Yeah I wouldn't have posted it if it wasn't the BBC, but of course it's still just paper gossip..
Neymar
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That's a beautiful way of calling him a fecking pussy mate, I admire that.
So true. On the other hand, this is so unlikely to happen that everyone would be taking it with a pinch of salt.So, basically what you have just done there is confirmed my point.
If you are counting players who finish between 1st and 3rd on Ballon D'Or then all you have done is pointed out the fact that the Premier League has filled 7 (1st to 3rds) out of a possible 45 (1st to 3rds) positions over the past 15-years.
So the Premier League - mostly regarded as the greatest league in the world - only fills 15% of the top three Ballon D'Or places.
As I said, it's much more difficult for the world's greatest to shine as an individual in the Premier League as opposed to other countries. This can't even be a debate, surely. Don't we all know this? Football in England is a lot more pragmatic than it is abroad...the threat of great individuals is stemmed here more than anywhere else in the world.
Falcoa, Morientes, Di Maria, Forlan, Cuadrado, Salah, Ruiz, Van Der Meyde, Veron, Bogarde, Soldado, Brolin, Rebrov, Shevchenko, ALves....etc, etc, etc - that list can go on and on and on. That's just off the top of my head. Big players in other leagues around the world can't stand out in the Premier League.
@TheBiggest Nonsense, Luis Suarez? Dominant force in Premiership, nearly single handedly winning the title
And 'most' do not recognize the Premiership as the greatest league in the world, that's a fallacy by just about any metric except money & exposure
The list of players who did not thrive in England does not support that theory of yours either, it only underscores that a player cannot win everything on their own and instead depend on system, coaches, teammates, tactics etc nevermind that several in that list arrived after their peak - Di Maria the only exception in that list and he has not lit France on fire nevermind Europe or Argentina. And Salah? The one year wonder from the Suisse league that was purchased after humiliating Mou's Chelsea side? No point of him in that list.
You also omitted several individuals on your list who actually have thrived in England. Has David Silva somehow struggled to shine in the Premiership after showing his quality in Spain? Leroy Sane? KDB? Aguero? Zlatan? Alexis?
On the flip side, how about the fact that Vades was relegated to the youth team at United yet now starting for Boro or Falcao struggling at United yet integral at Monaco does more to reveal that not being used properly will mask a great deal than somehow Premiership being more difficult to adapt to. Cesc was a failure at Barcelona by most accounts and despite being a cantera player & star in England, he couldn't replicate that form in Spain. Pedro was geat at Barcelona, struggled Under Mou at Chelsea yet now integral to Conte's success at the same club - ditto for Hazard. Robben was not a success ultimately at Chelsea or RM but perhaps more down to injuries before finding his form & fitness in Germany - no one doubts his quality because he didn't manage it at Chelsea, just down to misfortune with injuries. Overlooking the fact that CR shined as an individual in the Premiership & in Spain too
A CIES study also revealed recently that among the top domestic leagues in Europe, English players in the Premiership struggled for starting minutes over foreign players more so than of the other top leagues - what does that say about individuals in a pragmatic league? There are loads of Primera & Bundesliga players in the Premiership which points to the fact that shallow talent pool has demanded foreign infusion rather than the league not allowing talent to be showcased. The larger point however is that the upper echelon talents simply have not been in England but abroad, for many years I would add - and that does not appear to be changing anytime soon. Case in point, Monaco seems to be the club de jour for bringing in more foreign talent
And 'most' do not recognize the Premiership as the greatest league in the world, that's a fallacy by just about any metric except money & exposure
The list of players who did not thrive in England does not support that theory of yours either, it only underscores that a player cannot win everything on their own and instead depend on system, coaches, teammates, tactics etc nevermind that several in that list arrived after their peak - Di Maria the only exception in that list and he has not lit France on fire nevermind Europe or Argentina. And Salah? The one year wonder from the Suisse league that was purchased after humiliating Mou's Chelsea side? No point of him in that list.
