Name them.
Nicolas Otamendi | City Player
- Thread starter KM
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Name them.
So you say, but we dont seem to be which suggests the better ones like Godin cost too much for their age or simply dont want to come to the 4th placed team in the premier league - which could probably be solved with much higher wages than Otamendi, but you get my point
There are a few CBs who are better than Otamendi, but if we're decided on him it must mean we looked at the rest and they are less value or not available. Thats the only explaination right?
Besides, 12-18 months ago everyone was hyping Mangala up as the best option and wanting us to pay £30 million or more for him. Sometimes people get it wrong
By using the expression 'in their right mind' you proved my point, it's your subjective opinion.
I would also add that in my opinion you can only judge objectively the price of a player, in the same window and by comparing two or more transfers of players playing at the same level, for the same type of teams and who are joining two teams in the same context. And that's next to impossible.
we need some experience in the defence, not more kids. Stones has a lot to prove before he is starting 11 material for United; Otamendi already is that player.
I don't know. I'm not a scout. Hell, I couldn't even tell you if Otamendi is very good. But £35m is big money, especially for a CB. No one else is likely to match the clause either I would imagine, so there's clearly no need to rush into paying a massive fee.
Very good point.
If our budget is £35m for a CB, then we'll have options for possibly better or just similar level players.
Thats the thing, in honesty, there are not many top class CBs around. I can only really think of Godin(29) who may be attainable & Thiago Silva(30) who is not likely attainable.
Other than Hummels (who has been questionable for a couple of seasons) well I don't really think there are many CBs out there who are of a decent age who we could sign for £35m.
We tried to sign this lad in January so I think the club have pretty much made their mind up on him I'd say.
If I could pick any CB I would pick Koscielny but even he is 29 seems to be injured a bit too and good luck signing him from Arsenal.
There is no better CBs on the market, the top options are Otamendi, Laporte, Godin, Gimenez and Stones. They are almost all more expensive than Otamendi, the two atletico players don't want to move, and Laporte and Stones aren't experienced.
"even though i don't know how good the player is, and have no idea of any better alternatives, £35m is too much!"
perfect reasonable statement, that. let's just leave it to the scouting gods to magically identify a world class talent that no one else has heard of, playing in the sahara or congo or somewhere. that's the way to win a title!
Valencia seem quite tough to negotiate with these days. Barcelona tried to haggle when buying Mathieu, but ended up paying the release clause. It was "only" something like 16 million pounds, but it's still quite a bit of money for a somewhat unheralded 30 year old centerback.
They need the money, they can't afford to make any gifts, that's also why they are willing to sell.
Yeah and Otamendi was an improvement on Mathieu who Barcelona wanted and without being in his 30s
Is it that hard to grasp? I'm stating that £35m is huge money for a CB. It's not that unreasonable an assumption that there is more than one good CB available for over £35m. Maybe he is the best option, I don't know but if we're willing to spend this much money on a CB, I think we can get a decent one either way.
I thought Laporte and Godin's release clauses are lower than Otamendi's. No idea about Gimenez, and even if people were thinking about Stones, I think even Everton may be tempted by £35m+
it is an unreasonable assumption, particularly when you can't name an alternative. yes £35m is a lot, but in an age where Di Maria goes for £60m and Shaw £30m, it doesn't seem quite so unreasonable for probably the best available CB on the market.
Godin isn't available, and is 2 years older. Stones and Laporte are kids - we need experience at the back. if Stones continues to progress, then I'm sure we will look at him in the seasons to come.
Laporte clause is around 40m€, for Godin I heard that it was more around 60m than 35m. And Godin don't want to leave Madrid.
this
Agree completely. Experience is what we need. A leader, not more youngsters.
Aren't they past their financial troubles since Lim bought them? Still though, it would be hard for them to hold on to Otamendi if we're interested anyway and it seems his agent is on the offensive.
Time for Ed to crack open the 'war chest'.
This will be one hell of a saga should we opt not to pay the clause. Don't think Valencia will accept anything below.
You obviously wasn't here when he was still at the club. And there's that, calling him a very limited player. It seems people just remember him during his last seasons for United. Fact is, O'Shea played almost 400 games at Manchester United at various position, at one of the most successful period of the club. A 'very limited' player wouldn't get close to that, he'll be shipped out after a few games. At one point in his career, he was one of the best left back in the league (2002-2003), a first choice midfielder (half a season partnering Giggs which only lost 1 game IIRC), and damn good cover for any defensive position and holding midfield. Let me repeat that I think Blind is a better footballer than O'Shea, but it looked like he'll be doing the exact same job that O'Shea during his career here, and considering what O'Shea achieved, I think there's no shame in that.
Talent directly correlated with fees. Blind was sold after he won the Eridivisie POTY award for 16 million. I'd wager that if we sold O'Shea after the 2002-2003 season, we'd get a similar amount of money (adjusted for inflation of course).
