You’re gonna struggle to convince this board that he was awful in that World Cup considering every single Manchester United fan on the planet wanted to sign him after it and were devastated when he ended up going to Barcelona. He was brilliant in that World Cup, stop talking out of your arse.
Neymar vs Ronaldinho: Who was the better player?
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You’re gonna struggle to convince this board that he was awful in that World Cup considering every single Manchester United fan on the planet wanted to sign him after it and were devastated when he ended up going to Barcelona. He was brilliant in that World Cup, stop talking out of your arse.
I mean prime Ronaldinho did actually play with Messi. And they complemented each other very well.
2006 with Messi emerging and Ronaldinho still world class was pure filth.
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It's not close. Ronaldinho exists in that legendary Brazilian tier alongside Pele, Zico, Garrincha, Ronaldo, Romario etc. Neymar does not.
He had far more talent and had he played in the stat padding modern era would have an equal rate of goals for Brazil, even without being an outright goalscorer. Their club careers are more spotted due to various reasons but Ronaldinho again shone more brightly.
The simple summary is that Neymar rarely stood out when he played at the top level, Ronaldinho always did.
He had far more talent and had he played in the stat padding modern era would have an equal rate of goals for Brazil, even without being an outright goalscorer. Their club careers are more spotted due to various reasons but Ronaldinho again shone more brightly.
The simple summary is that Neymar rarely stood out when he played at the top level, Ronaldinho always did.
Ronaldinho took the world by storm. Neymar never had a similar impact but he's consistently hit very high G+A and won treble with Barca. Still its Ronaldinho for me.
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What is it posters think the poll is supposed to be telling them? It’s simply saying that 90% of people think one player was better than the other, absolutely nothing about how “close” it is.
"Honey, do you want burgers or pizza tonight?"
"Burgers"
"Oh, so I guess you HATE pizza now then? You're such a bastard!"
A really tough question. They were both world class players and some of the finest technical and skillful players we have been blessed with in the 00s.
I've given Neymar the slight edge because I think he just had that bit more oomph in his game, his performances for Brazil and that 14-15 season.
I've given Neymar the slight edge because I think he just had that bit more oomph in his game, his performances for Brazil and that 14-15 season.
I loved Ronaldinho to watch more than anyone but I'd say Neymar was better, he just doesn't have a WC, and didn't win a Ballon D'or cause he was competing with peak Messi. Neymar from 2014-17 was outrageous to watch himself, and had a few great spells PSG of being a showman too. He was actually probably the best player to watch since Ronaldinho himself, bar Messi depending on your preference.
Not really. To begin with, Messi was far from his prime version back then. For another, they rarely played particularly well at the same time. Messi's rise and Dinho's fall went hand in hand throughout the 06/07 season. The better Messi got, and the more Barcelona played through Messi, the worse Dinho played. And again, this was a version of Messi that stuck to the right wing and was ok waiting for his moments, not the version who fought a manager over it. By the end of 06/07 Messi was clearly the better player, the team's future, and Dinho looked no different than Ibra or Griezmann would years later
A bit overexaggerated, perhaps, but absolutely under no circumstances was he brilliant in the World Cup 2002. That is also a massive overexaggeration. Most fans I know and myself wanted him before the World Cup, and his performances there had very little meaning for our interest in him.
If we're talking about performances for Brazil, then Neymar did much more for them than Ronaldinho, just not enough to carry them alone. The Brazil 2002 team was arguably one of the best national teams of all time, and would likely win it without Ronaldinho. He could have easily ruined it for his team mates too after getting sent off in the quarter finals againt England.
this sums up the present day everywhere!And in the house next door:
"Honey, do you want burgers or pizza tonight?"
"Not only is the answer burgers, but pizza wouldn't even make my top 100 dishes!"
I think Dinho made everyone fall in love with the game again and he did it at the highest level across all competitions. He single handedly toyed with entire Madrid and the powerful Chelsea teams. In their peak there is no comparison Dinho would eat 10 Neymar's for breakfast. Neymar had talent but he was more $$ minded than accolades and achievements ( at least how it came across to me).
… no, no it isn’t. It’s one of the weaker winners of the competition, and the weakest of all the Brazilian World Cup winners. Don’t be fooled by a bunch of names.
2002 Brazil team almost failed to qualify for the world cup and needed a win in the last game against Venezuela. Ronaldo gave them the x factor needed as he didn't play a single qualifier if I recall correctly.
