Best players of all time? Where you placing him there? Top 20? Top 30?
Neymar vs Ronaldinho: Who was the better player?
- Thread starter Fortitude
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Best players of all time? Where you placing him there? Top 20? Top 30?
He didn’t perform well because he played in failing sides with bad managers. No one performed well.
And what exactly does he "annihilate" him in? Dribbles? Assists? Goals? I'll give you a hint; in absolutely nothing does he annihilate him in.
Neymar never delivered? Are we talking about the guy who almost single handedly carried Barca against PSG in CL in maybe one of the greatest comebacks in history? The same Neymar who was part of the world's best attacking trio the world has ever seen and is one of the greatest dribblers of all time? Oh yeah, he never delivered.. the shit some people say on this forum. Is it really that challenging to have a reasonable opinion without overdoing it every single time?
Neymar has had a better career.
Ronaldinho was a better player in his prime (which only lasted about three seasons.)
Ronaldinho was a better player in his prime (which only lasted about three seasons.)
Neymar gets appreciated less because he did his stuff in the shadow of Messi, supported by Suarez and Iniesta.
Meanwhile Ronaldinho was the fulcrum of his Barcelona side and a mythology had been built around him, as his arrival coincided with Barcelona becoming a major force again.
I think the PSG games are a good case in point. Neymar made all the difference in epic fashion and people still talked about Messi. it's not wrong that he'd never get proper credit while playing with him.
Meanwhile Ronaldinho was the fulcrum of his Barcelona side and a mythology had been built around him, as his arrival coincided with Barcelona becoming a major force again.
I think the PSG games are a good case in point. Neymar made all the difference in epic fashion and people still talked about Messi. it's not wrong that he'd never get proper credit while playing with him.
feck me, it was one CL knock out game and in the next round he was fecking shite as they got absolutely smashed by Juve.
I'm actually surprised some of you still don't get it. make no mistake, Neymar is a diving bitch and naturally gets a lot of hate for that, but even Ronaldinho, as good as he was, wouldn't be as half as appreciated if he was at PSG at his peak, winning meaningless titles without any challenge while getting injured all the time and playing about 15-20 games per season.
but Neymar chose that path by himself. once he left Barca it was CL or nothing. PSG can toy with Brest and Lorient, the simple fact is, nobody cares about that. no CL success with them, no World Cup trophy, no Copa, no individual awards... meaning, being part of that great MSN trio was pretty much it for him.
like I've said, the polls result doesn't mean Ronaldinho is 20 times better individually. it simply reflects how much people rate what Neymar was doing for the last 7 years or so.
but Neymar chose that path by himself. once he left Barca it was CL or nothing. PSG can toy with Brest and Lorient, the simple fact is, nobody cares about that. no CL success with them, no World Cup trophy, no Copa, no individual awards... meaning, being part of that great MSN trio was pretty much it for him.
like I've said, the polls result doesn't mean Ronaldinho is 20 times better individually. it simply reflects how much people rate what Neymar was doing for the last 7 years or so.
Exactly. We should only let teens who never saw Ronaldinho play, vote. They're the only objective ones on this debate.
What is your obsession with hating on him? Chill out a bit.
You can't appreciate one of the best dribblers ever and one of the most entertaining footballer for the last 10-15 years without shitting on him at the same time?
Messi, Suarez and Iniesta was also on the pitch for that game. Maybe you want to let us know how shit they were too?
Oh there’s no question his career choice to chase the money was a horrendous one for his legacy.
It ultimately means that his peak were the seasons he spent at Barcelona, and of that front 3, many people consider him the third best.
Like Ronaldinho, his time at Barca and his honours list with Brazil is what people consider, so I don’t consider this longevity thing when comparing the two. Ronaldinho ultimately played more games in a top league.
I don’t hate Neymar one bit, brilliant player, great entertainment.
Massive shame he chose money ahead of a special career.
The comparison for Brazil is interesting, wonder how brazilians see it. On the one hand Dinho won a WC, Neymar didn't, but on the other hand Dinho barely made himself available for Brazil, on an individual level his performances at the 2002 WC were nowhere near Neymar's in 2022(or the 2021 CA) and the only other tournaments he took part in are a Copa as a 19 year old backup who barely saw the pitch and a WC in which all the world expected him to make his case as an ATG and he was pretty fecking terrible. Meanwhile Ney has 3 WC, 3 Copas and the Rio Olympics under his belt, suffered a near career threeatening injury in the home WC, and may have compromised his body permanently to recover in time for Russia. Of the Copas he skipped, two were to injury and one to the Olympics
So Neymar was generally much more available, did more for Brazil and his level of performance was generally higher. But Dinho won the WC
So Neymar was generally much more available, did more for Brazil and his level of performance was generally higher. But Dinho won the WC
Fans also tend be very fond of their one shining light when everyone else is a bit shite or not close to that level, hence it wouldn’t surprise me at all to find Barca find rating Ronaldinho so much higher and vice versa with Brazil fans.
