I understand a member of the public found it? Which begs the question how the hell was it missed. I mean....what was he doing in that toilet that led him to find it that the sweep couldn't!
I'm guessing some white powder...
OT EVACUATED | Device signed as having been recovered, could NOT be detected by sniffer dogs
- Thread starter Badunk
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I'm guessing some white powder...
Because you then don't have to supply, pay for and train the security. It doesn't absolve you of responsibility. It should certainly be cheaper than having your own full time security firm, especially when you are only going to need them once or twice a week.
Some drama queens in this thread, if anything the way the evacuation was handled and the refunding of fans/free entry to the replay says more about the club than the suspect package being mistakenly left behind.
Get a grip, the only embarrassing thing about this whole scenario is some of the fans reaction to it.
Get a grip, the only embarrassing thing about this whole scenario is some of the fans reaction to it.
Marcus Rashford in away games?
It is true I don't have time for fools. You are the one seeking to defend the indefensible.
Just for one moment suppose this device had been real and had not been left be a Company conducting a training exercise but had been planted by a terrorist. Then just suppose it had been set to go off at a time before or just as it was discovered. Just think about that and then think about how it later comes out that said device had been undetected in full view for several days prior to the incident.
There will be an enquiry into this and United will not come out of it well. Mark my words.
Gunpowder?
I can just imagine the security guy in charge of placing the fake bombs proudly chatting to a colleague after completing his task...
"Found a brilliant hiding place for bomb number 4, bet they'll never find that one!"
"Found a brilliant hiding place for bomb number 4, bet they'll never find that one!"
It's pretty embarrassing.
Ruined the end of the season for the premier league (the Premier League would have loved another AGUERRROOOOO, as much as we would have hated it), ruined a day out for 70,000 people and many, many more around the world.
Okay, let's remove the hyperbole. No one was hurt or killed. The stewards, club and fans responded near perfectly as soon as it was discovered. This isn't anything like an Alton Towers or a NASA/Lockheed metric/imperial mistake. 10 years down the line people will have mostly forgotten about it. But it's not been a good weekend for the club.
I also think it took away our chance to put a bit of pressure on City. If we'd been winning our match they may have felt rather nervier in the final minutes of theirs than they did.
Don't disagree, but I don't think we can presume that every other Premier League stadium, including yours, has better security than United - so perhaps our mistake can help all clubs update their security measures. Sure, if the authorities want to punish us fine, dock us three points - won't make a lot of difference to our season to be honest!!
Okay, well, to be fair... the CIA left some explosives on a School Bus last month:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...osives-in-virginia-school-bus-after-k-9-drill
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...osives-in-virginia-school-bus-after-k-9-drill
It's just great seeing people desperate to see this as an extension of 'United's shambolic season' or whatever. 
It's just great seeing people desperate to see this as an extension of 'United's shambolic season' or whatever.
not really...it's just adds to the general often said feelings of how shoddily the club is being run these days.....just adds fuel the fire really.
It's just great seeing people desperate to see this as an extension of 'United's shambolic season' or whatever.
Well, I mean, regardless what portion of the blame you attribute to United (I fail to see how the answer to this can be zero, but I digress)... having the final game of the season cancelled because a security firm accidentally left a pretend bomb in a loo and nobody found it for a couple of days IS a bit of a shambles... thus, such a shambolic event will in turn be an extension of our completely shambolic season... even if it's got nothing to do with why our season has been a shambles before this point.
Shambles.
I thought that searching for bombs was done by the police sniffer dogs. I think that GMP are most at fault.
But it has nothing to do with football, and was left there through someone else's negligence, not ours. Make no mistake, our security may be responsible for not having found it sooner, but the lion's share of the blame has to be down to the external company that didn't account for all of their equipment, when their equipment is designed to look like actual explosives.
Even if it is on the club, I don't see how it relates to our football. It's entirely a police/security issue. For some it just seems to be any excuse to twist the knife, at this point.
It could easily be missed if it was as allegedly reported "taped to the back of a loo door". Go in, scrub the bogs one by one, I doubt every cleaner checks every little inch of a loo before giving it the all clear. But, as always, this little incident gives us a reminder to be thorough in our work and do the best job we can.