I don't want to be offensive, but saying that makes it looks like you didn't watch Ronaldinho. He was much worse than Neymar in this regard. He had a penchant for ruining great counters by holding the ball too much or even dribbling backwards. Watching 2003-2006 Barcelona games recently, it was funny to see how many times that Spanish narrator, who I think is one of the most famous over there, was frustrated with him.
Neymar didn't just give away a goal chance for showboating. He normally did that in neutral situations, looking for yellows or reds for opposing players(it was a dumb decision in the long run though).
Their sheer dribbling and passing techniques were similar, but Neymar was more consistent, even taking only Ronaldinho's prime in account. The latter was also better at linking with other players(yes, Barcelona was much more oriented to that in Neymar's period, but even for Brazil and PSG that is true). Ronaldinho had a better first touch, one touch passes and was much stronger shielding the ball and playing with his back to the goal; Neymar had better offensive instincts(on and off the ball) and was a better finisher(especially when younger; Neymar had a R9-like coolness in front of the keeper when 18-22 years old).
Other thing that has been overlooked is that Neymar had a much stronger mentality on the field. His childish hotheadedness can obfuscate a fiery desiree and technical leadership(although sometimes tempestuous), even in adversities. Ronaldinho was much easier to take out of the game against competent marking.
Other thing that has been overlooked is that Neymar had a much stronger mentality on the field. His childish hotheadedness can obfuscate a fiery desiree and technical leadership(although sometimes tempestuous), even in adversities. Ronaldinho was much easier to take out of the game against competent marking.
I think the 1970 Brazil was better, but can't say as I never watched them. Going by the names, then it is very likely
If I remember right, Brazil in 2002 is still to this day the only national team that has won all their matches in a World Cup, and they did it dominantly too with Ronaldo as their talisman.Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, Cafu were all sensational. Ronaldinho was good too, just not brilliant. They probably weren't the best national team to win the cup, but being the worst of the Brazilian squads would still be one of the best, given the other national teams who have won it.
My view is that it's hard to define how good they were. They were comfortably the best team at the World Cup, yet others bombed and therefore it's impossible to say how good they were.
Comparing them to the 1994 team is interesting. 2002 has more world-class players, but also weaker players at CB and CM.
Rivaldo was the star of the side, but Ronaldo's story and amount of goals was one of the ultimate comeback stories and obviously him being the bigger name, plus how Rivaldo's name has been tainted by his antics, the story of that team and that World Cup is being steadily re-worked and that will probably be exacerbated further still in years to come as Rivaldo's name is steadily removed from the timeline.I think the 1970 Brazil was better, but can't say as I never watched them. Going by the names, then it is very likely
Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, Cafu were all sensational. Ronaldinho was good too, just not brilliant. They probably weren't the best national team to win the cup, but being the worst of the Brazilian squads would still be one of the best, given the other national teams who have won it.
As far as Brazil sides go, it is universally agreed that it's either '70 or '58 as top 1 and 2 and then there's a toss up at the bottom with '62 nestled in third:
1. 1970
2. 1958
3. 1962
4. 1994
5. 2002
For me, but either way, the highest '02 gets is 4th over '94. The 2002 is the most untested and although they scored a lot, it was against weaker opposition than the others and that makes them harder to gauge. 1994 were very staid and dull for a Brazil team, but they were absolutely rock solid and on the other end, they converted with aplomb. They are also more battle-hardened, coming up against Holland and Italy, in the KO rounds. Two teams that were looking the part themselves, especially Italy.
As @Gio has said above, the '02 is the most untested. They had more names who are known to be greats in their position, but also more weaknesses. The '94 team was just really solid with no area of the pitch to hone in on and exploit. For me, they beat the '02 team, but even if we swing it the other way, they're both "only" contesting for bottom places.
Obviously, I'm not saying any of the above to slight them; the first two teams on the list are always in the discussion for greatest WC winners of all time, so it's no slight on them. '62 is a side that would probably be the highest of all with a fit Pele entering his peak years and Garrincha playing out of skin, but even without Pele, Garrincha's performance in that tournament eclipses anything from the sides below.
Who you beat and how you beat them always adds weight in these discussions and unfortunately for '02, they had the weakest opponents and the most underwhelming performances relatively. That World Cup was essentially euphoria that Ronaldo had returned, and it made it a Disney story; it's probably the most romantic of the WC wins in terms of personal triumph.
