes. I'm talking about the supposed radicalising aspects that are happening which there is a known quantifiable area we can target to act against with education which has been going on worldwide.
Not the middle eastern problems as a whole which is a mix of centuries of cultural, religious and political issues. Problems which go way back further than the liberating west running in to save all that oil.
Fecking hell rimmy you actually managed to make me chuckle!
All my friends and family are fine, but a couple of friends of friends are still reported missing.
That's a problem, western countries need to understand that they created that, by wickening Iraq, Saddam Hussein wasn't a nice guy but he was a balancing figure. Sometimes you have to accept an evil that you know over one you don't know, they created an extremely weak state in the middle of an "unstable" continent.
Here in Holland you have entire neighbourhoods of youths with Middle-Eastern and African roots that hate the Western countries and I'm not kidding or exaggerating. They scream stuff like "death to the Jews" and they blame the US for killing "fellow Muslims" when in fact muslims are being killed the most by other muslims. I can imagine the situation being even worse in France with all their banlieus/suburbs in Paris and Marseille etc.
Fecking hell.
Before going on another war, the French need to do something about these ghettos then. It's clear that there's a problem there, that is perhaps being ignored right now.
Well we could have removed Saddam but still kept the military and political structure that was there in place, instead we wiped the slate completely clean and caused chaos and the vacuum. Saddam was a brutal evil dictator who would sacrifice everyone as long as it meant he staid on the throne. I was all for his removal from power, unfortunately the destruction of his political regime rather than evolving it was the biggest mistake the western governments could have made. Hindsight is great and all that.
The instability of the region goes well beyond the past 50 years though.
The French are already at war.
But we can't really solve the issue of radicalism until we, the West, stop meddling in the affairs of those very nations, be it either through direct intervention, such as Iraq in 2003, or implicitly through the propping up of so many reprehensible dictators who actively subjugate and dehumanise the masses, which leads them into the vulnerable position of being ripe for radicalisation.
It's not a simple case of giving the people of the Middle East Voltaire, Bentham, Locke, Ricardo, and Smith et al and expecting a sea change of opinion.
Personally, I think liberal democracy will never be an easy fit in such contexts. Our own democratic process took us centuries to engender, and we had an industrial revolution to boot. The Middle East, frankly hasn't needed one simply because of the rents it received from fossil fuels. It's way of understanding the world is substantially different to ours, and we should respect it rather than a) trying to change it; or b) propping up dictators for national security/foreign policy/economic best interests... Both of which have led to a considerable loss of life, and actively killing the prospects of the coming generations, not in Europe, but in these very same regions.
I fear that the wests response to these events will be just what the extremists want.
They are trying to insight a war, to build more support throughout their communities, they want a them and us situation.
Reading through what Hollande has said that is exactly what they are going to get.
Violence cannot win the day here, for every extremist killed just drives another to take up arms. You can't kill an idea after all.
What the West really need to do is look inward, work on social inclusion and making people who live here feel part of our countries and way of life. At the end of the day it is likely these attacks were by French citizens, that is where the answer lies.
They are trying to insight a war, to build more support throughout their communities, they want a them and us situation.
Reading through what Hollande has said that is exactly what they are going to get.
Violence cannot win the day here, for every extremist killed just drives another to take up arms. You can't kill an idea after all.
What the West really need to do is look inward, work on social inclusion and making people who live here feel part of our countries and way of life. At the end of the day it is likely these attacks were by French citizens, that is where the answer lies.
And have put into law that advocating a perfectly rational boycott of Israel in response to the illegal settlements in occupied territories is antisemitism... So much for liberty, egality, fraternity.
No, but it's not too much asked for the majority in a particular religious/cultural group to start hauling their asses and get rid of the bad apples with more aplomb on the other hand.
I wish our leaders could see things in the same way, unfortunately they won't and it'll be us who will ultimately pay the price.
Are you that dense as not to realise that it is Muslims who are overwhelmingly the majority of the victims of terrorism? Not forgetting the hideous amorphous nature of drone warfare by the US and UK among others, either which has killed and ruined the lives of innocents all over the world.
Seriously, read a book and not the Sun or the Daily Heil.
The worlds fecked. Over imaginary people of all things.
No, you're misunderstanding me on the education front, I'm not talking about giving them a classical european education nor am I talkign about it being in the middle east. The area of radicalisation as we think of it now is by the concerted and state funded efforts of a group for the past 40 years which have targeted countries the world over regardless of the middle east. This education needs to happen in countries like the UK and France just as much as it does in Pakistan and Indonesia. It's not to be done in a forceful way but the same way as the current Saudi funded efforts that were disguised as charity.
I'm not including the Middle East in this as there's a whole other slew if issues at play there. We could stop interfering and we would all still be watching images coming out of the region that would break our hearts.
Quite possibly the most disturbing thing I will ever see. There's not much the guy filming could have done to help without risking his own life, but I really don't think he should have been filming that.
1) You don't control a country or his population through temporary military presence.
2) When the invader supports local politicians, he devoids them from all legitimacy.
3) You never instigate the removal of A "dictator" from the outside, unless the local population already begun the removal.
I think the world needs to see it to realise how far extremists will go. It's one thing reading about it, it's another seeing it.
It brought a tear to my eye, horrible horrible world.
Like it or not our leaders are not driven by peace. Each state is driven by protecting and growing what is theirs, how can you ever have peace when wealth and power takes priority over equality.
The issues we face today aren't born of the last 10 or even 50 years. It's in the way humanity as a whole has progressed. 600 years ago your were the citizens of a town\village\county and would wage wars against others. Today you are a citizen of a country and wage wars against others that have what you want or won't follow you.
From our perspective what happened in France is a tragedy, but the West has been responsible for 100,000s of deaths by arming dictators who kill their own people to secure oil deals and foreign policy.
It sounds pathetic but we are all citizens of the world, however while we have governments who exploit poorer nations for wealth and billionaires who employ people for peanuts and buy islands and yachts rather than helping illness and poverty the world will be divided like it is now.