OT EVACUATED | Device signed as having been recovered, could NOT be detected by sniffer dogs

Slops said:
I don't know how you can attribute all of the blame on United, absolving the company that didn't account for all its equipment, considering the nature of that equipment.
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On the flip side, if you were head of security at Manchester United, wouldn't you want to know exactly what was being brought into your workplace, where is was being left, and if it had been collected? Would you leave your job to chance, and place faith in a 3rd party company to do there job properly? As head of security, wouldn't you want to involve some of your most experienced stewards to shadow the security team, see what they do, how they do it, have a look the dummy devices? Gain their knowledge for if a drill ever became a reality, wouldn't you want to film the exercise so you can brief your staff.

All sounds simple things to me, maybe this role doesn't exist, either way it could have been easily avoided.
 
Slops said:
I don't know how you can attribute all of the blame on United, absolving the company that didn't account for all its equipment, considering the nature of that equipment.
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No one is absolving the security company. Blame can fall into two or more categories.

When an incident such as plane crash or a roller coaster crash occurs, it is usually caused by multiple things going wrong at once:
  • There might be faulty instruments on the plane.
  • The pilot may have assumed the instruments were correct when he should have checked.
  • The pilot may not have had enough sleep between shifts
  • The alarms may not have gone off
And so on. So who's fault is it?.. Everyone's. Safety and security is everyone's responsibility.

If Manchester United wanted to, they could presumably sue the Security Company to high heaven for leaving the equipment, but some blame will still fall onto United.
 
decorativeed said:
I have a little bit of inside knowledge on this - knowing people who work matchdays at OT. The whole of the stadium is supposed to be swept by security staff - with the aid of sniffer dogs - before any match. It looks like they simply were not thorough enough. It seems to me like it was two failures - failure by the 'private company' to remove all the fake devices after the training exercise and failure of the prematch sweeping team.
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Who found the thing in the end?
 
decorativeed said:
I have a little bit of inside knowledge on this - knowing people who work matchdays at OT. The whole of the stadium is supposed to be swept by security staff - with the aid of sniffer dogs - before any match. It looks like they simply were not thorough enough. It seems to me like it was two failures - failure by the 'private company' to remove all the fake devices after the training exercise and failure of the prematch sweeping team.
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ChrisNelson said:
Working in Insurance & Legal for a construction company, this kind of scenario is not totally alien to me. Let's say we've been doing overnight work on a railway platform. When representatives of the Station arrive the following morning, they are required to sign to confirm that the platform is satisfactory. Then if someone trips over a screw (as happened once), we are in the clear.
This doesn't seem like the kind of scenario where United would feel the need to do such a sweep of the stadium as there were no changes to the structure taking place. Someone has decided, rightly or wrongly, that it would be assumed the training company had left the stadium in a satisfactory, mess free state. As soon as that company leaves, responsibility for keeping the stadium fit for purpose passes straight back to Manchester United. As careless as the training company are for leaving the device in situ, United are at least equally as culpable for it not being spotted before matchday. Fortunately the Title and relegation places are done and dusted because that would really have given the FA a headache. I hope this blows over quickly, mistakes were made and unfortunately they've been magnified because it occurred at a 76,000 seater stadium. Hopefully on reflection everyone can take the positives about how efficiently it was dealt with.
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Good stuff
 
Heard some murmurings that it the 'left behind training equipment' might be a bit of a cover story for something more genuine.
 
togg said:
I think it's pretty universally agreed that the reaction to finding this device was completely right and top notch. It's WHY it was there, not found before the crowd were already mostly in and who is responsible that people are arguing about.
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Nah, there are plenty of people in this thread who are acting like everyone employed at the club should have known it was a fake and left behind by the security company.
 
JustAFan said:
How big was this device? Seems it is growing in size by the hour to now being a "big fecking device" after starting out the size of a cell phone
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Really wanted to search for a comical, cartoon picture of one but decided it wouldn't be the best thing to search for at work.

So just imagine it, then also imagine it was actually really funny.

Edit:

Had a rethink

domJoly_1431416c.jpg
 
JustAFan said:
Do we know yet whether United hired this company to run a training drill or did the company ask to use OT as a training site for a drill?
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I think it's the latter. A similar drill was done at the Trafford Centre and it was supposed to be part of a series of training exercises.
 
Pexbo said:
People are aware that we contract our security out to a firm called CES?

Criticising United for this error is a bit ridiculous, the club is as much a victim of this incompetence as Bournemouth.
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The company that carried out the training excercise this week wasn't CES (as per Townsend's statement). It's a bit worrying that they didn't find it before they let people in but they didn't plant it earlier this week. And that's probably what caused the reaction.
 
JustAFan said:
Nah, there are plenty of people in this thread who are acting like everyone employed at the club should have known it was a fake and left behind by the security company.
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Not everyone at the club but someone.

Someone, should have known exactly what is going on, where these things are and if they have been collected.

Manchester United, have to ultimately carry the can for the mistakes their staff make, could be down to poor training, poor practices, cut backs, anything.

We are the biggest club in the world, make a feck load of money and this incident shouldn't have happened. However people want to dress this up, the club to some extent were negligent in their practices.

I take no pride in calling the club I love shambolic, embarrassing or a joke - I have no interest in trying to make the club look bad, but they have done themselves no favors.
 
This incident + being late for 2 games this season, just seems a bit amateur-ish IMHO
 
not sure if anyones touched on it, i know the bomb was a fake, but what if it wasn't and someone in the external security team planted a bomb? It could have just been sitting there for 4 days with none in OT having checked
 
Member 5225 said:
This incident + being late for 2 games this season, just seems a bit amateur-ish IMHO
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One of the latenesses was due to fans attacking the bus and this incident was in no way due to the club, but the security firm that left behind a fake bomb. Any chance to critique the club nowadays I guess.
 