Incidentally, I'm not sure '02 is rated above '82, but of course, that's got a lot of subjective criteria to it.
Says anyone who wants to be exactly what they claim they don't want to.
I regularly watched Ronaldinho since his debut at PSG, so I can safely say that I saw play him quite a bit.
Every great dribbler has/had a penchant for hogging the ball. Garrincha, Maradona, Messi, Ronaldo (the real one), etc were no different. That's still the quickest way to get to the opposing goal, unlock a defense and create a chance for either themselves or their teammates. So there's always the risk that they get carried away, decide to dribble one player too many and lose the ball. Search long enough and you'll find similar situations for any of the players I've mentioned. I don't hold it against this kind of players, even if it can be sometimes frustrating.
A Messi, an R9, a Maradona didn't try a rainbow flick to draw a foul or wow the crowd and then roll 25 times on the floor crying.
Ronaldinho only had a two (or was it three?) year peak, and during that period he was obviously better than Neymar ever was. However outside that period Neymar was clearly better.
So the question over which is better depends entirely on how much you weight peak vs career.
So the question over which is better depends entirely on how much you weight peak vs career.
This is what’s so strange for me about the hatred for Neymar. All of those players you mentioned are stocky, robust and had dense muscle mass where you want dribblers to have it; they got smashed a lot, but they were built to take it, so to speak. The same weight of challenge on the waif Neymar was for most of his peak years, would send him flying and often injured him. The guy got nailed a lot for his impudence and a number of times was taken out of games completely in this manner. He’s going to have a propensity to jump for cover more often than those guys for obvious reasons.
I mean look at this:
Back breaker for attempting to control a ball. Was said that a few cm over and the guy could’ve been paralysed. None of the others, not even Maradona, received tiger knees to the back.
Neymar’s diving was mostly self-preservation after frequently being taken out for months at a time.
Well, the argument for Ronaldinho seems to be not just that (peak v peak) but also that he has a couple of things Neymar doesn't, namely a World Cup winners medal and a Ballon D'Or. But in both cases it's a bit unfair because circumstances played a part. As others have pointed out, Ronaldinho was part of an absurdly stacked team in 2002, the likes of which Neymar has never had the good fortune to play for at international level.
Also, with the Ballon D'Or, I'm sure Neymar would have one if not for Messi and Ronaldo, whom he finished directly behind in the voting twice, in 2015 and 2017.
those Brazil teams were good enough to beat both Belgium and Croatia. they lost because it's football and games simply go that way sometimes, not because they weren't good enough.
Being a flair player implies that you're going to be fouled more than often. That's a fact of football. Either by malice, like the criminal who broke Neymar's back, or simply because the opponent can't keep up.
If you chose to double down on it and deliberately try to embarrass the defender to please the crowd, one of them is definitely going to take you out. He got away with it Brazil, but not in Europe or anywhere else. When you're built like a twig and injury prone, you might think about that.
Maradona got his left ankle torn to pieces and no one thought that he was coming back. Especially with the state of sports medicine at the time. Instead of diving, he developped the habit of instinctively jumping once he got past an opponent fearing that he'd smashed from behind. Him and Messi notoriously built up their lower body muscles in their younger years to sustain the punishment they were receiving on the pitch.
Neymar has been fouled an awful lot, but he was a diver and not only for self-preservation. That and his showboating is what made him very unlikeable to the eyes of many, myself included.
But I will never question Neymar's talent or hate him. I personally saw him at first as a future Ballon d'Or winner, Ronaldinho's heir and Messi's successor. Had he made other career choices, he'd maybe have had the legacy his talent deserved.
I voted for Neymar despite a strong dislike of him as a person. I think Ronaldinho's peak from ~2004-06 was magical, a complete wide attacking mid, delivering both goals and assists with great creativity. But I think Neymar is as complete a winger/attacking-mid, able to score (right foot, left foot, inside the box, outside) and set-up teammates, and he was at his best for longer.
I wish he was a completely different personality on and off the field. I wish he had cut out the habit of dropping and asking for passes around midfield only to shield the ball from his marker and get kicked. I wish he'd made decisions that put sporting success above money. He's sort of a terrible example for aspiring players. But he had a ton of talent and could create a lot of chances for the teams he played for.