MSN was about Messi first and foremost. That’s why Neymar moved because he didn’t want to be 2nd or 3rd fiddle.
By comparison Messi himself has credited Ronaldinho with the change at Barca that turned them into a winning machine.
Neymar moved to PSG for the biggest ever transfer fee to be top dog and lead their project and they won the square root of feck all of any importance.
Ultimately he failed to deliver on his promise, regardless of individual moments which is why PSG fecked him off to Saudi.
Likewise for Brazil Ronaldinho lifted the WC, Neymar never has despite being the poster boy for the last generation of Brazilian national team.
Individually Ronaldinho has won the ballon door. Neymar n’est pas. Ronaldinhos boots and balls are all golden, Ney has a collection of mostly Bronze balls to show for his exploits.
I’m sorry I seem to have triggered or offended you by casting doubt on your boyfriend, but in my opinion (and that’s all this is ultimately) Ronaldinho is a far superior player, which I feel is backed up by their honours lists. I don’t see what is ‘overdone’ about that.
Career trajectory has a lot to do with it, their careers are almost polar opposites.
I think what goes against Neymar most is that decision to leave Barcelona for PSG, before he really peaked. It was viewed as taking the money and an easier lifestyle to play the game against much weaker opposition under less pressure. Add in his injury records and taking holidays every year for his sisters birthday. He basically became semi retired in a lower tier league at that point to a large cohort of football fans. Nobody seriously watches Ligue 1 and still nobody would really watch it just because he's there, so most people only saw him in the CL. He's more popular amongst FIFA players than older fans because of it.
I read that the Ligue 1 viewership dropped by 50% from 08 -2020. A large part of that is viewed as being down to the lack of competition and dominantion by PSG.
The only comparison is that they're both Brazilian. It's not even a contest.
Ronaldinho. Easily.
Neymar was very good but Ronaldinho was sensational
Neymar was very good but Ronaldinho was sensational
As has already been said, it very much depends how you classify "best". If it is a career and overall body of work, the answer is Neymar. If it is who was the best at the peak of their powers, it is Ronaldinho.
For Brazil
Ronaldinho - Caps 97 / Goals 33
Neymar - Caps 128 / Goals 79
Neymar is incredibly underrated based on being in the shadow of Messi but he was incredibly effective for both clubs and country. I voted Ronaldinho btw as I went down the "who was best at the peak of their powers" and Ronaldinho is in the best 5 players ever using that stat
For Brazil
Ronaldinho - Caps 97 / Goals 33
Neymar - Caps 128 / Goals 79
Neymar is incredibly underrated based on being in the shadow of Messi but he was incredibly effective for both clubs and country. I voted Ronaldinho btw as I went down the "who was best at the peak of their powers" and Ronaldinho is in the best 5 players ever using that stat
Every single paragraph in that post is either incorrect, a terrible argument or made up with the exception of the first one. Of course MSN was Messi first and foremost. Shocking, considering he is the best football player of all time with 8 Ballon d'Or.
Barcelona becoming a winning machine has nothing to do with two of the best midfielders of all time breaking through in Xavi and Iniesta, along with Messi, only for Busquets to break through a few years later? Yeah, it was all Ronaldinho. Ffs
A team isn't a one man show, you know. You can't magically win one of the best trophies in the world because of one player, and then fault him for not winning it. Messi lost the World Cup against Germany in the final, does that make him a lesser player? Granted he did make up for it against France, but only Martinez' save saved his ass.
Ronaldinho played for a much better Brazil. Don't be ridiculous. That World Cup, Ronaldinho was awful, so that's a weak argument. The Copa America he won, he was 19 and played a whopping 90 minutes during the entire tournament, and not a second in the final.
When comparing player ability (which is what this is), trophies aren't that relevant. I also share the opinion that Ronaldinho was a better player, but the idea on here that the gap is so enormous is ridiculous. Ability wise and natural talent, they are pretty similar. Ronaldinho has done nothing on the pitch that Neymar hasn't.
If Neymar didn't have Messi and Ronaldo around him, he would quite easily have won Ballon d'Or. Ronaldinho would not have won his if he played in the same time, no matter how good he was.
Funny that you posted the above, and then followed it up with the below. Not overdoing it are we?!
I’m not interested in a sparring match. I think it’s pathetic how these types of ‘which player is the best’ (especially Ronaldo/messi) get so heated and personal. I was posed a question by the OP, I gave my opinion and we move on. You disagree, that’s fine but you don’t need to wade in all guns blazing trying to prove you are the big I am (which is the tone you’re giving off) Nobody cares mate, least of all me. Have a great day.Every single paragraph in that post is either incorrect, a terrible argument or made up with the exception of the first one. Of course MSN was Messi first and foremost. Shocking, considering he is the best football player of all time with 8 Ballon d'Or.