You also omitted several individuals on your list who actually have thrived in England. Has David Silva somehow struggled to shine in the Premiership after showing his quality in Spain? Leroy Sane? KDB? Aguero? Zlatan? Alexis?
On the flip side, how about the fact that Vades was relegated to the youth team at United yet now starting for Boro or Falcao struggling at United yet integral at Monaco does more to reveal that not being used properly will mask a great deal than somehow Premiership being more difficult to adapt to. Cesc was a failure at Barcelona by most accounts and despite being a cantera player & star in England, he couldn't replicate that form in Spain. Pedro was geat at Barcelona, struggled Under Mou at Chelsea yet now integral to Conte's success at the same club - ditto for Hazard. Robben was not a success ultimately at Chelsea or RM but perhaps more down to injuries before finding his form & fitness in Germany - no one doubts his quality because he didn't manage it at Chelsea, just down to misfortune with injuries. Overlooking the fact that CR shined as an individual in the Premiership & in Spain too
A CIES study also revealed recently that among the top domestic leagues in Europe, English players in the Premiership struggled for starting minutes over foreign players more so than of the other top leagues - what does that say about individuals in a pragmatic league? There are loads of Primera & Bundesliga players in the Premiership which points to the fact that shallow talent pool has demanded foreign infusion rather than the league not allowing talent to be showcased. The larger point however is that the upper echelon talents simply have not been in England but abroad, for many years I would add - and that does not appear to be changing anytime soon. Case in point, Monaco seems to be the club de jour for bringing in more foreign talent
We aren't the Galacticos and we shouldn't aim to be either.
Neymar is world class no doubt but agree with others we should concentrate on getting players in that we desperately need. For me priorities are 2 central midfielders, A leftback and another Striker.
Neymar is world class no doubt but agree with others we should concentrate on getting players in that we desperately need. For me priorities are 2 central midfielders, A leftback and another Striker.
I agree. As great as Neymar is, for that price I'd have verratti, Fabinho, and Greizman, with change left for an LB and perhaps a CB.
Except you wouldn't. Given the circumstances Veratti alone would cost close to 150 most likely
It's a rumour from the Sport, for crying out loud. Bbc just click gathering
That's too easy to say, soldado? Rebrov? Lol
He have had lots of players who do stand out for every one of those players you mentioned.
Be interesting to see if a player who has been over looked whilst playing in the prem went on to win player of the year
lol Shevchenko was a Balon D'or winner. How is a Balon D'or and Champions league winner, Balon D'or Bronze (2) not a bigger deal than Pogba? Obviously marketing wise Pogba is bigger but as a footballer, of course he isn't a bigger footballer than Andriy who has actually reached the level of worlds best. The season before he came Chelsea he was top scorer in Champions League. Pogba does not have these levels of achievements in his career, except you have been sold by the marketing ploy, overstating him as one of the worlds best when he is not at those levels.
Ballack - way more accolades than Pogba by the time of his move to Chelsea, both on a football sense and individual awards including 2 world cup team of the tournaments. He also is a benchmark for Pogba in terms of being a goal scoring midfielder. How is Pogba a bigger name in footballing terms?
Crespo was one of the biggest signings in history (on his football ability, not marketing appeal) and if you were alive in the 90's, you'd know his accolades.
Bergkamp - came to England a former European championship top scorer, team of the tournament, Balon D'or runner up and 3rd place, World Player of the Year 3rd place, World Top goalscorer of the year etc etc. This is the kind of awards Iniesta and Neymar would be winning today, so it is only fair to speak of Bergkamp in those terms. Again, far bigger than Pogba.
Veron - received accolades for his showing in world cup 98 in their team of the tournament bench. He thus performed on the big stage as well as being a Serie A legend.