Let's just wait for the details to emerge before jumping to con... ah feck it.
 
starman said:
not sure if anyones touched on it, i know the bomb was a fake, but what if it wasn't and someone in the external security team planted a bomb? It could have just been sitting there for 4 days with none in OT having checked
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If the security firm is anything like as badly run as G4S, then there's a definite possibility they could employ someone without proper background checks.
 
macheda14 said:
One of the latenesses was due to fans attacking the bus and this incident was in no way due to the club, but the security firm that left behind a fake bomb. Any chance to critique the club nowadays I guess.
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Yep. Not the club's fault that they allowed a life like bomb to sit in one of their toilets, at their own ground, for 4 days, unchecked, with no one spotting the fecker. Not even on the morning of the match, when every single area of the ground is checked.

If someone visits your house and does a shit in your toilet and doesn't flush it and you let it sit there for 4 days, unchecked and unflushed, whose fault is that?!
 
Member 5225 said:
This incident + being late for 2 games this season, just seems a bit amateur-ish IMHO
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You do know that being late for 2 games had ZERO to do with anything the club did right? I mean are we supposed to control London traffic, prevent other people from getting in accidents, then control where the cops direct the bus? Or are we supposed to control the West Ham fans? I mean come on, both those incidents were not caused by us.
 
Akash said:
Controlled explosion was carried out so must have been an explosive of some kind.
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Not really, a controlled explosion can be carried out on a bag of candy. They use a separate explosive charge or as previously stated a high powered jet of water to destroy the device. They don't actually set the device off.
 
JustAFan said:
You do know that being late for 2 games had ZERO to do with anything the club did right? I mean are we supposed to control London traffic, prevent other people from getting in accidents, then control where the cops direct the bus? Or are we supposed to control the West Ham fans? I mean come on, both those incidents were not caused by us.
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Have schedules changed in recent years? It used to be that the team/teams would arrive 3 hours before kick off
 
JustAFan said:
You do know that being late for 2 games had ZERO to do with anything the club did right? I mean are we supposed to control London traffic, prevent other people from getting in accidents, then control where the cops direct the bus? Or are we supposed to control the West Ham fans? I mean come on, both those incidents were not caused by us.
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Everyone else, fans, officials, the opposition were able to make it on time. Probably because they planned ahead and left themselves a bit of time in case they got a puncture or there was a bit of heavy traffic. Common sense, really. You don't see other teams visiting London having the same problems Utd had this season.
 
There is no blame whatsoever on the club for the fact that it was left behind. That is completely on the security company that was doing it.

Now, if was in a fairly obvious place, then there is some blame on the club that it wasn't found in the four days leading up to the match. That's not good enough. However if it was well hidden then even that doesn't come back on us. Albeit, the random member of the public finding it indicates it was fairly easy to spot, but you never know.
 
MadDogg said:
There is no blame whatsoever on the club for the fact that it was left behind. That is completely on the security company that was doing it.

Now, if was in a fairly obvious place, then there is some blame on the club that it wasn't found in the four days leading up to the match. That's not good enough. However if it was well hidden then even that doesn't come back on us. Albeit, the random member of the public finding it indicates it was fairly easy to spot, but you never know.
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Yeah waiting to find out where exactly it was hidden (if they will let that info out) and how it was found.
 
.Rossi said:
Have schedules changed in recent years? It used to be that the team/teams would arrive 3 hours before kick off
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Not sure how far before the game teams are supposed to arrive. I remember reading the Guardians MBM that either for the Spurs game or the West Ham game the home side was also late arriving, but still got there before the game was scheduled to start and it was not 3 hours before the game was supposed to start either.
 
Spoony said:
Couldn't have been that well hidden considering someone spotted it just before the game.
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Possibly or possibly it was a bit of luck they spotted it. How many other people used that bathroom that day without noticing it? Was the person who found it the first person in the rest room that day? IT is very possible it was sitting out in the open and others just really did not pay attention. It could also have been a bit of luck that someone spotted it at all. If it was too obvious then it sort of defeats the idea of the exercise. But at this point we really have no idea.
 
JustAFan said:
Possibly or possibly it was a bit of luck they spotted it. How many other people used that bathroom that day without noticing it? Was the person who found it the first person in the rest room that day? IT is very possible it was sitting out in the open and others just really did not pay attention. It could also have been a bit of luck that someone spotted it at all. If it was too obvious then it sort of defeats the idea of the exercise. But at this point we really have no idea.
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The fact they left it there defeats the exercise in and of itself, considering it led to a real live situation at a time people are vulnerable to suggestion.
 
.Rossi said:
Yep. Not the club's fault that they allowed a life like bomb to sit in one of their toilets, at their own ground, for 4 days, unchecked, with no one spotting the fecker. Not even on the morning of the match, when every single area of the ground is checked.

If someone visits your house and does a shit in your toilet and doesn't flush it and you let it sit there for 4 days, unchecked and unflushed, whose fault is that?!
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So you're telling me that you'd blame yourself and not the person who shat and didn't flush?
 
MadDogg said:
There is no blame whatsoever on the club for the fact that it was left behind. That is completely on the security company that was doing it.

Now, if was in a fairly obvious place, then there is some blame on the club that it wasn't found in the four days leading up to the match. That's not good enough. However if it was well hidden then even that doesn't come back on us. Albeit, the random member of the public finding it indicates it was fairly easy to spot, but you never know.
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I'm sorry, I can't agree with that.

The club should have known where any fake devices were placed, give the security guys a map, mark with an X where they will be. Then it would be that persons job to double check that they had been removed - why leave these things to chance?

The club have to take some responsibility that somewhere down the line they fecked up.
 
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