Barcelona becoming a winning machine has nothing to do with two of the best midfielders of all time breaking through in Xavi and Iniesta, along with Messi, only for Busquets to break through a few years later? Yeah, it was all Ronaldinho. Ffs
A team isn't a one man show, you know. You can't magically win one of the best trophies in the world because of one player, and then fault him for not winning it. Messi lost the World Cup against Germany in the final, does that make him a lesser player? Granted he did make up for it against France, but only Martinez' save saved his ass.
Ronaldinho played for a much better Brazil. Don't be ridiculous. That World Cup, Ronaldinho was awful, so that's a weak argument. The Copa America he won, he was 19 and played a whopping 90 minutes during the entire tournament, and not a second in the final.
When comparing player ability (which is what this is), trophies aren't that relevant. I also share the opinion that Ronaldinho was a better player, but the idea on here that the gap is so enormous is ridiculous. Ability wise and natural talent, they are pretty similar. Ronaldinho has done nothing on the pitch that Neymar hasn't.
If Neymar didn't have Messi and Ronaldo around him, he would quite easily have won Ballon d'Or. Ronaldinho would not have won his if he played in the same time, no matter how good he was.
Yep. I think nowadays (post Messi/Ronaldo) there is a tendency to put a lot of weight on statistics, where Neymar perhaps looks better. But anyone who watched Ronaldinho play at Barcelona and saw how he transformed the club, in a league way more competitive than it is now, knows the answer. What he did there was comparable to Maradona at Napoli.
Well that combination of opinion makes no sense to me. I like Neymar's game and I'm also one of the people that thinks that the modern game is devoid of flair and artistry. That's the only logical stance.
Aye it's not an area I'd separate them on. Frankly neither fulfilled their potential for Brazil despite having creditable careers. Neymar unluckier in his 3 World Cups all being marred by injury because there's a huge portfolio of work leading Brazil outside of that. He was frustratingly poor at key moments in 2018, but he was clearly unfit. On the other side, Ronaldinho really should have tore it up at the 2006 World Cup to make good on his talent. In Europe he'd been taking the best defenders to the cleaners almost routinely at that point.
Although he clearly wasn't as influential as Rivaldo and Ronaldo, he still had a good tournament in 2002. He did what Neymar did at Barcelona in understanding his supporting and creative role within an outstanding trio.
But this is mostly BS though. I watched him for PSG and he was incredible, week in week out, when he was fit. Say what you want about the standard of the league but a lot of people only started watching it when Messi went to PSG and they realised it's not as much of a cakewalk as advertised. Of course you are correct that going there will be held against him, but having actually watched thim play there, I think such commentary is simplistic and lazy.
He did also help PSG get further in the CL than they've ever gotten, but because they lost by a hair in the final to an absolute machine of a Bayern team, none of that matters. It's ridiculous.
Neymar's real issue is the fact that he is a contemporary of Messi and Ronaldo. This is the real reason why the poll is 90% in favour of Ronaldinho. In isolation, if you actually examine them properly, it is close between them.
Ronaldinho impacted a match in the same way Messi/Maradona did. He was that player the whole game revolved around as soon. When he had the ball at his feet, unstoppable. I feel the same privilege having watched him play, as I feel about Zidane, R9, CR7 and Messi.
Thats always going to play a part. Anyone who was WC in the same time as Messi and Ronaldo is going to get overlooked. Rooney suffers from the same thing, Suarez, a few others too.
One was the best diver I have ever seen and the other scored the best fluke of a goal I have ever seen.
A pair of twats!
A pair of twats!
Exactly. Ronaldinho had a couple of years at Barca where he really hit the heights. Outside of that, he was inconsistent though sometimes brilliant at PSG, and by the time he got to Milan, he was already fat and mostly done. That would contrast terribly with a Messi and Ronaldo scoring hundreds of brilliant goals season in, season out for 15 years, had they existed during Ronaldinho's time.
I give Dinho the nod because I think peak for peak, he was slightly better than Neymar, and that matters. But Neymar was elite for longer.
Nostalgia plays a part as well.
I'll always rate Michael Owen more than other United fans. Some people see Owen as the guy who came to United for a bit and did "alright" - i remember him as the player who tore through the Argentinian defence in 1998 and scored a cracker. I remember the joy, my heart pounding as a teenager seeing that goal go in.
Similarly with Ronaldinho. He was so exciting to watch, when I think about him, i remember the joy i experienced watching him - not the stats.
There were plenty of top players who played at the same time as Maradona and Pele, who don't get the same level of attention and recognition. Neymar isn't just a victim of the Messi v Ronaldo era. He doesn't get enough recognition for his ability because of the league he was playing in for most of what should have been his peak and while there he barely played 30 games a season.