Oh yeah, and Otamendi, if comparison with Ayala is true, I'd love him here. Ayala was one of my favorite players.
Once again fees has nothing to do with what you're saying. Else Scholes would be around 30-60 times better than Real's Ronaldo. Also OShea was a very limited player. However SAF knew how to use him well and the boy never complained. Hence why he remained while others left.
No, they still have a stadium to finish, they haven't pay they debt to the City and the region. Lim 'lend' them enough money to avoid bankruptcy, if I'm not mistaken.
Edit: @Ekeke is that right?
I don't need to go searching around. If he's the best in the market then fair enough. All I'm saying is that clearly, we're willing to spend a considerable amount of money and I think we will get a good CB in, whether it be Otamendi or someone else.
Also, you talk about experience, but that to me seems more like age, more than anything. From wikipedia anyway, he's not exactly the most experienced defender.
Don't know why you keep mentioning Scholes, it's a completely different argument. I mentioned the fee because Blind was bought for big money doing O'Shea job. But O'Shea got a bad rep here while Blind was considered much better. He isn't.
Not seen him enough to judge but if Van Gaal wants most of his signings done before we go on tour and is trying to implement a style and a team to hit the ground running then why would be so adament on signing a bloke who is likely to miss the first few fixtures due to playing in a summer tournament? It means starting again with our defence after a few games and it may be a case of a a new goalie aswell to get settled- surely Hummels would be a better option as he would be there from day one ready to play and would have a summer getting to know his team mates- unless Otamendi is so good that waiting will not be a big deal? Just seems to go against what Van Gaal has said ...
Hummels is staying at Dortmund.
Not neccesarilly, i know Zorc was quoted as saying he had rejected United- but is that really true? I have not seen a direct quote- only a quote saying he is staying but how many times have we heard that in the past ?- if we offer them 35 million i doubt they would turn it down...
I'm a little glad hes been made unavailable tbh, hes really had a poor season.
So is this actually happening? I'm not up to date on the rumour mill.
They do have to finish the stadium, but as far as I'm aware Lim will take care of all their responsibilities so they no longer need to make money from sales. Thats why they can afford to turn down large bids and force a team to pay Otamendi's release clause. In previous seasons they'd have to sell, they dont anymore
Mark Ogden has just done an article saying Hummels is the top target alongside interest in Howedes and Alves but we currently do not have interest in Otamendi and interest in Clyne has cooled.
This needs sorting, if they are going to sign him, as soon as possible. Don't want him joining up with the squad too late.
If van Gaal chooses for Otamendi over Hummels that could be for a couple of reasons. We have 4 senior centrebacks, 2 youth centrebacks and we've still used Carrick and Blind at centreback this season because of injuries, Hummels for Evans wouldn't really be an upgrade in that sense. If we lose de Gea we also get weakened alot defensively and Otamendi has that strength over Hummels. He could also settle in more easily since he knows Rojo and Di Maria.
LvG wants his centrebacks to pass their way out under pressure without punting the ball, in the worst case he wants them to pass back towards the goalkeeper if possible. I don't know exactly how good Otamendi is in that regard, but van Gaal's centrebacks don't neccesarily have to be great passers. If he buys him I'm sure he will think Otamendi has enough potential to work in the system.
Good centrebacks are scarce, van Gaal knows this and I think he'll prefer waiting a bit longer on 1 player if that means he gets the right one. Our transfers will generally be done quickly so if it's only Otamendi who comes in late that's less of a problem than last season.
Ogden won't know anything and really either will any English based juro(United have pretty much been water tight seen LVG arrived). The only leaks will be from the selling club or player.
Yeah, he will take care of the current debt, but the club still need to create money for the future.
You keep putting the fee + talent issue. Scholes was 'bought' for free in the same way OShea was.
If Argentina go to the final, he will be back in mid July anyway which is not too bad. I guess this transfer will be just like Herrera on here. Many were disappointed because we didn't get Cesc until they watched him play.
Exactly. People call him experienced because he is 27. But I don't see more experience in him than in Jones or Smalling. He had one full season La Liga, two seasons in Portugal? No big tournament,a couple of group stage games in the CL and 19 caps for Argentina. Hummels for example is one year younger and has much more games on the highest stage. Someone like Laporte isn't that much behind despite beeing very young, would prefer him to be honest.
I am still not really sure on Otamendi, could be someone like Benatia, who is reaching his best level pretty late, but could also be a overperformer this season. After all, the whole Valencia back 4 looked pretty good and with a defence it's often more about the unit than the single individual.
People here don't want to sign Kane, because he had just one brilliant season. Here it doesn't seem the case, just because Otamendi isn't young anymore. But for me it's similiar, that big fee is a huge risk and I don't want us to end up with our own Mangala. Godin is 2 years older, but that would be a as safe as possible world class transfer for that position.
Do you have a link? I dont want Howedes, not good enough.
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