A goal certainly changes the aims of both the sides.
Next Man Utd Manager Expected To Be Jose Mourinho Or David Moyes
- Thread starter Niall
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A goal certainly changes the aims of both the sides.
How would Scholes' disallowed goal change the aims of both sides?
No I thought you were that stupid.
The goal would have put Porto out of the tie because they were holding on and hoping to sneak a goal at the end, if Scholes' perfectly and obviously legitimate goal had been allowed they would have had to abandon that game-plan and actually open up a bit. This would have left them more vulnerable on the counter thus altering the tactical situation significantly.
Well you were wrong about that too. If Porto had held on a snuk a goal at the end (I don't think that was their plan by the way, you can't really make plans that specific, their plan was to play on the counter) then they would have taken the tie to extra time, that would hardly have been a dreadful result for them, and they wouldn't necessarily have abandoned it.
Who do you support Kiet?
Manchester United, but I try to be objective and realistic.
Course you can, Mourinho is renowned for doing just that. He plays a disciplined organised team for 70 -75mins, and then brings on more flair in an attempt to win the game in the final quarter.
Of course if a goal is forthcoming before that time from a counter attack then that is a welcome bonus, but the onus is usually on not conceding.
Mourinho is obviously a very good manager. Some may even say the best tactitian in the game. I was one of those people who harboured thoughts that if he was to replace Fergie, he'd repesct the traditions of our club, tone down the antics and play football the right way. However with his recent actions it becomes harder to imagine any way in which I would want him to be the most important person at the club.
Let's get this straight you made the argument that the game would have continued in the same fashion had utd's goal been allowed. I think that's absurd. It would have been 3-2 utd as opposed to 2-2 utd on agg in the second half. You may say that both of those scores would have seen us qualify but you'd be a fool to ignore the fact that one is much safer than the other.
If it had been 3-2 then utd would have been less nervy knowing a goal for Porto wouldn't have been the end of the game. We wouldn't have been so desperate to get a goal to make the fixture safe and Porto would have had to make something happen to win the game rather than relying on us to leave ourselves exposed when we attacked. There's no doubt that goal would have changed the tactical situation in the game markedly.
OK, lets say you can, if he was confident of doing that he'd have continued in the same manner, surely?
Yeah, there's a slight difference, but the situation was that they needed a goal to stay in the competition, and we needed to keep them out to go through, that would have been true with or without Scholes' goal, I don't see that either side's tactics would change significantly because of the difference. Of course, even if they did, if Porto switched to a more attacking style they might still have scored anyway.
What I'm getting at is that you can't just look at that goal that Scholes scored and say it would have knocked Porto out, it's unfair to Porto and it does a disservice to what they achieved.
Not just his recent actions though, there is a discernable pattern every time he loses a high profile game going back to his CL defeat to Liverpool early in his Chelsea career.
The higher the likelihood of him being open to criticism, the more bizarre, petulant and excessive the response.
Haha, remember when he went out to Liverpool on pens at Anfield. Liverpool clearly outplayed them but Jose saw a completely different game.
He's hilarious in defeat apart from when it gets nasty like eyegate.
He's hilarious in defeat apart from when it gets nasty like eyegate.
True. What are people's opinions on Carlo Ancelloti? an absolute gent, proven in europe and in the english game. would command respect from everyone in the dressing room and at the club.
He really did feck it up in that game, all Chelsea needed was a goal and they were basically though and they went out and shut up shop.
Two League titles in 11 years managing Juventus, Milan and Chelsea. No thank you.
I would have to agree with you there, goals change games no doubt about it. Scholes goal may have been allowed, but we could have gone on to score another 2 or Porto could have scored 2 additional goals and made it irrelevant anyway.
It is impossible to say how a goal affects a result, we have all watched enough football to appreciate that, but it is hard to deny that it was an incredible piece of good fortune for Porto at the time.
Its not that stupid actually.
Think about this one:
MU vs Barca - Champions league final.
Would you rather Messi to get a red in 10th minute of the match or United to score in the same moment?
id rather play 11 vs 10 for 80 minutes against Barca than to be 1-0 up.
At Juve he was succeeding Lippi and only had two years in charge. At chelsea most people would argue he was a huge success winning the double in his first year in charge. At Milan he won 2 European cups in 6 years. I don't think many managers have a comparable CV tbh. Who would you like to see Kiet?
Why do people think he will go to United anyway.
Here he indicated that his main choice is Chelsea
and if not them, do people really think he's going to turn down City's billions for us?!
Here he indicated that his main choice is Chelsea
and if not them, do people really think he's going to turn down City's billions for us?!
I agree, he fits City and what they need. He will get his customary £100m or so to spend and since they have no history or tradition to worry about, he can concentrate on taking them to the next level in the short term, which is his forte.
To follow SAF will be the greatest managerial challenge in the history of football. Yeah, he'd want that. Question is do we?
Looking at Wengers situation at Arsenal, I cant help but think he is the man to replace Fergie. Every summer he sells his best players yet still manages to have a good crack at the league and champions league. Its not his fault that Arsenal can not pay the top wages for him to be able to hold onto his best players. This is a problem he would face much less at United. He is outstanding at bringing youth through and has a great eye for talent. And for the first time ever many Arsenal fans want him out which was unthinkable some years ago so a move would not be as painful nowadays for them as in years past.