He moved to a league, that garners very little international interest. Viewership of the league has dropped dramatically over the years, this is largely attributed to the lack of competition and PSG's dominance. So it doesn't really matter if Neymar tears it up against Lorient in front of 22,000 fans in the stadium, the majority of global football fans just aren't interested in that game. If he was doing it for Barca against Sociedad, he'd have a wider audience and would get more acclaim. People watched Barcelona and La Liga for Ronaldinho, nowhere near as many people tuned in to watch PSG just because of Neymar.
Serie A suffered a similar decline in viewership when Juve won 9 titles in a row or whatever it was, the perceived lack of competition reduced the outside interest in the league. The arrival of Ronaldo and the end of Juve’s domestic dominance saw viewership increase.
There may not be lot between them as players, I've said earlier it's personal preference in these types of debates. Ronaldinho will have a higher acclaim amongst an older audience because he didn't spend his peak taking the piss in a shite league against mediocre teams, he spent his peak in a top league, winning top trophies and had exposure to a much bigger audience.
What
no. No no no no... Interesting difference is Neymar went to play with Messi still young, so while he was forced to adapt his game to Messi, he was also still in a developing phase as a player. This made him a more versatile and complete player, very adaptable, the kind you could put on any team next to any player and still perform like a star
For Dinho on the other hand the 2002 WC represents pretty much the only time he had to adapt to better teammates, and if you take his prime version, that's a player that's most likely incompatible with Messi, in a similar way as Ibra or Griezmann
I don't know, it would take too much energy to draw up such a list, but Neymar is one of the most naturally gifted players I've ever seen. I'd say since Ronaldo Nazario, only Messi has been clearly more naturally gifted than him.
This is what i thought as well.
To me they are both equal/similar in terms of skill level/ball sense/vision etc.
What made Ronaldinho better for me, is that he "carried" a team to a big prize (UCL), playing at an almost unstoppable level for most matches during the same period. Neymar didn't have that almost unstoppable period winning a big prize, once he left MSN.
While one can argue than Ronaldinho had Eto, one can also argue that Neymar had Mbappe.
The edge Neymar has over Ronaldinho is that he is a top player for a longer period of time. But that carry job / top level that Ronaldinho did outweighs the Neymar longevity for me
Disagree strongly with this
, NO.the funny thing is, I actually remember my friend saying Davids was their most important player when they hit the bottom. it was about 20 years ago.
Ronaldinho, but it's pretty close and Neymar doesn't get enough credit for his perfermances while at his peak. That said, his choice of going to PSG was the wrong one and pretty much any other top club would probably lift his legacy. He also generally played at a higher level for Brazil, but partly due to injuries/luck didn't go all the way.
They are not so far apart and this is coming from someone who absolutely enjoyed Ronaldinho and in subjective "which player you wish you saw live" list goes at the very top. Actually, I saw him at San Siro while playing for Milan, but he was already space jammed by that point.
They are not so far apart and this is coming from someone who absolutely enjoyed Ronaldinho and in subjective "which player you wish you saw live" list goes at the very top. Actually, I saw him at San Siro while playing for Milan, but he was already space jammed by that point.
The problem with this is that stat watchers or those too young, fail to understand the nuance of realistic goal targets before the boom of the Messi and Ronaldo era.
If a wide player or attacking midfielder could get you 15 goals or more back then, you were top top class. Those roles were far more focussed on creativity back then unlike now where wide forwards score as much as strikers.
Ronaldinho was unreal, he broke these expectations in his era. A player as creative as him still scoring 20+ goals was ridiculous.
Neymar is a super talent and honestly think I’d be here for the argument that he was the more talented player. The problem with Neymar is he never put all his tools together consistently to lead a team and dominate consistently. He has very good numbers but as far as impact he made he is moons away from Ronaldinho.
Neymar’s career is still a what if while Ronaldinho’s career was solidified, he achieved everything he needed too in his window.
If a wide player or attacking midfielder could get you 15 goals or more back then, you were top top class. Those roles were far more focussed on creativity back then unlike now where wide forwards score as much as strikers.
Ronaldinho was unreal, he broke these expectations in his era. A player as creative as him still scoring 20+ goals was ridiculous.
Neymar is a super talent and honestly think I’d be here for the argument that he was the more talented player. The problem with Neymar is he never put all his tools together consistently to lead a team and dominate consistently. He has very good numbers but as far as impact he made he is moons away from Ronaldinho.
Neymar’s career is still a what if while Ronaldinho’s career was solidified, he achieved everything he needed too in his window.
Not surprising. Barcelona were in the relegation zone in December. They sign Davids in January and go from that to 2nd, and are clearly the best team in the league. Thing is, Dinho was inconsistent in the first half of that season, but he caught fire by February and turned into the BPITW