Working in Insurance & Legal for a construction company, this kind of scenario is not totally alien to me. Let's say we've been doing overnight work on a railway platform. When representatives of the Station arrive the following morning, they are required to sign to confirm that the platform is satisfactory. Then if someone trips over a screw (as happened once), we are in the clear.
This doesn't seem like the kind of scenario where United would feel the need to do such a sweep of the stadium as there were no changes to the structure taking place. Someone has decided, rightly or wrongly, that it would be assumed the training company had left the stadium in a satisfactory, mess free state. As soon as that company leaves, responsibility for keeping the stadium fit for purpose passes straight back to Manchester United. As careless as the training company are for leaving the device in situ, United are at least equally as culpable for it not being spotted before matchday. Fortunately the Title and relegation places are done and dusted because that would really have given the FA a headache. I hope this blows over quickly, mistakes were made and unfortunately they've been magnified because it occurred at a 76,000 seater stadium. Hopefully on reflection everyone can take the positives about how efficiently it was dealt with.
This doesn't seem like the kind of scenario where United would feel the need to do such a sweep of the stadium as there were no changes to the structure taking place. Someone has decided, rightly or wrongly, that it would be assumed the training company had left the stadium in a satisfactory, mess free state. As soon as that company leaves, responsibility for keeping the stadium fit for purpose passes straight back to Manchester United. As careless as the training company are for leaving the device in situ, United are at least equally as culpable for it not being spotted before matchday. Fortunately the Title and relegation places are done and dusted because that would really have given the FA a headache. I hope this blows over quickly, mistakes were made and unfortunately they've been magnified because it occurred at a 76,000 seater stadium. Hopefully on reflection everyone can take the positives about how efficiently it was dealt with.
Were you at the game yesterday? Just wondering....
I was, and I agree with that post to be honest.
So was I and I thought the reaction of match going fans was fantastic. Nothing for fans to embarrassed about, the club on the other hand should be very very embarrassed...
The Black Eyed Peas liked thisThen they are terrorists?
Its clearly not uniteds fault. Stop being a weirdo. I know you're angry after a few crap seasons but we don't actually know where the bomb was hidden so its not neccessary for us to blame united for everything.
No reason to clean the toilets since wednesday as no matches were played.
The 'bomb' was part of a training exercise so quite possibly hidden from view. If i came to your house and chucked some semtex down the back of your bog would you know? Probably not.
Absolutely the security firms fault. If a business hired a building company to make some changes and the building company injured a member of the public somehow, its the building companys fault. Not the business who hired them.
I don't know how you can attribute all of the blame on United, absolving the company that didn't account for all its equipment, considering the nature of that equipment.
So this security firm must have had a supervisor supervising. Ticking boxes. Also assuming this toilet was the place being focused on - there must be a group of people. Are we to believe not ONE of them remembered the 'device'? Surely they 'fake' detonated the device? (played the scenario). What did they do then? Forget the room they were standing in and why they were there? People naturally say it's a prank when they hear these kind of things but it goes further then that. It simply don't make sense that someone put it there and everyone forgot. It also don't make sense that we didn't hear about them until much later. Surely someone at the club has a record as to where these 'tests' are held and can put 2 and 2 together? Would be interesting to know, at what time did we contact them or whether they contacted us
It's not entirely Uniteds fault, it's not entirely the Security company's fault. Neither are entirely blameless and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
The security firm are not blameless as they owe a duty of care to Manchester United, however the club owe the same duty of care to the 76,000 fans so there's no way we can pass on the blame. I would have thought a pre-match check of the toilets to confirm they are in an acceptable state probably takes less than 5 minutes.
The club will have to shoulder some of the blame, perhaps this is just hindsight, but surely someone who works for the club should be responsible for checking in / out items that are brought into the stadium, especially fake devices?
It's a little bit naive to trust a 3rd party company to do their job properly, regardless of what they specialise in / how experienced they are, ultimately somebody at the club should have been aware exactly what was happening. Of course the security company should take the majority of the blame, but I certainly don't think fans are overacting when they say this is shambolic.