After Mourinhos antics the other day, you wonder is he too much of a bad sport to be our manager. Would he give youth a chance, Would be be gone in 3 years!!
After Mourinhos antics the other day, you wonder is he too much of a bad sport to be our manager. Would he give youth a chance, Would be be gone in 3 years!!
No thanks.
He'd rather swallow City's millions.
I'm sure of it, those who think Jose is coming here are in for a rude surprise imo.
I don't think he's coming here, but not due to him not wanting it. He'd be desperate to come.
I think given his current predicament United will become more and more attractive to him - even if he went to City and won the Champion's League, it wouldn't do much to refute the criticisms likely to be held against his legacy.
Right now he needs credibility and respect. He also needs to show he can go to a classy club, not reliant on a sugar daddy, and produce football that sits alongside Guardiola, Ferguson and Wenger's. Going to yet another club awash with money, and winning, isn't really going to tell us anything we didn't already know about him.
My opinion on this is as well or poorly founded as yours, neither of us are mind readers.
Winning the European Cup isn't that great a judge of a manager for me, a lot of that can come down to things that no manager can control. Ferguson could have never won the European Cup for us if Bayern Munich and Chelsea had hit shots 6 inches lower or 6 inches to either side, that wouldn't make him a worse manager, it'd just make him a manager with less achievements. Ancelotti's record in Europe is very good, no doubt, but his League record would greatly concern me if he took over United, that is a much better test of a manager's ability, and success in the League is much more likely to be replicated in the future than success in cup competitions.
My choice would be Mourinho, and it has been for several years now. His European record is just as good, if not better than Ancelloti's, and his League record is exceptional. There are a lot of things he does that I don't agree with, particularly when it comes to Barcelona, but I can overlook that. He's certainly no angel, but that's not a requirement for the United job. While Ferguson doesn't attack his opponents physically, if he was managing another club I don't think many people here would think much more of him than they think of Mourinho. Second choice would be Guardiola.
He received overwhelming support yesterday from the bernabeu crowd.
That's all very well if we find the next Paisley, what happens if we end up with the next Souness? Milan were dominant in Italy during the Saachi-Capello era, what happened after that?
One could argue about Guardiola's CL win...
This guy was probably even more incompetent than that linesman.
I forgot about Germany when I posted that, but still Spain & Germany have by far the best teams right now. Also I was talking about Japan in 3 years time, not right now.
This man did more to win the PL for Chelsea that season:
He's already been there and done it with empty chequebooks, I'm sure he wants to build his legacy and United post-Sir Alex will provide that opportunity.
Those who don't want Jose are in for a rude surprise.
Some of these referees' should really look into management.
Does he have the patience to handle youth? Because if he doesn't, I'll bet my hairy arse he's not welcome here - regardless of what he want.
Look at his signings at Madrid - Ozil, Khedira, Sahin & the likes is very similar to what Sir Alex has been doing for years.
Sir Alex is going strong. It's wrong of us fans to speculate who will succeed and when all in the name of 'what's best for the club'. More wrong of us to install a favourite and hero worship his arse.
I find Mourinho amusing because of his rants. Engaging press conferences and nothing more.
I find Mourinho amusing because of his rants. Engaging press conferences and nothing more.
We'd all love Sir Alex to continue for another decade or two, but we must be realistic, he's 70, how long do you think he'll stay?
I would love to be saying Mourinho is too old to succeed Sir Alex if the great man gives us that long.
There are no guarantees Cal, you know that. Even if Mourinho came in, there would be no guarantee he would be successful. I personally think there is more risk attached to a new manager coming in and changing all the infrastructure, than there would be someone who would simply continue a proven winning formula already in place.
Bit unfair to single out Souness, without pointing out the massive success they enjoyed from Shankley's foundations. We have already had 20 years of success using this formula of Fergie's, with him upstairs to guide the new man, why should we not be able to continue in a similar vein.
It is a massive risk to have someone come in and change everything to suit their needs, because if it does not work out, everything has been ruined for nothing.
It makes more sense to try continuing the same system and then if it doesn't work out we can still go the Mourinho or Benitiez route. The thing to consider is it will not be an option done the other way round.
We owe it to Fergie to at least initially attempt to continue his work and utilise the legacy he will leave us, before completely and forever changing everything he has put in place.
There are no guarantees, but one could maximise one's chances. There's no guarantee that if you sign Ronaldo, he'd score more goals than Heskey, but any club in their right mind will believe signing Ronaldo gives them a better chance.
There is no guarantee that Mourinho will be a better replacement for Sir Alex than appointing Jamie Redknapp, but most will agree that Jose represents that much much safer bet.
Sir Alex has said time and again he'll not be moving "upstairs" when he decides to retire, and it'll merely cast a huge shadow over whoever takes over. One bad patch and you'd have the whole media going on and on about how he should take over.
Also, you're assuming that Jose is going to come in to change everything, but all indications (by his changing jobs quite often) is that he's very adaptable to the circumstances at each club. Surely as one of the best managers in the world, he can see that Sir Alex's approach is very successful and only needs tinkering from him rather than wholesale changes.