I wish he was a completely different personality on and off the field. I wish he had cut out the habit of dropping and asking for passes around midfield only to shield the ball from his marker and get kicked. I wish he'd made decisions that put sporting success above money. He's sort of a terrible example for aspiring players. But he had a ton of talent and could create a lot of chances for the teams he played for.
You may not like it, but Neymar at his best was a very good cog in a team with bigger stars than him. When he was expected to be the leading man on the big stage he never really did it (PSG, Brazil).
Not sure what your point is. Your chances of winning the World Cup are greatly increased when you have four of the greatest players of all time as your teammates.
If the French league was as bad some make it out to be, it wouldn't be getting plundered left, right, and centre for talent from the top leagues. Players who are often expected to perform well within a half-season/season of arriving. I've watched it a good amount since 2018/19 and it's exactly as the boring, common-sense take would suggest: a level below the ones above it, but more so in many little details not being right to truly compete with them in Europe rather than their being a gaping chasm between them because the whole setup is fundamentally lacking.The French football system is a very strong one, and that's reflected in the transfer market and their national team.
Absolutely, agree 100%. There is a conveyor belt of top young talent there that they seem to produce non-stop.
You’ve basically just said ‘yeah, yeah but’ and blamed Neymar for the kind of treatment that I would go as far as to say is unparalleled as outside of the Schumacher incident, you’re going to be hard-pressed to find a genuine superstar who has been taken out with an upper body assault so casually applied. Maradona is the most fouled player in history and you’re mentioning the Bilbao incident, but at least that was to an ankle. It was an awful hatchet job, which changed Maradona's mentality forever... yet you don't seem to see the irony in pointing that out, as it's all the hatchet jobs Neymar had to put up with that changed his approach and outlook, too.
The showboating point is absolutely nonsense, do you know why? Because other players were and are celebrated to this day for their skills and trickery, not hated for it. Rivelino, Maradona, Djalminha, Ronaldo, Okocha, Ronaldinho, C.Ronaldo (in his early United years) to name the most famous, chronologically before Neymar came along. People would watch them googly-eyed, and it's not a coincidence that the majority are from a long line of Brazilian heritage. Neymar could be said to be taking on a torch that had burned for years, so no, it is not the showboating you or anyone else didn't like, unless you also hated these players as well.
Given, factually, how many times he was put out for months at a time by terrible, mostly illegal plays, of course it becomes a case of self-preservation and a seeking of protection from referees over purely looking to take advantage by cheating - if the fouls didn't occur in the first place, Neymar more often than not had beaten his man and would be on to the next play in sequence, just like most of the aforementioned above.
The problem for me with most Neymar discussions is posters can't even be honest with themselves and don't try and be objective when discussing him. I don't know if that's a conscious effort, but it's easy to see why he rarely gets the credit due for his ability, if nothing else.
The only bigger star in Barcelona was Messi. And any Barca fan will tell you that Neymar wasn't just a cog in that team.
The only season PSG reached the CL final, Neymar was their best player by a distance.
Neymar edges it for me. Both didn't reach the career heights they could have though imo - Neymar's career is quite forgettable from his PSG move onwards and Dinho's peak was too short lived. Very close but I just think Neymar is playing at a time when the game is more demanding and difficult.
Actually, Neymar did when he was playing for Barcelona (I voted Ronaldinho and don’t think it’s that close), but he pursued money instead of becoming a legend, went to a rubbish league where he was a 13 year old against 11 year olds, and that’s that really.
Kinda like how for all his talent Mbappe’s club career has only really just begun.
I dont feel he did. When people rate the best they've seen, Ronaldinho is almost on the list, Neymar isnt.
It's Ronaldinho. He's a lot more likeable which maybe tips it more I'm his favour. I'll never forget his performance in El Clasico when the Madrid fans clapped him off. In terms of pure greatness, Ronaldinho easily.
As a player, I still think it's Ronaldinho but I find it hard to judge Neymar because he was always the second man (maybe lower) for Barca. He literally played in the perfect team for years, to which he contributed tbf.
As a player, I still think it's Ronaldinho but I find it hard to judge Neymar because he was always the second man (maybe lower) for Barca. He literally played in the perfect team for years, to which he contributed tbf.
Meh, it was a LK tiger knee at best.
I’d say Ronaldinho was the best player I’ve ever seen. Better than Messi and Ronaldo.
However it only lasted a few years rather than the longevity of the other two.
However it only lasted a few years rather than the longevity of the other two.