The problem I have is people like yourself give Pogba the hype without his football having deserved it. He is yet to have done much at world class level (outside of serie A) and has few memorable tournaments where he has shone. Yet you suggest he was a bigger name than those who had done just that prior to their move, often as th Also those players named, had far more recognition in their footballing achievements than Pogba. I believe the transfer cost and marketing hype as skewed your views. These guys had proven to be amoungst the Worlds best for many years.
Only Zola, Ravenelli, Vialli, possibly Ballack; so about half. The rest went onto big things even later on.
Not at all. It just means that very few players can outshine Messi and Ronaldo. Then there is just one place up for grabs lol. Before the Messi and Ronaldo monopoly, it was a fairly even spread actually. My conclusion is that it is near impossible for anyone to outshine Messi and Ronaldo in any league. Other players shine, but not as bright as them. case closed
Are we discussing the balon d'or here? Come on. As if cristiano deserved it in 2013 over ribery, or deserved to be in the top 3 in 2015 or messi deserved to be in the top 3 in 2010...
Does anyone really believe that there is even the slightest possibility of this happening? Seriously?? A nothing story that will come up again and again over the next few years.
There is a lot of favouritsm in the Balon D'or but the gentleman believes that due to Spains monopoly, it means players find it hard to shine in the premier league when it simply isn't true. I mean Vardy and Mahrez appeared in the top 10 players when clearly they aren't top 10 players. It was because they shone
The problem I have with people like you is that you confuse hype with potential. There is substance behind marketing most of the time, there is a reason players like Neymar get hype at a young age despite people like you thinking its just the sports brands who have got them there. Pogba was in three team of the years in Italy had won numerous leagues and trophies, just been to a world cup final, champions league final and been named in the fifpro and uefa team of the years. He had the biggest clubs in the world chasing him at a time where the strength of the premier leagues pulling power was being questioned on a regular basis due to constant failings in European competition and repeatedly losing our best players and missing out on targets to la liga.
Shevchenko was 30. The same age Michael owen was when we signed him also a balon d'or winner. It isn't a massive signing if there is any element of career going downward happening, or if there best years have already been, which was absolutely the case.
Crespo had been riddled with injuries and came at a different time on the football landscape, barcleona and real Madrid weren't at the level they are at now, I mean Valencia won the league. Also Milan didn't have great ambition, look at the vieri interview from the time, they routinely finished as a bridesmaid and sold their best players.
Ballack 30.
Bergkamp, I don't really know to be honest I was 5 at the time, having looked into it though it seems he was hounded out of Italy with one papers column the donkey of the week being renamed bergkamp of the week, and a new owner who promised to invest wanting him out and getting his way. I recognise he is a turning point in the premier league so you may be right on this one but its hard for me to comment, definitely doesn't seem that straightforward.
Veron- behave. He was nowhere near as decorated as pogba individually or through team success. Literally that last paragraph you wrote about Pogba is much more relevant to veron that its embarrassing you would write those things.
I'm ignoring the other ones you put in your initial post because I see you've already edited down possibly from embarrassment.
Pogba was younger than any player you have brought up, was leaving fully on his own terms and had a choice of top clubs.
In the future I'd back your condescension up with more substance because it makes you look dismissive and smug to write things like LOL like a thirteen year old or 'the problem I have with people like you' get over yourself mate.
Not that I believe this would happen but would be great not just for Man Utd but the premier league; I am sick and tired of us playing 2nd fiddle to Spain when it comes to the great players. Look at how the rumours of Hazard to Real are gathering pace, Coutinho to Barca, Cotouir (sp?) to Real, de Gea to Real, Walker to Barca, and so on and so forth.... it's time we got the great players in Spain at their peak too!
Show some respect. Valencia had a great team, a better team than Atletico currently have.
Show some respect. Valencia had a great team, a better team than Atletico currently have.
Yeah I didn't mean that as a diss on Valencia, just saying it was a different time before the big two were stable freakish clubs who just get the best players like they are again now.
I like how Walker sneaked into this paragraph.
Uhm, no, no they didn'tShow some respect. Valencia had a great team, a better team than Atletico currently have.