The refund is a nice gesture but I'm sure I wasn't the only parent / grandparent having to keep a young Utd fan positive last night, for someone who has been looking forward to the game, listening to Utd stories and building up to the event for 2 weeks, it's fecking heartbreaking.
All in all, regardless of who is to blame, it's a complete and utter farce, one that could have led to serious panic and it's a bad day for the club.
Also, the rescheduled game, why put it at 8 o'clock? play it at 5 and let the school kids watch it.
It's a little bit naive to trust a 3rd party company to do their job properly, regardless of what they specialise in / how experienced they are, ultimately somebody at the club should have been aware exactly what was happening. Of course the security company should take the majority of the blame, but I certainly don't think fans are overacting when they say this is shambolic.
The refund is a nice gesture but I'm sure I wasn't the only parent / grandparent having to keep a young Utd fan positive last night, for someone who has been looking forward to the game, listening to Utd stories and building up to the event for 2 weeks, it's fecking heartbreaking.
All in all, regardless of who is to blame, it's a complete and utter farce, one that could have led to serious panic and it's a bad day for the club.
Also, the rescheduled game, why put it at 8 o'clock? play it at 5 and let the school kids watch it.
It clearly is in part United's fault. No one's saying it's all United fault just that they'll face ultimate responsibility.
Somebody on our side must have been responsible for overseeing the activity including being aware of where they were working and what the plan was and ensuring it was in a good state afterwards. It's the failure of one rather low down the ladder employee so it's not the 'club' but it's still our name.
The police commissioner who rightly seems to be angry won't be absolving United of all blame you can be certain.
It is the club's responsibility under their Safety Certificate to sweep the stadium 24 hours before kick off. I am personally a little concerned they managed to miss a big fecking (albeit fake) bomb!
All in all this is going to cost the club in excess of £5m and possibly much more. Depending on their contract with the external company they *may* be able to pass the liability on but I'd not be holding my breath.
Still a £37 refund from the club and free entry on Tuesday - will pay for my beer money at Wembley! :-)
Thats where the focus should be.
There had been some serious mismanagement issues in the past years which I haven't seen throughout my years supporting United. We have arrived late to the Spurs game, our coach was attacked in London (I won't be surprised if it happened in countries were hooliganism is still present like for example Turkey or Italy but London? seriously?) and now this. Meanwhile our endemic problems haven't been sorted (injury crisis, shitty football etc) Its very difficult to pinpoint the fault to somebody. However either we were extremely unlucky this year or I do not know.
Remember how our resident Scousers wanted to win the league on goal difference by putting 8 past Palace and Newcastle. That went well.
LVG will go all out in this game. It will be the pinnacle of our philosophy, the end of every process. I am confident that we will create at least 4 chances of goal.
One in the eye for all those saying drugs are bad for your health.
I have a little bit of inside knowledge on this - knowing people who work matchdays at OT. The whole of the stadium is supposed to be swept by security staff - with the aid of sniffer dogs - before any match. It looks like they simply were not thorough enough. It seems to me like it was two failures - failure by the 'private company' to remove all the fake devices after the training exercise and failure of the prematch sweeping team.
Absolutely. There's gonna be some red faces after they pre-emptively awarded Kane the golden boot ahead of Martial's quintuple hat-trick.
Well about 2 pints anyway!
I'm not angry, I find the whole thing a bit embarrassing mixed with a lot of relief. But the blame goes through us.
If you own a company, and you subcontract a job out and the company you subcontracted too injures someone, then you are still responsible. You can then probably sue the company who you contracted to do the work, but you are still yourself responsible.
http://businessdatabase.indicator.c...a_sub_contractor_s_mistake_/UKTACDAR_EU110804
http://www.insureon.com/blog/post/2...-guide-to-contractor-liability-insurance.aspx
We can argue about the technical definitions here all day long, but it's clear as day that United are responsible whilst this security company are carrying out drills on their property, United are responsible after this security company leave, and United are responsible for not checking the toilets afterwards. Sure, United can sue this security company (especially if they got them to sign to say they had taken away all their equipment), but that doesn't absolve United in the first place.