Also i don't even know where to begin with @LouisDanGaal post. Pretty much everything he wrote is wrong in one way or another
thank you kindly for your response sir
There is no way to measure someones potential and I feel it has too much emphasis on it. Hype is justified here for the marketing purposes of Pogba. Kroos from a young age was winning leagues, champions leagues, world cups etc and is nowhere near the marketing appeal despite being a better footballer. Pogba came with the rep that he is one of the worlds best in whatever position he is supposed to hold down. I still think he is good, just not the star that is claimed. many pros agree. Pogba has shown he needs his hand held by better and smarter players, thus cannot be the lead man despite his teams successes. He has benefited heavily from the side he played in but of course most good players play in good teams. I do feel he needs the starts to align more than most though.
Pogba played in a Euro final, which I am sure you meant and his overall tournament was pretty poor.
Neymar was near enough breaking scoring records in Brazil and was destined to be the next challenger to Messi and Ronaldo. I actually wanted him at United from the beginning as I genuinely believed he would be the next R9. He also showed he could be the reliable talisman for both club and country from a young age too.
Real Madrid had won the league the off season Crespo joined, won the champions league the season before that and signed Ronaldo for 45 million. I see little difference. Valencia had an excellent side, as did Depor. Milan went on to build one of the best European sides of all time. They won in 03 (off season Crespo joined) final in 05 (Crespo scored) and won again in 07. again I'm not sure why you believe they sold all their best players but k.
Ballack and Shev. sure they were 30, I'll grant that. They were bigger players in football though. I thought the original post were that they weren't that big deals. I felt signing Shevchenko was incredible. Ballack had rumoured interest from Man Utd, Real Madrid, Inter and AC Milan but chose Chelsea too. The fees don't compare though so granted, the Pogba fee is massive.
Maybe you were too young to remember but when Veron played in Serie A, it had arguably the best players in the continent, some of the strongest teams and biggest transfers. Veron still managed to shine, unlike Serie A today, where anyone outside of Juve.....well you don't need Dzeko to tell you there is a dearth of world class talent now.
God bless
Ever since Moyes we've been linked with this galactico and that galactico. Totally insane to believe a shred of this. We have bigger concerns than needing Neymar.
Meaning?
Number 10 will be free.
7 is also available & likely only one of this type of signings would happen.Number 10 will be free.
Shirt can't be given, has to be earned.
I don't argue, just pointing out that Ronaldo didn't earn it when he first signed for us. He just grew into it. How to spot the big character & talent befitting it, IDK.
Mourinho seems to dismiss possible Neymar signing already. Thread seems to be dead unless Chelsea rumor is true
http://www.goal.com/en/news/11/tran...4136662/signing-neymar-is-impossible-mourinho
"Neymar will be the great player of Barcelona after Messi. I think it [signing Neymar] is like trying to break into a safe. Impossible." Said Mourinho
I am skeptical that any United fan ever took it credibly that they had a shot at Neymar, for now at least. Check back in 2 or 3 seasons
Neymar would not be made to 'earn' any fecking shirt number if he came here, and rightly so, with him being better than every other player here and all that.
Sounds like he's speaking from experience
Now you mentioned it, it seems to be the case. And seems like Messi would be on the move
Somebody needs to take Jose to one side and point out to him that breaking into a safe is actually very possible.
if Messi were to move there would be a riot over all of CatalunyaNow you mentioned it, it seems to be the case. And seems like Messi would be on the move
Interesting that allegedly Neymars buyout clause increases during the length of the contract. That's some paperwork from whoever drew that up.
Anyway now Jose has said its absurd can we just lock and bury this thread please? Its not even smoke and mirrors, it simply is not happening.
Anyway now Jose has said its absurd can we just lock and bury this thread please? Its not even smoke and mirrors, it simply is not happening.
Ah feck - and here I was completely convinced we were signing Neymar. I've been bamboozled once again.
saw this on twitter
Amazing stats
Amazing stats
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